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Ramrod 16-10-2022 15:13

The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Interesting documentary.
Anyone else wached it yet?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20256556/

Jaymoss 16-10-2022 15:33

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Floyd was a prime example of why you should just comply with the old bill. No matter what colour. He was a wife beating thieving slimebucket still do not wish him dead but he should have just complied.

jfman 16-10-2022 15:38

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Police officers have no authority to execute someone for disobedience.

Paul 16-10-2022 17:19

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137076)
Police officers have no authority to execute someone for disobedience.

Nor did they, try not posting nonsense.

jfman 16-10-2022 17:36

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36137089)
Nor did they, try not posting nonsense.

It was the underlying premise of the post above. Obey the police.. or else…

nomadking 16-10-2022 17:47

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137090)
It was the underlying premise of the post above. Obey the police.. or else…

He resisted getting out of his vehicle. He resisted getting into the police vehicle. He resisted staying in the vehicle by thrashing around, and with policy that is standard even in the UK, he was removed from the vehicle and restrained. He was under the influence of Fentanyl and Methamphetamine and was driving around.

mrmistoffelees 16-10-2022 17:50

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137075)
Floyd was a prime example of why you should just comply with the old bill. No matter what colour. He was a wife beating thieving slimebucket still do not wish him dead but he should have just complied.

Non compliance permits murder ?

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36137091)
He resisted getting out of his vehicle. He resisted getting into the police vehicle. He resisted staying in the vehicle by thrashing around, and with policy that is standard even in the UK, he was removed from the vehicle and restrained. He was under the influence of Fentanyl and Methamphetamine and was driving around.

Was the restraint necessary for the period of time ? Officers have a duty of care to those detained. Where was the duty of care ?

peanut 16-10-2022 18:45

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137092)
Non compliance permits murder ?

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------



Was the restraint necessary for the period of time ? Officers have a duty of care to those detained. Where was the duty of care ?

Not sure why you're stating this. It's what happened afterwards which is the point here.

nomadking 16-10-2022 18:47

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137092)
Non compliance permits murder ?

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------



Was the restraint necessary for the period of time ? Officers have a duty of care to those detained. Where was the duty of care ?

There was NO deliberate act involved. Positional Asphyxia usually involves restrictions to the chest. He was still moving around and trying to resist being restrained. How were they expected to know when he had truly calmed down?
Plenty of cases around the WORLD, where somebody has died after having to be restrained. There was a case in the US where a guy who wasn't being violent or aggressive, other than perhaps verbally, died after being physically restrained by 2 security guards. As the guy was white and the guards weren't, no fuss or riots over it.

mrmistoffelees 16-10-2022 19:22

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36137100)
There was NO deliberate act involved. Positional Asphyxia usually involves restrictions to the chest. He was still moving around and trying to resist being restrained. How were they expected to know when he had truly calmed down?
Plenty of cases around the WORLD, where somebody has died after having to be restrained. There was a case in the US where a guy who wasn't being violent or aggressive, other than perhaps verbally, died after being physically restrained by 2 security guards. As the guy was white and the guards weren't, no fuss or riots over it.

Unfortunately, but alas not surprisingly your views and your knowledge on the subject are detached from reality, officers are fully trained in restraint techniques and how to monitor and ensure the safety of those placed under restraint.

George was, in the eyes of the law a petty criminal he did not deserve to be murdered. He has become a focal point for the historic ill treatment, racism suffered by the black community in the US

I can give you first hand eye witness testimony of this happening when a colleague of mine having both been out for dinner and a few beers were walking back to a hotel in MSP (the hewing) was stopped and searched for 0 reason whatsoever

You want to start a thread about the mistreatment of whites by the police have at it.

Pierre 16-10-2022 20:35

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
This was all discussed two years ago in the George Floyd thread, and I’m not seeing anything new.

jfman 16-10-2022 20:41

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137109)
This was all discussed two years ago in the George Floyd thread, and I’m not seeing anything new.

Spot on.

Jaymoss 16-10-2022 20:49

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137090)
It was the underlying premise of the post above. Obey the police.. or else…

Yeah obey the Police and walk away Disobey the Police and in the US risk death or any degree lower but the same principle applies here. The more you piss off a cop the more likely they are to nick you for something. Appease them and just go home

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137092)
Non compliance permits murder ?

