Panic at the Pumps
 

I popped to my local Sainsbury's to get some food today, it was a nightmare to get in as the queues to the fuel station was beyond a joke.

I warned my sister on the family WhatsApp group.

She, my brother-in-law and niece all reported madness at the pumps on their routes to work.

I always fill up when I hit 1/4 tank left, but will wait a bit.

Trouble is, I 100% guarantee the pump prices will go up, and I already pay £1.50 a litre.

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SWMBO tanked up her car today (on orange and she’s back to work next week) our local filling station was busier than normal but no long queues, we are starting to see a couple of stations in our area close however.

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Talking to the manager at the local Toby that is next to Sainsbury's apparently the petrol station was dry at 9 this morning.

Huge queues this afternoon and they had staff vetting those trying to enter the site.

Glad the tank in the car is 3/4 full.

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First I knew about this was queues at Morrisons today.
I was getting low as I havent filled up since August, so went to pop in today, and wow ...
Took me about 10 minutes to get to a pump, still, that should do me until November now.

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Credit to jfman yesterday who posted in the energy suppliers thread

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Right, because no one else ever would have predicted that.

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‘Don’t think of pink elephants’

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Well it only takes somebody in El Gov. to say there's no shortage to provoke utter panic.

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I blame the wording the News channels use, they said issues getting fuel to stations and muppets panic.

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:D:D:D

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I went for petrol just then and they only had E10, no E5 or diesel.

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I’d argue that those that don’t take the time to read the full story behind the sensationalist headlines are, in fact, muppets.

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Reticent though I am to defend Boris, he's right* to prioritise climate change . It does mean certain doom unless we make dramatic changes. All the other issues facing the country/world we have a chance of dealing with; a planet where we're beyond the tipping point of climate disaster we've no chance.

* I'll delete this later..... ;)

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For those wondering how the HGV vacancies have been created
https://www.ft.com/content/8335166f-...f-d7554c3b40b2

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While I don’t consider it an epiphany, others seemed to indicate it wasn’t a predictable outcome.

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Maybe the foreign workers who we told to sod off, don't want to come back? Wouldn't blame them tbh.

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They're rationing it now, you couldn't make this stuff up...

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This time last year they were almost giving the bloody stuff away :rolleyes:

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According to next-door app, my town is virtually dry, you can buy E10 petrol but that's about it.

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So who exactly predicted this as a result of a pandemic?:rolleyes:

The problem is that everybody thinks that although they don't need to get more petrol at the moment, they fear that by the time they do, there would be none available because of panic buying. The panic buying is a result of the the fear of the result of others panic buying. Yet another self-fulfilling prophecy. People acting in a particular manner because of the fear of everybody else acting in that same manner.

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Becasue the media (once again) put everyone into panic mode by saying there was a shortage. :sleep:

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You wouldn’t know what honesty was, seeing as this is a complete fabrication. If they have suppose to have gone back, then why is there a bloody shortage of HGV drivers across Europe? :rolleyes:

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Anyone would think there are tens of thousands of HGV drivers just sitting at home twiddling their thumbs and living off benefits.:rolleyes:

Where are these 5,000 European HGV drivers supposed to materialise from? The best you can do is effectively pinch drivers from other countries and cause problems in those countries instead. Same goes for other jobs/professions eg Doctors, Nurses.

What is it that makes it unattractive as a job? Not being able to take alcohol or drugs? Having to spend too long a time away from home? Eg A 2000km journey means you can't go home each night. Even a "short" journey such as Dover to Birmingham is barely going to make it.

Is a structural change needed, ie a form of relay with the trucks with a truck being handed over to another driver after a certain distance. There would be potential complications in making sure a driver was ready for the next leg of the journey. With such a structure, goods would move quicker and less lorries required.

There is a limited number of people prepared to do jobs that require being away from home for extended periods of time, eg long haul air travel, ships(container, cruise), military service.

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:tu:

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Peeing into a pop bottle doesn't sound like fun either. Wonder where they wash their hands? The verges of country are covered with the amber nectar, don't be tempted !

---------- Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 ----------

We aren't seeing the empty shelves/forecourts in other countries.

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Not just Europe that these HGV drivers could come from. Think Asia, Middle East and Africa too.

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I heard on the radio the HGV demographic is avg age 55, white, male.

Nobody is screaming for equality and diversity in this sector though are they :rolleyes: ?

