Voter ID
 

Will of the people, the same people whose right to vote they're thwarting, millions unable to vote due to seven accusations of voter fraud, only two of which were proven, rotten boroughs, the only rot is our form of government and the people who sit at the top of it including chaz

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Don't see what your problem is , IDs are widely available . Unless "you" had something to hide.:confused:

Re: Charlie Farley
 

If there's no problem, why introduce unnecessary red tape which doubtless we'll all end up paying for.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Strange that a 60+ bus pass is acceptable ID, but an 18+ bus pass isn’t (or 16-25 rail pass, or 25-30 rail pass, or University student ID).

Re: Charlie Farley
 

haha could it be a Tory scam to try and keep winning hahaha

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Indeed as l have been voting for 40 years and in that time there has been very minimal voting fraud.

It ain't broke so why change it.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

I think you've hit the nail on the head judging by Hugh's list of IDs.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Wrong. Many older people do not have one.

They dont need a passport, dont have a photo driving licence, and dont qualify for a bus pass.

Its a ridiculous requirement that wasnt needed, we dont have widespread voting fraud in the UK.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

The official reason is the level of verification required in order to get any of those IDs. It is, or so I read, notably harder to get a 60+ card than it is any of the others.

That may be true, or it may not be. But the very fact that you can use one but not the others has been echoing loudly amongst the usual suspects on Twitter. I’ve seen the phrase ‘voter suppression’ a lot in recent weeks.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Mmmmm….

For my Metro Senior Bus Pass

For my godson’s 26-30 Rail Card

To get a 16-25 Rail Card

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Would the fact you can use an EEA identity card not be problematic, seeing as you’re not entitled to vote in UK elections as a citizen of an EEA country?

Re: Charlie Farley
 

A railcard does not put you on the electoral register. I'm not sure what the checks for that are. Is it honesty with a big penalty for deliberately false information?

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Resident EU Citizens can vote in U.K. Local Elections, but not Parliamentary Elections.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1683232141

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-8985/

Just found this.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1683233961

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Aye, but the EEA is wider than the EU.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Not sure what your point is, as one of the accepted IDs is a National Identity Card issued by an EEA State?

Re: Charlie Farley
 

If you have an ID card from an EEA member state, that includes Norway and Iceland (and Lichtenstein in fact), whose citizens are not entitled to vote in any UK election because they are not in the EU. I don’t imagine Norwegians and Iclanders are queueing up to vote illegally in the UK but nevertheless, if the idea is only to accept ID that is obtainable by UK or EU citizens, anything you can get with an EEA ID would have to be excluded.

It may well be that they’ve used a sledgehammer to crack a nut here. I’m not minded to try to defend the whole bureaucratic edifice, except from the ludicrous charge of voter suppression that has got certain sections of the commentariat fulminating.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

A firearms licence is much harder to obtain, yet you cannot use that ....

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Does Charlie need photo id? Do not care just wonder where the topic went hahaha

Re: Charlie Farley
 

https://www.electoralcommission.org....ral-fraud-data

2022 Electoral Fraud Data

Doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

But the picture above, and the Electoral Commission website, state that

https://www.electoralcommission.org....B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Whilst the shouts of "voter suppression" are a little over-stated, one has to ask why the 16-25 railcard, 25-30 railcard, and University Student ID were turned down by the Conservatives?

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Because they have realised that the18-25 age group aren't likely to vote in their favour so are making it as hard as possible for them to cast their vote would seem to be the obvious conclusion.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Well to be fair, across the 6 polling stations I was looking after there were maybe a couple of people who were unable to produce the correct ID. The turnout seemed down but that could be due to many reasons.

I think the new system is trying to do two things at once and is a bit lacking at both. The electoral role already reflects who is eligible to vote in a particular election (the eligibility criteria Hugh posted above) with voters being crossed out as appropriate, so why the additional checks? There were some ID check anomalies where the the election office made the ultimate decision which made the staff say hey-ho!


I voted by post and there seemed no requirement for me to prove who I was, the process was the same as it's been for years.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

I simply think that needing ID to vote is wrong. It means "we don't trust you" but there is no evidence of wide scale abuse of trust.
I view the forms of ID accepted more as entitlement devices that can be used for ID.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

The process does come across as reminiscent of the more cynical approach to politics that we've seen since 2016. The fact that Parliament rejected the House of Lords amendment to widen the range of IDs voters could use only reinforces this.

I've yet to read a compelling argument for the ID approach but I'm willing to be proved wrong on this.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

If only as much effort was put in to aligning the rules to make the number of times someone can vote consistent across the different elections - something that causes confusion for voters and polling station staff every election.

