TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

unenforceable yet many do still get taken to court :confused:

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

And what of the "vulnerable men" ?

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

I’d think twice about taking anything Lisa Nandy says too seriously. She did a politics degree, went straight from uni to work as a researcher for an MP and then became one herself. She has no experience of anything outside of the Labour Party bubble and has a track record of making hare-brained statements based on whatever activist nonsense she’s been exposed to.

TVL evasion is a criminal offence, it is enforceable, and is enforced against around 1,000 people every week.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Men tend not to be targeted by the cowardly "enforcement" officers in the same way women are. Most "enforcement " officers are men . It has been seen on a few videos. The only way to deal with them is to say "no thank you " and close the door

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Only those that speak to the guys at the door . I do not watch live TV or use Iplayer but I will not speak to them. Most court cases are heard without the defendant and often you get no chance to defend yourself. The letters they send and everything is aimed to scare and intimidate you and only in the small print does it offer a guide as to why you would not need one

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

How can they be "targeted"? Do homes have a sign saying "I don't pay for a TV licence and no women live here?

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Women aren't specifically targeted as such as each morning TVL Inspectors are given a list of properties to visit, regardless of who lives there.

However, because women are most likely to be at home (child care, most lone parents are women etc) when they call, it is the case that women are more likely to be caught and prosecuted.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

The question of fairness is a reasonable one but it is also not the same question as whether the TV licence is legally enforceable - it is, and people thinking it isn’t is partly why so many people end up in court.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

It isn't efficient to enforce it en-mass and more and more people are trying to get away with not paying.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Link
In how many cases is there a man also present? Only the person responsible for getting a TV Licence is prosecuted. If it's the woman's household, then they are responsible for that.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

In your experience, do couples tend to have the mortgage or tenancy agreement in just the man’s name, just the woman’s name, or jointly?

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

TVL evasion is not a criminal offence, (Not paying tyhe fine is.)

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Remember that they have to prove that you are watching live broadcast TV and the ONLY way they can is to gain access to your property and see the equipment ACTUALLY doing it.

Simples: Don't open the door, they have no statuary right of access.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

They still have the option of paying.
I should imagine that they can be jointly liable, although only one name can go on the licence.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

you can treat people differently when you see who answers. You just put your oar in to stir crap or are you actually that naive ? Linking to TVL just lol

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

So are they simply going away if a man answers? Yes or No?
How are they being "targeted"? If there is also a man there, then aren't they jointly liable, just as in a shared property with a joint tenancy. Or is it in that situation they pay and avoid proceedings.
Are women-only households more likely not to pay? If so, then it can be no surprise if more women than men are pursued.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Again I ask you about your naivety?

Anyway I will take the anecdotal evidence from people like Black Belt Barrister and ChilliJonCarne on youtube rather than discuss this matter with you any further. My view will not change and neither will yours so what is the point?

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

What about the little things called FACTS.

Still zero evidence of "targeting".
If a disproportionate number of women-only households, don't pay, get caught, and continue not to pay, then it is common sense that more women than men will be prosecuted. It's 74%/26% split, so not overwhelmingly disproportionate.
How would a household tax system change anything? Perhaps the German system of being per household regardless of owning equipment or viewing might be simpler. The issue of non-payment would still be there, so doesn't solve anything.


Link

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Maybe a tax on Sky/VM/Netflix etc. True it might come back to the customer, but those with the ability to pay for these extras. A basic tv service guarantee for all.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

No, that’s simply mad. Voluntary subscriptions will ensure that only those who want to watch or listen to the BBC have to pay.

Why should people who don’t watch the BBC have to pay?

As the commercial channels receive most of their funding from advertisements and subscriptions, it is unfair to expect the viewers that tune into those channels to pay for a TV licence.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

The TV tax is antiquated and should have gone the way of the Dodo years ago. It's simple to make any service subscription. So just make the BBC subscription and then those that use their service pay for the service.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

People want the BBC, but don't want to pay. They want new programming, they want radio, tv and website etc, without ads. What's your solution?