Crap money, crap hours,

If tube drivers are worth £50K +. Then maybe we will see the value of HGV drivers provide to society and the economy and treat them better.

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You liar. We’re not seeing them here either. The media has fed a problem in to itself, a few forecourts got delivery issues, people panic buy, creating bigger problems. It’s not about Brexit FFS, as much as you pathetically want this to be. :rolleyes:

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I'm blaming the newspapers for yesterday's scenes. On Thursday BP said it had closed 'a handful' of petrol stations. Yesterday's front pages went to town on this, including The Sun's 'We're Running on Empty'. They must have known such inflammatory headlines would cause panic buying.

A good description of the situation I spotted on twitter: 'Panic buying is collectively irrational, but individually rational.'

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Railways are unionised so have been able to strike collectively to get such wages. It's never been a question of anyone analysing their benefit to society and the economy and deciding to treat them better.

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As long as they fit all the criteria for safe HGV driving in the UK.They will need to pass a test or two and be aware of the Highway code etc..

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Precisely, the money was crap because of the foreign drivers, were driving down wages. Businesses took advantage for years of cheap Labour from Europe. But the Remainiacs, will continue to leech on any issue they can find to fit their pathetic and weak narrative. :rolleyes:

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There are proposals to make to HGV test simpler.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58487347

Am tempted to have a go for £53k... Reversing isn't my strong point mind....

---------- Post added at 09:20 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

Personal experience Mick. The milk aisle in.my local Morrisons was empty recently, the reason a lack of drivers to transport milk.

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And they have a surplus of properly trained HGV drivers?

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There's probably not a surplus of nurses in such countries but they still come to the UK to work here for financial reasons. Why not HGV drivers too?

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There's a difference between being allowed to work in the UK(ie short term visas for HGV drivers) and being allowed to live and work in the UK and bring over several generations of family as well.

It is not a job that requires years of training such as doctors or nurses. It's not a job that is overly complicated to do.

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Let everybody fill up yesterday, they’ll have nice full tanks but not go anywhere. I’ll go fill up mid-week when all the forecourts will have tumble weeds blowing through them.

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Hello? There is lack of drivers World Wide, except in Africa. Didn’t realise every other country left the corrupted EU. :dunce:

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If it's worth their while financially, drivers will come from around the world to work here but with the UK at full employment levels, we may need to make their stay permanent whilst we train the next generation of male and female drivers.

As Pierre touches upon, we should also try to make HGV driving more attractive to women thus expanding the potential pool of drivers.

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Almost mile long queues in both directions to get to our local Tesco petrol station at 10:30 yesterday evening. Through traffic was unable to squeeze past. It had been that way most of the day.

Drivers got all the way to the petrol station to find a small notice saying that it was closed for repairs!

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We have a perfect storm with multitudes of issues, however,
Britain leaving the EU exacerbates the issue as we were unable to use overseas labour to fill the gaps that we need something that other countries are able to do.

https://trans.info/en/eu-report-reve...ruckers-226234

Even if we can get 50,000 drivers through their tests it’s not the end of the problem. There’s individual load requirements to be considered.

Boris made a sensible decision yesterday with the visa change. This will hopefully buy us the time we need.

Imho This isn’t a pay issue, it’s a conditions issue. Conditions aren’t about to change due to the nature of the role.

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But an attractive wage makes suffering the poor conditions more tempting

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It’s hardly a badly paid job especially when you consider the pay vs location.

https://uk.jobted.com/salary/hgv-driver

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Agree that we need to make the role more attractive - as I said, this will make it more attractive to women too thus increasing the potential pool of talent to recruit from.

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It's a (poor) decision brought about by big businesses moaning and the media having a field day blowing stuff out of proportion . . again.

5000 drivers won't turn up overnight, but now 'they've' got what they wanted, you watch the problem disappear in a day or two.

Anyone who thinks foreign workers are the answer to all our problems are quite possibly the very people who got us into this mess in the first place.

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It is not leaving the EU issue, why pumps across the country are running dry. It’s a media snow balling a minor issue into panic frenzy. I know you Remainers like to bang this drum all too often. But a HGV driver problem, is Europe wide issue and crucially, it is a pay issue.

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Welcome to capitalism. Foreign workers will always be needed in some capacity.

