20mph is just the start.
 

So the "blanket" 20 mph speed limit that Welsh Labour says is not a "blanket" limit is now in force in Wales.

My home city was one of the "trial" areas so most of us have got used to it. 3rd gear almost everywhere, dropping mpg substantially and causing higher emissions.

But, it'll save "6 to 10 lives" in vehicle vs pedestrian collisions.

Mind you, the same report, commissioned by the Welsh Arsembly, also says that "in terms of air pollution, deaths attributed to nitrogen dioxide (NO2) may increase by 63, and years of life lost by 753 ".

It's all guesstimation of course.

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/...gust-2018.pdf?

Meanwhile, a Welsh Arsembly document has come to light (page 45) that shows how they are going to ruin Wales even further in pursuit of their dogma.

"Further work will be undertaken to develop a fair and equitable road user charging framework, including how local authorities can borrow against these future revenue streams to fund transport improvements; and also consider other alternatives such as workplace car parking levies and road space reallocation."

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/...2022to2027.pdf

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

round where I live (in England) they've suddenly put up loads of 20mph signs, terraced houses, narrow roads, often have to stop to let a car come down before you can go up, and there's a couple of schools, so it's sensible, as ppl often put their foot down to get to the end of the roads first....

....but it's also 20 now on the main roads near by where 30 was fine, wide enough roads, which have islands every now and again and crossings so you can safely cross :( 2 lead down down to a dual carriage way!

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Workplace parking levies aren't new. They've had one in Nottingham since 2012

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

I've never understood why they just ignore this.

They complain about polution, and at the same time force cars to be in an area 50% longer, chucking out more emissions (at least 50% more, probably even higher as engines are likely doing more RPM in a lower gear).

Of course, the reality is that 90%+ of people will simply not do 20 mph anyway, they have had these in Nottingham for years now, and pretty much everyone ignores them.

---------- Post added at 02:56 ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 ----------

That failed miserably, congestion got worse, not better.
The pandemic did a good job of reducing it for ages, but my last drive into the city showed that effect has worn off.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

My city car has never been out of 3rd since I have had it. Also live in trail area. Fed up with electric bikes overtaking me !

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Total logjam on the nearby main arterial road. Drivers headed south from the M4 are being dropped from 70 to 50, 50 to 40, 40 to 30, then encountering a sudden new drop to 20mph past a Uni complex. Right outside is a pedestrian footbridge and 2 pedestrian-controlled crossings.

A speed camera van is parked up on the grass verge!!

Any emergency vehicles that try to make it through will be cursing the Arsembly.

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

220,000 have not signed a petition demanding the 20mph limit be scrapped.

Drakeford's response was one word, "NO!"

"The Senedd uses petitions as a way of giving people a voice and it can show the depth of feeling about an issue.

As well as a debate, the Senedd's Petitions Committee can hold an inquiry if it chooses.

But although petitions can put the minister under pressure they do not have to do much about them, legally.

The petition is due to run until March and could just carry on until then.

But the committee might now have a chat with the petitioner to see what they want to do, and whether they would like to close it so the Senedd can hold another debate sooner - although there have already been two recently.

They closed the first petition, promising a debate, but it was a total whitewash. I say let it run, so it can rise into the millions!

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Why, when 220,000 have NOT signed it?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

On line only , pain to get into,

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

If drivers had any common sense they wouldn't need such limits.

All streets are different. In a residential area cars parked either side, kids playing, even 20 mph is risky.

Unfortunately a lot don't have common sense (particularly if they are Audi/BMW morons...). They really should make common sense part of the driving test.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Perhaps start by instilling common sense in Kids? That is if the parents have any of course.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Yeah the kids should stick to bedroom gaming. What's wrong with the young these days, wanting to play outside.?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

There is nothing wrong with playing outside, just not on a road .. :dozey: but you knew that already. :rolleyes:

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

And if you see kids playing you drop your speed anyway. Same as other situations where conditions dictate driving below the limit.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

3 evenings coming back from the hospital the arterial past our home has been log-jammed from about 4:30 to past 8pm. Mostly due to the new 20mph past the Uni.

