Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I've been reading a number of articles that state the government will start to pay in vouchers instead of cash.

Is it me or haven't they quite thought this through, for example I use part of my pip for taxi transport so vouchers will be useless.

What does everyone else think?

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I think they need to go away and look up ‘personal’ and ‘independence’ in a dictionary before trying to control how you spend your personal independence payment.

If they think the system is being abused then they should be tackling the abusers, not making life difficult for the rest of you.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

This is the problem the abusers make it difficult for us all.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

If any vouchers are to be of any use, then anybody who gets them as payment, has to be able to redeem the cash value of them. That would mean they are just the same as cash.


While for some people the money they get can be relatively high(equivalent to salary of £30+K), there are those that need that money, but not for general living expenses.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

The Labour Party would have a massive rebellion if they tried to push this though. I suspect it's a hold over from the previous parliament that will be dropped.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Ah well we're all in it togeather, it's no good having buyers remorse because it's your turn to benefit[or not] from labour policies, "hard choices have to be made"

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

The policy suggestion predates Labour, it's just if they continue with it. It would be crazy for them to do so.

But just to remind OP there has been an election since it was suggested so it isn't 100% going to happen.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

My neighbour was told he qualified for PIP ,he was due to get his first payement but instead got a letter stating he didn't qualify.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

It was simply one of several suggestions by the DWP back in May.
Like many crazy ideas, its not very likely to ever see the light of day.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I'm glad Scotland now control our PIP payments. Rebranded to ADP(Adult Disability Payment) less hassle overall, though with the same points etc but less in person meeting etc.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

PIP pays nowhere near £576 a week.

---------- Post added at 03:08 ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 ----------

Indeed, but it's worth noting that for PIP the amount of fraud for live cases is so small that it registers as nil in their statistics.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

PIP appears to be a maximum of £184.30 per week (if you get both parts, otherwise £108.55 per week).

Thats just over 9.5K, no idea where 30K+ comes from. https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-much-youll-get

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

With UC, PIP, rent paid, and council tax reduction it can all add up to an equivalent of a £30+K salary. That's before considering rents in London.

There are websites where you can enter an annual salary, and it will tell you the take home pay. You can take the total amount received in benefits and work out the salary it would need to get that amount. I didn't pluck the £30+K figure out of thin air.

To say there isn't massive fraud on the mental health side of things is quite delusional. It's NOT about whether you have X, Y, or, Z, but how much that impacts your life AFTER treatment. Eg Somebody SUCCESSFULLY claimed they should be allowed to spend 26 weeks of the year at a 2nd home in Spain, because of the sunshine. Not based upon a media report, but an actual Upper Tribunal decision that is publicly available.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

UC pays the rent. It's deducted of what you receive. I'm sure there is a limit to what they will pay also. It's not as kushy as some people think.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

You get the money to pay the rent, so it's not just the basic amount. The point remains that the equivalent salary required would be in excess of £30K, nearer £40K with London rents. As I said, I haven't plucked the figure out of thin air. It is an actual calculation.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Provide links, then, rather than just statements, please, or a screen print of the £30k calculations…

(Such as "an actual Upper Tribunal decision that is publicly available.")

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

The idea has been around since Labour was last in power. Not "vouchers" per se, but a list of items or modifications you could claim from a central supplier. From walking sticks or wheelchairs, to lower kitchen units or stairlifts, or even hoists to shower rooms.

All used to come under "Disabled Facilities Grants" and only available until the annual budget for an area was used up. And that moment could arrive within days of the financial year starting if a few house extensions were planned.

Several think-tanks put forward plans to push large numbers of disabled people into work, thus reducing the budget to their "customers" instead of trimming their own fat of excess office staff. The advent of Work From Home has seen a "significant" number move into work, a lot of which was "welcomed" by former claimants. (according to the DWP).

The use of external companies to assess claimants for Personal Independence Payments seems to have been done to deny claimants what they should have been entitled to. Our own twins were assessed as not qualifying for any help at all, but Tribunals quashed those decisions and the DWP was obliged to award PIP.

