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Hugh 24-05-2021 10:18
Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-5722445
Quote:
Western countries have condemned Belarus for diverting a plane flying over it territory to arrest a Belarusian opposition journalist.

EU leaders are due to discuss their response to what the union's executive called a "hijacking" and the US state department said was "a shocking act".

Belarus scrambled a fighter jet to force the plane - bound for Lithuania - to land, claiming a bomb threat.

Police came and took Roman Protasevich away when passengers disembarked.

The 26-year-old was aboard the Ryanair plane, which was flying from the Greek ]capital, Athens. The aircraft was due to land in Vilnius, but was still in Belarusian airspace when it was told to divert it to their own capital, Minsk.

Witnesses said the activist was "super-scared" and told fellow passengers he would face the death penalty.

State media in Belarus said President Alexander Lukashenko had personally given the order for the move. The plane landed in Vilnius more than six hours after its scheduled arrival.
Quote:
How was the flight diverted?

Flight FR4978 turned east to Minsk shortly before it reached the Lithuanian border. Greece and Lithuania put the number of passengers on board at 171.

In a statement, Ryanair said the crew had been "notified by Belarus (Air Traffic Control) of a potential security threat on board and were instructed to divert to the nearest airport, Minsk".

But Tadeusz Giczan - the editor of Nexta, the media outlet Mr Protasevich used to work for - tweeted that agents from Belarusian security service the KGB had boarded the plane and were the source of the bomb alert.

The flight path, visible on the Flightradar24 website, suggests the plane was actually nearer to Vilnius than Minsk when it turned.

Ryanair said checks in Minsk found "nothing untoward", but made no mention of Mr Protasevich.

Taf 24-05-2021 11:13
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Landing at Minsk instead of Vilnius? That's about 100 miles, not bad for a Ryanair flight. ;)

Sephiroth 24-05-2021 14:19
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Air piracy. Belavia should be immediately be thrown out of IATA and be banned from overflight of any free world territory (many counties will accord with that).

How to enforce that may become a challenge. I can imagine Belarus getting up to all sorts of tricks like stuffing a plane full of political prisoners and then flying over NATO countries to dare air forces to shoot it down.

An immediate trade embargo, of course. Immediate embargo on Irish export goods to Belarus transiting Ulster. The usual stuff.

Discourse needs to be made with Russia, as publicly as possible, in order to get Putin onside. "Pissing in the wind" I hear from Hugh? Perhaps the might be right this time. But putting Putin on the spot is a necessity too.

TheDaddy 24-05-2021 15:07
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36080576)
Air piracy. Belavia should be immediately be thrown out of IATA and be banned from overflight of any free world territory (many counties will accord with that).

How to enforce that may become a challenge. I can imagine Belarus getting up to all sorts of tricks like stuffing a plane full of political prisoners and then flying over NATO countries to dare air forces to shoot it down.

An immediate trade embargo, of course. Immediate embargo on Irish export goods to Belarus transiting Ulster. The usual stuff.

Discourse needs to be made with Russia, as publicly as possible, in order to get Putin onside. "Pissing in the wind" I hear from Hugh? Perhaps the might be right this time. But putting Putin on the spot is a necessity too.
How do we "get Putin on side", he wants Belarus to join his Russian Empire, what are we going to offer to top that, half of Poland

Sephiroth 24-05-2021 15:22
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36080580)
How do we "get Putin on side", he wants Belarus to join his Russian Empire, what are we going to offer to top that, half of Poland
Putin only stoops to murder. It's worth putting him on the spot.

OLD BOY 24-05-2021 17:11
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36080581)
Putin only stoops to murder. It's worth putting him on the spot.
Putin doesn't care. He is proud of Lukashenko for what he has done.

Tackle Putin on these issues and he just smirks. He loves playing the bad boy.

1andrew1 24-05-2021 17:48
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36080594)
Putin doesn't care. He is proud of Lukashenko for what he has done.

Tackle Putin on these issues and he just smirks. He loves playing the bad boy.
Agreed.

Sephiroth 24-05-2021 17:51
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Got to be done, though. Can't keep pretending we're all mates.

1andrew1 24-05-2021 21:06
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36080601)
Got to be done, though. Can't keep pretending we're all mates.
Sorry Seph but Old Boy has called this right. Belarus and Russia are closely intertwined.
Quote:
Raab points finger at Russia over Belarus ‘hijack’ and arrest of journalist

The Foreign Secretary pointed to the close relationship between Moscow and Minsk.

