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-   -   RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33711123)

Mick 20-06-2022 19:14

RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
https://news.sky.com/story/biggest-r...-fail-12637442

Quote:

The biggest rail strike in three decades is expected go ahead after last-ditch talks failed, the RMT union said.

A walkout by 40,000 workers on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday will cause "total misery", according to Transport Secretary Grant Shapps.

Mr Shapps said the strike was "totally wrong" and would inconvenience millions - including those like his own daughter who are taking exams.

Paul 20-06-2022 19:15

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
I could not tell you what year I last used a train, far too expensive.

Mr K 20-06-2022 19:20

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125776)

The Government want this strike, anything in the news to divert attention from the shambles they've made of the country.
Nurses and Teachers will be the next targets. Anyone providing public services is the enemy of State Boris.

Mick 20-06-2022 19:24

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36125779)
The Government want this strike, anything in the news to divert attention from the shambles they've made of the country.
Nurses and Teachers will be the next targets. Anyone providing public services is the enemy of State Boris.

So you don’t think £59,000 per year is a good salary for rail workers?

Any increase would put costs back on to the commuter and as Paul highlighted above, it’s already expensive.

nomadking 20-06-2022 19:44

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
The alternative is that the Government gives in to every set of demands. Just think what the demands would be, if that happened?:shocked:

It seems absurd that a Union can call a strike, simply because they have built up a strike fund. There is little financial penalty for the strikers.

GrimUpNorth 20-06-2022 19:54

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125782)
So you don’t think £59,000 per year is a good salary for rail workers?

Any increase would put costs back on to the commuter and as Paul highlighted above, it’s already expensive.

I'm sure the thousands of rail workers who earn considerably less than £59,000 will agree with you.

Hugh 20-06-2022 20:08

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125782)
So you don’t think £59,000 per year is a good salary for rail workers?

Any increase would put costs back on to the commuter and as Paul highlighted above, it’s already expensive.

It’s the RMT that are on strike - train drivers (in ASLEF) earn that salary.

OLD BOY 20-06-2022 20:11

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36125779)
The Government want this strike, anything in the news to divert attention from the shambles they've made of the country.
Nurses and Teachers will be the next targets. Anyone providing public services is the enemy of State Boris.

You are amazing, Mr K. The rail unions call a strike on false pretences and say the government should get involved. The RMT has already said that it will not negotiate with a Conservative government. What is more, the appropriate people for the unions to negotiate with are the employers.

The NHS workers and teachers are now threatening to take strike action alongside the rail workers and you describe them as ‘the next targets’ as if they were the victims!

The funny thing is, many people think your posts are just jokey, but sometimes I think you really believe this stuff. :D

Chris 20-06-2022 20:13

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36125779)
The Government want this strike, anything in the news to divert attention from the shambles they've made of the country.
Nurses and Teachers will be the next targets. Anyone providing public services is the enemy of State Boris.

Pretty daft of the wider Labour movement to fall into their trap then isn’t it … :rolleyes:

TheDaddy 20-06-2022 20:14

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36125786)
The alternative is that the Government gives in to every set of demands. Just think what the demands would be, if that happened?:shocked:

It seems absurd that a Union can call a strike, simply because they have built up a strike fund. There is little financial penalty for the strikers.

Yeah that's the reason people voted to strike, with a far greater percentage of the vote than this government was returned with btw because they have built up a strike fund :rolleyes:

Mick 20-06-2022 20:15

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36125788)
I'm sure the thousands of rail workers who earn considerably less than £59,000 will agree with you.

My heart doesn’t bleed for them. They want to try working in the Healthcare industry as it is now, utterly decimated, far harder job for significantly less pay and we can’t strike for obvious reasons. :td:

Hugh 20-06-2022 20:18

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36125792)
You are amazing, Mr K. The rail unions call a strike on false pretences and say the government should get involved. The RMT has already said that it will not negotiate with a Conservative government. What is more, the appropriate people for the unions to negotiate with are the employers.

The NHS workers and teachers are now threatening to take strike action alongside the rail workers and you describe them as ‘the next targets’ as if they were the victims!

The funny thing is, many people think your posts are just jokey, but sometimes I think you really believe this stuff. :D

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-call...g-with-shapps/

Quote:

15 June 2022

RMT Press Office:

Rail union RMT has called for a face-to-face meeting with Transport Secretary Grant Shapps and Chancellor Rishi Sunak to avert strike action on the rail network next week.

The railways will be shut down for 3 days on Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, when workers from Network Rail and 13 train operating companies take to picket lines across the country in a row over pay and job losses.

In a letter to Grant Shapps, RMT general secretary Mick Lynch says it has become clear that the Treasury is "calling the shots" and is not allowing rail employers to reach a negotiated settlement with the union.

Mr Lynch writes: "I am writing to seek an urgent meeting with the government, without any pre-conditions, to discuss the national rail disputes prior to the planned strike action next week and I would be grateful if this could be arranged without delay. As you will be aware both this year and last year, meetings have taken place under the Rail Industry Recovery Group (RIRG).

nomadking 20-06-2022 20:33

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36125795)
Yeah that's the reason people voted to strike, with a far greater percentage of the vote than this government was returned with btw because they have built up a strike fund :rolleyes:

If there was no strike fund, they would have to think twice, . If there was little money in the strike fund, would the unions be attempting anything?

If one side has no losses, then that is a one-sided battle.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:32 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36125797)

The government are not the employers.

Chris 20-06-2022 20:37

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36125797)

That’s a pretty brazen attempt to turn this into a 1970s style bust up between Tory ministers and Labour-affiliated unions. The stuff about the RIRG is irrelevant. The question is whether government ministers should intervene directly in pay bargaining, not whether ministers and union leaders do or do not meet face to face on principle.