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------



Was the restraint necessary for the period of time ? Officers have a duty of care to those detained. Where was the duty of care ?

none compliance escalates. He only died cuz he fought the law and the law won

He was a known violent criminal they were protecting themselves

jfman 16-10-2022 23:09

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137111)
He only died cuz he fought the law and the law won

Does the law get a 22 year jail term for murder every time it wins?

Quote:

He was a known violent criminal they were protecting themselves
A defence not accepted by the court.

Jaymoss 16-10-2022 23:16

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137118)
Does the law get a 22 year jail term for murder every time it wins?



A defence not accepted by the court.

Show trial to appease the BLM movement. There is no question what the cop did was OTT but as said by many many times if Floyd capitulated then he would not have been killed.

These people of all colours that deliberately provoke the Police just do not seem to realise it would all go better for them if they just chilled out. I do not think I have ever seen a group of cops suddenly decide not to arrest someone because they are fighting back or making the arrest difficult they are going to get nicked anyway, why make it worse? just yes sir no sir home for supper

jfman 16-10-2022 23:23

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
I’m not sure how much further he could have capitulated than dying to be honest.

The cop is rightfully a convicted murderer.

Dude111 16-10-2022 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman
Police officers have no authority to execute someone for disobedience.

No they sure dont!!

I saw a thread on City-data about BLM being exposed on the political base earlier but I still think its a good movement...

People of ANY COLOUR can be mean........

Ramrod 17-10-2022 11:25

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Did anyone see the cops bodycam footage? He wasn't actually kneeling on Floyds neck, he was on his upper back. The phone footage angle made it look like the cop was on his neck. The documentary also shows that Floyd had a lethal dose of drugs in him at the time of his arrest.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 11:52

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137124)
I’m not sure how much further he could have capitulated than dying to be honest.

The cop is rightfully a convicted murderer.

This totally shows your ignorance. Floyd had plenty of chance to capitulate before he ended up on the ground. Floyd made the choice to resist everything that happened after that choice was because of that fact

jfman 17-10-2022 13:00

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137147)
This totally shows your ignorance. Floyd had plenty of chance to capitulate before he ended up on the ground. Floyd made the choice to resist everything that happened after that choice was because of that fact

:rofl: my ignorance.

The cop - a habitual offender it appears - got 22 years that’s good enough for me. He’s a murderer.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 13:45

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137155)
:rofl: my ignorance.

The cop - a habitual offender it appears - got 22 years that’s good enough for me. He’s a murderer.

Are you deliberately avoiding the fact Floyd would be alive if he just complied?

A criminal - a habitual offender it appears - resists arrest and dies as a result. He was an idiot

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 13:55

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137174)
Are you deliberately avoiding the fact Floyd would be alive if he just complied?

A criminal - a habitual offender it appears - resists arrest and dies as a result. He was an idiot

After several minutes, Floyd stopped speaking.[14] For the last few minutes, he lay motionless and Officer Kueng found no pulse when urged to check.[20][21] Despite this, Chauvin ignored pleas from bystanders to lift his knee from Floyd's neck

So..... laying motionless and having no pulse indicates non compliance ?

cop: "stop resisting"
detainee: lies motionless and has no pulse
cop: "stop resisting" * keeps knee on neck.

Yuo, makes absolute perfect sense.

Chris 17-10-2022 14:24

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137174)
Are you deliberately avoiding the fact Floyd would be alive if he just complied?

A criminal - a habitual offender it appears - resists arrest and dies as a result. He was an idiot

Criminals often resist arrest in the UK. Strangely they don’t die.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 14:33

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36137186)
Criminals often resist arrest in the UK. Strangely they don’t die.

you are about 25 yards away from my point which is resisting in any way just makes things worse

As for the Floyd case I appear to have been misinformed and his only resistance appears to have just been getting him out of the car. After that he seemed compliant. It does look to be though that he was suffering a medical incident causing him to fall to the floor more than once. Whether his past record led Chauvin to treat him harshly I do not know or whether his illness had any role in his death either.

I got it wrong with case and hold my hands up

(an admission of being wrong and fessing up. Rare thing for this forum hahahaha)

Damien 17-10-2022 14:51

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Also with regards to the medical stuff there was been a criminal trial in America where the jury were not convinced it was anything other than the blocking of his airways.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 15:00

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137195)
Also with regards to the medical stuff there was been a criminal trial in America where the jury were not convinced it was anything other than the blocking of his airways.

