Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

"The Crooked House", famed as being Britain's wonkiest pub has now been demolished without local authority consent following a fire that gutted it a few days ago. The fire follows a few days after the brewery that owned it had sold it to a "mystery" buyer.

Why it was never made a listed structure I don't know!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2389606.html

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Totally agree. I heard the earth moving equipment was booked before the fire happened :shocked:

Remember, it is all about the money ....

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

You mean the earth moving equipment that was used to build the mounds of earth to block off the area if caravans turned up?

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If you like, yes :rofl:

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There’s a spate of old buildings in Glasgow that mysteriously burn down. Including the Art School, twice!

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Thought to be arson, in a news report that surprised…………no one

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https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1691656118

If only there had been a gate there… ;)

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Many examples of where the usual suspects have simply removed any gate.
If it was supposed to be the mounds of earth that blocked the fire brigade, why wouldn't the gate also have blocked them? Proves that earth moving equipment was needed before any fire.

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Because they have hydraulic cutters that'd make short work of the padlock and a lot of the time they have a key anyway, that's why the gate wouldn't have blocked them

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I think you misspelt fire engines.

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Why would the Caravan Club be going there?

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They go anywhere they like specially if it upsets the locals. As for mysterious fires we have had a few in Warrington where the local council had just refused planning permission for demolition so flats could be built in place of the old buildings

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ester-32305364

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk...-away-with-it/

https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk...-famous-faces/

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We had a situation a few years ago on a new development in our town. A big complex was built along with a cinema & two night clubs. There was also supposed to be a hotel built on the sight, but the deal fell through & it remained scrub land.

A while later twenty caravans illegally entered the site, whence things started disappearing out of locals gardens & sheds. Then came the weekend, with hoards of youngsters tipping out from the nightclubs at 2 & 3am. The caravan occupants got into a confrontation with them & ended up being pelted with empty beer bottles & anything else that was to hand. Needless to say the local council needed to take no action to evict them. The caravans had mysteriously gone by the following morning.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Some years ago a couple of my team met a developer on site to do some background noise measurements. He told them the owner of the derelict house adjacent to the site they wanted to develop wasn't for selling but it wouldn't be an issue 'in a couple of weeks' and as if by magic it burned down soon after.

I think this sort of thing goes on pretty often, the number of old mills that've burned down in Bradford over the years. I think some owners see it as a victimless crime as fire insurance is often the last thing they stop paying.

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Wally World by any chance? If so, that was meant to be a Ladbroke Group hotel, but their focus changed once they got involved with Hilton. Nobody seemed to think that was a good spot for a luxury hotel for some reason. :D

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Pity it wasn't listed. There was certainly a reson for it being so.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-to-rebuild-it

They are still trying though.

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashi...ished-26915290

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Yep! & the rumour was that local police never wanted to deal with the rowdy behaviour every weekend. So, despite there being virtually no traffic on the roads at that time of night they would come from several miles away with sirens blaring & lights flashing. Because the site was on top of a hill anyone up there had a good 3 minutes warning of their approach & had ample opportunity to scarper into the local housing estates.

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I lived in your neck of the woods for a few years when I was first married. Quickly learned not to go anywhere near the McDonalds drive-thru when coming out of that cinema….

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Well that wouldnt have stopped it burning down.

Since it ended up a burned out shell, what else would they do besides demolish it ?

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Maybe, but in my opinion, whilst novel, this was a dangerous structure. The place could have collapsed on its customers at any time.

Actually, my opinion is that if you buy the land, you should be able to do with it as you wish, within sensible planning regulations. If the authorities want to list a building on the land and this is incompatible with what the owner wants, the authorities should be given the option of buying it at commercial rates. If they are not prepared to do that, the owner should be allowed, within reason, to do as they want, including demolition.

This country needs to free itself from unnecessary regulation, and where they want to impose unreasonable compliance, they should put their money where their mouths are.