It is “very difficult to believe” the arrest of a prominent critic of the Belarus regime from a Ryanair flight could have taken place “without at least the acquiescence of the authorities in Moscow”, the Foreign Secretary has said.

Aircraft have been instructed to avoid Belarusian air space following the “state-sponsored hijack” of the flight on Sunday.

Dominic Raab said that although the situation was not yet clear, the relationship between Minsk and Moscow suggested Russian leaders may have been aware of the plans in advance.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/d...s-b936979.html

Maggy 24-05-2021 22:35
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36080643)
Sorry Seph but Old Boy has called this right. Belarus and Russia are closely intertwined.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/d...s-b936979.html
So? Does that mean we just roll over for sky piracy? I don't think so.We have to have international rules or there will be anarchy across the skies.

1andrew1 24-05-2021 22:59
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36080652)
So? Does that mean we just roll over for sky piracy? I don't think so.We have to have international rules or there will be anarchy across the skies.
Old Boy, TheDaddy and I are all arguing that these two countries are so aligned that Putin's not going to take any action against Belarus. Putin was probably briefed on the operation. It doesn't mean that we wouldn't want him to take action against Belarus though.

As to what can be done, I don't think anyone has an answer yet. The work-around seems to be to avoid Belarus airspace and the long-term aim must be to encourage democracy to flourish throughout the world.

Sephiroth 24-05-2021 23:40
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36080655)
Old Boy, TheDaddy and I are all arguing that these two countries are so aligned that Putin's not going to take any action against Belarus. Putin was probably briefed on the operation. It doesn't mean that we wouldn't want him to take action against Belarus though.

As to what can be done, I don't think anyone has an answer yet. The work-around seems to be to avoid Belarus airspace and the long-term aim must be to encourage democracy to flourish throughout the world.
I've already suggested what can be done by removing Belavia from IATA and blacklisting all transport forms from Belarus into or over the EU etc.

As to Putin, I've suggested we try and then see what that brings, including incrimination.

Quote:
long-term aim must be to encourage democracy to flourish throughout the world.
Yeah right. That's like dealing with Putin!

1andrew1 25-05-2021 00:05
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Will be interesting to see if the UK, US, Canada etc follow suit.

Quote:
EU agrees sanctions on Belarus for forcing down flight

Brussels bans state airline as White House demands inquiry into dissident’s detention

Brussels agreed to ramp up sanctions against Belarus and ban its state airline from EU airports after the Minsk regime triggered global uproar by intercepting a Ryanair flight carrying an opposition activist.

European leaders agreed to “targeted” economic measures that are expected to be aimed at companies and oligarchs accused of financing President Alexander Lukashenko’s 27-year rule.

At a meeting in Brussels on Monday night, the 27-member bloc called for the immediate release of Roman Protasevich, the leading opposition activist, and his partner, Sofia Sapega, who were on the Ryanair flight from Athens to Vilnius and detained in Minsk on Sunday after authorities forced the aircraft to land.
https://www.ft.com/content/147532bc-...b-748520be6633

Carth 25-05-2021 10:54
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
I'm sure that a strongly worded letter from the hugely influential EU will soon put them in their place.

Failing that, just don't sell them any fish . . problem solved :D

Hugh 25-05-2021 13:16
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36080686)
I'm sure that a strongly worded letter from the hugely influential EU will soon put them in their place.

Failing that, just don't sell them any fish . . problem solved :D
You must have missed this bit… ;)
Quote:
European leaders agreed to “targeted” economic measures that are expected to be aimed at companies and oligarchs accused of financing President Alexander Lukashenko’s 27-year rule.

Carth 25-05-2021 13:36
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
I didn't 'miss' anything ;)

Tell me please, maybe with examples, of what sort of “targeted economic measures" could be aimed at "companies and oligarchs" that might make them do a complete about face . . . without potentially causing harm to the people of Belarus that (probably) rely on them.

1andrew1 25-05-2021 13:52
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36080709)
I didn't 'miss' anything ;)

Tell me please, maybe with examples, of what sort of “targeted economic measures" could be aimed at "companies and oligarchs" that might make them do a complete about face . . . without potentially causing harm to the people of Belarus that (probably) rely on them.
Hopefully you can now appreciate why the funding of a Prime Minister's house redecoration matters.