I read somewhere (I will try to find it) that he was complaining about his breathing before he was even on the floor the second time.

---------- Post added at 14:00 ---------- Previous post was at 13:56 ----------



If you look at this video when they first sit him down he seems to be stumbling and then when down he slumps to the side. Later when he falls by the car in the distance they say at this point there was an ambulance called before Chauvin was even there. Something also happened by the car before he went to the floor. They mention possibly a struggle

Chris 17-10-2022 15:05

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137188)
you are about 25 yards away from my point which is resisting in any way just makes things worse

As for the Floyd case I appear to have been misinformed and his only resistance appears to have just been getting him out of the car. After that he seemed compliant. It does look to be though that he was suffering a medical incident causing him to fall to the floor more than once. Whether his past record led Chauvin to treat him harshly I do not know or whether his illness had any role in his death either.

I got it wrong with case and hold my hands up

(an admission of being wrong and fessing up. Rare thing for this forum hahahaha)

You’re absolutely right, resisting arrest invites greater use of force against you, in any jurisdiction. You’re not going to escape arrest so really there’s no point trying.

However, what I was trying to convey is the difference in policing culture between here and the USA. Whatever problems we have, we just don’t have the levels of casual brutality amongst rank and file officers that appears to be standard practice over there.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 15:21

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36137204)
You’re absolutely right, resisting arrest invites greater use of force against you, in any jurisdiction. You’re not going to escape arrest so really there’s no point trying.

However, what I was trying to convey is the difference in policing culture between here and the USA. Whatever problems we have, we just don’t have the levels of casual brutality amongst rank and file officers that appears to be standard practice over there.

Agreed

smallclone 17-10-2022 15:41

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137174)
Are you deliberately avoiding the fact Floyd would be alive if he just complied?

A criminal - a habitual offender it appears - resists arrest and dies as a result. He was an idiot

Just because he was an idiot, doesn't mean he deserved to be murdered.

jfman 17-10-2022 15:52

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137174)
Are you deliberately avoiding the fact Floyd would be alive if he just complied?

A criminal - a habitual offender it appears - resists arrest and dies as a result. He was an idiot

He’d also be alive if he wasn’t murdered in cold blood by a corrupt cop. What else he did or didn’t do that day is a red herring.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 15:53

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137217)
He’d also be alive if he wasn’t murdered in cold blood by a corrupt cop. What also he did it didn’t do that say is a red herring.

second sentence makes no sense

jfman 17-10-2022 15:54

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137218)
second sentence makes no sense

I’ve gone back to correct the predictive text errors.

What else he did or didn’t do that day is a red herring.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 16:05

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137219)
I’ve gone back to correct the predictive text errors.

What else he did or didn’t do that day is a red herring.

So he did not try to pass a fake note that started it all then ?

jfman 17-10-2022 16:22

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137222)
So he did not try to pass a fake note that started it all then ?

If someone hands me a dodgy tenner in one shop, and I try to spend it in another, I don’t deserve to be murdered by a corrupt cop.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 16:26

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137227)
If someone hands me a dodgy tenner in one shop, and I try to spend it in another, I don’t deserve to be murdered by a corrupt cop.


I am sure over the years many have felt like it though

Ramrod 17-10-2022 16:52

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137175)
After several minutes, Floyd stopped speaking.[14] For the last few minutes, he lay motionless and Officer Kueng found no pulse when urged to check.[20][21] Despite this, Chauvin ignored pleas from bystanders to lift his knee from Floyd's neck

Bodycam demonstrates that the officers knee wasn't on the neck.
Autopsy demonstrated no signs of lethal trauma.
Autopsy did demonstrate lethal levels of drugs in his system.

jfman 17-10-2022 16:58

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 36137237)
Bodycam demonstrates that the officers knee wasn't on the neck.
Autopsy demonstrated no signs of lethal trauma.
Autopsy did demonstrate lethal levels of drugs in his system.

Jury of his peers convicted an officer for murder.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 16:58

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 36137237)
Bodycam demonstrates that the officers knee wasn't on the neck.
Autopsy demonstrated no signs of lethal trauma.
Autopsy did demonstrate lethal levels of drugs in his system.


The Hennepin County medical examiner's office ruled Floyd's death was a homicide caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest" complicated by "restraint, and neck compression" while he was being subdued by police.