1andrew1 20-06-2022 21:11

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36125803)
That’s a pretty brazen attempt to turn this into a 1970s style bust up between Tory ministers and Labour-affiliated unions. The stuff about the RIRG is irrelevant. The question is whether government ministers should intervene directly in pay bargaining, not whether ministers and union leaders do or do not meet face to face on principle.

I've forgotten how public sector disputes used to get resolved. As Network Rail is publicly owned and funded, I imagine that the government may have to get involved if more cash is involved.

Damien 20-06-2022 21:13

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125796)
My heart doesn’t bleed for them. They want to try working in the Healthcare industry as it is now, utterly decimated, far harder job for significantly less pay and we can’t strike for obvious reasons. :td:

That is also unfair though and they're taking more advantage of you because you can't strike as easily. Why shouldn't you get a better pay rise after years of below-inflation pay rises, being on the front line of COVID and now having to contend with even further inflation?

I don't know much about the issue RMT has. I guess it's the point of a union to get their members better terms and conditions. Stike action is penalising some of those who can't work from home though and those tend to be people on lower-paid (retail workers, cleaners, manual workers and so on).

Not sure if it's connected but I do know the Government has been playing games with TFL's budget. TFL is obviously underwater after COVID and they keep doing emergency budgets.

GrimUpNorth 20-06-2022 21:19

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125796)
My heart doesn’t bleed for them. They want to try working in the Healthcare industry as it is now, utterly decimated, far harder job for significantly less pay and we can’t strike for obvious reasons. :td:

Putting my Conservative hat on, people in healthcare should look to changing sectors if their not happy with their lot. Maybe consider working for the railways, as you seem to consider it a much easier and better paid profession to be in. I'm sure the solitary gaurd on the last train Friday/Saturday night would agree with you.

Chris 20-06-2022 21:29

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36125806)
I've forgotten how public sector disputes used to get resolved. As Network Rail is publicly owned and funded, I imagine that the government may have to get involved if more cash is involved.

Network Rail isn’t British Rail. The British Railways Board was entirely appointed by government, which continually watched over their shoulders (frequently making things worse in the process). Network Rail is state owned but operates at arm’s length. It isn’t a government department and there is no role for government ministers in its management, even when it comes to pay bargaining. It is regulated by the Office of Rail and Road which while it’s a government department, does not itself have a minister running it so as to distance it from political interference. The operation of the railways has been deliberately designed so as not to make them a daily political issue. This of course is exactly why the RMT, with all the subtlety of a half-brick, is trying to make it into one. The trade union movement is spoiling for a fight with a Tory government and the RMT thinks it is in with a chance here.

Direct political influence over the railway occurs at the strategic level - new infrastructure, long-term agreed operational goals, etc. pay bargaining isn’t that.

Mr K 20-06-2022 22:25

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125796)
My heart doesn’t bleed for them. They want to try working in the Healthcare industry as it is now, utterly decimated, far harder job for significantly less pay and we can’t strike for obvious reasons. :td:

Who utterly decimated the healthcare industry? Do you think Boris will be fighting to give you a decent pay rise Mick? One that would at least keep up with inflation, which isn't a pay rise at all ...
They've cocked up the economy and the country.

Mick 20-06-2022 22:36

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36125831)
Who utterly decimated the healthcare industry? Do you think Boris will be fighting to give you a decent pay rise Mick? One that would at least keep up with inflation, which isn't a pay rise at all ...
They've cocked up the economy and the country.

I can put my hand on my heart and say how utterly annoyed I am with the Conservatives for how they ran and continue to run, our health industry in to the ground.

The money they spent on Test and trace, £36 Billion, and it was a disorganised agency, they could open up several hospitals, or keep investing in the skilled workforce for years to come.

BenMcr 21-06-2022 09:38

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125796)
My heart doesn’t bleed for them. They want to try working in the Healthcare industry as it is now, utterly decimated, far harder job for significantly less pay and we can’t strike for obvious reasons. :td:

There is nothing legally stopping those in the healthcare industry from striking as far as I'm aware - although the manner of the strikes would be different I'd think to ensure continued support and care for those needing healthcare services.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...se/ar-BB1egqau

Quote:

Matt Hancock defends 1pc increase to nurses pay as they threaten to strike
https://www.theguardian.com/business...er-covid-debts

Quote:

Pharmacists in England considering strike action over Covid debts

Industry association says chancellor must intervene to waive repayment of £370m of government loans
And back in 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...doctors-strike

Quote:

When will the five-day strikes happen?
The BMA announced that junior doctors will strike from 12 to 16 September, in a significant escalation in their dispute with the government over a proposed new contract. The walkout will occur between 8am and 5pm on those days, so technically it is not five-day strike but a strike on five consecutive days. There are also walkouts proposed for 5, 6, 7, 10 and 11 October, 14-18 November and 5-9 December

tweetiepooh 21-06-2022 09:54

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
I used to work in the NHS, poor pay but safe job, great pension, pay increments as well as pay rises, some perks offered by companies to NHS staff and the knowledge you were helping people.
Now they've mucked up the pensions and many other factors that make the lower pay more of a burden. I know people in healthcare now who are fed up but still love their jobs and taking care of people, even if indirectly (IT etc).
But I can't believe all the wastage that was present when I was in the NHS has all been got rid of, it's the same as always, if something needs doing employ more admin types to form a committee and never actually get anything done.


At the moment though we are in an inflationary cycle and if wages are kept in control that will cause things to cycle upwards even faster. I don't know how it can be done, especially with fuel price rises, but we need to keep costs down, including wages, and to protect the lower paid and less well off without so impacting the middle classes that they stop the spending they can make. (The very rich will always find a way to be OK.)