Another petition on the Arsembly website is ticking over nicely. I wonder how long before it disappears.

https://petitions.senedd.wales/petit...E60WUyKTT7kzNA

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Voting out the idiots who imposed it seems the only way it will get removed.

And most of the sheeple wont try to challenge it!!

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Last time I checked 400,000 or so signed on the other side 500 signed counter one in favour :erm: given your suggestion most people by a country mile are against it:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

That will never happen, the only way would be Wales to vote Tory , the other main parties will jump at the chance to get on labours gravy train , both have in the past, plaid have loose agreement to support them , they are short of a majority. Be careful what you vote for.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The count is still rising, with a lot from the Labour heartlands.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Sorry any information on what the color stands for. Anyway off out off:shocked:

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Actually the best way to do it in the electoral system used in Wales is to have a ‘no to 20mph’ party stand for the regional list only. No point contesting the constituencies because these are just first-past-the-post. But if sufficient people vote ‘No to 20’ on their regional list ballot then they have a chance. Half the seats in the Senedd are allocated from the regional list.

Let’s face it the Senedd carries on like a jumped up town council so you might as well go for a good old fashioned residents committee approach. Take the place over, get the legislation repealed, then resign en masse. Leave them a mess to sort out and it’ll serve them right.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

My wife took a taxi in Cardiff on Thursday, from our house in Roath to Ely. The journey took over an hour, the taxi driver said it had been gridlocked all week. He also said they are getting lots of complaints about the increase in fares due to the time journeys are taking.

Never mind, looking on the bright side at our other house, at least the most dangerous risk to pedestrians, which are the off-road motorbikes without number plates and many without helmets travelling up and down the street at speeds exceeding 40mph will now be limited to 20mph. That will save the police a job they haven't bothered doing.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The darker the hue, the more people have signed. If you click on each area, you can see the actual figures.

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

That would take the route past our home near Tesco Extra. And yes, it's always gridlocked due to the new 20mph past the Uni.

As for slowing down the Ely drug runners, we all know you said that tongue-in-cheek. Since those 2 lads crashed and died, the police are terrified of being anywhere near an illegal bike being used illegally.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

My wife was talking to her cousin and related how militant cyclist groups (elected? I don't know) had got the estate roads blocked so you can't drive around anymore at all. Other roads now jammed, 20mph a luxury.


And didn't the WA say that the 20mph could be just the start?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

40s dropped to 30 all over the place already. They will be "looking at other speed limits" too. 60 to 40 too on National Speed Limit country roads?

I read their transport strategy bumpf, and it goes on-and-on about pavement parking being fineable with the money being collected and kept by local councils. It also talks about Pay-per-Mile tariffs.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Tucked-away on on page 45......

https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/...2022to2027.pdf

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

And on page 80....

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Page 75.....

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Another....

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

No way will the Welsh Tories repeal this. The stats to show it’s “reducing deaths” on the road will be bandied about too much.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

"6 to 10 deaths" saved through pedestrian/vehicle collisions.

BUT

"In terms of air pollution, deaths attributed to nitrogen dioxide (NO2) may INCREASE by 63, and years of life lost by 753."

From the study they paid for https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/...qyReyJ0_8gzM0Q

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

You appear to have accidentally left off some extremely relevant parts of that paragraph…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1695646753

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Where I live there has been a 20 mph speed limit for the last two years but a lot of drivers tend to ignore this as there are no seed cameras. This was introduced by our Tory Council.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The company that did the write-up admitted it was more "guesstimation" than correct statistical analysis. But the Labour-led Arsembly locked-on to the "6 to 10" figures, staying schtum about all the rest too.

The figures are there for all to see, if you could find them. Hence, I posted the link.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

I’d love to know how they worked that out. Did they carry out an experiment?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

A car doing 20mph is going to be on the same stretch of road for 50% longer, so if its putting out the same amount of pollution, you would expect the overall pollution level of that stretch to rise (by 50% ?). However, I dont know if a car puts out the same amount of pollutants at 20mph compared to 30mph.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Not 30mph down to 20mph but I assume these finding are still relevant.
https://cairntechnology.com/speed-li...l%20pollutants.