The official autopsy which btw is easily available online states ss above. You're talking weapons grade dribble

Ramrod 17-10-2022 17:05

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137240)
The Hennepin County medical examiner's office ruled Floyd's death was a homicide caused by "cardiopulmonary arrest" complicated by "restraint, and neck compression" while he was being subdued by police.

The official autopsy which btw is easily available online states ss above. You're talking weapons grade dribble

Watch the documentary. Then come back here :)

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137239)
Jury of his peers convicted an officer for murder.

I'm not claiming that they didn't. I'm just stating the facts as laid out in the documentary.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 17:09

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 36137241)
Watch the documentary. Then come back here :)

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

I'm not claiming that they didn't. I'm just stating the facts as laid out in the documentary.

No,

perhaps you could try to read this and maybe just maybe learn something

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...ng-of-america/

pip08456 17-10-2022 18:20

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137217)
He’d also be alive if he wasn’t murdered in cold blood by a corrupt cop. What else he did or didn’t do that day is a red herring.

I suggest you watch the documentary which has additional footage that clearly shows:

He resisted being put ine the police car Claiming to be claustrophobic (having been taken out of a car).

That he was demanding to be able to lie on the ground.

That the Officer didn't have his knee on his neck.

As well as:

That the autopsy found no evidence of airway restriction.

That he had taken a lethal combination of drugs.

Cold blooded murder? More like trial by media.

BTW there is an appeal pending.

Pierre 17-10-2022 18:35

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Regardless of who did what, Floyd or the police.

The singular bottom line is that Floyd did not have to die that day. It is as black and white as that.

Should the policeman have been convicted or what he should been convicted of are secondary.

pip08456 17-10-2022 18:47

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137271)
Regardless of who did what, Floyd or the police.

The singular bottom line is that Floyd did not have to die that day. It is as black and white as that.

Should the policeman have been convicted or what he should been convicted of are secondary.

I agree but thers is more to it than some on this forum are purporting. Looking at it objectively (with the additional evidence) it wasn't a case of police brutality.

Watch the documentary, it may change your view. You don't need to watch it to the end as it goes off onto what BLM have done with their funds as is immaterial.

Hugh 17-10-2022 18:52

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Pretty sure the documentary could not by any stretch of the imagination could be called "objective", as neither Candace Owens or the Daily Wire are…

jfman 17-10-2022 18:56

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36137265)
BTW there is an appeal pending.

I look forward to it being a costly exercise in failure.

Mythica 17-10-2022 18:59

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137271)
Regardless of who did what, Floyd or the police.

The singular bottom line is that Floyd did not have to die that day. It is as black and white as that.

Should the policeman have been convicted or what he should been convicted of are secondary.

He also didn't have to be a criminal. Dabble in that world and it changes your life for the worse, eventually.

Pierre 17-10-2022 19:03

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137279)
He also didn't have to be a criminal. Dabble in that world and it changes your life for the worse, eventually.

The fact he had a record is, again, totally secondary to what happened.

Ramrod 17-10-2022 19:10

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137243)
No,

perhaps you could try to read this and maybe just maybe learn something

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...ng-of-america/

I just did. It's interesting that the article says: "As doctors, we wish to highlight for the public that this framing of the circumstances surrounding Floyd’s death was, at best, a misinterpretation and, at worst, a deliberate obfuscation."
That's ironic as that is what the article actually does. It skirts around the issue of lethal levels of drugs in his system.
It states that his neck was knelt on when the bodycam footage shows that it wasn't.
It correctly states that "the autopsy of George Floyd “revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxiation” ", but then incorrectly says "taken from the criminal charge complaint against Chauvin"

I'm unimpressed by the article.
I'm even less impressed that you won't entertain watching the documentary. You might learn something....

Mythica 17-10-2022 19:10

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137282)
The fact he had a record is, again, totally secondary to what happened.

Well I've never been on the floor by Police and by magic, I don't have a criminal record. Whether you disagree or not, his choices in life is what started it all.

pip08456 17-10-2022 19:14

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36137276)
Pretty sure the documentary could not by any stretch of the imagination could be called "objective", as neither Candace Owens or the Daily Wire are…

Can the other media be? She offers a different take backed up with other evidence (especially video). Which sheds a different view of it, The truth is perhaps somewhere in the middle?

How can you judge until you've seen it? She's definately anti BLM and that is what the doc is really about but on the Floyd case she approaches it differently.

I do recomend you watching it and then making up your own mind.