---------- Post added at 20:08 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

Its a public service broadcaster. It not just tv, its radio , website etc. People may say they don't use it, but they do. It's an essential public service, not pay tv.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Linking me or quoting the BBC is not gonna wash. It is not like they lie. Plus Capita are also untrustworthy. BBC and fact I am actually laughing at you and you have now answered my naivety question . Will be no more replies :-)

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:13 ----------

Advertise job done

Not gonna be forced to pay for the BBC after all their hiding of Peodos and the like over the years . The institution needs to go

Essential?? no it is not

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Grief counselling

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I can honestly say I have NOT used any BBC TV radio or etc forr many years. I have no need for it. I've even had a vist from a TVL enforce, gladly allowed him in for him to admit I didn't need to pay.

It should be dispensed with and made a subscription servie.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Given your next sentence, you should probably worry more about your naivety. :erm:

---------- Post added at 22:51 ---------- Previous post was at 22:49 ----------

I think you mean "some people want the BBC". ;)
I really dont care that much, I rarely watch it - in 2025 the only thing I have watched on it is Football.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

How about a tax on anything from a supermarket that isn’t the bargain own brand? If you want Heinz, Kellogg’s, McCain etc,(you get the point)……… tax them more.

True it might come back to the customer, but if they have the ability to pay for these better brands. A basic food quality for all.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I dont use it, why should i have to pay for it.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Yes but they back it up with evidence from real cases. Have a look. Would much rather take anecdotal evidence than anything the BBC says. Black Belt Barrister is a proper Barrister so knows the law .

There are hordes and hordes of accounts that back up the anecdotal evidence and on the other side the BBC and Capita. The naivety stems from him quoting the BBC

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

The BBC isn't going to go subscription, and I don't think it will have adverts. It's too important a national institution for it to go away and leave us only with American venture capitalists controlling our news, radio and being responsible for discovering and promoting British artists.

We might have to look at a tax on the streamers. The BBC has helped them when it comes to production in this country. One of the reasons so much stuff is filmed in Britain, along with tax breaks, is that generations of on-screen and off-screen talent have been brought up via the BBC and Channel 4. Black Mirror is a big hit for Netflix but it was C4 who took the risk on it and the BBC that gave Charlie Brooker his break into television. Lots of British writers, directors and performers in Hollywood were helped to get where they are via theatre and our television, which we've helped pay for.

We need to protect our national interest here. We cannot keep giving it up so American Silicon Valley investors can make more and more money from us only to avoid paying us any taxes anyway. The BBC has to remain British, publically owned and do it's job promoting British arts.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Same old discussion.Nothing changes.

However as an educator I do want the younger generation under 16 to be protected from those that will always be ready to prey on them. So let's keep the BBC and all the protections from every public broadcaster.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Well next March I'm seriously thinking about dropping the VM TV package..


I have enough DVDs, Blu-Rays & 4K to last me many many years, plus Amazon Prime and NetFlix.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I ditched VM after an absurdly expensive renewal offer and went with Hyperoptic for £21 a month for two years. I was going to supplement that with Sky Steam but actually am just going with Now TV that I can turn off and on when needed.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

That’s just your view. A growing number of people are ditching the TV licence because they are objecting to paying for a service they don’t use.

There are those who are starry eyed about the Beeb, simply because it's been there since TV in this country started. The reason you don’t want to see payments by voluntary subscription is that you know very well that many would choose not to pay it.

The point you raise about private ownership is easily negated by keeping the BBC as a public body, but ensuring that it operates within the money it earns from subscriptions and from making its programmes available to other providers after one year or two of broadcast. That way it will keep to the standards set by the government because it is not a private company.

Itis inherently unfair to expect people to pay compulsorily for an entertainment and news service they don’t want.

Their public service remit could be preserved by government funding for programmes they want broadcast which otherwise would not be commercially viable. That could be available also to the other ‘designated public service’ broadcasters and funded by taxation - a more sensible use of public money.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

BBC protecting the young? did you really just say that or have I missed something

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Are you sure? It's an offence to install tv receiving equipment to watch TV without a licence.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Why doesn't installing receiving equipment come with a warning :confused:

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I remember that when I bought one in Argos they wanted my address to pass it on to tv licensing, guess buying on line stops the need.