A more scientific paper, long winded and also dealing with the effects of various transport/speed options on mental & physical health issues.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ype%20of%20car).

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

A pedestrian vs a modern car would suffer fewer injuries at 20mph than at 30mph due to all the safety features in car design these days. But against a HGV truck at the same speeds? Or even white-van-delivery-man rushing to get his drops done?

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

I trust that involves a vehicle staying in the same gear.

My ULEZ-compliant car does 30mph in 4th at 1000rpm, but 20mph in 3rd at 1500rpm. It will stall in 4th before getting as low as 20mph.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Think I'd rather be hit at 20mph than 30mph. Strange, I know.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Even stranger, I'd rather not be hit at all. :dozey:

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

I think that’s why they’re called "accidents", rather than "deliberates"… ;)

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Perhaps we could educate kids on how to cross the road. We’d have to come up with a snappy mantra. Code rhymes with road, Green for go, Cross ❎ the road. Just can’t think what to call it…….

Or we could just use animals, maybe a Squirrel?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Tucked-away in the murky background is a decades-old mini charity called "Living Streets" that receives £millions from bodies like TfL each year.

They send people to schools to teach kids how to safely walk or cycle to school. But it was noted that they don't teach them how to safely cross roads, as they lean on local politicians to reduce speed limits around places where kids congregate.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Noted by whom?

btw, HMG also fund Living Streets…

https://www.livingstreets.org.uk/new...king-to-school

https://www.livingstreets.org.uk/new...active-travel/

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Teachers and parents who were confused that whilst promoting walking and cycling, there was little or no input about road safety. They thought they were going to get a modern version of The Tufty Club or Green Cross Code.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Which it isn’t…

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Fair enough. But if we reduce the speed limit to 10mph, there would be even fewer fatalities. Ban them altogether and you will have none.

The whole blanket 20mph idea is a nonsense. It is appropriate only in specified circumstances, for example for short stretches near schools an opening and closing times and in areas where there are a lot of pedestrians milling about.

Have these people not heard of a happy medium? Clearly, not.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Within the reams of reports from the Arsembly is a wish to have signs that flash when pupils are arriving or leaving schools. As most of the schools already had 20mph limits set by TROs, that seems to be a "backwards step". So obviously they have no idea how to do joined-up thinking.

There are also many schools that have restricted access on roads during arrival and leaving times. Cameras are there and they dish out fines regularly.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Sounds like they are trying to get the attention of those who aren’t taking any notice of the limits (those getting fined).

Prevention is better for everyone involved (the school kids at increased risk from the speeding drivers, and the drivers in not getting fined/points).

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

I've just had to drive up to the local hospital. And it had started raining. I drove off the 20mph estate, onto the rare bit of 30mph arterial, and was being passed by vehicles driving at 40mph+. Then onto the 20mph roundabout, and they were appearing around the tree-obscured bend at 30mph+. Not fun. Those that always drove too fast are still driving too fast even in heavy rain.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Average speeds on the affected roads are 2.9mph lower since the change:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...rking-27779212

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Exactly why speed limits are needed. A lot of drivers are f*wits. Best case they'll get caught at some point, worst case an accident causes them to think again. Things have got worse l. I blame lockdown , where anything went.

After dark when the police have gone home speed limits are totally disregarded where I am. 20 mph wouldn't be needed if there weren't so many behind the wheel, who see nobody outside their metal bubble. It's an increasingly selfish society and this is just one of the symptoms.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

:tu:

I've just been back to the hospital. It's still chucking it down, and the idiots are still ignoring the speed limits. It's 15mph in the hospital grounds, but due to the dark and rain, I slowed to below 10mph. And I had a van behind me leaning on his horn!!! When I turned off to get to the pickup point, he zoomed ahead at 40mph+!!!

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Yes, because motorists are stuck behind vehicles doing 20mph. Lower speed limits = increased congestion, more frustration, and increased emissions.

Seems to make sense to the greenies and anti-car morons.