If it was by a Belarussian oligarch, you can understand why that prime Minister but not be first off the block to apply economic sanctions.

papa smurf 25-05-2021 14:06
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36080711)
Hopefully you can now appreciate why the funding of a Prime Minister's house redecoration matters.

If it was by a Belarussian oligarch, you can understand why that prime Minister but not be first off the block to apply economic sanctions.
oilycarp wallpaper

Carth 25-05-2021 14:15
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36080711)
Hopefully you can now appreciate why the funding of a Prime Minister's house redecoration matters.

If it was by a Belarussian oligarch, you can understand why that prime Minister but not be first off the block to apply economic sanctions.
Well done Andrew, you spotted another occasion where you can have a pop at the Govt.

Mind you, the (sub) topic I remarked on was in your previous post . . EU agrees sanctions on Belarus for forcing down flight . . and, as you may have lately noticed, we (as in Boris etc) are not in the EU :p:

1andrew1 25-05-2021 14:32
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36080715)
Well done Andrew, you spotted another occasion where you can have a pop at the Govt.

Mind you, the (sub) topic I remarked on was in your previous post . . EU agrees sanctions on Belarus for forcing down flight . . and, as you may have lately noticed, we (as in Boris etc) are not in the EU :p:
Not really, an explanation to help in the understanding why transparency in such matters is important. Politicising it is a weak defence of a robust principal that all parties should adhere to and I prefer to hold those in power to account and not give them a free pass because I voted for them.

Hugh 25-05-2021 14:36
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36080709)
I didn't 'miss' anything ;)

Tell me please, maybe with examples, of what sort of “targeted economic measures" could be aimed at "companies and oligarchs" that might make them do a complete about face . . . without potentially causing harm to the people of Belarus that (probably) rely on them.
You mean like freezing their overseas bank accounts, so they can't access their funny money?

The "people of Belarus" are out in the streets protesting about their dictatorship of a Government, and want other countries support.

Carth 25-05-2021 15:00
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Good answer, let's freeze their 'assets' . . . I'm sure they then won't be petty enough to 'temporarily' close down the main gas supply routes for maintenance purposes :D

Sephiroth 25-05-2021 15:15
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36080721)
You mean like freezing their overseas bank accounts, so they can't access their funny money?

The "people of Belarus" are out in the streets protesting about their dictatorship of a Government, and want other countries support.
Instead of sarcing others, what practical support do you suggest? What support that will work and change things?

Carth asked for examples which you dodged.

1andrew1 25-05-2021 16:18
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36080729)
Instead of sarcing others, what practical support do you suggest? What support that will work and change things?

Carth asked for examples which you dodged.
Hugh did make some robust suggestions in the post you quoted. :confused:

I think it's hard to hold these rogue states to account easily. I guess now Belavia will fly to the UK and then passengers can catch a connecting flight to an EU state.

I can't think of a country in the last 30 years that's changed positively as a result of sanctions but that's not to say it's not happened. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be tried. Certainly, it could be seen as motivating to opposition leaders in the country itself.

Sephiroth 25-05-2021 16:29
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36080736)
Hugh did make some robust suggestions in the post you quoted. :confused:

I think it's hard to hold these rogue states to account easily. I guess now Belavia will fly to the UK and then passengers can catch a connecting flight to an EU state.

I can't think of a country in the last 30 years that's changed positively as a result of sanctions but that's not to say it's not happened. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be tried. Certainly, it could be seen as motivating to opposition leaders in the country itself.
I’ve got to the point with him that if there’s a hint of sarcastic tone, then sarcasm has been fully deployed.

To your substantive point, Cuba might be coming about right.


1andrew1 25-05-2021 16:36
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36080738)
I’ve got to the point with him that if there’s a hint of sarcastic tone, then sarcasm has been fully deployed.

To your substantive point, Cuba might be coming about right.

Good call on Cuba.

Hugh 25-05-2021 18:42
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36080738)
I’ve got to the point with him that if there’s a hint of sarcastic tone, then sarcasm has been fully deployed.

To your substantive point, Cuba might be coming about right.

Unconscious bias - you want to watch that… ;)

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36080725)
Good answer, let's freeze their 'assets' . . . I'm sure they then won't be petty enough to 'temporarily' close down the main gas supply routes for maintenance purposes :D
Russians won’t let them - it’s the only thing keeping their economy afloat…

Chris 25-05-2021 20:15
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36080736)
Hugh did make some robust suggestions in the post you quoted. :confused:

I think it's hard to hold these rogue states to account easily. I guess now Belavia will fly to the UK and then passengers can catch a connecting flight to an EU state.