The newest idea seems to be to allow claimants to pay for items and modifications directly out of their PIP awards, so no cash would change hands. It's a bit like the Motability scheme, where people can swap their Mobility Allowance to hire a car for 3 years.

Our daughter used to get Disabled Living Allowance, a one-off access to a Disabled Facilities Grant (Open gas fire changed to a modern boiler) and Education Support Allowance. The latter was supposed to pay for up to 3 return trips a week to college, but it only covered one return taxi ride. So I drove her there instead. That was halved, then stopped altogether, with the council saying that she had to use her Mobility Payment.

The fear amongst many is that PIP will effectively cease to exist, with claimants having to live off Employment Support Allowance and other things like Housing Benefit and Poll Tax reductions. But many live with parents or partners, and if they earn anything, those Benefits would disappear. It's a bit like this latest Means Testing of Winter Fuel Allowance, with only those who didn't work enough to get a full State Pension and didn't save much for their retirement being qualified.

So PIP goes, ESA gets absorbed into Universal Credit, and the bureaucratic cycle turns vicious for disabled claimants.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Secretary of State for Work and Pensions v NJ: [2024] UKUT 194 (AAC)
UC without rent £240.55/week
PIP(standard daily living + enhanced mobility) £148.20/week
Rent assume low figure of £100/week

Gives £25,415 + council tax reduction.
Feed £30,000 salary into this website, and the take home is £25,120/year.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

You get a choice whether it's paid directly or not.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Irrelevant whether paid directly or not, it's still an "income" to be included in these figures.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

ESA is pretty much part of UC already. If you claim both, your ESA totally monthly amount is deducted off your total UC amount.

So realistic the only perk to ESA is getting it paid every two weeks rather than the once a month UC payment. You don't actually get any extra.

So using myself as an example. After rent auto deducts and the ESA amount is also deducted we are left with about £400 a month. Not enough to live off for the month realistically.

As for PIP or ADP then it's meant to go towards the extra costs involved with your disability or illness. Many in receipt of it can and do still work. Where it's part time or full time employment.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

My original point was that for some, the money handed out is more than they need, but for others not enough or just ok. There's no one size fits all payment.
If anything it's the ESA side of things that is going to disappear, as eligibility shifts to eligibility for PIP and the Severe Disability Premium has been removed from new UC claims.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Thank you - very interesting (and unusual) case (full ruling below).

https://assets.publishing.service.go...000576-ESA.pdf

I have to question the cost effectiveness of the legal fees of a Barrister and all the support work of the Government Legal Department through all the appeals, against an alleged ESA overpayment of £4,753.11…

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I had read the full ruling and couldn't quite believe it.
The issue wouldn't have been the overpayment, but principle of being allowed to stay overseas(in Spain) for 26 weeks of the year, rather than the normal limit of 4 weeks. Now imagine if that catches on. People could spend 6 months of the year abroad, because they are getting "treatment" of getting a tan.

IMO Quite staggering that she got away with it. She was getting medication for the mental health condition, so there should've been no existing impact of any sort.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

From personal experience, and that of my wife and our daughter, medication only very rarely reduce all symptoms to anywhere near zero. Full doses often have very bad side effects, so Doctors err on the side of caution, especially during the first months. And then monitoring must continue as many medications' effects reduce over time.

I worked with a woman whose daily dosage would have put me to sleep for a week.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

But in this case spending 6 months of the year in Spain, magically cures her condition. Is that going to be prescribed on the NHS? Her husband is a retired doctor.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

But we are talking solely about PIP. There are many people who only receive this because they aren't eligible for any other benefits.

---------- Post added at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 ----------

The zero level of instances of fraud recorded for PIP is as stated by the DWP under the last Government.

I don't see what the problem is with someone going to their holiday home if the sunshine is advantageous for their health.

---------- Post added at 01:23 ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 ----------

Indeed. I can't think of anybody who wouldn't give up PIP in return for their disabilities to magically be waved away.

---------- Post added at 01:28 ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 ----------

Indeed. And it's been pointed out in the consultation that the abolition of PIP could well be counter productive as some disabled people would have to give up work.