Pierre 17-10-2022 19:29

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137285)
Well I've never been on the floor by Police and by magic, I don't have a criminal record. Whether you disagree or not, his choices in life is what started it all.

Not necessarily, the police I am sure stop and arrest many thousands of people each year that don’t have a previous record and are subsequently released without charge.

His life choices are totally incidental to what occurred.

Mythica 17-10-2022 19:46

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137294)
Not necessarily, the police I am sure stop and arrest many thousands of people each year that don’t have a previous record and are subsequently released without charge.

His life choices are totally incidental to what occurred.

And how many of those that don't have previous and were released without charge, end up on the floor with Police sat on you? Not saying it doesn't happen, but it happens a lot more when you have a criminal record.

His life choices are the exact reason such a thing occurred. If he were a law abiding citizen going through his day to day life, we wouldn't be here talking about it.

Pierre 17-10-2022 19:56

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137297)
And how many of those that don't have previous and were released without charge, end up on the floor with Police sat on you? Not saying it doesn't happen, but it happens a lot more when you have a criminal record.

You’ve obviously not been out and about in many provincial town centres at chucking out time.

Quote:

His life choices are the exact reason such a thing occurred. If he were a law abiding citizen going through his day to day life, we wouldn't be here talking about it.
He was 100% totally in the “care” of the police when he died.

That is the only place to be shining a light.

jfman 17-10-2022 20:09

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Spot on, Pierre.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 20:10

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Spot on indeed

Mythica 17-10-2022 20:17

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137298)
You’ve obviously not been out and about in many provincial town centres at chucking out time.



He was 100% totally in the “care” of the police when he died.

That is the only place to be shining a light.

Oh you mean those causing criminal damage, assaulting people or been verbally abusive? I've been out many times and not once have I been spoken to or sat on by the Police. Point still stands.

While choosing a life of being a criminal. If he wasn't a criminal, we wouldn't be talking about this as it wouldn't have happened.

jfman 17-10-2022 20:18

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137307)
Oh you mean those causing criminal damage, assaulting people or been verbally abusive? I've been out many times and not once have I been spoken to or sat on by the Police. Point still stands.

While choosing a life of being a criminal. If he wasn't a criminal, we wouldn't be talking about this as it wouldn't have happened.

Similarly if the murderer phoned in sick that day we wouldn’t be talking about it.

Paul 17-10-2022 20:29

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
You love that word, despite the fact that "Murder" requires the death to be deliberate or pre-planned. This was neither.

Mythica 17-10-2022 20:30

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137308)
Similarly if the murderer phoned in sick that day we wouldn’t be talking about it.

Which came first, the murderer or the criminal?

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 20:36

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36137313)
You love that word, despite the fact that "Murder" requires the death to be deliberate or pre-planned. This was neither.

In the U.K. but this is US law where

Second-degree murder is generally either:
An unplanned, intentional killing (reacting in the heat of the moment when angry)
A death caused by a reckless disregard for human life

He was murdered , Derek Chauvin was convicted of 2nd degree murder and also 3rd degree murder and something else which I can’t remember immediately

jfman 17-10-2022 20:40

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137315)
Which came first, the murderer or the criminal?

If only the criminal justice system had the death penalty for a counterfeit twenty.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137318)
In the U.K. but this is US law where

Second-degree murder is generally either:
An unplanned, intentional killing (reacting in the heat of the moment when angry)
A death caused by a reckless disregard for human life

He was murdered , Derek Chauvin was convicted of 2nd degree murder and also 3rd degree murder and something else which I can’t remember immediately

Indeed, if this was the UK and he was convinced using different legal terminology I’d use that. However as things stand he’s a convicted murderer.

Mythica 17-10-2022 21:00

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137321)
If only the criminal justice system had the death penalty for a counterfeit twenty.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------



Indeed, if this was the UK and he was convinced using different legal terminology I’d use that. However as things stand he’s a convicted murderer.

That is changing the subject. He got to where he is now due to being a criminal.

jfman 17-10-2022 21:02

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137330)
That is changing the subject. He got to where he is now due to being a criminal.

He got to where he is now because he was murdered by a police officer.

Pierre 17-10-2022 21:06

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137307)
Oh you mean those causing criminal damage, assaulting people or been verbally abusive? I've been out many times and not once have I been spoken to or sat on by the Police. Point still stands.

No it doesn’t because your “point” is based entirely on hypothetics and not facts.

