Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58636439

An interesting proposal.Of course it won't be possible for every industry but I can see it being popular for some particularly those who reside some distance from their place of employment.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

That’s the thing - not all jobs are conducive to flexible working.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Which is why this was in the article.

They have the right to request it, not to get it (without good reason).

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Thats the problem.
Our company has basically said their policy is no more than two days WFH. :td:

Complete and utter muppets since we have been WFH for 18 months now, without any issues.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Will need careful vetting of interviewees to weed out pains in the neck :D

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

What if the pain in the neck gets the job done best?

All depends on the needs of the job, but the days of bums on seats, and just being visible are gone. All on what you deliver. People deliver better when they are happy with their work/life balance and haven't had an unecessary, costly, time consuming commute. Most employers have now woken up to this, and the money they can save on office space. The people that are missing the office in my area are those that chatted about football/reality tv all day and delivered diddly squat....

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

My sister works in a solicitors, at the beginning of lockdown they bought everyone a laptop, and a VOIP phone, and she was given a printer, yes the IT system did suffer from some issues, but know it works as if they are in the office.

She works from home and can only go into the office on Tuesdays & Fridays, she lives near a local shop and can do her post as usual.

She does miss the water cooler moments and support the colleges give each other.

Furthermore, she loves working from home as she can start the washing machine and dish washer at will and put stuff away in the quite times.

The company had a second office which they've closed as all staff work from home.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

A couple of considerations

Not everyone wants to WFH some enjoy going to the office.

WFH requires significant self discipline be that to perform duties when there are distractions and also to be able to create a line between being at work and being at home.

I say this as as someone who was permanent wfh 12
Months before the pandemic started.

My company has been fully remote/wfh capable for years so this was never a technical issue.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

The problem with wfh is that you will miss out on opportunities for promotion, might be okay for settled older people happy with their post but it will stiffle younger newer members of staff keen to impress and climb the greasy pole

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I’d suggest that’s a more company specific issue. We’ve just had a round of promotions at my place over one hundred people promoted (myself included)

As with most things it’s about gathering the right data and executing on it

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Exactly, a round of promotions but the opportunity to spontaneously impress the boss and earn it there and then will be largely gone solely due to proximity, it's not the end of the world though I guess and might even help retention figures

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I can only speak to what I see however whilst in our company managers put forward their staff for promotion ( my manager is in MSP, US & I have staff in the US, EMEA & APAC) ultimately all final decisions are made by the leadership team located in SF

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

More unnecessary bureaucracy. Companies and public services are trying to run their businesses, for God’s sake!

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

There’s a shift in peoples attitudes towards work, and the requirements for better conditions for employees. Most companies that can offer flexible work patterns and don’t will end up losing to those that do. It’s already happening in tech & fintech businesses, perks such as catered lunches, stocked fridges etc are rapidly losing their appeal to flexible working/wfh

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Thats been a myth in every company I have worked for.
The 'boss', i.e. my Managers have never had the power to do that.
Promotions can be proposed by them, but have to be approved by Directors & HR, its a slow process.
I would think thats probably the case in most companies these days.
(except maybe very small ones, who are less likely to have many WFH anyway).

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I wasn’t aware we needed to have a law to allow us to ask a question. It’s unnecessary bureaucracy.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

So what info would Directors and HR have that would ignore a Managers opinion and knowledge? HR would override a promotion on the basis of quotas, ie they would discriminate.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

There’s a huge difference between an informal chat in the corridor and a formal request to change contractually agreed hours and patterns of work - but I’m sure you knew that…

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------

Budgetary constraints, perhaps knowledge of future potential departmental restructuring, feedback from other managers (as sometimes managers have "favourites", and they put their "favourites" forward for promotion rather than other suitable candidates in that area).

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

The problems come when people are allowed to kick up a large fuss when they don't get their own way.
People in offices still need to be available to other staff and other people such as customers and clients. That means they have to be working the same hours as those others. No getting around that.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I'm sure none of us would mind being woken at 3am when the bin men come round, or that chap in the UPS van ringing the doorbell wanting a signature for the parcel he has :D

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I disagree - when I have worked at places where flexible working was available, all requests for flexible working were constrained by having to meet business needs; if there was no negative impact from the flexible working (work gets done, customer needs met, suitable cover available, etc.), it was granted - if it was assessed (or found after agreement) to have negative impact, it wasn’t granted.