The Sunak Government launched a consultation for people to respond to their ideas (now closed). The new Starmer Government stance is that they are to look through the responses received and make any announcement in due course.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I expect PIP is like any other benefit, there are the majority who correctly get it, and a minority who abuse or scam it.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

You don't receive PIP because you're not eligible for any other benefits. There may be those with an income and/or savings which make them not eligible for any other benefits.

Difficult and a lot of effort to prove fraud. NOT ZERO cases, just a low %age. Eg 0.9% for 2023. As the number of new claims soars with non-disprovable "mental health" claims, any level of identified fraud get diluted.

They had a holiday home long beforehand(over 20 years before). They didn't go there for her "health". It was a case of being caught out and trying to come up with excuses. They stayed mainly in the summer and not in the winter months. Sun lamps are ALSO suitable. If staying in Iceland helped her condition, then they wouldn't have gone there. All contradictory to her claim.

My point remains that, could people claim holidays on the NHS as a "treatment"?
I don't think the perceived issue is with those ONLY receiving PIP alongside other earned income, such as a job. It is when combined with UC/ESA etc, that people can get large sums for doing nothing. There is no incentive to look for work. Even Labour say they are going to address that.
There seems to be a general misunderstanding of the reason for ESA and PIP. IIRC The extra money with ESA is meant to be a form of compensation for not being able to work, so that you're not on very basic benefits. IIRC the principle is that you are unable to increase your income any other way. PIP is meant to be for aids and assistance, and not for general living expenses.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

No, one doesn't receive PIP simply because they don't receive any other benefits per se, but they can do, one of the reasons is given in your example.

If any sick or disabled person receives a higher amount than the unemployed (not all do thanks to the Cameron Government) this isn't compensation for not being able to work, but to reflect the additional expenses of being disabled. This began in 1988 when the Thatcher Government scrapped the 'Additional Requirements' payments in favour of premiums targeted at certain groups.

PIP fraud is officially so low that it registers as zero in Government figures, it's one of, if not the benefit least likely to be claimed fraudulently.

There has been a large increase in young people claiming for mental health problems, that is true. The Government has for some time taken steps to tighten up what they call the 'Gateway' to benefits ie to stop fraudulent or exaggerated claims entering the system in the first place and PIP is no exception.

Cameron introduced PIP as a way to reduce the cost of DLA for adults. It was made much harder to claim by changing the criteria to qualify, scrapping one of the Care Components and requiring face to face interviews by so called health professionals. These have been widely criticised for being set up to make claimants fail, even by former members of staff of the privatised companies paid to carry out the interviews.

So, as you can see, PIP isn't easy to get either legitimately or fraudulently.

There is talk of going back to the old DLA system where it's based on what is wrong with a person and requiring a formal diagnosis as opposed to the current system based upon how it affects them.

This could address your concern that those with mental health problems are, in effect, making it up as a diagnosis would be needed by a qualified person.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

It still hasn't been decided. You would think so many worried people including myself would be a top priority for the Government.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

they have different priorities to the last government.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Maybe so but it's still ongoing.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

What is still being decided? If it happened and that's a big if it would be a good few years before they could do anything.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

The thing is you're just not important to them,like older people you'll just have to be happy with the crumbs from under the top table ,sadly that is life in this new sunlit utopia that labour are building.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Nothing is happening with it because it's not in motion. Unless they proactively say they're doing it you can assume they're not.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

The last official update was that they were going through the responses to the consultation set up by the Sunak Government with regards to this.

No news is good news.

It is known that Labour are to continue with the Tory intention to make financial organisations flag up accounts of people on benefits who may have undeclared capital or income, albeit with more protection measures in place to protect the most vulnerable people in society.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Correct but governments of both persuasions and certain media outlets demonise us all as benefit scroungers who should not be awarded it.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

And some that don't claim it that should, or don't appeal a DWP decision when they should. 70% of PIP appeal tribunals decide against the DWP but a lot of people find it too much to deal with.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

It's definitely just talk.

I'm on PIP, well ADP as it's now called in Scotland. About to start looking for work again now my transplant and issues have settled down a lot. Though still get tired often and still can't really sleep. Been that way since the transplant last year. Hopefully at next review I'll hopefully get to keep it. Swapped some issues for other issues and still got my bad vision. So bad I can't drive and usually can't see the bus numbers I'm waiting for.