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Seems reasonable to me, even matt Hancock admitted there were only 6 possible voter fraud cases at the last election yet the solution to this non existant problem is to deny millions of poorer, younger, more ethnic people their right to vote, it's not ludicrous, it's an attack on democracy

Re: Charlie Farley
 

My guess is that what they’re actually after is ‘family voting’ which is prevalent in certain ethnic communities in certain metropolitan areas that typically vote Labour. In that sense they’re trying to tackle something that is illegal, but by its nature goes largely unreported. Given the racial aspect to it they couldn’t say out loud that that’s what they’re doing.

Obviously that would explain why they’re doing voter ID, not why they’ve devised such an exceptionally complex proof-of-ID system to go with it.

Re: Voter ID
 

A passport is harder to get. My first passport in 1999, all I needed was a neighbour or friend to sign my photo. My new passport, 2022, I had to get someone with a passport and they had to be on the photo referee list. But once you get a new british passport, you can use it to get a photo ID driving licence, national entitlement card, YOTI, etc.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Nonsense. If fraud was that easily noticeable, then they wouldn't try it. The FACT that people have been caught by ACCIDENT(ie NOT investigation) shows that it can and DOES go undetected.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

This might well have backfired.

It was of course intended to suppress non-Tory voters, but looks like it may have suppressed the elderly Tory vote :D

Guess Voter ID will get the boot very shortly. Democracy in action, UK style...

Re: Charlie Farley
 

You seem to have a problem with your shift key. And your logic. :rolleyes:

Re: Charlie Farley
 

You may be onto something! The Forum's favourite politician has tweeted
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/stat...37209636462597

Although many former Conservative voters also went out and voted Labour and LibDem instead.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

You obviously have a problem with facts.
Discovered by chance as someone reported odd goings on.

That just one area of the country.
With selection of Labour MPs and councillors, voting fraud was rife. People were being signed up as party members without their knowledge, and their votes stolen.

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Not largely unreported on cableforum, I started a thread on it myself some while back

Yes exceptionally complicated and expensive, no money for nurses but money no object for this nonsense. This shower can't even win a corrupt election, don't they realise it's a governments duty to make voting easier or something

---------- Post added at 23:42 ---------- Previous post was at 23:40 ----------

Prepare for them to scrap elections altogether, they may even claim it's the will of the people

Re: Voter ID
 

I didnt vote.
The only qualifying Photo ID I have is a passport, and thats locked away in a Safe.
I'm not getting it out and wandering the streets with it just to satisfy this unnecessary stupidity.

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Nice try, but there were NO additional ID checks for POSTAL votes at this election so what was the point of the new system?

Re: Charlie Farley
 

Shows the extent to which certain people go to commit voting fraud. Far from being the only instance and not just postal voting.
The central point is that the number of cases only appears to be low because there wasn't a system in place for checking these things. There was nothing stopping more than a dozen people being registered to vote at one small flat.

Re: Voter ID
 

Or maybe the central point is that the numbers of cases only appears low because the number of cases IS low. And have you stopped to think that maybe those dozen people DO live in a small flat, sleeping in shifts/working in shifts to keep the costs down.

You come across as someone who likes crying wolf.

Re: Voter ID
 

I repaid the the gov by voting labour for the first time in my life,pick the id and the Tax out of that sushi

Re: Voter ID
 

Mark Drakeford, First Minister of the Welsh Arsembly said of voter ID checks.......

"The way they think they can win elections is to learn the lessons from the far right in the United States."

He added: "That is to make it more difficult for people who might not support them to turn up and cast their vote."

Re: Voter ID
 

Well because the then Liebour leader Steptoe swapped to remain, I switch to Tory for the first time and can nver go back.

Perhapes we should take our ID cards? Oh yeah people cried it infringed rights or comething.

Prehaps ID card should be used, many other countries have them without issues.

Re: Voter ID
 

I would gladly carry an ID card, if it was free as in most countries. And if it only held details I accepted as necessary.

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

The "Anti ID" crowd were spreading rumours that an onboard chip could contain masses of personal information that could be accessed by anyone with a reader.

Probably totally incorrect, but there is that possibility. :dunce:

There was talk of combining the ID with your driving licence.

Re: Voter ID
 

I wouldn't worry, this will all be dropped.
It suppressed the Tory vote more than Labours and that was the opposite of what was intended.

Re: Voter ID
 

Really, that's what suppressed the tory vote? I'd have said it was the tory government that suppressed their vote more than anything

Re: Voter ID
 

What makes me lauch is the tracking claims with IDs, yet they carry a moble that knows exactly where they are 24/7.


