Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...hop-canterbury

:shocked:

His position was untenable since the report came out but this is a shocking fall from grace. I am not especially up with the Anglican community but he seemed rather respected outside of it at least.

Also, our atheist Prime Minister now has to 'advise', i.e pick, the next archbishop. I know that a committee decides it and the PM just passes that advice on but interesting. Have we had a PM who wasn't a member of the Church of England do this before? Sunak would have counted but didn't have the chance.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

The police should be involved in this

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Disraeli - the Archbishop was Archibald Campbell.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

He was born Jewish but didn't he convert?

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Yes, he did.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Fallen on his crozier eh. :D

Realistically he didn't have an alternative.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

An assumption cost his job? Scary. Very complacent.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

the most recent ones are:



Welby 2013 (Cameron)

Williams 2002 (Blair)

Carey 1991 (Major)

Runcie 1980 (Thatcher)


I'm not sure Major was particularly religious, maybe not as much as Starmer, but probably one of those who might go to church at Christmas and/or say they're Christian on a form or something but not particularly be practising otherwise.


Thatcher was brought up Methodist, so Christian but not within the CoE.


Blair was technically CoE when in office but converted to Catholicism after.


Cameron is practising CoE (As is May, who was the daughter of a clergyman - Johnson is Catholic now, and has flipped mainly for vanity reasons I think. Truss like Major is technically CoE but not practising, and Sunak is Hindu, though none of them got the chance.)


Hopefully whoever gets the job next won't feel so inclined to instil a culture which covers up child sex offenders.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

It’s hard to sum up what I think of this. I’m Baptist, which means I’m averse to high authority in the church. We don’t have bishops running dioceses; we don’t even have the Scottish version of that (a presbytery, which is a committee made up of a mix of ordained ministers and laypeople running each region). All Baptist unions around the world are free associations designed to facilitate co-operation rather than denominational HQs. So I’m tempted to tut and shake my head and simply say this is what happens when you allow the idea to take root that one, or a few, powerful people, divinely appointed, act on divine authority. It makes it very much harder to believe they’re capable of doing anything wrong.

But I am also acutely aware that this sort of thing, and worse, can and does happen in non-denominational churches as well. It can happen anywhere a powerful, charismatic leader becomes too big to fail and too powerful to resist. It isn’t a uniquely Christian problem, it is a human failing. What makes me mad is that the church is supposed to be the exemplar of a different way of living. And even in the midst of that, Justin could have demonstrated that different way by repenting and acknowledging his failing without reservation some considerable time ago, which may have occasioned his resignation but on the other hand in the context of repentance and restitution might not have. We will never know. But instead he made the same age-old mistake of worrying about the church’s reputation, as if the church, and Christ who is its head, hasn’t weathered plenty over the past 2 millennia without the Archbishop of Canterbury’s input.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

History suggests that they isn't much chance of that.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

not going to disagree


The replacement will come from the existing Bishops and the chain of accountability is similar. And there are probably many who have already done similar.


It needs serious top down leadership...

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

When looking at these historical cases within institutions I think it's worth remembering it was, in part, taking place at a time when wider society was also not taking these kinds of accusations that seriously either. It didn't happen in a vacuum. Think how often euphemisms like 'dirty old man' were thrown around as an almost comical description of an eccentric old man as opposed to people calling them a sex pest or offender.

When people talk of the BBC and Saville, they failed massively there, but the press never really chased up accusations or rumours they had heard of him. A lot of his concerning behaviour was taking place in public but was chalked up to his weird character. Few people knew the reality of what he was doing but few wanted to confront it or explore it further in the first place. Teenagers hanging around the dressing room of pop stars was seen as normal rather than a safeguarding issue.

That's all to say that although cover-ups will still happen I think it's less likely we see such institutional blindness on the same scale in the future as happened in the past. Wider society is more aware of it now. If bits of information came out the press and police are more likely to follow up on it as well.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

I would love to think you are correct, something tells me it will still happen

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

I am curious how the Baptist church members view the head of the Protestant church being the (self appointed) highest authority in terms of leadership, titled as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. I am guessing they would not recognise his authority? Serious question ...
.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

I thought the King was ultimately the head of the Anglican Church?

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Isn't it similar to how the King is the head of the UK but everyone understands the power and administrative duty resides in No 10?