It took me two attempts to get PIP and then reapplied when my health worsened, and got advanced on both sections. It is a nightmare filling the forms and having the daft phone 'interview' not to mention the face to face. On my first appeal they claimed as I walked fine from the waiting room to the consult room I was fine, yes walking 15 metres in a straight corridor is easy. At the time, anything more and I was out of breath due to high blood pressure and being extra anemic due to the kidney failure.

The people doing these things have no clue what so ever and should nor be making decisions like that

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

It's just the constant worry and that you're never able to feel settled or secure. I'm taking 24 pills a day, not including b12 every 10 weeks and morphine as and when. Also 2 inhalers, St Marks Solution and Calshakes on top.

It doesn't matter how messed up I am, it's always in the back of my mind if they change it or move the goalposts.

I had a home visit for my PIP and must have had a one of the nicer ones, said I had nothing to worry about after the assessment but seems just luck of the draw just lately.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

My initial results on that person's recommendations annoyed me, only met me for ten mins. I had a member of Deaf Blind Scotland with me that day and they also filled in the form for me. So he suggested going straight to tribunal. I then got a call offering me full PIP. Clearly didn't want it going to the courts.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Disability Rights lawyers are actively working on fighting this. Last time I spoke to them they were examining exchanges in Parliament from the early 1970's when the first incarnation of PIP was introduced for those of working age (Mobility/Attendance Allowance).

This exchange points out why cash payments were the best solution out of all forms of help that were considered when it was being decided that financial help for disabled people should start to be made.

Invalid carriages would only be supplied voluntarily in lieu of Mobility Allowance and even this scheme was eventually abolished in favour of the current Motability scheme.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I remember those tiny death traps. A local used to have his break down and have to flag someone down to go home and call for a taxi and a recovery vehicle (long before mobile phones were a thing).

The mindset then, and in some ways still today, was "If you are disabled you use a wheelchair". Hence aids and adaptations were mainly walking sticks, zimmer frames, ramps, stairlifts and lowered kitchen surfaces. Even the international symbol for "disabled" is a person in a wheelchair.

Even the top criteria for a Blue Badge, was, until someone realised what they were doing was very biased were:

you cannot walk at all
you cannot walk without help from someone else or using mobility aids
you find walking very difficult due to pain, breathlessness or the time it takes
walking is dangerous to your health and safety
you have a life limiting illness, which means you cannot walk or find walking very difficult and have a SR1 form

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I'm glad they were scrapped, I have a few 250cc Villiers engines out of the earlier model. They have proved very useful for parts for my Bond Minicars.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Yes, there are still a lot of people who unlawfully question a person's disability because it is either invisible or because they can't see something that they're using like a stick, wheelchair etc to confirm matters (in they're eyes).

If someone states that they are disabled, others are advised to accept this without question or risk falling foul of the law.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Absolute nonsense. Evidence is required.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Care to explain the above in more detail? You're basically saying that if I don't believe that you have a brain injury without producing the evidence you think that you can report me the police?

Try reporting the DWP then because they won't accept anything unless there's evidence. And as Paul says, you're talking nonsense.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Not knowing that someone is disabled is a defence for a complaint of disability discrimination. If it is known, then this defence cannot be used.

I'm not talking about benefit claims, i'm talking about everyday life eg if someone asks you to pass them something in a supermarket because they are disabled, there should be no questioning, making assumptions, stereotyping etc.

No proof is required, but someone minded to be unhelpful to the disabled should politely decline their request as opposed to making inappropriate comments like "You don't look disabled" or ask inappropriate questions relating to their disability.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

That's not even about a disability. I've passed people stuff as they are too short or old and cant reach the higher shelves.

It's just being kind and considerate. Don't need to instantly jump on disability

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Exactly. I only mentioned disability to provide an example.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

There was a period that started pre-covid where supermarkets were giving out "sunflower" lanyards to those who found social interaction difficult, sometimes due to a disability.

Unfortunately, many were not aware of what they meant, so that caused more grief for the wearers as people asked "What's that for? What does it mean? Are you disabled? What is autism?"

