Missing Titanic Sub
 

It's not looking good for the 5 people on board the missing sub. This was a tragic accident waiting to happen. This has been stated by many that has done the expedition and from those that have cancelled due to safety concerns of the actual sub.

I'm not sure what to think about it all. The less I think about it the better for what they must be going through or gone through. But they all sign waivers / disclaimers that mention death 3 times on the first page. They knew what they were getting themselves in for. As for a father letting his son to accept this risk I find it a bit hard to take.

I'm sure there will be an investigation into the owners / company (OceanGate) but if they knew what they were signing up for then I'm not sure how it'll go.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

This is what the waiver is for. It is obviously dangerous by its very nature and things can go wrong with pretty much everything. This would never happen to me the same as I would never die from mountain climbing or bungie jumping or parachuting out of a plane.

Horrid way to go though

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Waivers don’t stop people being sued or prosecuted for negligence or things not being "fit for purpose".

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I find it almost impossible to believe what is going on.

Even though most of the people on board made a choice to go, their friends and relatives didn't but they still have to deal with imagining the fear and desperation of the people they love trapped in what may end up being their coffin. I don't think I could deal with what is happening if it were my husband or son.

https://news.sky.com/story/titanic-s...idday-12907371

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I have not really kept up. I guess there is reason to believe the vessel was not fit?

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It’s launched from international waters to avoid US regulations for a start.

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I'm afraid they'll only be recovering bodies. I'd be interested to know what contingencies where in place to cover this situation.

They say they lost communications after two hours, I believe it takes longer than that to reach the site, which would suggest a failure with the sub as opposed to the sub being snagged on wreckage.

I would have thought such a sub/ operation would have:

1. Redundant power systems should one fail.
2. An independent battery powered transponder.
3. An umbilical to the surface vessel.
4. A duplicate sub on the surface vessel capable of retrieving the sister sub.

and I'm sure there are other mitigations that could have been in place. I know it's a risk doing this kind of thing but you have to cover off as many what ifs as possible, and a power failure must be the No.1 on the what if list.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...g-submersible/

It's the depth that the submersible reaches just to see something through a window rather than on a TV screen that makes the whole trip seem a stupid to me.

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I can only assume everyone on the search is seeing the dollar signs as a reward for finding it.

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I can only assume you forgot to take your anti-"world-beating cynic" medication today…

From the Washington Post

https://wapo.st/46ha4Lm

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I’m sure billionaires facing certain death would be eternally grateful upon their return. Invoice or no invoice.

Don’t see many folk fishing for survivors in the Med.

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It’s launched from international waters because that’s where the Titanic is, though I don’t doubt lack of regulation at that location is also highly convenient to their business model.

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I think the thrill for adventure must have overtook any doubts over safety concerns.


Something of this magnitude (when you consider how far deep the Titanic is located) should have had much higher safety systems in place. Whether it was the excitement of exploration or the proffit making potential of this business, there should have been much more safety systems and legislation / certifications of equipment in place to ensure these subs could cope.


Even if all comms failed you'd think there would be some sort of manual deployment of an air baloon or something that could rise to the suface and catch peoples attention.


If a plane goes down in the ocean they all have an Underwater location Becacon. These should work in ideal conditions upto 5km underwater and upto 1.5km in worst case situaitons.
Why didnt they have that?!

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

'Debris field' discovered within search area near Titanic, US Coast Guard says

https://news.sky.com/story/debris-fi...-says-12906735

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Well, it won’t be much of a field, things don’t tend to explode at that depth.

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Every bit of junk and bang in the North Atlantic will be getting looked at now.

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Yep, on the BBC site as well. :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/worl...anada-65967464

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Looks like they died a couple of day ago when contact was first lost. Comforting, hopefully, that it appeared to be instantaneous and not suffocation.

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Some sources are saying that they heard signs of an implosion straight after communications were lost. So sort of knew the fate of the sub from the very beginning.


I guess it is a better way to go than sitting there waiting for the oxygen to run out.