---------- Post added at 20:20 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

Or they could survive on advertising ,guess the model might work . On Itv channels 4 and 5 etc it seems to work

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

What did you buy? And could you have refused giving your details? It could have been a gift :confused:

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

There must have been 156 different versions of this thread whilst I've been on CF !

The BBC is continuing and needed. Even the last inept Govt agreed on that. Just a matter of how to fund it. The licence fee might be not be the fairest way any longer.

Advertising and subscription are non starters, it would lose all the things that make it essential and unique as a public service broadcaster ( and take it downmarket like the hundreds of other channels repeating crap and producing nothing new/unique). Making programmes that only attract advertisers is a downward spiral.

We'll pay one way or another just like we do for everything else. Some might pay more, others less , if that's done fairly then its an improvement on the licence fee. General taxation, and/or taxing the extra streaming services. You don't get something for nothing.

(And those that say they never use any BBC services:- tv channels, national radio, local radio, news, weather, apps, iplayer , website - I don't believe you !)

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

The BBC does a marvelous job of protecting children from those who wish to pray on them. Jimmy Saville et al.

---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

No,you don't need a license for any equipment or installing it.

I have a 32" TV as a monitor, I don't watch TV on it.

Re: TV Licence Unenforceable
 

Rubbish

You can install TV equipment to watch on demand through a service just not iplayer and you can not watch live tv


Now here is another crux . You can have sky and never watch or record live TV only ever on demand but if you are silly enough to let the Capita "Enforcement" officers in they will want to access your TV and the very fact your Sky puck or whatever can receive Live TV they assume you actually watch it and will prosecute you . Just having it does not mean you watch. Any PC Laptop Tablet or phone can access live tv but does it mean it use it too? It is a joke. They never getting in my house without a warrant a police officer and a signed document from a judge . An ink signature too

I wonder if those are the ones they can PROVE have a TV on........

They drive around in vans looking for certain freqs to be emitted... For instance if someone had a CRT set on,you can check for 550am and if you heard a certain tone,etc on that frequency,than a CRT was most likely on in that house....

Im not sure about CRT monitors,I think the 550 thing only applies to reg TV sets where the tubes gives off a certain freq when its on......

Im amazed after all these years they are still trying to collect a licence fee....... Why not just put more spam ads on and call it a day? (Im sure there are alot already)

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I doubt there are any CRT sets in use for TV in the UK. The license fee funds the BBC, its not allowed to run ads.

You guys are lucky if there are no ads...... I wonder if thats why they are so persistant about the fee?

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I didn't say you did. I said to watch, I didn't think I'd need to clarify what was being watched on such a forum considering its been done to death.

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 ----------

It's not rubbish in the slightest. It's I just didn't clarify on such a forum that I meant 'live' tv considering its been done to death already.

You'll find it's a breach of contract to have Sky TV with no TV licence.

The reply was to someone saying TV licence evasion isn't a criminal offence, which I disagree with.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

There is no offence of installing TV equipment no matter what its used for. The offence is not having a license if you wiish to watch live TV.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Unlike the business of using TV receiving equipment without a licence, which as we know is a criminal matter, breach of contract is a civil issue between Sky and the customer, and one that is vanishingly unlikely to be discovered, much less acted on.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Yes there is.

"363Licence required for use of TV receiver

(1)A television receiver must not be installed or used unless the installation and use of the receiver is authorised by a licence under this Part.

(2)A person who installs or uses a television receiver in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

(3)A person with a television receiver in his possession or under his control who—

(a)intends to install or use it in contravention of subsection (1), or

(b)knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing, that another person intends to install or use it in contravention of that subsection,

is guilty of an offence."

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/part/4

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

But some people don't know that as can be seen on this post and was the point of my post, yet everyone jumped on me.