Maggy 21-06-2022 10:55

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
I support all those 'vital' workers who we all clapped for when asked to by the government and then got rewarded with a totally useless pay increase that got eaten up by the recent surge in prices for fuel.I still support them now they are in danger of being shafted by the SAME government when asking for a wage increase that will allow them to deal with surging costs in living and travel costs.

Mick 21-06-2022 11:15

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36125851)
There is nothing legally stopping those in the healthcare industry from striking as far as I'm aware - although the manner of the strikes would be different I'd think to ensure continued support and care for those needing healthcare services.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...se/ar-BB1egqau



https://www.theguardian.com/business...er-covid-debts



And back in 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...doctors-strike

I get the legal argument but it’d be a moral ethical risk. Striking health workers would put thousands of lives a day at risk, public would soon lose respect and stop backing us.

1andrew1 21-06-2022 11:45

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125863)
I get the legal argument but it’d be a moral ethical risk. Striking health workers would put thousands of lives a day at risk, public would soon lose respect and stop backing us.

I get the moral and ethical dilemma which I'm sure would dissuade many from taking part in strike action.

I'm less sure of the benefit of the public support as that has not fed through into a pay rise.

Mick 21-06-2022 12:10

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
From Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/train-str...ption-12637169

This strike is about safety more than pay, Network Rail worker tells Sky News

A Network Rail employee who "works on the infrastructure daily" has been in touch to counter what he suggests are widespread misconceptions about the cause of this week's strikes.

The worker, who provided his name to Sky News but asked to remain anonymous, said the action was not primarily being driven by pay.

"The issue that I have is nothing to do with money," he said.
"Every reporter and news station across the country is just focusing on pay - this strike is mainly about safety. Network Rail want to cut 2,000 operative jobs just on my route alone.

"They want all operatives across the country to be gone and replaced with a job role called assistant technician.

"The duties of this role would include travelling to various locations throughout the country in your own vehicle, therefore using more fuel and having to change your insurance policy to allow for business use, therefore costing the worker more money.

"They also want to bring in cross-discipline working so they want staff to be able to work with various departments using skills that people have mastered over years of experience.

"However, they expect us to do their highly skilled work even though we are not trained to do the task.

"Network Rail wants to attack our pension scheme and make us work more weekends with reduced rest periods between shifts, therefore making staff more fatigued and increasing the risk of serious injury."

The worker went on to criticise Andrew Haines, Network Rail's chief executive.

"This is the man that claims we need to save money as the company has no money to give us a pay rise, while he sits there on his £635,000-a-year job," he said.

The latest available figures indicated Mr Haines's salary was between £585,000 and £589,999 annually.


You can actually start to understand why these strikes are on when a CEO comfortably sits on more than half a million pound salary.

mrmistoffelees 21-06-2022 12:21

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125871)
From Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/train-str...ption-12637169

This strike is about safety more than pay, Network Rail worker tells Sky News

A Network Rail employee who "works on the infrastructure daily" has been in touch to counter what he suggests are widespread misconceptions about the cause of this week's strikes.

The worker, who provided his name to Sky News but asked to remain anonymous, said the action was not primarily being driven by pay.

"The issue that I have is nothing to do with money," he said.
"Every reporter and news station across the country is just focusing on pay - this strike is mainly about safety. Network Rail want to cut 2,000 operative jobs just on my route alone.

"They want all operatives across the country to be gone and replaced with a job role called assistant technician.

"The duties of this role would include travelling to various locations throughout the country in your own vehicle, therefore using more fuel and having to change your insurance policy to allow for business use, therefore costing the worker more money.

"They also want to bring in cross-discipline working so they want staff to be able to work with various departments using skills that people have mastered over years of experience.

"However, they expect us to do their highly skilled work even though we are not trained to do the task.

"Network Rail wants to attack our pension scheme and make us work more weekends with reduced rest periods between shifts, therefore making staff more fatigued and increasing the risk of serious injury."

The worker went on to criticise Andrew Haines, Network Rail's chief executive.

"This is the man that claims we need to save money as the company has no money to give us a pay rise, while he sits there on his £635,000-a-year job," he said.

The latest available figures indicated Mr Haines's salary was between £585,000 and £589,999 annually.


You can actually start to understand why these strikes are on when a CEO comfortably sits on more than half a million pound salary.

To add to this, there was something i saw on twitter from a lady who works as a platform attendant, I can't remember the exact words were that were user, but it was along the lines of

what people see is me standing on the platform blowing a whilstle, and they think it looks easy.

What they don't see

supporting a domestic abuse sufferer
waiting with an ill patient because an ambulance has been delayed
chasing after and sitting on suicidal kids trying to throw themselves on the lines.

The above had happened all in the past six weeks....

Mick 21-06-2022 12:50

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
BREAKING: Labour Party bans front bench from joining Rail strike picket lines according to reports. - GB News.

BenMcr 21-06-2022 13:12

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125875)
BREAKING: Labour Party bans front bench from joining Rail strike picket lines according to reports. - GB News.

That broke last night, hasn't really worked though

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2105709.html

Quote:

Two frontbench Labour MPs have defied an order from Sir Keir Starmer not to join striking rail workers on the picket line in the biggest industrial action on the network for three decades.

Mick 21-06-2022 13:17

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Which two Labour front benchers?

Link is behind a paywall.

BenMcr 21-06-2022 13:24

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125878)
Which two Labour front benchers?

Link is behind a paywall.