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No one is promoting that except as a temporary fix but any country may need to import labour given the size of its population relative to its available working population. Hence I assume Windrush. What got us here in the first place on HGV drivers is a witch's brew of many things.

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I’m not sure why you needed to go down the ‘you remainers’ route when I said quite clearly that leaving the EU enhances the issue and is not necessarily the cause. At an average salary of 32k per year it’s not a pay issue it’s a being away from home five days a week and sleeping in a cab and having little to no facilities issue.

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An experienced driver can get £40k, a less experienced one £32k. It's not tech salaries but it's not bad.

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We (the UK) have a large enough 'working population', it's just a pity that some of them do very nicely on benefits and handouts and don't 'need' to work.


edit: The average salary in the UK is £29,600 per year (or £1,950 per month).
https://uk.jobted.com/salary

I know a great many who are on £10k less than that doing full time shift work, averages are just more statistical nonsense

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Tech salaries outside of major cities are atrocious.

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Why don't they become HGV drivers then?

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Have the government force them into the careers that we have a shortage of. Simple innit, so simple in fact that I wonder why it hasn’t been done.

19.6k full time shift work doing what ? If it’s packing sandwiches in boxes in loftus thats not a bad salary for an easy job in a low cost of living area.

As with everything perspective is required.

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Because you’re circumventing the problem of HGV shortages, Europe wide. Germany 65-85K HGV vacancies unfilled. Poland 124,000 driver shortages, pretty sure it was only the UK that left the corrupted EU. But I guess you got to cling to some hope that Brexit is the route cause, when it most certainly isn’t.

It’s almost as if, and I’m not necessarily pointing finger at you doing this, but it’s like all these so called shortages bullshit, “some” hardline Remainers, want something so destructive, to prove to us Brexiteers, we got it momentously and catastrophically wrong, that so much so, we’d change our minds or admit defeat. I say NEVER. I have no regrets voting to leave and I’d do so again. It’s called democracy.

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More attractive than what exactly? Where are the mass of higher paid jobs? If indeed there are mythical higher paid jobs they are doing instead, then the salary for those would just increase, resulting in the same problem coming around again.

People simply don't want the lifestyle of spending the week away from home. No amount of money is going to get around that.

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Same reason they don't become lumberjacks, opera singers, F1 drivers, and script writers I suppose :p:

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Oh look… who knew…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1632564771

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Fair point there’s always going to be ardent discussion around the B issue !! And yes you’re right there are shortages around not only just the U.K., the EU but also the rest of the world pretty much. As per my article link the EU are having to bring in eastern European drivers in order to meet shortages. EU members can also move labour around if needed.

I guess my point is that one of the reasons we voted to leave the EU is to ‘take back control’ now we have left the government had the power to lessen the impact that the shortage of HGV drivers is causing. but they didn’t act quickly enough. JIT supply chains means you can’t play ‘catch up’

The EU is embarking on a program to improve the HGV infrastructure that they have in place (which is already far superior to the U.K.s) we need to at least be on par with that

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That's a fair point. Could you make the hours shorter so they get Fridays off or offer more part-time positions. Then potentially they would spend fewer nights away from home.

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Unfortunately, that work pattern isn’t compatoble with the role or the supply chains. Or multi drop routes.

It may be feasible if we could migrate more freight delivery via the rail network.

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An important point there about strategic initiatives such as improving HGV infrastructure that seek to make the job more attractive and therefore retain and attract HGV drivers.

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Sorry but it must be meme time, my turn Hugh. :~> :rofl:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1632565347

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It is not a fair point as not all (or a majority) of HGV drivers spend the week away from home sleeping in their cabs. Fuel delivery drivers certainly don't.

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Yes. One thing about this crisis is that it must be making railfreight more attractive a proposition.

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Expanding the rail network, like the £billions spent on the HS2 fiasco :D

But seriously, long distance rail haulage has to be more beneficial than HGV's running up & down the country :tu:

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That's an issue of lack of vacant positions, not the case here and in other examples.

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Something picked up on sky news which we all haven’t considered is that the introduction of IR35 on HGV owner operators and all but forcing them to become employees.

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Good point, therefore they should all become HGV drivers and subsequently leave us with shortages in the areas of food production, shop workers, warehouse workers etc etc ;)

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

Picked up on here a week or more ago, are Sky being deliberately evasive with their reporting?