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

You haven't answered the first part of my post. Isn't it up to you to provide evidence regardless of your word if we ask. Without evidence it's down to courtesy or choice meaning there is no legal obligation whatever you say. So where does it state we have to accept it without question (without evidence) otherwise we're 'falling foul of the law'

I'm deaf, and if someone speaks slowly to me as if I'm dumb would that an offence? It happens quite often. But I just tell them politely. I don't think I've ever had a problem to the point where I would consider it as discrimination with how I'm treated. That would never enter my mind. Just correct and get on with life.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

It made it more confusing though as everyone was getting them, that way they could get away with not wearing masks in shops etc. It became a total joke as anyone could buy one online.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

That's fine, 99% of issues are resolved by politely letting people know the situation

It's when they fail to take heed or do things on purpose that problems arise and more formal action can be considered.

To use my example again, if you asked a fellow shopper* to tell you what a tannoy announcement was saying in a supermarket, they have no right to question your disability, ask for proof of it, make comments etc regarding your deafness. Doing so could be viewed as a hate crime or a hate incident.

*If a member of staff refused to help you, this would probably fall foul of the requirement to make adjustments under the Equality Act.

Fellow shoppers should either provide the help asked for with good grace (which I'm sure most would do) or politely refuse if they don't want to help.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Thing is Richard. You seem to be the only one thinking like that. Most people will simply just give the info or help.

Not everyone is nasty or judgemental like you seem to imply.

Same goes for staff, they are there to help. I frequently ask for help when I go to the cinema as my eyesight is bad, so when lights are down I really can't see much so need help getting to my seat.

Never had anyone tell me no or give me a funny look.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I know exactly where you are coming from. Soon as someone sees my hearing aids they start to talk louder and slower.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Absolutely, most right thinking people are only too pleased to help and, when they inadvertently get things wrong, they apologise profusely and make amends.

Legal action to resolve matters is only to be used as a last resort when all other reasonable attempts have failed or the behaviour is serious and obviously being down out of malice.

The police are currently investigating an incident where a group of people with Downs syndrome were physically attacked in Blackpool.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Again, complete nonsense, they have every right to ask you why (if they so wish). They also have every right to just say no.

---------- Post added at 01:37 ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 ----------

What has that go to do with questioning a disability ?

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

There's nothing to stop anyone asking personal questions or questioning someone's stated disability, but they run the risk of being reported for a hate crime or incident.

The Downs syndrome comment was to show that, whilst most people are kind and helpful towards disabled people, some individuals are not.

To show that

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

That is not how 99% of people would react though. It is only you that seems to want to report folk and turn everything back to discrimination.

Also committing an assault versus refusing to help someone is not the same or similar at all.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

If according to Richard you cannot question anyone if they say they are disabled, does it not mean that anyone can claim to be disabled and for instance use a disabled parking space.

Also Richard before you say they would need a blue badge there are fakes you can buy on Ebay that are a perfect fake.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Then in that case anyone can apply for a badge as the council's can't question you, they should just take your word for it.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

in the real world they would tell you to sod off

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I have also lost count the amount of times I've come out of a disabled toilet (RADAR) to be met with angry 'disabled' people. To the point I've been shouted and sworn at. Because I don't look disabled. It seems the worse people are the disabled in my opinion. So again would that be a legal issue as you say?

My automatic response which tends to rile and make things worse (hopefully) when it happens now is 'You don't look like an ignorant ......'. (That's the polite version).

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Our son was refused a RADAR key by jobsworths. I mentioned this to his Consultant, who pulled one out of a drawer for him, before phoning the jobsworths to give them merry hell.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

That's shocking that is. Sadly anyone can buy RADAR key from ebay just for £2-3 which is totally out of order and should be stopped.