Quote:

Kate Osborne, a parliamentary aide to shadow Northern Ireland secretary Peter Kyle, joined striking workers in Bromley,
Quote:

Navendu Mishra — an opposition whip — also posted a photograph alongside striking workers on Tuesday morning,
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...08ba6b54b30ea3

Quote:

Anas Sarwar, Diane Abbott and Zarah Sultana are the latest Labour leaders to join picket lines in solidarity with RMT union members

pip08456 21-06-2022 13:24

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125878)
Which two Labour front benchers?

Link is behind a paywall.

Here you go Mick.

Quote:

But Kate Osborne, a parliamentary aide to shadow Northern Ireland secretary Peter Kyle, joined striking workers in Bromley, south-east London, saying: “I’m a trade unionist, I will always stand on the side of the workers.”

Navendu Mishra — an opposition whip — also posted a photograph alongside striking workers on Tuesday morning, saying: “This treacherous government has underfunded & mismanaged our public transport network for more than a decade.

Mick 21-06-2022 15:53

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Thanks Pip, Ben.

Britons tend to oppose the rail workers strikes taking place this week

All Britons
Support 37% / Oppose 45%

Con voters
Support 18% / Oppose 72%

Lab voters
Support 65% / Oppose 18%

Via YouGov.

Hom3r 21-06-2022 16:49

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
I know several people who will have to take unpaid leave this week as their trains ain't running.


My cousin is lucky as he would normally go 1st class (he's a snob, and his company pays for it), he will just drive to his work as he has a parking space and again his work pay all his costs etc.

papa smurf 21-06-2022 17:02

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Every news outlet i have watched today has shown mick lynch to be an argumentative a hole, i would not negotiate with him.

1andrew1 21-06-2022 17:11

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36125889)
Every news outlet i have watched today has shown mick lynch to be an argumentative a hole, i would not negotiate with him.

This is quite interesting background on the RMT leadership.
Quote:

There may be some light at the end of the tunnel. Steve Hedley, the long-standing RMT Assistant General Secretary, has been eased out and several moderates elected to the executive committee. Mick Lynch, the general secretary who beat Hedley in the election to replace Mick Cash, is a moderate though his hand is often forced by the hardliners.

As one former employee says: “The union is permanently split between the hardliners, who want to overthrow the Government, and the moderates, known as the Broad Left, who want it to be a normal trade union representing its members. Fortunately, the moderates seem to be gaining ground.”

Moreover, the union itself is in a mess. The RMT has been riven by an internal dispute over the redundancy of one of its staff which forced the abandonment of its annual conference last year and its headquarters have been regularly picketed with activists refusing to work there, and calling those who do so “scabs”.
https://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/20...des-interests/

BenMcr 21-06-2022 17:37

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36125885)
Thanks Pip, Ben.

Britons tend to oppose the rail workers strikes taking place this week

All Britons
Support 37% / Oppose 45%

Con voters
Support 18% / Oppose 72%

Lab voters
Support 65% / Oppose 18%

Via YouGov.

That's a bit different to this one
https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/st...77133352259584

Quote:

Savanta ComRes
@SavantaComRes

36m
New poll

A majority of UK adults say that the rail strikes this week are 'justified'.

Justified - 58%
Unjustified - 34%

Julian 21-06-2022 17:55

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36125893)

Wow change the question, get a different answer shock horror :dunce:

Maggy 21-06-2022 17:56

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Everybody in the public sector and transport stepped up during the pandemic. They all deserve to be treated with respect when seeking to ensure that they can pay their way after the huge increases across the board for food,fuel and other daily expenses that the entire country is currently facing. Everyone who did what was asked of them during the past 2 years deserve that consideration irrespective of what industry they work for.

papa smurf 21-06-2022 18:01

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Angela Rayner goes head to head with Keir Starmer and fully backs union walk out

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...t-rail-strikes

Mad Max 21-06-2022 20:47

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36125889)
Every news outlet i have watched today has shown mick lynch to be an argumentative a hole, i would not negotiate with him.

Well, when you're on £124K a year salary you can act like that if you want, maybe he could donate some of his mega bucks to the cause...:rolleyes:

jonbxx 22-06-2022 09:02

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36125917)
Well, when you're on £124K a year salary you can act like that if you want, maybe he could donate some of his mega bucks to the cause...:rolleyes:

With 83,000 members, I am sure that the £1.49 per member will go a long way

Hugh 22-06-2022 09:45

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36125917)
Well, when you're on £124K a year salary you can act like that if you want, maybe he could donate some of his mega bucks to the cause...:rolleyes:


His salary is £89,962, with Employers' NI contributions of £11,590 and pension contributions of £23,334....

Never understood why the right wing tabloids include Employers' NI Contribution - the employee doesn't benefit from these...

1andrew1 22-06-2022 10:10

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Don't agree with his politics but I've found Mick Lynch a fantastic performer in the interviews I've seen.

He's unflustered, doesn't rise to baiting, doesn't get angry, seems to knows his facts and makes interviewers appear out of their depth by just doing the interviews very well.

Maggy 22-06-2022 10:30

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36125942)
His salary is £89,962, with Employers' NI contributions of £11,590 and pension contributions of £23,334....

Never understood why the right wing tabloids include Employers' NI Contribution - the employee doesn't benefit from these...

:tu:

Chris 22-06-2022 10:48

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36125944)
Don't agree with his politics but I've found Mick Lynch a fantastic performer in the interviews I've seen.

He's unflustered, doesn't rise to baiting, doesn't get angry, seems to knows his facts and makes interviewers appear out of their depth by just doing the interviews very well.

Even Arthur Scargill was capable of giving a measured, thoughtful performance under forensic TV interview. Here’s a good example from 1984, worth watching in full (albeit difficult to follow given the technicalities of coal mining in Britain are no longer part of everyday discourse :D )

Nevertheless, put him on a picket line and he would scream and shout like the Trot he was (presumably still is).