That wasn't my point. I was simply stating you would be in breach of contract for having Sky TV as per the example.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Because it is not a criminal offense to breach a contract with Sky so my post about sky and the TVL is correct.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I never said your post was incorrect nor did I say it was a criminal offence to breach a contract. I was simply adding to your post about it breaching the contract.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Good grief.

From the TVL site ;

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-...penalties-top5

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Ok some one explain why this is a thing. I have to have a licence because i like to watch live Rugby league on Sky sports. The BBC has had no involvement in the production or broadcasting of that content and yet the BBC are earning money from it via the TV tax, SO WHY

The BBC is just a leach and now some want the streaming services to pay a tax to the BBC so they can continue to leach off even more providers.


https://youtu.be/fQmSSbBIWes?t=540 is an interesting section to listen too from the Black Belt Lawyer.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Because it's a government system to promote broadcasting they prefer. There is no logic to it but that.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

It's a public service broadcaster. The same reason you pay taxes for all public services even though you might not personally use them all. Others subsidise you for the ones you use, and they don’t.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

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What can I do without a TV Licence?
Your TV Licence lets you enjoy a huge range of TV. It covers you for all TV channels, pay TV services like Sky, and live TV on streaming services like Amazon Prime Video, Youtube, Netflix and Freely. As well as everything on BBC iPlayer. On any device.

What can I watch without a TV Licence?
If you don't have a TV Licence, you can legally watch:

Catch up programmes on services other than BBC iPlayer, such as ITVX, All4 and My5
On demand films or TV shows that you watch, rent or buy online from providers like Netflix, Amazon Prime, Sky, EE TV, Sky, Apple TV+, Disney+ or Now
S4C programmes on demand
DVDs or Blu-rays
YouTube streamers' videos or clips live or recorded
If you do have a TV Licence you can watch all of the above, as well as:

Live TV on all free channels, including BBC One, ITV2 and Sky News
Live TV on any channels included in a package you pay for, like Virgin, EE TV or Sky
Everything on BBC iPlayer, including award-winning British TV dramas and thousands of other boxsets exclusive to BBC iPlayer
Live sporting events, like the Rugby World Cup, UEFA Euros and the Olympics
Other memorable live events, like the King's speech, Royal weddings, Glastonbury and the Eurovision Song Contest
Live streams of programmes, news or sport on services like ITVX, Sky, YouTube or Netflix
With a TV Licence, you can watch all of the above on any device.


Buy a TV Licence


What channels can I watch without a TV Licence?
You can watch on demand programmes on all catch up services excluding BBC iPlayer, like ITVX and All 4, without a TV Licence. You need a TV Licence to watch or stream live TV on any streaming platform, channel or device.


Can I watch BBC catch up without a TV Licence?
No, you cannot watch any catch up programmes on BBC iPlayer without a TV Licence. You can watch BBC programmes that are available to stream on other platforms, like Netflix.


Can I watch ITV without a TV Licence?
No, you cannot watch any live TV channels without a TV Licence, including ITV. You can watch on demand programmes on ITVX without a TV Licence.


Can I listen to BBC radio without a TV Licence?
Yes, you can listen to BBC radio without a TV Licence.


Can I listen to BBC Sounds without a TV Licence?
Yes, you can listen to and download audio programmes from BBC Sounds without a TV Licence.


Can I watch BBC on YouTube without a TV Licence?
Yes, you can watch clips and short videos on BBC's YouTube channel without a TV Licence. However, you need a TV Licence to stream any live TV, sports or news programmes on YouTube.


Can I watch and read BBC news online without a TV Licence?
You don't need a TV Licence to read anything or watch news clips online on the BBC website. However, if you want to stream live news via the BBC news website, you do need a TV Licence.

You can read BBC news online on the BBC news app or website without a TV Licence.


Do I need a TV Licence if I don't watch the BBC?
A TV Licence doesn't exclusively cover the BBC. You need a TV Licence to watch all live TV channels. Therefore, if you don't watch the BBC but you do watch any other live TV channel on any pay TV or streaming service, you must be covered by a TV Licence.



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Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

The BBC is not needed by everybody, that is the point. You may need it, and you can pay for it but leave those who don’t watch it out of the bubble.