Should’ve, would’ve, could’ve are totally meaningless in regards to what happened in this case.

The fact, and the only fact that matters, is that he died whilst being 100% in the care of the police.

It may have been quite possible that the police did nothing wrong to cause his death whilst he was in their custody.

That question has been answered in a court.

It really is that simple.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 21:07

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137331)
He got to where he is now because he was murdered by a police officer.

hmmmm unforeseen circumstances. Do we know if he knew the $20 was fake or did he not? because this very much is the chicken and the egg. If he knew it was fake then the start of the events began with is choice to try and pass it off. If he did not know it was fake then the events began with the clerks choice to call the cops

jfman 17-10-2022 21:11

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137334)
hmmmm unforeseen circumstances. Do we know if he knew the $20 was fake or did he not? because this very much is the chicken and the egg. If he knew it was fake then the start of the events began with is choice to try and pass it off. If he did not know it was fake then the events began with the clerks choice to call the cops

And nobody in either circumstance, in a civilised society, should be murdered by the police.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 21:31

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137337)
And nobody in either circumstance, in a civilised society, should be murdered by the police.

In a civilised society no one should be dealing cocaine or holding a woman at gunpoint let alone passing of forged currency

Pierre 17-10-2022 21:36

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137340)
In a civilised society no one should be dealing cocaine or holding a woman at gunpoint let alone passing of forged currency

No one would dispute that, but it’s totally irrelevant.

Mythica 17-10-2022 21:37

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137331)
He got to where he is now because he was murdered by a police officer.

Because he was a criminal. You can't beat around the bush. Excessive force, yes/no, that's not my argument. He is where he is because he was a criminal and choose a criminal lifestyle.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 21:38

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137341)
No one would dispute that, but it’s totally irrelevant.

The relevance is if he did not do those things he would not have served time and may well not have had the $20 to pass on.

A series of choices that lead to the end event on both sides

Mythica 17-10-2022 21:42

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137332)
No it doesn’t because your “point” is based entirely on hypothetics and not facts.

Should’ve, would’ve, could’ve are totally meaningless in regards to what happened in this case.

The fact, and the only fact that matters, is that he died whilst being 100% in the care of the police.

It may have been quite possible that the police did nothing wrong to cause his death whilst he was in their custody.

That question has been answered in a court.

It really is that simple.

Well it does though doesn't it. If he hadn't of choose a criminal lifestyle, he'd most likely still be alive. That's a very major talking point in the argument. He died in the hands of Police care, because of his previous actions that put him where he was in life.

---------- Post added at 20:42 ---------- Previous post was at 20:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137337)
And nobody in either circumstance, in a civilised society, should be murdered by the police.

And nobody, in a civilised society should be a criminal.

Pierre 17-10-2022 21:43

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137342)
Because he was a criminal. You can't beat around the bush. Excessive force, yes/no, that's not my argument. He is where he is because he was a criminal and choose a criminal lifestyle.

As seen as your argument is totally based in hypotheticals.

What would your position be if he wasn’t a criminal, and died in police custody in exactly the same way?

What would your position be if he had a mental impairment/learning difficulties, and the police ( due to his size) restrained him and he died in exactly the same way.

What would be your view of the polices’ actions?

jfman 17-10-2022 21:45

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137344)
And nobody, in a civilised society should be a criminal.

Indeed, that’s why we have judicial systems that prosecute crimes and administer penalties as appropriate.

Pierre 17-10-2022 21:46

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137344)
He died in the hands of Police care, because of his previous actions that put him where he was in life.

So anyone, absolutely anyone that finds themselves in the temporary care of the police, for whatever reason are dispensable and can be killed with impunity.


Got it!

Mythica 17-10-2022 21:47

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137347)
As seen as your argument is totally based in hypotheticals.

What would your position be if he wasn’t a criminal, and died in police custody in exactly the same way?

What would your position be if he had a mental impairment/learning difficulties, and the police ( due to his size) restrained him and he died in exactly the same way.

What would be your view of the polices’ actions?

Ermmm, what hypotheticals have I used?

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 21:47

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137347)
As seen as your argument is totally based in hypotheticals.

What would your position be if he wasn’t a criminal, and died in police custody in exactly the same way?

What would your position be if he had a mental impairment/learning difficulties, and the police ( due to his size) restrained him and he died in exactly the same way.

What would be your view of the polices’ actions?