We found flexible working improved work/life balance, reduced absence rates, improved staff retention, and made for happier & more productive colleagues.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Even in those 2 "examples", they require others to be working at the same time as them. Even the delivery driver has to have the depot open.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Well obviously, but if enough people there request silly hours, and it works for the company, why not? ;)

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Flexible working cannot work where there has to be some sort of interaction or cooperation. You can't be working on something and then suddenly find it needs the involvement of somebody else. The task grinds to a halt and is delayed overall.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Workplaces generally have online diaries so you know when people are in or out. If you suddenly find you can't progress in your task and are surprised by it you probably have an inflexible work methodology yourself.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Again, I have to disagree - I have seen (and made) it work. You’re assuming only one person has each set of skills required in a team/department, when in a lot of cases, colleagues are multi-skilled, and self-manage workloads, knowing when people are available (also, usually people who had flexible working arrangements could be contacted if problems arose, because flexibility works both ways).

I have run departments of over 300 people, of which 5-10% had flexible working arrangements, and there were no insurmountable issues (because, as previously stated, working arrangements had to meet business needs).

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I have made at least five flexible working requests in my current job.

All have been granted (the last one was to work 4 days a week instead of 5) :)

In the last month, almost all of my current team have requested permanant WFH.
We have been doing it for the last 18 months, so there is clearly no justification to deny it.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Surely if someone is working from home the expenses bill must be reduced? There must be savings to be made?

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Of course it can how do you think global engineering/development teams collaborate ? Pop on a plane and fly to another continent every time they need to

Zoom
WebEx
Chime
Slack

All the above can provide effective collaboration, just as effectively as being in an office

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

My last job had zero flexibility, and would close rather than be forced to.


We did a 9 day fortnight, which gave us every other Friday off.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Indeedy. But what’s wrong with knocking on the boss’s door and just asking? It really isn’t hard.

Having worked in HR previously, I have to say that this is a very straight forward matter which can be agreed if the request is feasible and confirmed in a letter.

No need to make heavy work of it.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

It’s a contractual change/addendum requiring signatures from both parties.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

That doesn’t mean you have to have the bureaucracy of formal procedures to request the change, though, does it?

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

If you’re changing a contract, yes. The request must be formally documented. It protects the business & the employee from a I said/they said situation.

More often than not, it’s not the immediate line manager that would make the decision anyways

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

If there’s no formal procedure/documentation, what happens when the manager moves on, and forgets to tell his successor about all the numerous informal agreements they’ve made?

Anyway, flexible working has to be equitable, so you can’t have some managers in a company deciding they’re not going to allow it (not for reasons based on business reasons, but they just don’t like the idea), and other managers allowing it because they believe it works; this would be disadvantaging some employees for no reason other than personal bias about flexible working.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Now, we could really open a can of worms with compressed hours :D:D:D

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

And job-sharing… ;)

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I have seen job sharing work very well in education.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Never worked for large national or multi national companies then ?

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Can tell you haven't been in an office for a while OB. The boss doesn't have a door any longer ( or desk if you've got in early and nabbed it ! ;) )

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

I usually found a cosy chat at the Lyon's Corner House or over a chicken basket meal and a pint of Red Barrel at the Berni Inn does the trick. Call me old-fashioned. :)

Joking apart, open-plan offices may have been flavour of the month in the 21st century, but I wonder if Covid will alter that?

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Where did I say that the contractual change should not be in writing?

What I am arguing is that an employer really should not be legally required to have set procedures to process requests.

All that should be required is an employee request, manager agrees or not, and confirmation in writing. There is no need to make it more complicated than that.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Can I ask - how long ago did you work in HR, and how big was the company/department?

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

looks like we're heading for a HR off - how big was yours blaa blaa blaa;)

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Your input, as always, is appreciated.

Who would think that experience and knowledge of a situation would be useful in a discussion, when, like you, people can just use non-sequiturs and irrelevant comments.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Personally I think a HR off is always relevant :)

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Six years ago, and we were serving 3,000 staff.

Before the bureaucratic legislation requiring us to introduce a procedure, if a member of staff wanted to request a change, they simply asked us or their manager, and if it was agreed, we would issue a letter confirming the arrangement.

But then in came legislation which basically required us to write a policy and have the employee put the request in writing, and management had to respond in writing within 7 days I think it was, and only then did we issue the variation to contract letter.

What a palaver for such a straight forward request.

Heaven help us if they decide a procedure is needed to request time off to go to the loo.

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

Yes, because those two things are so similar…

Re: Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day
 

May I remind everyone this is about starting a NEW job with a NEW employer..not requests of an existing employer for an existing old job..