I hope they can rest in peace and my thoughts go out to their families.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

I read a post on Reddit a couple of days ago - before the debris was found - that said because of the time it lost communication it would be highly likely to have imploded as it would be around the time it reached the requisite depth for that to occur.

They mentioned both the sub and the parent ship would have had telemetry that monitors such things and the fact there was no communication publically about this data until the point they lost contact - that they didn't say the hull seemed fine - was a clue.

It looks like this was the assumption of every expert in deep-sea exploration as well. The timing of the loss of contact seems to have tipped them all off that this thing was already gone but so long as they were only 99% sure the rescue operation would continue until they reached that extra 1% certainity.

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At least they would not have suffered as death would have been instantaneous.

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I think I prefer running out of O2, you would just fall asleep

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I think it's the knowing for however many hours that it's going to happen that's the hard part.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

I think the high CO2 scenario is preferable and would probably have happened first although I wouldn't wish any of the choices on anyone.

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Nope. There will be no bodies to recover.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

In fairness to Pierre, that was post 7 and we know much more now than we did then.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Bluntly: implosion in 1 millisecond results in all five of them being reduced to human jelly. Mercifully the human brain would require at least another 25 milliseconds for them to have been aware of it in any way at all. Genuinely instantaneous. Immediately after that, the sudden and extreme compression of the sub’s atmosphere results in ignition and explosion, cremating the human remains along with the Xbox controller and anything else flammable on board.

They will in time recover the metal parts of the sub from the sea bed, I’m sure. But they will not be bringing back any trace of the five men on board. :(

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Sad, but the migrants off that drowned off the coast of the Canary Islands on Wednesday , will have had a worse death. Sod all coverage of that, as they weren't billionaires. Just desperate poor people.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Not so poor that they couldn't pay the people traffickers.

The sub story was an ongoing one. They was something ongoing to report on.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Yeah, I’ve seen that trope all over Twitter the past 48 hours - actually referring to the Greek incident, rather than the Canary Islands one. Either way the problems with it are several.

First, the events didn’t happen at the same time, and when the migrant tragedy occurred actually it did lead the news, in the UK at least, for at least a couple of days. Hardly anything leads national news bulletins longer than that unless there are continuing revelations. So the claim is disingenuous.

Second, the authorities involved are not the same. We can’t know what the US or Canadian coastguard or naval services would have done had they had jurisdiction in the Med, nor what the Greeks would have done in the North Atlantic. You’re trying to compare apples with pears.

Third, much of the moral outrage on social media has dealt in juvenile caricatures in which everyone on the ship in the med is automatically of noble character and has died tragically while the rich people on the sub are somehow corrupt and deserving of their fate. These sentiments ultimately help nobody because policy-makers can simply discount them as the fringe lunacy of the usual suspects.

Beginning such observations with a perfunctory ‘sad, but…’ does not absolve you from what ought to be a basic human duty to treat all loss of life as a tragedy, if not for the sake of those lost then for the sake of those left behind to grieve. There has been rather too much moralising that, when you scratch beneath the surface, actually looks a lot like the cynical exploitation of one human tragedy to advance a political campaign concerned with another human tragedy.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Events don't need to happen simultaneously to draw legitimate comparisons, nor within the same geography. Especially if the tragedies are supposedly human ones.

Nobody sincerely believes the loss of all human life is a tragedy, neither that it's a human duty to do so. It's the kind of trope people roll out in exactly this type of occasion to silence critics of how the discretion is actually applied in the real world by policy makers.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

He would say that wouldn’t he? …. Surely not invoking Mrs Thatcher are we?

Except, as I pointed out above, the primary failure of the argument here is that the two incidents lie in the purview of two entirely different sets of policymakers. Who’s to say what the Canadians or the Americans would have done had the migrant tragedy unfolded on their doorstep? Or the Greeks, if confronted by a stranded sub full of billionaires?

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Different take on the tragedy…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1687557458

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Laws of physics come to mind. The sausage shape was entirely due to the need to cram in more paying passengers and had nothing to do with it being a better shape for withstanding high pressure than a sphere (because it isn’t).