---------- Post added at 19:54 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

It’s pretty clear that this was planned, but good luck to them! How could the authorities have allowed the place to operate with this degree of subsidence? I’m no expert, but it seems to me that the place was in imminent danger of collapse.

I suppose it was a tourist attraction, but are tourists dispensable just because they live somewhere else?

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Typical OB here. Anything that has any meaning in this country, anything of value in a community, is to be destroyed and commoditised for someone else to gain profits. Even if it’s the result of criminal activity.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

I didn’t say that. I said that if it is of value and the owner doesn’t want it, the assigned authority should be obliged to buy it if they think it’s of genuine interest. I also pointed out that the structure was unsafe.

For once in your life, answer the points and stop the trolling.

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So we get to bypass the lawful processes by which buildings can be demolished and replaced for profits, ignoring the communities they are in and historic status of the building?

Gotcha.

Here’s an idea if you don’t want to buy a wonky pub don’t buy one, and seek out other land elsewhere.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

No. I’m saying the law should be changed. I know that this is a concept that challenges you. 😆

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Your own words

A disgusting enthusiasm.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

An interesting question.

Ain’t that the truth.

The mayor of Pisa has just been on the phone, he says they have need of your insight at the city council. If you hurry you can catch the late flight.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

The Tower of Piza looks a lot more stable than that old pub was - even more so now! :D

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

You're the only person I'm aware of saying the building was unsafe.

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It’s stood for decades, nay, hundreds, of years.

Sounds like red tape, ‘elf and safety gone mad, etc. to say it’s unsafe now. Especially with no qualifications :rofl:

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Oh, right. That’s an interesting point that I hadn’t considered.

Remind me to take no notice of anyone on here who advises me on buying a property!

Interesting that you can’t see the danger presented by this. People I know have been advised to evacuate their subsidised property and it looked a lot safer than that relic!

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Speculative nonsense as always.

Has any competent authority determines this? What you would buy is irrelevant.

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It's the sort of structure the local council would visit regularly as they wouldn't want to be left holding the bucket of you-know-what if something did happen. It's the kind of thing I'd expect an armchair structural engineer to know, especially one with local authority experience.

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Yes, and no doubt it would have stood forever! You are so hilarious! I’d stop now while you’re losing this argument! :D

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OB if losing an argument was a worthy cause for not contributing we’d see much less of you.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Then let the local council pay for it.

My local council paid for a telephone box that is now plastered with masking tape and with seven panes knocked out! The paintwork has all peeled off. By the way, the phone no longer works!

You couldn’t make it up and you people all seem to think it’s OK!

Common sense has gone out of the window.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ----------

I’ve not lost any argument. Nobody seems to be arguing the points I’ve made.

I did notice that, and it’s a common theme on Cable Forum, unfortunately.

Why exactly do you think this dangerous structure should have been preserved?Clearly, not many people visited it!

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“Common” sense - and dare I say adhering to the law - would have told the purchaser who wanted empty land to go elsewhere rather than break planning rules to remove an existing structure they didn’t want when they purchased it.

More anecdotal evidence of nothing at all.

---------- Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

When your points are entirely fabricated to justify a property developer breaking planning rules - as decided by the Conservative Government, implemented by local authorities - it’s unsurprising that the vast majority, using their “common” sense, decide to ignore you.

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And still, you haven’t got the ammunition to address my argument. What are you playing at?

I think I know the answer. It’s called deflection.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

OB it’s not my fault if you are incapable of, or wilfully are not, understanding the inherent flaw in your own argument of condoning potentially criminal activity.

What the planning rules could/should say are irrelevant.

You’ve made it clear the interests of property developers should go above local communities. You want them to be able to ride roughshot over the hard won restrictions that are in the planning system to control land use in this country. Considering you are condoning slavery as the answer to Britain’s lack of competitiveness in global markets in the other thread I would call it a night.