My worse case and so memorable was during a show at mid interval. I was in line to use the disabled toilet and I actually got rammed from behind by a wheelchair user shouting 'Excuse me.. This is a disabled toilet". I said 'I know' and ignored the person but then got rammed again quite a lot harder. I was told I can't use the toilet and was told to use the normal toilet instead. This was in front of a lot of people as it was packed out. This is where I came out with 'You don't look like an ignorant C(word), looks are deceiving aren't they'. The look on her face is what I'll never forget, but by then I'd had enough as it was really embarrassing. I don't know why (and I regret it now) but I showed her my various 'can't wait cards' and RADAR key then told her to sod off. But it did put a right dampener on the evening sadly. But luckily nothing as bad as that has happened since.

This was before the 'not all disabilities are visible' signs came out which are good and really helpful.

Morals I learnt, treat everyone as equal. Also being disabled doesn't give you extra rights if you're an arse (or not).

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I must admit i do get those looks if i use a disabled toilet, I am recovering from Bladder cancer and when i have to go i have to go.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Can I moan about disabled parking spaces in supermarkets. I feel that the main point of the is the width, allowing wheelchairs etc to be accessible as possible. Not meant for people that have problems not associated with being able to get in and out of a car etc. ie blind .ducking down.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Yeah those blind people are scammers.You want to be more worried when they're driving, not parking.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Some people with mobility problems (for example, my mother-in-law when she was with us) need the car doors open wide to enable access and assistance getting in/out of the car.

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I suspect you have been to our local ASDA with it's newly-laid and painted car park? Instead of single lines between cars, there are those new-fangled 2 line markings.

My car, not a tractor in any sense, has the tyres on both sides touching the lines, so the distance between cars is about 18". I have to choose my spot carefully or the missus, who needs the door wide open to get in-or-out would be trapped in the car. And she doesn't qualify for a disabled parking space.

But the mother-and-child slots are huge! Can I have a father-and-child slot please?

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Same for She who must be obeyed. she has trouble in tight parking spaces.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

No never go there.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Most people tend to be kind and helpful towards disabled people, it's the ones that aren't that are the problem.

As I have already explained, most people are horrified when it's pointed out that they are being offensive. They immediately apologise and make amends.

The law is there to deal with those who carry on being offensive on purpose or who do it out of malice.

Most issues are resolved by having a word with the offenders (in fact, any resultant court case will expect the aggrieved person to have tried to sort things out informally first).

Legal action is considered as a last resort solution, so it's imperative that anyone experiencing discrimination, less favourable treatment, failure to make adjustments etc keeps records and evidence in case things cannot be resolved amicably.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

So IF I'd say I don't believe that you have a brain injury and you're just an ass. And I keep saying you're ass isn't something you can do anything about. I have no proof of your injury, just your word which doesn't mean jack sheet to me. So how does that work out in this instance??

As far as I'm aware no one goes out of their way to be unkind towards someone just because they're disabled. They're unkind because of something else.

You do have issues based around the legality of things, it's like an unhealthy obsession. Like you go looking for it and use it to your own advantage.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

As I stated most people aren't out to cause upset to anyone. They may simply not understand someone's predicament or how a certain illness affects them. Especially if it's not physical.

You can't be looking to report everyone and take legal action because someone says something unkind.there really is no reason for formal or informal action against every random person in the street. In the workplace of course it would be different.

You do seem to go looking for reasons to annoy and aggravate people.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

This has already been covered in our discussion thus far, I don't propose to repeat myself ad infinitum. Do you think our discussion is off topic?

---------- Post added at 23:24 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

You are now just being deliberately offensive, so I'm closing our discussion about this.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

In what way am I being deliberately offensive? It seems you just don't want to answer questions.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Well if you're fat, you'll get jabs and put to work. And if you have really serious mental health problems then you'd get job coaches even when you're hospitalised.

No doubt if you're bed ridden, they'll get one with wheels on so they'll be no excuse.

Sounds like no matter what disability or illness you have they're coming for us/you.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Disabled friends of our twins have been contacted by DWP with a view to getting them WFH jobs. They are in the group of ESA that doesn't require looking for work... YET!