Scargill was at least explicit about his desire to bring down a democratically elected government. Mick Lynch just seems content to do his bit to kick Boris while he’s down, and while it’s hard not to be sympathetic with that aim, the fact is it’s not his job to play politics or hold the country to ransom.

Incidentally, if you think resurrecting Scargill and the miners’ strike is a bit OTT, you should listen to the opening interviews on yesterday’s WatO on BBC R4. Their academic talking head managed to drop ‘Thatcherism’ and ‘Scargill’ into the debate within his first 30 seconds.

papa smurf 22-06-2022 11:05

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
talking of Scargill

he's on the picket line aged 84

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Y-reports.html

Mick 22-06-2022 11:13

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36125948)
Even Arthur Scargill was capable of giving a measured, thoughtful performance under forensic TV interview. Here’s a good example from 1984, worth watching in full (albeit difficult to follow given the technicalities of coal mining in Britain are no longer part of everyday discourse :D )

Nevertheless, put him on a picket line and he would scream and shout like the Trot he was (presumably still is).

Scargill was at least explicit about his desire to bring down a democratically elected government. Mick Lynch just seems content to do his bit to kick Boris while he’s down, and while it’s hard not to be sympathetic with that aim, the fact is it’s not his job to play politics or hold the country to ransom.

Incidentally, if you think resurrecting Scargill and the miners’ strike is a bit OTT, you should listen to the opening interviews on yesterday’s WatO on BBC R4. Their academic talking head managed to drop ‘Thatcherism’ and ‘Scargill’ into the debate within his first 30 seconds.

Scargill was pictured on the picket lines yesterday, I do believe. Will have to dig for the pic…

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

Here: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2106228.html

---------- Post added at 11:13 ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 ----------

Beaten to it by papa don’t preach. :D

nomadking 22-06-2022 11:28

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36125896)
Everybody in the public sector and transport stepped up during the pandemic. They all deserve to be treated with respect when seeking to ensure that they can pay their way after the huge increases across the board for food,fuel and other daily expenses that the entire country is currently facing. Everyone who did what was asked of them during the past 2 years deserve that consideration irrespective of what industry they work for.

So there were no food supplies etc? A whole bunch of people still worked.
If the costs go up, then inflation goes up, which in turn leads to wages going up. If the recent cost increases are allowed to drift out of the inflation figures(after a year), then the economy will be better than having an inflationary spiral. Even the Unions knew that in the late 1970s.
Have the £150 council tax rebate and the £400 energy bill rebate been taken into account with wage demands? Are the media reporting that?

mrmistoffelees 22-06-2022 11:37

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36125942)
His salary is £89,962, with Employers' NI contributions of £11,590 and pension contributions of £23,334....

Never understood why the right wing tabloids include Employers' NI Contribution - the employee doesn't benefit from these...

is the £89k before or after the pension contributions ? I'll bet they're salary sacrifice.......

Hom3r 22-06-2022 11:52

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36125957)
Is the £89k before or after the pension contributions ? I'll bet they're salary sacrifice.......


IIRC pensions are deducted before tax then you get taxed, my last job did this.

mrmistoffelees 22-06-2022 12:54

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36125960)
IIRC pensions are deducted before tax then you get taxed, my last job did this.


Can be both, mine are salary sacrificed but there's an option available for you not to do that (but why would you)

IF the employer is matching his % contributions that's a hefty pension pot.....

jfman 22-06-2022 13:01

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36125948)
play politics

If the working conditions of the members of trade union in either publicly owned, or heavily subsidised, industries aren’t political what is?

If the Government want a high skilled, high wage economy why is the intention for public sector workers to be exempt from enjoying the benefits?

nomadking 22-06-2022 13:16

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36125967)
If the working conditions of the members of trade union in either publicly owned, or heavily subsidised, industries aren’t political what is?

If the Government want a high skilled, high wage economy why is the intention for public sector workers to be exempt from enjoying the benefits?

How would an inflationary spiral help anyone?:rolleyes:

Have they suddenly become more highly skilled? Have they suddenly become more productive?

mrmistoffelees 22-06-2022 13:21

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36125968)
How would an inflationary spiral help anyone?:rolleyes:

Have they suddenly become more highly skilled? Have they suddenly become more productive?

Are you a people manager ?

jfman 22-06-2022 13:25

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36125968)
How would an inflationary spiral help anyone?:rolleyes:

It wouldn’t, but why should preventing it fall disproportionately on some workers?

Quote:

Have they suddenly become more highly skilled? Have they suddenly become more productive?
That’s irrelevant. The entirely mythical Tory high wage, high skilled economy drives up wages for all workers due to the reduced supply of “unskilled” workers creating competitive pressure (dare I even say inflationary pressure) for employers.

nomadking 22-06-2022 13:57

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36125970)
It wouldn’t, but why should preventing it fall disproportionately on some workers?



That’s irrelevant. The entirely mythical Tory high wage, high skilled economy drives up wages for all workers due to the reduced supply of “unskilled” workers creating competitive pressure (dare I even say inflationary pressure) for employers.

The claim was for creating NEW "high wage, high skilled" types of jobs, NOT existing ones.

How is it falling disproportionately on them?
If it's a "mythical Tory" thing, why isn't it also a mythical Labour, Lib Dem, or SNP thing?:confused:

jfman 22-06-2022 14:37

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36125980)
The claim was for creating NEW "high wage, high skilled" types of jobs, NOT existing ones.

A two tier economy then, high profits offshored while everyone left has meagre pay rises eroded by eye watering levels of inflation. Gotcha.