Sadley these idiots in the minority seems to get their way.

Re: Voter ID
 

Well well well, the tories demand we have voter ID but preside over a country where your vote goes uncounted because of a genuine mistake and before anyone says they only lost 864 votes in Broughton and Scawby, the two tory victors only got 525 votes each, shambolic, inept and corrupt

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

Oh I don't know maybe it's the fact the votes can't be counted now the result is declared, bit like how the home office used ministerial powers recently to directly over rule parliament, I had no idea this is what taking back control meant

Re: Voter ID
 

It is just the latest in a very long line of lies Conservative politicians have fed voters about Brexit since the referendum.

Re: Voter ID
 

Exactly.

It's a fact that older people are more likely to vote Conservative.

This Government is now so desperate that they are even prepared to interfere with the democratic process eg young persons bus passes weren't acceptable ID, but elderly persons bus passes were.

Having worked in various positions both for different political parties and the official Electoral Registration Office, voter fraud is not a major issue in the UK.

From memory, last year in the whole of the UK there were just six cases of alleged voter fraud. After investigate, just two were put forward for prosecution.

People are unlikely to risk getting into serious trouble for the benefit of another person, especially where one extra vote for them is extremely unlikely to sway the final outcome.

A far bigger problem is encouraging people to take part in the electoral process and, after they've made the effort to go to a polling station, being denied the right to vote is hardly going to encourage them to make the effort again.

My belief is that, like in Australia, everyone should ve required to vote in most circumstances. However, an option 'None of the above' should be provided.

An unofficial way to do this already exists by deliberately spoiling the ballot paper. The vest way to do this to help counting staff is to put one big cross over the entire paper.

This way the vote is counted, but not attributed to any person/party.

Re: Voter ID
 

Something as simple as online voting would be the way to go of they really want to increase turnout. But that's not in the Govts. best interest.
Similar for union strike votes, insist voting can only be done by post, and insist on a 50% turn out.
All about suppressing those you don't want to vote is the name of the game. A tactic imported from the US and the republicans/Trump play book.

Re: Voter ID
 

You cannot measure the scale of a problem by reference to the number of prosecutions. For example, look at the number of rapes that are reported and then look at the prosecution rate - it is pretty dire by any measure.

Nobody knows the number of people who used the votes of others before this new arrangement was introduced because there were no checks.

It is easy to get ID from the council if you don’t have a passport, driving licence, concessionaire bus pass, etc. The only real reason this is an issue is that it stops people from committing fraud at the ballot box - a crime that probably benefited Labour.

Re: Voter ID
 

Speaking of fraud* at the ballot box…

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2023...ed-id-at-polls

*defrauding voters of the right to vote by misinformation, meaning they would not be able to vote

Re: Voter ID
 

What about making voting compulsoury?


Other countries do?

Re: Voter ID
 

Why give the vote to people who are not into politics and don’t have a clue?

Re: Voter ID
 

Why give the vote to people who are into politics and don’t have a clue?

Re: Voter ID
 

What next - have to pass a test in Politics, Current Affairs, & Economics before people can vote?

Re: Voter ID
 

Nah, just subscribe to the Torygraph or shop at Waitrose.

Re: Voter ID
 

Enter everyone who votes in the election in a draw to win a prize. For example to get the turnout up in local elections the prize could be a years free council tax.

Re: Voter ID
 

Nothing reeks of freedom more than forcing people to take part in the democratic process against their will. I'd give people a small council tax rebate if they vote and increase it if they don't, you could call it the democracy rebate

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: Voter ID
 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b03e16f1a45050

Straight from the horse’s ass, sorry, mouth…

Re: Voter ID
 

Wonderful irony. No wonder Starmer is content to let this law bake for a while to see how much more damage it will do to the Tory base.

Re: Voter ID
 

It does appear voter id cost the Tories more than Labour so hopefully they'll pull the requirement by the next one.

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

Just shows what an idiot that TV presenter is.

---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Kind of dug their own grave.

I wonder if Labour will retain it?

Re: Voter ID
 

But what about the election fraud they were so worried about

Re: Voter ID
 

Ah, but it was the "wrong sort" of election fraud they were worried about.

In advance of those who will ask me to define the wrong sort, if it’s not obvious then it’s not me you should be asking. ;)

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

So if it was an admitted attempt to gerrymander the electoral system, the only ones guilty of electoral fraud are the Government. Even more so if they now change it back because it didn't fiddle the results as intended. Nothing less than an assault on our democracy, Trump style. Kick them out, sooner the better.