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

HGV driver shortages hit U.S… posted last month by Bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...drivers-abroad

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Well let's all get round to Whartons garage then. :)
Wonder if they've put the prices up as others opportunistically have?

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Then the freight would have to loaded and unloaded multiple times on the many sections of the rail network(try doing journeys as a rail passenger to understand), in addition to the road network to get to and from the rail depots.
Then when the rail unions inevitably go on strike.:rolleyes:

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Source ?

Due to driving time limits and or road conditions I’d say it’s highly subjective as to which drivers need to sleep in cabs

---------- Post added at 11:42 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------

Missed the ‘I’

Was on earlier this morning.

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People keep stating people are doing alternative higher-paid jobs, and evading specifying what those higher-paid jobs are.

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Part of their short term answer, bring in overseas drivers.

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Cabbage picking at 62k Per year :)

In all seriousness I’d like to know the answer to this.

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Grow your own cabbages is the answer.

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I’d rather not, cannot stand the stuff

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:D:D

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No idea why you've quoted me, I merely pointed out that a great many people don't earn anywhere near the average (and much touted in the media) UK wage :shrug:

Andrew suggested they change jobs . .

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:D:D

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You were stating that there would be shortages in other areas. Eg is being a shop worker or in food production higher paid? People are NOT being shop workers because it's higher paid than being an HGV driver.
People keep griping about pay levels being the reason for shortages in various areas, when that simply can't be the case as the higher-paying jobs are not there.

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Can’t bring in over sees drivers if they 1) Don’t want to work oversees. 2) They’re being paid more to stay in their own backyard, because their country is also suffering HGV shortages, we need to stop saying foreigners are the answer, when we have so many unemployed, enjoying the benefit gravy train.

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Well, if you would believe some it’s because they’re on benefits enjoying a cushy lifestyle……

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That answer was a 'slightly' sarcastic answer to your post here

. . and I simply suggested that Andrews (also slightly sarcastic post) of 'why don't they become HGV drivers?' would just remove a job shortage from one sector to another :D

There are also lots of high paying jobs out there, sadly unless you're a politician, solicitor, or decent footballer, you aint gonna get one :D

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EV car owners must be driving around pretty smug looking right now

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until the power cuts start.

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The price hike on natural gas will feed through to a larger hike in electricity supplies soon enough.

And that will cause a spike in inflation.

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Three of the companies I work for us Turkish drivers, infact one of our oldest clients was fully taken over by a Turkish firm, they had one British driver left before take over

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There's a lot less choice and there are spaces on shelves whenever I've been shopping recently

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

I'm sure if you ask nicely, someone will lend you their Brexray specs so the shelves all look full and the uplands sunny. ;)

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Sky News has published an explainer article which neatly summarises the causes and solutions being pursued.

Causes

• Covid pandemic
• Brexit
• Retiring drivers
• Costs of training and pay
• Tax changes
• Working conditions

What is being done to fix the problem?

• Temporary visas
• HGV driving tests relaxed

https://news.sky.com/story/supply-cr...m-get-12417317

Re: Panic at the Pumps
 

Add to that list: "Existing lorry drivers to have a medical at the age of 45 and then every five years until the age of 65. After 65, the medical has to be done every year. " Most are done with GP’s, but they haven't been doing them for almost 2 years, and are still not doing many.

Also: Driver training and testing hasn't happened much for many, many months.

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All this issue has proven is that the U.K. population on the whole, are totally malleable, easily led, compliant, and will believe anything the media says to them.

Green lights to the government to push any agenda they want through the MSM.

“Sheeple” never been more appropriate.

Expect a major push through COVID ( less likely now) and CLIMATE CHANGE ( highly likely) to curtail our freedoms…….and we’ll lap it up.

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It just shows that people are stupid. That is all it is. No agendas at all.

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It shows that people are indeed stupid, and open to those that have an agenda.

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Indeed, hence the direction this country is going.

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Based on the last line of your comment, you should start stockpiling tinfoil.

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Nah, Climate Change is the biggy when Covid settles down, just a pity the experts are stupid and we're doing it all wrong :D

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I passed several garages today, no queues at any of them.

Either everyone filled up yesterday, or they have run out.
I didnt see any signs to say they were out of fuel, so probably the first reason.

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Nah, those of us "in the know" have our tinfoil hats ready and waiting. You are the one who needs to prepare.:D