Quote:

How is it falling disproportionately on them?
If it's a "mythical Tory" thing, why isn't it also a mythical Labour, Lib Dem, or SNP thing?:confused:
Everything is mythical in the Lib Dem manifesto. I’m not sure you’re point it’s the Government’s job to govern and deliver on it’s commitments. It’s just really hard to see how they plan to achieve it as they drive down real terms wages and living standards by the fastest amount in decades.

Chris 22-06-2022 16:15

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36125967)
If the working conditions of the members of trade union in either publicly owned, or heavily subsidised, industries aren’t political what is?

If the Government want a high skilled, high wage economy why is the intention for public sector workers to be exempt from enjoying the benefits?

I addressed the railways management structure and political oversight in an earlier post. In brief, Network Rail and its regulator are designed to keep politicians at arms length, with input only at the strategic planning level. No cabinet minister has a place at the pay bargaining table and Mick Lynch is just trying to rock it like the 1970s by pretending otherwise. Network Rail is not British Rail.

ianch99 22-06-2022 16:22

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
It is clear now that this whole strike story is actively welcomed by the Government. Imagine deliberately encouraging pain & disruption for partisan political purposes.

The Transport Secretary has refused to get involved in the discussions leading up to this strike. I would argue he has a duty of obligation to do so and to actively pursue a route of mediation.

Chris 22-06-2022 16:26

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36125999)
It is clear now that this whole strike story is actively welcomed by the Government. Imagine deliberately encouraging pain & disruption for partisan political purposes.

The Transport Secretary has refused to get involved in the discussions leading up to this strike. I would argue he has a duty of obligation to do so and to actively pursue a route of mediation.

… which very neatly demonstrates the narrative the RMT is trying to manufacture.

Demand the participation of someone external to the process, then when they (obviously) refuse, claim the whole situation is their fault. Network Rail is not British Rail.

jfman 22-06-2022 16:49

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36125998)
I addressed the railways management structure and political oversight in an earlier post. In brief, Network Rail and its regulator are designed to keep politicians at arms length, with input only at the strategic planning level. No cabinet minister has a place at the pay bargaining table and Mick Lynch is just trying to rock it like the 1970s by pretending otherwise. Network Rail is not British Rail.

A red herring.

Public sector pay (including that of employees of publicly funded regulators) is directed by Government at all levels who set the overarching parameters for each body to adhere to. I suspect you know this, however as always are keen to absolve the Government of any responsibility for any of it’s failings.

You may have believed you addressed the point above, however inadequately so.

nomadking 22-06-2022 17:57

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36125986)
A two tier economy then, high profits offshored while everyone left has meagre pay rises eroded by eye watering levels of inflation. Gotcha.

Everything is mythical in the Lib Dem manifesto. I’m not sure you’re point it’s the Government’s job to govern and deliver on it’s commitments. It’s just really hard to see how they plan to achieve it as they drive down real terms wages and living standards by the fastest amount in decades.

Which politician or political party, has EVER said that "high wage, high skill" means simply paying everybody more? You're misquoting everybody. Are the various Labour manifestos mythical? Are the SNP government in Scotland mythical?

High profits? Where? You're talking about individual wages, not businesses. The costs os the businesses have increased, thereby reducing what little profits they may have.


You're just spouting nonsense.

Hugh 22-06-2022 18:10

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36126017)
Which politician or political party, has EVER said that "high wage, high skill" means simply paying everybody more? You're misquoting everybody. Are the various Labour manifestos mythical? Are the SNP government in Scotland mythical?

High profits? Where? You're talking about individual wages, not businesses. The costs os the businesses have increased, thereby reducing what little profits they may have.


You're just spouting nonsense.

Quote:

Corporate Profits in the United Kingdom increased to 139210 GBP Million in the first quarter of 2022 from 128935 GBP Million in the fourth quarter of 2021. source: Office for National Statistics
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...porate-profits

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1655917787

Mick 22-06-2022 18:30

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36125999)
It is clear now that this whole strike story is actively welcomed by the Government. Imagine deliberately encouraging pain & disruption for partisan political purposes.

The Transport Secretary has refused to get involved in the discussions leading up to this strike. I would argue he has a duty of obligation to do so and to actively pursue a route of mediation.

Why?

He’s not, nor is the government, their employer?

GrimUpNorth 22-06-2022 18:32

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36126000)
… which very neatly demonstrates the narrative the RMT is trying to manufacture.

Demand the participation of someone external to the process, then when they (obviously) refuse, claim the whole situation is their fault. Network Rail is not British Rail.

...which very neatly demonstrates the narrative the Government has sucked you in to.

The Government have gone to great lengths over the last few days to stay neutral, I mean I've only heard the £600 per household to fund the railways during the pandemic muttered by whichever government mouthpiece they drag out that day. If they're as external to the process as you say, then why is their involvement mentioned so many times on the Network Rail How we're funded page?

I think we all know the Government could expedite an end to the current dispute if they so wanted with little more than a phonecall.

nomadking 22-06-2022 18:34

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126020)

Meaningless, unless there's a breakdown by industry sector. Now take off the proposed windfall tax. Still nothing to do with the wages of individuals in individual businesses.

Strange considering people are claiming the UK economy is tanking.:confused:

ianch99 22-06-2022 19:03

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36126021)
Why?

He’s not, nor is the government, their employer?

Network Rail is Government-owned and, as a major national Infrastructure component, the smooth running of said operation is in the national interest.

Chris 22-06-2022 19:14

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126026)
Network Rail is Government-owned and, as a major national Infrastructure component, the smooth running of said operation is in the national interest.

Making it an obvious political target for union militancy, and explaining why Network Rail and its regulator are structured as they are - so as to make clear that it is not under daily political influence and unions looking for pay rises should be talking to the employer, not trying to score cheap points off the government.