Although I am not sure how that works for Anglicans outside of the UK

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Charlie is the ‘titular’ head of the Church of England. He is officially the Supreme Governor, but that’s largely a formal position without executive authority. He does have the right to appoint a new ABC under a 16th century act of parliament but in practice that’s just another one of his powers exercised for him by the government and the government in turn has an appointments commission - although in practice that commission is operated by senior clerics from the church.

The commission votes on a nominee and provided that individual has two-thirds of the commission on board the individual is recommended to the PM. Interestingly, had Rishi been the PM, despite being a Hindu he seemingly would have been able to then approach the candidate and ask them if they want the job, whereas had he been a Catholic or a Jew he would not.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

My prayer is that they elect someone who isn't some liberal thinking, wooly minded man who ignores scripture for some social agenda. Reformed and evangelical is the way to go, especially to keep the African and Asian branches as well as the more conservative "locals" onboard.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Depends what you mean by ‘Reformed’. If you’re hankering after a capital R Calvinist, no chance (and a good thing too). Five-points Calvinism is absurd, and for all its faults the Church of England has thankfully never had much truck with it.

As for evangelical - well, possibly, but as Welby was an evangelical the liberals may feel it’s there turn again.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Define "liberal thinking"? From what I know of scripture, Jesus was a hell of a liberal and the opposite of a conservative

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

I’m fairly certain he means theologically liberal, not socially liberal. Liberal theology is things like denying miracles, late-dating prophecies, reinterpreting classical moral theology in modern society, etc. etc. Especially popular from the late 19th century onwards. Former ABC Rowan Williams is a bit of a beardy liberal theologian.

Though I’d be careful about trying to pin modern political terms like ‘liberal’ or ‘conservative’ on Jesus - not least because he walked the earth in an utterly different time where the societal structures within which we express our liberalism or conservatism simply didn’t exist. In any case, he’s not so easily defined.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

I don’t think either of those terms can be transposed to society two thousand years ago.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Thank you for the realignment of the context, I appreciate it. However, I would say that you can take away the modern political terms and still arrive at the objective conclusion that Jesus, as documented in scripture, was more more interested in helping people that today's political conservatives would object to.

The reason why this is relevant is that theology and its application to today's Church can never be divorced from the role of the Church wishes to play in society. A theological vacuum is meaningless in this sense.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

May be because the public have given up walking a fake life of a nun or cardinal.

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

Or...

They don't identify with religion, so aren't bothered...


https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/god-heave...-other-nations

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

I'm one of those that has no interest in following a religion, those that do have religious beliefs are free to have them . . . as long as they don't try to convert me ;)

The wife also has no interest in religion, yet like many others will religiously (sic) spend stupid money on Easter eggs, quite happily blow the bank balance on Christmas cards/presents for people (many she only sees a couple of times a year), and goes every year to take part in the 'Christingle' thing at a nearby church.

Not sure if she just follows the crowd (sheep like) or is hedging her bets just in case :D

Re: Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby resigns over Church abuse scandal
 

The Church of England (or any church for that matter) is a huge irrelevance to life on Earth. All this was easily proved by Welby's performance, underlined by the scandals that have surfaced in recent years.

All the faiths purport to worship the same god - yet they are or recently have been at each other's throats.

Maybe there was a god who designed & implemented everything, complete with an evolution mode - but that god is long dead based on the lack of evidence for there being an active god.

So, we have these massive institutions, like the CoE and the Catholic Church, which, to my mind are massive wealth-amassing enterprises that benefit nobody to any serious extent.

But Easter & Chrimbo are now family events for most people, only a few treat them as religiously significant in the church sense.

Putting the fear of god into people was an old political trick to bring the tribes into line (I'm severely glossing here) - but Genesis is a substantially political document. I've got the Interpreter's One Volume Commentary on the Bible - a 1000 page learned work to guide me in my analysis and thoughts.

The churches have built on the 'fear of god' notion, wrapping it in all sorts of qualification such as 'god's wisdom', 'god's mercy', 'god's son', non of which can be evidenced.

And, in the UK, to make matters worse, we have had Welby and Charlie Farley, the adulterer who formally heads the CoE. I do hope that William hasn't fallen for this nonsense.