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

:D

Re: Voter ID
 

As a point of information, even though that Victorian Pencil, Rees-Smugg used the term incorrectly - gerrymandering is arranging/changing election districts in a way that gives one political party an unfair advantage, not voter fraud, restricting voting eligibility, or opening up the voting rights to wider participation.

Re: Voter ID
 

One person, one vote. What's wrong with that? Working immigrants pay taxes, so they should have a say. Unlike the leeching pensioners. The young should have more of a say as it will affect the more.
As for EU referendum, its just a matter of time. The tide turned long ago. The selfish old will snuff it. Project Fear has turned out to be a a best case scenario.
(BTW I've never voted Labour, and never will unless our excuse for an electoral system is sorted out to be genuinely representative.)

Re: Voter ID
 

em even JRM admitted the voter id was a attempt to gerrymander for the tories but thats fine i guess

Jacob Rees-Mogg suggests requiring photo ID to vote was attempt to 'gerrymander' which 'came back to bite' Tories
The government has consistently denied that the reforms were an attempt to help Conservative support in elections, but Mr Rees-Mogg's remarks suggest this is not necessarily the case.

https://news.sky.com/story/jacob-ree...snt-sf-twitter

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

I am one of those leeching pensioners and I pay over £100 a month in tax.

Re: Voter ID
 

Reading this thread I get the impression some think that the elderly shouldn't have a vote.Personally I think you would all be spending your time more wisely if you encouraged EVERYONE to register to vote and to actually get off their arse and actually go and vote whatever their bloody age.I'd also like to lower the voting age to 16.

Re: Voter ID
 

Hear hear!

Re: Voter ID
 

tories gerrymandering which JRM admitted to is all fine right

Re: Voter ID
 

tbf, he did post

Re: Voter ID
 

Turns out 26000 people were denied their ballot papers at polling stations because they didn't have ID and that's only two thirds of councils reporting so far and the actual figure are bound to be higher as greeters intercepted many people before they got through the doors too

Re: Voter ID
 

But how many of these will complain when the government does something they don't like.

Surely by not voting they can't complain?

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------


Personally it should be raised to 21, along with drinking alcohol, as this generation can't seem to decide what gender they are.

Before anyone says anything, my niece is in a same sex relationship, her ex is transitioning to a man, I told her I don't know how to handle this, but I will try and not slip buy saying "her" instead of "him"

Re: Voter ID
 

There’s nothing wrong with that as long as only adults can vote and the person voting has been naturalised.

Under 18s are children, not adults, and by the way should not be allowed to put their lives in danger in the Armed Forces until they are 18.

Re: Voter ID
 

Sounds good saying that but what about those that spoil their ballot, can't they complain, they have voted after all, just not to change anything

What all of them?

They aren't allowed to...

Re: Voter ID
 

What miraculous change happens between one second before midnight on the day before their 18th birthday and one second after midnight on the day of their birthday that changes that person from a child to an adult?

(Speaking as one someone who joined up when I was 17)

The voting age was changed from 21 to 18 in 1969 - did "maturity" suddenly change overnight then?

Re: Voter ID
 

The sooner the 17 to 21 group are encouraged into voting the better. We need to get a mindset in the younger generations that voting is in their own best interests. Too many of the 17 to 25 age range aren’t engaged with politics and they are constantly at the whim of older voters who don’t necessarily care about the younger generations.

Re: Voter ID
 

Absolutely. Hence the crap outlook for young people in this country. Birth rate plummeting too. A nation of pensioners will be a problem, as is becoming more apparent each year.

Re: Voter ID
 

Agreed.

Re: Voter ID
 

But you can sign up when you are a child, which commits you to go to the battlefield if required when you turn 18.

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

Of course not, but you are missing the point. The argument is that if you can sign up to fight when you’re 16, it is difficult to argue that you shouldn’t have the vote until 18.

Personally, I don’t think that adult thinking arrives for many until they are in their 20s, so 21 was a probably a better age to determine adulthood than 18, when most are still immature.

Re: Voter ID
 

17 seems a reasonable compromise to me, old enough to take responsibility for a car, then old enough to vote. They are voting for a Govt 5 years ahead, taking them up to the age of 22. Probably the most important years of their life. They are the future and they should have a say.

Re: Voter ID
 

I agree with your thinking on this.

Re: Voter ID
 

Re: Voter ID
 

They're not kids, they're young people, those that don't know anything beyond the end of the nose probably wouldn't bother to vote anyway, another way of looking at it is if they pay tax then they should have a say

Re: Voter ID
 

Indeed if they are working and pay tax they should be allowed to vote.