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:21 ----------

So how do you think the 20mph limits will slow down the speeders when 30mph doesn’t?

A bit of muddled thinking there!

---------- Post added at 13:25 ---------- Previous post was at 13:23 ----------

Of course they are! Adjusting speed limit signs downwards will not change that behaviour - in fact it will increase the number of motorists viewing the signs as being irrelevant.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Speaking of muddled thinking…

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Care to explain how that works?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Had in my area for a number of months, used to see spaces in road big enough to walk across. Now it's one long trail of vehicles, the main road in the village looks like a car park. Really quicker to walk it's length, noted car at the start still only half way be the time I am at the other end.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Because as cars slow down they get closer together. Look what a reduction in the speed limit for road works does to traffic that was previously well spaced between vehicles. You get the same effect when vehicles reduce from 30 to 20.

---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:29 ----------

As I said it makes sense to the greenies…..

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Bingo! That's exactly why it reduces congestion.

It's the same reason they impose 40, 50 or 60mph limits on congested motorways. You can pack more cars into the same space if they go slower.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Isnt that the definition of congestion ?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

In the OED, under "Non sequitur", it says "see Old Boy"

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Here in Warrington we had planters installed on one of the roads, the out come was it moved all of the cars on to the only other road that could be used. The outcome of that was that the traffic was nose to tail from 07:30 till 17:30

They also reduced the speed on that only other road as well, not that it mattered as cars were nose to tail anyway.

Monitoring of the air provided information that showed that the congestion created increased the air pollution. In addition there was more rear end shunts. The council said they had decided to remove it 12 months later having listened to locals. However it came out that the Government had decided not to fund the project going forward.

The out come is that as everyone had said in the beginning they did it just to claim the funds from the Government

Part of the council statement on removal

“With government funding now withdrawn for new LTN schemes, it’s about looking to the future and identifying new ways of cutting the number of cars on our roads, reducing air pollution and protecting the health of our people and our planet. This work will continue and will need to be shaped by national guidance, policy and legislation.”

https://www.warrington.gov.uk/central-6-streets-plan

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Sounds correct to me

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

No, I'm talking about traffic moving freely at the speed limit. If you can't achieve the speed limit due to the volume of traffic, the speed limit isn't the problem.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Blanket 20mph zones are just a bad idea. It’s simple and obvious.

It won’t save anymore lives and will increase pollution, and stress.

Anyone that supports them are either disingenuous or don’t drive.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Well our PM is against them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66965714

Sadly hes not likely to be in power long enough for it to matter.

I'm sure looney labour will be in favour.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

That's probably the most depressing part about it. The Conservatives don't really care about drivers, or making towns/cities more liveable places.

Simply weaponising the anger might be worth a couple of percentage points in the polls and they might not lose by quite as devastating an amount.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Our son noticed that several bus companies that used to route their buses through the village, now bypass it altogether due to the congestion. That means fewer buses for the locals to travel in-and-out of the city centre.

I now only rarely visit the local Lidl because getting out of the site is very difficult with the 20mph limit packing cars closer together.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

That’s some weird logic you are using there, spiderplant! :smokin:

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

You do understand the concept of stopping distances don’t you?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

It's a win win OB...
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...h-speed-limits

Granted your Waitrose run may take a few seconds longer but a price worth paying ? (Not referring to the Waitrose prices here... ;))

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

It's true. Let's do some sums...

I'll use metric to keep it simple, but feel free to convert to whatever units you prefer.

Firstly, 30mph (48km/h). Now I'm sure you're a sensible driver, and always leave a safe gap from the car in front so you can stop if necessary. The Highway Code tells me the typical stopping distance at that speed is 23m. And let's say a typical car is 4m long. So each car at 30mph occupies 27m of road. So each hour, 48000/27 cars can travel along the road. That's 1778 cars per hour.

Now 20mph (32km/h). The stopping distance is 12m, and cars are still 4m long, so each car occupies 16m of road. Each hour, 32000/16 cars pass. That's 2000 cars per hour.