I do not think anyone has condoned the Police actions in this thread. Some have just put across the maybe George Floyd was not a totally innocent victim

Mythica 17-10-2022 21:48

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137349)
So anyone, absolutely anyone that finds themselves in the temporary care of the police, for whatever reason are dispensable and can be killed with impunity.


Got it!

If you've made that up to what I've said, then that's your problem. Just to be clear, I've not once said that.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 21:49

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137344)
Well it does though doesn't it. If he hadn't of choose a criminal lifestyle, he'd most likely still be alive. That's a very major talking point in the argument. He died in the hands of Police care, because of his previous actions that put him where he was in life.

---------- Post added at 20:42 ---------- Previous post was at 20:40 ----------



And nobody, in a civilised society should be a criminal.

The police have a legal duty of care and responsibility to those who they detain and are in their custody the fact you don’t think those rights extend to those with previous convictions is neither here nor there

Pierre 17-10-2022 21:51

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137351)
I do not think anyone has condoned the Police actions in this thread. Some have just put across the maybe George Floyd was not a totally innocent victim

But that is irrelevant, because many, many people that are totally innocent may find themselves in the temporary care of the police and the police must treat everyone in their care the same.

He may have been whatever he was, but as I say earlier if it was a case of mistaken identity and he was completely innocent, why would that in any way be a material difference in what happened?

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137352)
If you've made that up to what I've said, then that's your problem. Just to be clear, I've not once said that.

Seems pretty close to me!

Mythica 17-10-2022 21:53

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137353)
The police have a legal duty of care and responsibility to those who they detain and are in their custody the fact you don’t think those rights extend to those with previous convictions is neither here nor there

Did I say that?

Or did I say he got to where he is now due to his own lifestyle choices.

---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137354)
But that is irrelevant, because many, many people that are totally innocent may find themselves in the temporary care of the police and the police must treat everyone in their care the same.

He may have been whatever he was, but as I say earlier if it was a case of mistaken identity and he was completely innocent, why would that in any way be a material difference in what happened?

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:51 ----------



Seems pretty close to me!

Seems pretty close and that is what you said are two completely different things, so I would kindly ask you withdraw your comment.

Pierre 17-10-2022 21:54

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137356)
Did I say that?

Or did I say he got to where he is now due to his own lifestyle choices.

If he’d overdosed I may agree with that statement, but he was killed by a 3rd party with duty not to kill him.

So that doesn’t fly, at all.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 21:55

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137356)
Did I say that?

Or did I say he got to where he is now due to his own lifestyle choices.

Yes, you did say exactly that.

Had the hennepin police exercised their legal responsibilities he would still be alive and that’s all there is to it.

Pierre 17-10-2022 21:55

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137356)
Did I say that?

Or did I say he got to where he is now due to his own lifestyle choices.

---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------



Seems pretty close and that is what you said are two completely different things, so I would kindly ask you withdraw your comment.

No

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 22:01

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137354)
But that is irrelevant, because many, many people that are totally innocent may find themselves in the temporary care of the police and the police must treat everyone in their care the same.

He may have been whatever he was, but as I say earlier if it was a case of mistaken identity and he was completely innocent, why would that in any way be a material difference in what happened?


Seems pretty close to me!

But is was not a case of mistaken identity was it? Also from what I can find out it is unknown if the cops knew his rap sheet so there is a chance they knew he could be a risk. It is all conjecture. No he should not have died but also no he should not have been a criminal

Mythica 17-10-2022 22:09

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137359)
If he’d overdosed I may agree with that statement, but he was killed by a 3rd party with duty not to kill him.

So that doesn’t fly, at all.

It does fly, he put himself in that position due to his lifestyle choices.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137361)
No

So you like putting words into people's mouth and when told it was incorrect, you don't care and carry on regardless.

---------- Post added at 21:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137360)
Yes, you did say exactly that.

Had the hennepin police exercised their legal responsibilities he would still be alive and that’s all there is to it.

No I never, at all.

Had George Floyd not been a criminal, he would still be alive.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 22:13

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137370)
It does fly, he put himself in that position due to his lifestyle choices.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------



So you like putting words into people's mouth and when told it was incorrect, you don't care and carry on regardless.

---------- Post added at 21:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:07 ----------



No I never, at all.

Had George Floyd not been a criminal, he would still be alive.