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I've always said that will not be a burden to my wife. This kind of thing is could well be a grim reality to many.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

After watching a TV programme on the subject, the missus said she would hate me for the rest of her life if I became a burden to her and committed suicide. In the programme they interviewed several people who's partners or children committed suicide to stop being a burden. They were all of the same mindset. Suicide leaves others in despair and pain.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I can't argue with that at all. But it's something we've both discussed at great length. My wife knows and understands our situation fully. I make no bones about it as it is something that I live with every day. Those that need to know already knows such as my GP and counsellors etc.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

I feel a little compelled to expand on my post above due to the nature of the post itself. A couple of sentences doesn’t quite say much or give any kind of explanation.

As I said, I agree with Taf, but agreeing doesn’t mean I just agree, there is no one size fits all. I fully understand his point, it doesn’t mean it is right or wrong. What is right or wrong? Who decides?

Firstly if anyone is struggling is to get help by whatever means possible. I am only speaking on my own behalf here and maybe give an insight to how or why suicide is an option. But coming from someone who lives a life who prides themselves with logic and common sense I have to say when it comes to suicide there is no logic, nor common sense as it doesn’t apply. With mental health / health issues contradiction seems to be a huge part where all logic etc goes out of the window.

I feel like I live a double life. On one hand I can be happy, even though I don't experience pleasure. I can laugh at jokes, and I can say without doubt I’m a glass half full type of person. I am a total optimist and try to see the best in everything. Yet on the other hand I wake up every day knowing that I don’t want to live, and I go to bed thinking the same. To the point I do actually ‘crave’ ending my life. Anyone would say that’s extreme and I don’t expect anyone to understand it either. It is something I will have to live with and will not go away.

I said I will not be a burden to my wife. I know I already am to quite an extent. Maybe I should have expanded to say financially, but even then that’s not 100% the true either. It’s more about feeling of being more of a burden than I already am and to a point where I decide enough is enough. But again that’s not the whole reason either.

To live with suicidal ideation is also a coping mechanism. It gives control over something that is or can be too hard to understand, live with or comprehend. It also gives me choice. Therefore it can allow me to choose and push onwards knowing I do have that choice. It helps.

I does rile me when people say suicide is a selfish act. It can be, I’m not questioning everyone or their own reasons again if you feel this way seek help where you can. Why can’t it also seen as the most selfless act someone can do? Could it be selfish of those that don’t understand? Those left behind do have to pick up to pieces so to speak, and some do have to live with no understanding to why. I do feel it is a sad part of it and one that is cruel and hard for those left behind to live with. I would not wish this on anyone. I’ve chosen to speak up about it and be honest in the way I feel so there are no doubts or stones unturned even though it is hard and unpleasant in so many ways.

Sometimes you hear why didn’t so and so speak up or talk to me… If only that’s true but it isn’t. The hardest thing to do is to talk to someone. If you can then great, it can help, but to most it wouldn’t matter anyway. But more often the case is who will actually listen. Who asks how I am, who cares? It’s not like it matters anyway. If you ask and I say I’m fine when you know I’m not that tends to be acceptable and I agree it’s not easy or right but just the way things are. There are so many different factors. The fear of not being understood, or just the fear of a person to just say yeah I know what it’s like I feel like that sometimes is so way off the mark, you already know the person just can’t comprehend or help. So you end up with the fear of any answers so you will avoid going there. Or to cause upset, one way or another. Again, not that talking will change anything anyway to some. Again it's just not that straight forward.

For the benefit of doubt. I’ve had plenty of therapy and counseling. To the point where I’ve been told I do not have a mental health issue, because of everything I’ve been through, going through and will go through so what I’m ‘feeling’ is ‘normal’ and if I didn’t feel the way I do then I would have a mental health issue. = Crazy but that’s how it is. In the end I did manage to get a diagnosis but it was a hard fought battle. To the extent to how and what I feel is 'acceptable'.

I don’t expect anyone to understand fully. I just wanted to expand the subject in a way that I hope it helps a little maybe.

Blimey, we'll that's my longest post, lol. And sorry if I ranted on a bit too.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

Rachel Reeves will seek to make around £3bn of cuts to welfare over the next four years by restricting access to sickness benefits.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-conservatives

Not quite sure exactly what that means as yet. From the sounds of it more like moving the eligibility goalposts a little further maybe.

Re: Disability vouchers instead of cash
 

One will know soon enough when the budget arrives in 9 days but l concur with much of your thinking.