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Who is to say indeed. One can only rely upon educated guesses. Or a mystical belief in a North American Utopia that incidentally doesn't ordinarily volunteer to take on the refugees it bombs onto Europe's shores.

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Not so sure it is tbh

I didn't think there was any nobility in poverty

Bozo really is a colossal johnson

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Not quite sure Titanic tourism is exactly space exploration.

That said, for anyone interested the planned launch of the space shuttle Endeavour (STS-400) to rescue the crew of Atlantis (STS-125) in the event of observable heat shield failure is a fascinating read. This deviated from every other rescue launch of a shuttle in that those anticipated refuge in the International Space Station.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

IIRC that was the final Hubble servicing mission. There was no possible flight plan that would have allowed Atlantis to reach the ISS in the event of heat shield damage, hence the requirement to have another shuttle ready to go.

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So launching into the Atlantic Ocean is a sensible thing to do at a cost of thousands of dollors? What planet are you on?
I don't see any need for seeking asylum from the Canaries unless they were heading to Russia.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Absolutely spot on, well said.

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They were travelling from North Africa to the Canaries

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-islands-spain

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12 men have walked on the moon, and about 6 have been to the Mariana Trench which is 7 miles down.

Now astronauts know that they are sitting on a bomb which could go bang on the pad and still are willing to go.

So I would say that the risk of an implostion and depths below the ocean is a similar risk, but they would still do it.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

One difference is the actual risk assessment of the equipment. NASA has the greatest minds and engineers in the world. I think I'd rather risk sitting in a rocket, than a sub that's built with bits and pieces and without any safety certificates also known to be a death trap. They'll always be risks, but it's minimising those risks. In this case, the sub was sub-standard.

I'm not sure I'd agree with calling those that go down as explorers, to me they're just paid up tourists doing something different.

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Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

James Cameron who knows a bit about these things summed it up perfectly..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65994707

Well I hope you mean you wouldnt ever do such things......... Neither would I Jay.....

Somehow I gotta wonder why people would want to go down and see a ship that sank?? It wasnt a joke,it wasnt on display..... Let them rest in peace!!



I dunno.......

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Careful, Seph. BoJo will label you a lefty!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lls-pride.html

I'm with you on this one, Seph. The passengers fatally had more money than sense.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

How much money did the teenage boy have then ?

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Given his father was worth $360m, probably quite a lot.

Can't see what point you are trying to make here? They were wealthy, entitled idiots as are those who obsess over this, in objective terms, non-story.

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You mean you dont want to, seems that, as usual, you cant see past that big green streak, some people are better off than you, get over it.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Presumed human remains found in the wreckage according to US Coast Guard :(

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Emphasis on ‘presumed’. As many with relevant experience have been gently explaining since this tragedy occurred, the physics of an implosion at that depth are unforgiving in the extreme. :(

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Some are better off but not that many.

Earlier this month, this happened:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/18/a...hnk/index.html

Who knew? Who cared?

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

I’m not 100% sure what your point is. There’s always a bigger disaster, there’s always more human suffering. At some point you draw a line and watch a repeat of Midsomer Murders on ITV3. Or sit watching blokes hit/kick around a ball. Or pay attention to less worthy news stories.

The “national” news in Scotland today has a pay dispute in a single pub.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

I guess my point is the media obsession with certain events that, with a wider objective perspective, do not deserve that degree of airtime, coverage, etc. These events normally correlate with those involved having wealth, fame, etc. The point here is that this event has so much coverage when others that were more significant in human terms had relatively none.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

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And the fact it was at the site of the Titanic.

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As it always has been , however the media only reflects what the average pleb is interested in . If it doesn't make money they soon lose interest :dozey:

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

Plus
- There were three British citizens on board (Hamish Harding, Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman Dawood).
- The vessel was uncertified.

Re: Missing Titanic Sub
 

That's a fair summary. Just shows how shallow people can be ...