Yes, yes you did. he would be alive because regardless of if he was a criminal or not he is entitled to be provided with the legally required care whilst being detained. Funnily enough this does not include being murdered

Your focus is wrong

Mythica 17-10-2022 22:24

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137376)
Yes, yes you did. he would be alive because regardless of if he was a criminal or not he is entitled to be provided with the legally required care whilst being detained. Funnily enough this does not include being murdered

Your focus is wrong

No I never, please stop putting words into my mouth that I have not said.

If he wasn't a criminal, he wouldn't of needed the care of the Police that day, his lifestyle choice put him in that position in the first instance.

My focus is what I want my focus to be. He was a criminal and put himself in the position he was in. Had he not been a criminal in the first instance, we wouldn't be here talking about it.

jfman 17-10-2022 22:28

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
And as we say in Scotland if your auntie had baws she’d be your uncle.

Pierre 17-10-2022 22:29

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137370)
It does fly, he put himself in that position due to his lifestyle choices.

I understand you point of personal responsibility, but it is irrelevant in this case, as he was detained and in the care of some one else.

If someone had a bad lifestyle and bad choices, a drug addict, wife beater, serial criminal and he ended up in hospital due to complications with his drug use.

He would have been fine, just needed 48hrs in hospital and he would have walked out, he may have got clean and gone on to be a good citizen but the doctor made an error he should been able to avoid as a professional and as someone that is trusted to care for.

He administered a lethal dose of anaesthetic and killed him.

Should that doctor be prosecuted?

GrimUpNorth 17-10-2022 22:29

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
So what type of criminal record do you guys think justifies not coming home again? Just wondering what crimes put you in the don't deserve to live category?

Ramrod 17-10-2022 22:34

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137359)
If he’d overdosed I may agree with that statement, but he was killed by a 3rd party with duty not to kill him.

It appears that he did overdose. That and the fact that he had cardiomegaly did it for him.

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36137384)
So what type of criminal record do you guys think justifies not coming home again? Just wondering what crimes put you in the don't deserve to live category?

lol, we've seen how some put Tory voters into that category.

Mythica 17-10-2022 22:48

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137383)
I understand you point of personal responsibility, but it is irrelevant in this case, as he was detained and in the care of some one else.

If someone had a bad lifestyle and bad choices, a drug addict, wife beater, serial criminal and he ended up in hospital due to complications with his drug use.

He would have been fine, just needed 48hrs in hospital and he would have walked out, he may have got clean and gone on to be a good citizen but the doctor made an error he should been able to avoid as a professional and as someone that is trusted to care for.

He administered a lethal dose of anaesthetic and killed him.

Should that doctor be prosecuted?

I'm not playing what ifs and random scenarios

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36137384)
So what type of criminal record do you guys think justifies not coming home again? Just wondering what crimes put you in the don't deserve to live category?

I didn't say he didn't deserve to live, I'm saying he put himself in that position due to his lifestyle choices.

Pierre 17-10-2022 23:26

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36137390)
I'm not playing what ifs and random scenarios.

I have been crushed by the colossal weight of irony in that post, so much so, I can’t breathe.

jfman 17-10-2022 23:32

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137400)
I have been crushed by the colossal weight of irony in that post, so much so, I can’t breathe.

:rofl:

Mythica 18-10-2022 01:23

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137400)
I have been crushed by the colossal weight of irony in that post, so much so, I can’t breathe.

So come on, explain?

Pierre 18-10-2022 01:36

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
If I have to, jfman will stop laughing and I don’t want that to happen.

Seriously, for you to ask that, you need to re-evaluate your recent posts and apply a self critical irony filter.


You’ll work it out.

1andrew1 18-10-2022 01:46

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137400)
I have been crushed by the colossal weight of irony in that post, so much so, I can’t breathe.

:D

Afraid I'm also agreeing with you on this point, Pierre.

Mythica 18-10-2022 11:15

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137420)
If I have to, jfman will stop laughing and I don’t want that to happen.

Seriously, for you to ask that, you need to re-evaluate your recent posts and apply a self critical irony filter.


You’ll work it out.

Or to put it in shorter words, you can't.

Ramrod 19-10-2022 23:50

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
No one has mentioned that the BLM leaders bought mansions, gave away millions to friends and family and haven't filed any tax returns.....:D

TheDaddy 20-10-2022 01:07

Re: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold: George Floyd and the Rise of BLM
 
Talk of Kanye West being sued for 250 million for saying Floyd died of a drug overdose rather than due to someones knee being in his neck


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