OLD BOY 22-06-2022 19:29

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36125967)
If the working conditions of the members of trade union in either publicly owned, or heavily subsidised, industries aren’t political what is?

If the Government want a high skilled, high wage economy why is the intention for public sector workers to be exempt from enjoying the benefits?

What you are missing is that the high wages are dependent on high productivity.

It has been made perfectly clear to the RMT that their members will get higher wages if they accept modernisation, and that only voluntary redundancies are proposed to achieve this.

So what's the problem? I tell you what it is - the union is spoiling for a fight with the government and has no problem with lying to their members to achieve this. It is a blatant attempt to bring down the government. We saw this before with Scargill.

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36125969)
Are you a people manager ?

That seems to indicate that you have been presented with a question you cannot answer.

Noted.

ianch99 22-06-2022 19:32

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36126028)
Making it an obvious political target for union militancy, and explaining why Network Rail and its regulator are structured as they are - so as to make clear that it is not under daily political influence and unions looking for pay rises should be talking to the employer, not trying to score cheap points off the government.

That's just paranoia.

It's quite simple: the Rail network is a national infrastructure asset and should be treated as such.

OLD BOY 22-06-2022 19:35

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36125999)
It is clear now that this whole strike story is actively welcomed by the Government. Imagine deliberately encouraging pain & disruption for partisan political purposes.

The Transport Secretary has refused to get involved in the discussions leading up to this strike. I would argue he has a duty of obligation to do so and to actively pursue a route of mediation.

Completely off the wall!

This is a matter between the employers and the employees.

Of course you want to turn this into another intervention by the government - why wouldn't you? You want a Labour government.

Good luck with that, you will find when the next General Election is held that most people disagree with you.

These tactics are a gift to the Conservative Party, just as Corbyn was.

ianch99 22-06-2022 19:39

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126034)
Completely off the wall!

This is a matter between the employers and the employees.

Of course you want to turn this into another intervention by the government - why wouldn't you? You want a Labour government.

Good luck with that, you will find when the next General Election is held that most people disagree with you.

These tactics are a gift to the Conservative Party, just as Corbyn was.

Yes but your recent posts re: Johnson and his parties were so divorced from reality that I am inclined to put this one in that pot also ;)

OLD BOY 22-06-2022 19:42

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126033)
That's just paranoia.

It's quite simple: the Rail network is a national infrastructure asset and should be treated as such.

Anyone can see the game you are playing here.

The government is keeping clear of the pay negotiations, and rightly so.

The money the RMT want for their members is available, but they must accept the modernisation of working practices to achieve that.

Employee contracts are with their employers.

Hugh 22-06-2022 19:50

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36126023)
Meaningless, unless there's a breakdown by industry sector. Now take off the proposed windfall tax. Still nothing to do with the wages of individuals in individual businesses.

Strange considering people are claiming the UK economy is tanking.:confused:

Strange how you keep moving the goalposts…

I have provided evidence to answer your point

Quote:

The costs os the businesses have increased, thereby reducing what little profits they may have.
Your response is "meaningless", but with no evidence to support that statement…

You are the perfect example of Gish galloping and Brandolini’s Law.

OLD BOY 22-06-2022 20:18

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36126035)
Yes but your recent posts re: Johnson and his parties were so divorced from reality that I am inclined to put this one in that pot also ;)

Actually, my posts were focussed more on what had been proved, whereas your fanciful posts were based on what you suspected. If you want to pursue that line of argument, you will need to be more specific. However, let’s do that in a more appropriate thread.

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126037)
Strange how you keep moving the goalposts…

I have provided evidence to answer your point



Your response is "meaningless", but with no evidence to support that statement…

You are the perfect example of Gish galloping and Brandolini’s Law.

Why do you need ‘evidence’ when you can see with your own eyes the damage that has been done to businesses?

And with your superhuman abilities to trawl the internet to find the most obscure facts to prove the points you want to make, why can you not do the same in this instance?

Sephiroth 22-06-2022 20:59

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126040)
<SNIP>>

Why do you need ‘evidence’ when you can see with your own eyes the damage that has been done to businesses?

And with your superhuman abilities to trawl the internet to find the most obscure facts to prove the points you want to make, why can you not do the same in this instance?

Good one, OB.

Hugh 22-06-2022 21:24

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36126040)
Actually, my posts were focussed more on what had been proved, whereas your fanciful posts were based on what you suspected. If you want to pursue that line of argument, you will need to be more specific. However, let’s do that in a more appropriate thread.

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------



Why do you need ‘evidence’ when you can see with your own eyes the damage that has been done to businesses?

And with your superhuman abilities to trawl the internet to find the most obscure facts to prove the points you want to make, why can you not do the same in this instance?

Because, as I am sure you know, it is only polite for the person making the proposition to provide that information…

And with your superhuman abilities to fail to do basic research on and ignoring any information that contradicts your tunnel vision, why am I not surprised you leap to the defence of another poster who mimics your behaviours?

But, as you are an avid proponent of Gish galloping and a prime example of Brandolini’s Law, I can understand why you wouldn’t be keen on evidence that contradicts your opinions and anecdata…

nomadking 22-06-2022 21:49

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36126037)
Strange how you keep moving the goalposts…

I have provided evidence to answer your point



Your response is "meaningless", but with no evidence to support that statement…

You are the perfect example of Gish galloping and Brandolini’s Law.

Including every industry sector is misleading. As I pointed out, a chunk of that profit will be from oil and gas producers. Not every sector has that level of profits. You can't include one-off sets of profits to fund an ongoing pay rise.