So by reducing speed from 30 to 20mph, you've managed to get 12% more traffic down the same road.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

In modern cars at 20mph the stopping distance is about 10cm, ( joking, but it’s very small) my vehicle even stops for me, taking out the feeble human reaction time.


20mph zones are bollocks, any one that supports them are sub-normal on all levels.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The RAC disagree with you

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/l...ing-distances/

20MPH 12 metres (3 car lengths)
30MPH 23 metres (6 car lengths)

Nearly twice the distance

So you think anyone who supports a 20MPH zone outside a school is sub-normal?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

How do you make out that relieves congestion? Cars spaced out become cars closer together. Have you thought about how much more difficult that is to cross the road?

---------- Post added at 00:29 ---------- Previous post was at 00:28 ----------

No way!!! My shopping is online and Asda is far too unreliable!

---------- Post added at 00:32 ---------- Previous post was at 00:29 ----------

It depends what you are trying to achieve. It’s altogether a bad idea and if you want to reduce accidents, why not just ban cars? Ridiculous!

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Maybe you drive differently where you live, but around here drivers dont get tape measures out and measure how far they are from the car in front.

---------- Post added at 02:05 ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 ----------

I presume you mean for the hour or so when schools start, and finish (weekdays only). At those times its so busy & "congested", you'd be lucky to do 10 mph past the school.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

:rofl:

Scraping the barrel here now, OB. Much like your favoured political party.

I’m not sure running across roads between cars going 40 is better than cars doing 20.


Straw man alert.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The comparison is between 30 and 20mph. And yes, it is more difficult to cross a road even when cars are travelling slowly where they are bunched up.

As for your last 'point', I don't know how you make out it's a straw man argument. It's a balance of risk.My argument is that it's obvious that the more you reduce speed, the more accidents are prevented and lives saved, but everything we do has a measure of risk. You cannot eliminate it. 20mph on all residential roads is potty, and I think most people know that.

This issue will be Labour's Archilles heal at the next election. And they were doing so well...

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

:rofl: the word you are looking for is hope.

We will see. It's a last roll of the dice for a Government devoid of ideas.

Thus far all I can see is that the Venn diagram of GB News viewers and people "genuinely interested in the subject" that funnily enough they never raised before 2023 is broadly a circle. That's maybe a fraction of one per cent of the electorate.

A genuinely 'pro-driver' Government would reduce fuel duties and stop using drivers as a cash cow. 30mph vs 20mph in built up areas is neither here nor there. Even the Tories don't think it's a good idea, but like the Liberal Democrats they can say anything now knowing they'll never have to actually do it.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Have you taken note of the public reaction in Wales? If you think blanket 20mph limits are a good idea, I don’t know what is motivating you. Are you even a motorist?

I thought we were trying to clean up the atmosphere. This does the opposite. This blanket limit is causing havoc in Wales. Journeys taking longer, congestion increasing, buses having to rework their timetables and cut services….

Yes, jfman, brilliant idea. You should stand for election one day - you have the ability to argue absolutely anything.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Quite.

However the idea that no-one can cross roads in 20mph zones (but can at 30 or 40) is preposterous. OB knows that, and if the Conservative Party weren't peddling this rubbish he'd be nowhere near the thread.

It also ignores the potential for local authorities to intervene by introducing crossings, or what existing crossings may exist on many roads.

---------- Post added at 09:37 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

Interestingly, someone did stand for election with this very policy in their manifesto. The Welsh Labour Party!

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

He takes his cues from CCHQ.;)

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

I didn’t say it was impossible, and it depends on how much traffic there is on the road. But it’s certainly more difficult to cross with so much traffic bunched up and moving. I have seen this many times near our local schools.

The increased pollution from slow moving cars should also be taken into account.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

Yes, and if you read the newspapers, you will soon see how that’s going down in Wales.

Now the reality of blanket 20mph limit is hitting home, the lesson is to be careful what you vote for.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Boris was a big fan of 20MPH zones - he introduced them as London Mayor.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

ULEZ was his idea too. Tbf he to be fair he thought all these things would be popular which is the only reason he did anything.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

And your solution is to allow people to drive faster?