I agree that advertising is not the appropriate option for BBC TV but a voluntary subscription is perfectly acceptable. It would ensure that the Beeb paid more attention to what people actually want from them, such as less wokery.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

It’s not an essential service like education or defence, Mr K, so that is not a strong argument at all.

ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 are also public service broadcasters, but we don’t even pay for them.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

News, weather, local radio are essential in times of emergency. Commercial channels won't provide anything that doesnt make a profit. They also won't make any high quality niche programmes, or take risks with new content, for the same reason.

100s channels of the same repeated crap, or a few channels of quality programming no one else will do. Be careful what you wish for.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

But then also from the TVL Site

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-...t-a-tv-licence

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

And who made Dad's Army, 'Allo 'Allo? Who took the risk for controversial subjects for comedy, commercial channels wouldn't risk it.

A large number of channels are repeating bbc output and making nothing themselves.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

You’re not listening. Such broadcasts can be paid for out of taxation. That is a good example of a public sector broadcast. This can be achieved on any of our five main channels (and their associated streamers) to continue to qualify for their privileged placement on EPGs and TV app menus.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

It can be paid out of the general tax take, but the reason it is not done that way is because it would create a direct financial link between HM Treasury and the state broadcaster. That’s politically unacceptable, because most of our politicians understand that the reputation of public service broadcasting in this country hangs on its independence from government as well as its quality.

We are never, ever going to see public service broadcasting become a line item on the chancellor’s spreadsheet. Whether it be a future funding model that goes entirely to the BBC or one in which various PSBs apply for grants to fulfil public service obligations, there must be, and will be, a firewall between broadcasters and government.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Normally yes, but is anyone actually buying the idea that the BBC is independent any more?

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

:confused:

Are you seriously suggesting the BBC is taking orders from government?

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Well I believe the BBC takes orders from the US state department, but that's neither here nor there.

I don't believe the BBC has been that independent since the David Kelly incident.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Are you saying they don't :shocked:

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I’m asking for the person making the allegation to offer some evidence. If you believe it too, perhaps you could say why?

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

I'll,throw that question back at you :)

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Nope, that’s not how it works. You don’t make a claim then ask someone to prove the negative. You believe something, onus is on you to prove it. If you can’t offer reasons for what you believe, I call BS. Simples. :tu:

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

If that’s true, the power to commission public services broadcasting in line with government criteria could be allocated to a quango or some other independent body of the government’s choosing.

The budget could come from a broadcasting levy as an example.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

I agree, Chris. But I think it is the case that there is a majority of liberal minded reporters who skew the news to suit their own agenda. The obsession with the climate agenda is just one example of that. The failure of Jeremy Bowen to either check out his report that Israel destroyed that hospital in his infamous report and not to caution that this information came from Hamas sources is another.

I used to admire the BBC a couple of decades ago, but I take everything with a pinch of salt now. It has lost its raison d’être.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Well done on confirmation of these researchers findings…

https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox...ut-its-role-uk

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

‘Though the BBC is slightly less trusted by people who identify with the political right…’

As Insaid, they haven’t got the balance right.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

"the balance right" being more in agreement and supporting your views, I suppose?

The words after your quote then contradict your point

From the linked article above

Anyhoo, most people seem to think the BBC has "the balance" right…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1745956752

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ht?period=5yrs

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Don't see a claim , but perhaps my grasp of English is equal to that of bbc reporters. Today one said that a street was submerged. Pictures showed a road that a toddler could splash in :p:

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Here, for the visually impaired:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1746022088

I get that you don’t want to back up your bog-standard opinions with anything so trivial as facts, and that’s your right. Just don’t expect to be taken seriously on a discussion forum :shrug:

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

Sorry don't see it :erm: it was a question not a statement , but you read as you choose , just please don't tell what I was saying.


For the record here is my opinion ( for the record it's an opinion not anything else) left leaning - BBC , CNN , right leaning GB news . FOX . down the middle Sky news itv news.

Re: TV Licence “Unenforceable”?
 

The shocked face clearly show you find it mad that Chris does not which clearly means you do so not a question at all