Chris 23-06-2022 12:30

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Out of fairness, I really have to share this even though I disagree with what the RMT is trying to do. Mick Lynch made absolute mincemeat of Kay Burley live on Sky news earlier this week and the footage is a joy to behold:

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/s...-of-mick-lynch

1andrew1 23-06-2022 12:48

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36126084)
Out of fairness, I really have to share this even though I disagree with what the RMT is trying to do. Mick Lynch made absolute mincemeat of Kay Burley live on Sky news earlier this week and the footage is a joy to behold:

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/s...-of-mick-lynch

Agreed. That was the point I was making yesterday. I don't agree with his politics - he's a far left-wing Brexiter - but he interviews very well and makes mincemeat of less-well briefed interviewers.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36125944)
Don't agree with his politics but I've found Mick Lynch a fantastic performer in the interviews I've seen.

He's unflustered, doesn't rise to baiting, doesn't get angry, seems to knows his facts and makes interviewers appear out of their depth by just doing the interviews very well.


Hugh 23-06-2022 15:09

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36126050)
Including every industry sector is misleading. As I pointed out, a chunk of that profit will be from oil and gas producers. Not every sector has that level of profits. You can't include one-off sets of profits to fund an ongoing pay rise.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1655993347

Mad Max 23-06-2022 20:30

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36126084)
Out of fairness, I really have to share this even though I disagree with what the RMT is trying to do. Mick Lynch made absolute mincemeat of Kay Burley live on Sky news earlier this week and the footage is a joy to behold:

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/s...-of-mick-lynch


Just watched that,comedy gold, talk about getting your knickers in a twist, :D:D

Mick 11-07-2022 22:16

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
BREAKING: MPs vote to approve regulations which allow agency workers to replace striking staff.

GrimUpNorth 11-07-2022 22:54

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36127979)
BREAKING: MPs vote to approve regulations which allow agency workers to replace striking staff.

Don't think this'll make much difference if the train drivers go on strike, doubt there's many qualified train drivers on the books of temp agencies.

1andrew1 11-07-2022 23:03

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36127995)
Don't think this'll make much difference if the train drivers go on strike, doubt there's many qualified train drivers on the books of temp agencies.

Even the other roles are pretty specialised and most companies are having problems recruiting permanent staff.

GrimUpNorth 12-07-2022 08:19

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36127996)
Even the other roles are pretty specialised and most companies are having problems recruiting permanent staff.

As a UNISON steward I'm hearing horror stories of life as a care worker. To start with the service is short staffed and just can't compete with supermarkets wages for staff and the sickness levels are rising as the staff can't afford to put fuel in their cars with some having no choice but to call in sick at the end of the month because they have no money left.

Public services are more than creaking under the pressure and something's going to give sooner or later. I understand the issues with inflation busting pay rises, but one compromise might be to stop tinkering round the edges and give everyone a one off cost of living payment and a reasonable pay rise. If you look at the billions the prospective candidates are talking about giving away, sending a descent sized cheque to everyone is more than doable.

Sephiroth 12-07-2022 09:08

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36128013)
As a UNISON steward I'm hearing horror stories of life as a care worker. To start with the service is short staffed and just can't compete with supermarkets wages for staff and the sickness levels are rising as the staff can't afford to put fuel in their cars with some having no choice but to call in sick at the end of the month because they have no money left.

Public services are more than creaking under the pressure and something's going to give sooner or later. I understand the issues with inflation busting pay rises, but one compromise might be to stop tinkering round the edges and give everyone a one off cost of living payment and a reasonable pay rise. If you look at the billions the prospective candidates are talking about giving away, sending a descent sized cheque to everyone is more than doable.

Yes - something's going to give eventually.

The bleedin' obvious occurs to me that private sector profit taken in the utilities and railways is the difference between decent pay and the squeeze we are seeing.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no socialist. But the utilities and railways need to be not-for-profit. Question: What personal interests do the Tory political barons have in the utilities and railways?


1andrew1 12-07-2022 09:22

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36128013)
As a UNISON steward I'm hearing horror stories of life as a care worker. To start with the service is short staffed and just can't compete with supermarkets wages for staff and the sickness levels are rising as the staff can't afford to put fuel in their cars with some having no choice but to call in sick at the end of the month because they have no money left.

Public services are more than creaking under the pressure and something's going to give sooner or later. I understand the issues with inflation busting pay rises, but one compromise might be to stop tinkering round the edges and give everyone a one off cost of living payment and a reasonable pay rise. If you look at the billions the prospective candidates are talking about giving away, sending a descent sized cheque to everyone is more than doable.

Raising the income tax threshold is probably a good way of achieving this.

---------- Post added at 09:22 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36128018)
Yes - something's going to give eventually.

The bleedin' obvious occurs to me that private sector profit taken in the utilities and railways is the difference between decent pay and the squeeze we are seeing.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no socialist. But the utilities and railways need to be not-for-profit. Question: What personal interests do the Tory political barons have in the utilities and railways?

I think the utilities were privatised due to the need to get money in the bank, ideology (belief that private = more efficient) and the fact that investment was needed which always competed with health and education so never happened.

Railway privatisation was John Major's baby. Thatcher saw that it was a privatisation too far and British Rail under her regime was allowed to get on and run itself and was pretty efficient. Obviously, the City was up for it but it's also hugely benefited train drivers as their bargaining power has increased as there is no monopoly buyer of labour. This is a biased source but you get the drift! https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/473868...litant-unions/

Mr K 12-07-2022 18:38

Re: RMT announce Rail strikes are on for this week
 
Not used the railways for a couple of years now. The fares are absurd and the service/trains terrible. Cheaper to fly round the UK.

All the promises of increased road taxes being used to fund public transport were yet more lies.

A privatisation failure in every way.


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