If the people of Wales vote for someone else at the next Welsh election. Otherwise between now and then I’ll file it under minor issues that energise old, angry, white men to distract them from the incompetence of the Conservative government.

I’m really surprised at the number of Conservatives on here supporting big Government diktats. Surely these decisions are better made in local communities, by local decision makers, at local councils?

As for pollution I think you’d have to be pretty gullible to think there’s any meaningful difference. We are leading the world don’t cha know?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...8&postcount=28

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

I know, and it was a bad idea.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The congestion near schools is not caused by the speed limits. It's caused by parents driving their kids to school because of the perception that it isn't safe to walk or cycle. If a 20mph limit changes that perception, fewer people will drive, and it'll become safer and less congested. Win-win.

Wales does not have a blanket 20mph limit. They have simply changed the default. If local authorities want to apply a 30mph limit to a road, they can, just like they could previously apply 20mph where appropriate.

As it happens, the residential roads in my area have had 20mph limits for years. It's a non-event. It makes no significant difference to journey times because those roads are only a small proportion of a typical journey, and I have no difficulty crossing the road(!)

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Can you source a post where you actually said that at the time?

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The anti-car brigade think that by making life difficult for motorists, they will abandon their cars, but the evidence doesn’t support that. The lack of parking spaces and other measures being introduced just result in the roads being more congested. That’s what we have found around here.

As I said, it’s the blanket imposition of the 20mph that is wrong. Put it where it’s needed, yes, but not all the residential roads. There is no case for that justifying such an extreme measure.

One useful suggestion that jfman has made is to have more pedestrian crossings. That is likely to be a much more acceptable solution for most people and would improve road safety.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------

Maybe not in a post, but I have been against the proliferation of 20mph limits and speed humps for many years. The Welsh solution, which other local authorities seem to be dribbling with great enthusiasm to implement themselves, is a stretch too far.

Can you source a previous post on here where you were in support of the Welsh government introducing this measure before this thread was started? It doesn’t really matter whether you can or can’t. The forum is a place to express your views.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

No, because that’s not the point I’m making (nor one I’ve ever made so wouldn’t claim to have done so).

It 100% matters if you claim to sincerely hold a strong view that on the evidence available nobody can find a single example if you mentioning before the current “war on the motorist” became Conservative propaganda.

It also rings incredibly hollow your faux concerns around pollution given your many posts on the matter downplaying the issue.

Is there any evidence to support your claim people will “abandon” their cars in areas of 20mph limits versus those in 30mph limits? I’m more likely to think people will abandon their cars because of the biggest real terms drop in living standards since World War 2 but that’s probably my unconscious bias towards economics.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

The problem is also the is the increasing number of cars. 5 million more on the road now than in 2000.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/

Every adult in a household now seems to need one. Front gardens have been paved over to make more parking space for several vehicles. . We seem to have forgotten how to use legs/ get on a bus ( and we're getting fatter for some reason).

Don't think it's an anti motorist country it's an anti anything that gets in my way country. Hence the frustration with speed limits /congestion.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Once again, you are responding to arguments I haven’t made. The pollution issue is one of the reasons to justify the lower speed limit. Whether I believe that we should reduce pollution is irrelevant, although of course I am. It’s the link to climate change I am sceptical about.

I didn’t say that people would abandon their cars, did I? I said that this was the goal of the anti-car brigade.

You really must learn to read posts properly and dampen your fervent imagination.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

Your entire argument is irrelevant if even you don’t believe it, OB.

It merely confirms by suspicion that you are parroting lines from CCHQ rather than sincerely held beliefs that you think will make their lives better for the ordinary, hard working, British people who are having their living standards decimated by Conservative incompetence.

If Sunak came out the other way earlier in the week you absolutely would not be here arguing the points you are making today.

Re: 20mph is just the start.
 

You’ve done it again! The pollution argument has been put forward by others - I was just commenting that reducing speeds to 20mph will increase pollution.

The remainder of your comments are just plain wrong. There’s no point in discussing anything with you, you’re just argumentative for the sake of it.

I’ll let you have the last word and people can make up their own minds.