If you are going to hang about then riddle me this, OB. As a Conservative of all things. Why should a landowner of nearby land, with appropriate planning permission for whatever someone wants to build, have their land (and asset) devalued by criminal activity, knowing that anyone can buy any other land without planning permission, illegally demolish whatever happens to be on it, subsequently get planning permission that wouldn’t have been approved without the illegal demolition in the middle?

Very sad this happend to it :(

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

I see OB has got the latest talking points from CCHQ.

Everything (in this and other threads yesterday) is either "deflection", "hot air", "you’re not arguing the points I made", or "I’ve answered that already, it’s up to you to find it"…

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Well, these are not the points I’m arguing. Yes, clearly the law has been broken and that should carry consequences.

My point is that this obsession we have to list buildings has gone too far and the law needs to change. There will be those buildings we wish to preserve, of course, but if nobody wants to buy it and preserve it, it should be bought by the government.

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Back in the day local councils have purchased properties etc to protect them for future generations, but unfortunately your team have cut the funding so deeply that councils no longer have the money.

Also, I wonder if your contemptuous view of the planning laws would change if your next door neighbours decided to install a dioxin factory in their back garden, or open a 24 hour a day heavy engineering works?

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I have already made clear that I am not justifying anyone breaking the law.

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Which law do you believe has been broken?

You're advocating nationalisation? Get back to your left-leaning snake pit. :)

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

And no doubt the same comment could be made of leaning tower of Pisa. Both buildings have undergone some "stabilization". The pub had huge internal steel beams, some of which were clearly visible after the fire. I visited the place back in 2010 & was very impressed with how they were maintaining it.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Total red herring here, OB. You wished them luck ffs.

If you want to go away and campaign for the destruction of anything meaningful and our national heritage knock yourself out. If the pub/land in the current legal framework had no value it should have been sold on that basis - not to someone to burn it down.

If you follow such a flawed logic one could reasonably say the asylum system is failing so “good luck” to make those who wish to make the crossing on small boats.

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Working closely with someone who is in building control I know councils take safety very seriously.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ngham-66514759

I can only assume when OB nods to the entrepreneurial spirit of this couple that’s a euphemism for the accelerant they use.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

They really have had bad luck with things they own burning to ashes in catastrophic fires, haven’t they.

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Crooked House: Arson arrests in wonky pub fire probe

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ngham-66608279

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

While I disagree with the restrictive planning laws on so many buildings ‘of interest’, because I believe it’s your own business if you want to pull an old building down on your own land, I accept that legal action must be taken to enforce the law as it stands.

Obviously, there will be some buildings that the government might want to preserve, but I think far too many are being added to the list.

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The law of the land is the law of the land, whether you agree with it or not.

It’s not for the Government to have to purchase perfectly acceptable historic buildings to save them from criminal vultures.

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I don’t disagree. I said as much.

If they want to list them, they should buy them if the owner disagrees.

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And if they’re already listed, presumably buyers shouldn’t purchase them to burn them down.

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I would just gently point out that the pub wasn’t listed.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

Not listed but listing. :D

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

You are the one banging on about the Government having to buy listed buildings.

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The building wasnt listed, so you have no point thats relevant to this topic.

Re: Disgusting disregard of our heritage.
 

The OP mentioned listing in his first post, and it has been raised on several occasions on here by various posters. I was addressing those points.

Yes, it wasn’t listed, but there were moves to do so prior to the fire.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-68414524

A welcome development - they’ve been ordered to rebuild it.

Hopefully some kind of deterrent for future arsonist property developers.

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I assume the entity owning it will fall into receivership and it won't be rebuilt. Then someone else will buy the and redevelop it. But hopefully this penalises the current owners.

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That was the first thing that went through my mind. I would love for that pub to be rebuilt however i feel it will never happen.

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They could not rebuild it "as it was" as it would fail too many building regulations.

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I strongly suspect that they will liquidate their company and just walk away.

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Well known pub in Cardiff , was sold to convert in to flats but the front had to stay . It burnt down and had too be demonstrated. :shocked:

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I can honestly say I dont really care either way. :sleep: