Is Virgin still crap?
 

I probably already know the answer to this question but is VM still crap?

I've been with ADSL providers now for the last 10 years or so because i had endless years of arguing with Virgin about their jitter fest of a connection and intermittent speed issues due to over subscribing etc etc.

Have things changed or am i still better off on ultrafast fibre?

Looking to switch ISPs shortly.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

It's never been crap for me.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I’ve been off-net for a little over 18 years now :D

While I have no firsthand experience of how VM is (they were still calling themselves NTL when I had them), my impression from reading what people say here is that the technology is fundamentally good but their investment in customer service is poor and their installation/maintenance staff are too few and overworked. So if you get a problem, it is more likely to go spectacularly wrong, but problems, or customer service fails, are by no means inevitable.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

On the occasion I've had a broadband issue their VM forums have always been fantastic checking my connection and booking an engineer but I avoid phoning up.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

It depends what part of it was "crap" for you, there's always going to be areas that are over utilised etc but in general they've been reliable for me

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I've never had a problem.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

it can be hit and miss and depends on the type of problem

my v+ box died, contacted support new box in a couple of day, lost my tv shows which is annoying, but that was a quick turnaround, no complaints.

internet for the most part is great, fast and as a whole reliable....

BUT, last year had a problem, which involved several engineer visits to my house, several new modems, despite the engineers "knowing" it was an area problem, and eventually they fixed the local area problem, but that took a few months, where every day, i'd have an internet outage of 10 mins, or an hour or so!

However, that was an exception, and apart from that mess where I was v close to cancelling and moving to Toob, it's been fine last 10+ years I've lived here

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

BB is fine, tv overpriced, and CS has got even worse.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

We've had very few problems but when we have we've usually received good customer service from either phoning them or posting on the VM forum. The only exceptions have been when phoning CS and getting through to one of the overseas call centres when the agents seem to stick to a script rigidly and don't really listen if something is said off-script.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

They have been the most complained about provider and were spoken to by Ofcom.

Ironically, most complaints are about the way that complaints are handled!

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Your statement is not congruent with actuality…

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-tele...-tv-complaints

They were the most complained about provider for Pay TV, but not for Broadband and Telephony - Talk Talk, Vodafone, & Shell Energy had more Broadband complaints, Talk Talk and Shell Energy had more landline complaints, and BT Mobile had more Mobile complaints.

I believe that VM really need to up their Customer Service, especially their complaints handling, but I think you are letting your animus towards VM colour your statements.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Crap is a relative thing and depends on what you want out of your broadband and ISP. This is my experience

Until 12 months ago I was with Virgin Media FTTC on their fastest band and with two V6 boxes for TV. I switched to Vodafone/CityFibre Gigafast - FTTP. I switched to VF because I wanted their 900Mb symmetrical service to run my free Plex server for 100 clients.

First up, in my experience, Virgin Media's customer service is crap, with poor training of many operatives and poor co-ordination between call centres and departments. There are bright spots if you get the right operative, but this is a bit of a lottery. Offshore operatives tend to be the least satisfactory. The web-based official help forum is pretty good, with experts and access to engineering appointments available if you are happy to wait long enough for a response. However, Vodafone customer services are even CRAPPER with none of the bright spots. They are shambolic, often lacking empathy and nothing gets done unless you call multiple times. Web-based forums are just a moaning shop with no company experts.

Secondly, with VM and VF I always got/get the paid-for up and down speed, with a bit extra. This includes peak periods. Perhaps I live in an non-centended area. However, with VM latency was always a bit high at 13ms and jitter around 2 or 3. VF latency is acceptable at 5-7ms with jitter <1. With both companies outages are a rarity. I have had no outages with VF since I joined them. Please note that VF are currently upgrading their BNGs to a disaggregated model. Customers might find that they aren't on their local BNG for a time, perhaps being routed throgh a BNG hundreds of miles away. This leads to latency of >20ms in some cases.

I can't tell you anything about routers or Wifi because I use my own routers supporting iMesh and Ethernet. Setting up your own router is easier with VM because their SuperHub has a modem-only mode. With VF you have to ask for your user name and password and tweak settings. VF do provide a 4G dongle as backup for if the main connection fails. If you are using your own router you will require a spare USB port.

Telephone with VF is VoIP, supported by their router. If you want to use your own router for phone calls you will need to subscribe to a different VoIP provider. VM provide you with a seperate telephone socket on the wall splitting off from their coax which carries phone, TV and broadband.

VF have no TV service. VM's TV is very good with as much choice as Sky with great capacity for recording and watching because of multiple tuners in their 2TB V6 boxes. V6 boxes in your house talk to each other, sharing settings and recordings.

That's pretty much it.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Internet wise, its never been crap for me, so 'no'.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

You say jittery, which is usually a feature of DOCSIS. They haven't yet moved away from that, so yes, it'll still have jitter. FTTP is the best readily available connection type if you want the least amount of jitter and VM are supposed to be transitioning to it eventually - but it won't happen quickly!

Will it be better than you had previously? Perhaps if there was a fault or overutilization, or you get a new hub without a better chipset. But the only way to tell would be to try them again and bail out within the cancellation period if you aren't happy.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Odd issue here, odd issue there. No dramas for me. Had them and Sky, happy to chase who gives me the better offer.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I'm happy with the internet part, but not much else, including price changing and the 18 month dance to get a half decent deal.

All is not lost though, after forever with no competition BT Openreach will have got fibre in by the time of the next contract renewal. Given that I only actually need Internet and nothing else, and VM actively penalise you if you don't have their all inclusive packages, I'll be giving very serious consideration to going with Openreach.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Their service has been fine for me, for 22 years.
However, their prices may end up driving me away.

I now have FTTP as my backup, and its also working perfectly.
Their 900M is cheaper than VM (and far better upload speed as well).

When my current contract runs out (or even a month or two before) I'll be considering dropping VM.

[ My contract and discount finish at the end of August ]

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I completely agree, service side, VM has been very good, it's the damned pricing that just kills it.

It'll be odd for me with VM being literally the only game in town for many years to have Openreach rolled out in the next 1-2 yrs and of course Openreach allow many other service providers to use their infrastructure, like. Sky, BT, Vodafone, TalkTalk, Zen, and Plusnet.

I'm hoping that competition will be intense and I'll be in a good position finally after having to either suck up any shit VM deals or go to something like a 7Mb ADSL instead.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

:tu:

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

TV overpriced? Talking Pictures is as cheap as chips, you old skinflint!

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

People complain, as they do, but for me the TV service with the 360 box is brilliant. I just wish they provided a streaming / terrestrial option with all popular streamers available, together with a universal search facility.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

It should be emphasised (as you have hinted at) that the complaints were mainly from people who were complaining.

I think I get the picture. Why don’t they just leave?

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Ummmm, what ?
All the complaints would be from people complaining, obviously. :dozey:

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Price rises and awful customer service drove me away to FTTP and a cheapo Sky deal. Now there is an altnet also putting fibre on the poles around here I've got even more choice so I'll never consider virgin for broadband again until they begin to get away from the old cable technology that isn't a patch on FTTP for latency/jitter.

Might go back to them for TV as Sky Q is pants compared to Tivo on the V6, but VM have gotten rid of Tivo too so not entirely sure I'd bother. Plus you have to take their broadband which would just be pointless.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

What I meant was the complaints to Ofcom were made in relation to the way their complaint was handled by Virgin Media. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

BT is expected to increase its monthly prices by nearly 15% on 31st March 2023. This is the largest the UK has seen for broadband in decades, after combining the latest CPI inflation rate of 10.5% with BT's built-in price increase of 3.9%.
However, if you’re a BT customer, you may have agreed to an annual price rise when you signed up, as it's often part of BT's terms and conditions. This means it's unlikely you’ll be able to cancel your contract without having to pay an expensive exit fee.
Customers of BT’s other broadband brands, Plusnet and EE Broadband, are subject to the same annual price increase percentage on the 31st March. The annual BT price increase affects the majority of its residential broadband customers, as the policy is now part of its T&Cs. All new BT customers who signed up or re-contracted with BT after September 2020 would have been subject to an annual price increase in line with inflation plus an additional 3.9%.
This means that you won’t be able to end your contract early without paying an early termination fee. However, you might find that if you're approaching the end of your contract, you could save money overall by paying a few months' worth of early exit fees and moving onto a cheaper broadband deal.” https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/gu...-consumers-do/

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

You've hit the nail on the head, I have never had a problem with the service but I am fed up with their pricing.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I am now on FTTP and service is more consistent and cheaper with a far better upload speed.

Been gone from VM after being a Cable customer for 20+ years straight.

Pricing was unrealistic and are which was once fine started to have more and more issues with bandwidth and latency.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

This is probably the closest answer to the question i was asking but thank you all for your input.

Indeed, i have no need for TV or any other service other than internet, which by the sound of things generally "quality wise" (if you're not judging just on throughput) still sounds inferior to the alternative due to the jitter introduced by the DOCSIS standard. From what i can see they only just finished upgrading to 3.1 from 3.0 a short while ago and from what i can also gather is they have 4.0 on the horizon. Might be worth seeing how that goes before i think of migrating back.

I already have FTTP with my current provider so i think ill just sit on that for a few more years and see what VM have up their wizard's sleeve.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

In a few years Virgin will offer higher inflation busting prices, phone & TV via the Internet only and offer even higher speeds.

There will, thankfull, be more competition, so it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Companies generally seem to be in it to make a quick buck these day's and sell them on after a few years, so Virgin may even have a new owner.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

The broadband is good when it works, the customer service is an absolute disgrace I've never experienced anything worse than them, the constant price rises at every chance they get.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Totally agree.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I can only speak about my own experience.

My area historically has been for for many years a perpetual high utilisation area, densely populated city area where VM has massive take up.

After several years away from VM, a combination of no FTTP in the area, and an annoying fault on my VDSL service, I decided to take the plunge as VM do now have a 14 day penalty free trial period.

I signed up for Gig1, note Gig1 has exclusive use of the 3.1 downstream channel whilst still having access to the 3.0 channels making downstream congestion considerably less likely given the vast majority of customers are on lower tiers.

So how has it been?

Downstream performance is great I am able to hit gigabit speeds around the clock, routinely burst to a few hundred mbits when loading youtube videos e.g., games come down lightning quick, and I can actually multi task on the internet connection now.

In addition jitter issues are considerably improved, its not a DSL level of jitter, but its low enough now that it doesnt really affect working on SSH command line. (Low latency DOCSIS is currently been tested by VM).

Upstream is still congested (remember just speaking about my network segment), I can only consistently get full speeds uploading between about 2am and 8am. Between about 8am and 6pm, it wavers, but usually still above 45. Then during the evening it drops down to about 25-30. Note I am in a 50mhz return path area, so no new upstream channels coming my way just the four 3.0 channels. If you in an area with more modern return path, then you likely have a considerable upstream capacity increase in your area now.

I suspect (but no idea if true) VM are probably using some kind of AQM now, probably PIE if they are. Given my area still has upstream congestion, but no impact on downloads, and also only limited impact on jitter.

I think its worth trying them out, if its still bad, then cancel within the 14 days. Note unlike DSL providers, the 14 days starts from activation, not from ordering.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I can only comment on broadband. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's crap, it's good value for money. However it doesn't have the same reputation it used to, because fibre has become commonplace. Also Virgin don't do FTTP for all packages whereas BT do. Virgin only do FTTC packages apart from for the most expensive one

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Well put it this way, i wont be recommending them to anyone again.

I was taken into hospital with a heart attack on the 14th of December 22 and spent a month in a coma, all in all i was in hospital just over 2 months.

While in hospital they cut our services twice stating lack of funds to cover the direct debit and there was more than enough funds in the account and when the account was checked they hadn't even attempted to take any money as it was still in there.

I'm a very annoyed customer.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I'm sorry to hear that. They did exactly the same thing to a late friend of mine a couple of years ago whilst he was in hospital with after a heart attack. The last thing you need after thst is having to call them.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

So Virgin Media now somehow know when someone goes into hospital and don’t action direct debits??

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

This makes zero sense, how would VM even know if you're in hospital or not?

If you pay by DD it would be automatic regardless of your location - provided you had funds in your bank.

Additionally, why would you be charged 2x in a month? Best I can think of would be perhaps a DD for VMedia and one for VMobile.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

What the heck u going on about? I never said they knew i was in hospital i just said what happened while i was in hospital.

Just checked my emails and they have sent me another email claiming i still owe £51 after paying £131 to have services put back on and was told next bill wasn't due till March. This is stress i can do without and having to sort out their mistakes.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Do you pay by Direct debit Y/N

Do you have VM mobile as well as media Y/N

If you answer Y to the first question then you either had no money in your account or you're delirious.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I do pay Via Direct Debit and there was more than double the amount needed to cover the bill in the account at all times and they didn't even attempt to debit.

No VM Mobile, I'm with EE at present.

I know and can prove there was cash in that account at all times.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

If they had tried and failed you would get a letter from your bank saying they rejected it.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Chris, I've had no such letter which again shows they didn't even attempt to take it.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I've had this before, but the bank said that no attempt was made (so there must be a record kept if this ever happens).

My late friend immediately cancelled with Virgin and, within days, whilst he was waiting for a final bill, they had the audacity to refer the account to a debt collection agency who sent a debt collector round! Luckily I was there and explained the situation to him.

@Corey If Virgin have added any extra fees on for late payment (no idea if they actually do or not),I would dispute this considering that your bank have confirmed that no effort was made to actually collect any monies due.

I would also advise you to check that Virgin haven't informed any credit reference agencies as this incorrect information could make any attempt to obtain credit from elsewhere more difficult or expensive. You can do this for free on the internet.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

His bank hasnt confirmed it, hes simply stated he thinks they didnt.
Given the whole system is automated, it does seem odd they would not.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I have contacted Virgin and the other £51 they had the cheek to email me about isnt due until March 5th.

This is all stress I can do without in the recovery stage of a heart attack.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

[/COLOR]I can totally sympathise as they did the exact same thing to my now late friend. He couldn't be doing with it, so got rid of them straight away. Even then they appointed a debt collection agency before sending him a final bill!!

If you're still in contract, perhaps you can get rid of them due to the forthcoming price rises? Your health is too important for this.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I'm not happy!!!

Since The last post I've received an email stating now I owe £127.36.

I rang virgin and they claim I only owe for next month £57.86 but my bill on my online billing it states £127.36.

If they carry on with this funny stuff they will be receiving a solicitors letter warning them to back off and get their act together.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Legalities are the only language that this outfit understands. Your heart condition may now mean that you are covered by protection from the Equality Act. Have you informed them about your heart issues?

If you have to pay for legal services you might be better using the free service from CISAS. Most complaints about Virgin Media to CISAS either end up with them rolling over to do the right thing or are investigated and upheld by CISAS.

All the best.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

I spotted an error a couple of months ago, rang them and they told me that the DD would be at the correct amount though the online bill still displayed the wrong amount. The DD did come out at the reduced amount as promised. I reckon it's a display issue in the app or online

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Richard, Richard, Richard!!
You need to keep up if your next set of complaints to Virgin Media stand any chance of success.
CISAS no longer act for Virgin Media customers.
https://www.ombudsman-services.org/

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

They were informed not only by the other half on the 2 occasions they cut our services for non payment while I was in hospital when they didn't attempt to debit but I also informed them telling them this was stress I didn't need.

Its as if their billing system for me has suddenly gone up the creek and they can't decide what to bill me.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

That doesn't mean they didn't attempt to take it. If they attempted but the bank couldn't associate the payment request with your account, the bank wouldn't know which customer to write to.

This happened to me once. My direct debits to pay a credit card started failing. But my bank had no record of any failed requests on my account. They advised me to set up the direct debit again, and it was fine after that.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

Topic feels like its drifted from network quality to billing issues.

Re: Is Virgin still crap?
 

The topic is if Virgin is still crap so it should cover all aspects of service.