I can't think of a country in the last 30 years that's changed positively as a result of sanctions but that's not to say it's not happened. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be tried. Certainly, it could be seen as motivating to opposition leaders in the country itself.
The UK responded quite a bit faster than the EU and had already banned Belavia from coming to the UK by teatime yesterday. In several posts in this thread you have implied that the UK needs to catch up with EU decisions sanctioning Belarus while in reality it's the EU that is in the UK's shadow. This is unsurprising, seeing as we don't have to convene a meeting of 27 heads of government before doing anything. You might try removing your blue-and-gold tinted glasses before commenting further.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b1852919.html

Mr K 25-05-2021 20:35
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36080769)
The UK responded quite a bit faster than the EU and had already banned Belavia from coming to the UK by teatime yesterday. In several posts in this thread you have implied that the UK needs to catch up with EU decisions sanctioning Belarus while in reality it's the EU that is in the UK's shadow. This is unsurprising, seeing as we don't have to convene a meeting of 27 heads of government before doing anything. You might try removing your blue-and-gold tinted glasses before commenting further.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b1852919.html
In real terms we'll do diddly squat just like we've done diddly squat about state sponsored terrorism on our own soil.

We're a small, weak insignificant country these days. Weak prey to Putin and buddies, its a long game they've been playing for a few years now by interfering in our democracy. Divide and conquer.

Paul 25-05-2021 23:34
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Always good to see your high opinion of your country :erm:

Carth 26-05-2021 10:12
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Maybe he's one of those pesky Russian internet trolls, it might be an idea to double check his account details . . he certainly seems to have been a sleeper :D

Hom3r 26-05-2021 10:49
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36080576)
Air piracy. Belavia should be immediately be thrown out of IATA and be banned from overflight of any free world territory (many counties will accord with that).
The IATA is Primary for safety.

Just simply put them on the banned from European airspace, this would stop them.

There are several African countries on this list purely down to the fact their maintenance is dire.

They can only enter under Mayday and then when the plane is on the ground it stays there until it is fixed to the standards. Many are quietly rusting are airfields, as they'll cost too much and on top of that there are the parking fees.

TheDaddy 26-05-2021 17:36
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36080803)
The IATA is Primary for safety.

Just simply put them on the banned from European airspace, this would stop them.

There are several African countries on this list purely down to the fact their maintenance is dire.

They can only enter under Mayday and then when the plane is on the ground it stays there until it is fixed to the standards. Many are quietly rusting are airfields, as they'll cost too much and on top of that there are the parking fees.
The parking fees is interesting, around £500 a time they're missing out on

Hom3r 26-05-2021 19:50
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36080892)
The parking fees is interesting, around £500 a time they're missing out on

Some charge daily.

Mad Max 26-05-2021 20:17
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Get a drone in and take the ****er out.

Carth 26-05-2021 20:24
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36080931)
Get a drone in and take the ****er out.
. . . and then deny all knowledge :D

Mad Max 26-05-2021 20:28
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36080933)
. . . and then deny all knowledge :D
Of course, the drone was hijacked..:D

1andrew1 26-05-2021 20:39
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36080931)
Get a drone in and take the ****er out.
Send the SAS in, take out Lukashenko, rescue Protasevich then sell the film rights. ;)

Paul 27-05-2021 00:11
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Why would we send the SAS to rescue a Belarusian ?

mrmistoffelees 27-05-2021 12:38
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36080938)
Send the SAS in, take out Lukashenko, rescue Protasevich then sell the film rights. ;)
Now, i realise you're joshing... But would that not technically be war for regime change? Isn't that illegal ?

1andrew1 27-05-2021 13:20
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36081005)
Now, i realise you're joshing... But would that not technically be war for regime change? Isn't that illegal ?
Yes, I was joking. :D

Murdering someone would surely be illegal whether it was for regime change or not. But if it resulted in a regime change then I suspect Belarus may not push the issue.

mrmistoffelees 27-05-2021 13:21
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36081017)
Yes, I was joking. :D

Murdering someone would surely be illegal whether it was for regime change or not. But if it resulted in a regime change then I suspect Belarus may not push the issue.
I think Russia may want a word though.... :p:

Carth 27-05-2021 13:32
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36081018)
I think Russia may want a word though.... :p:
They've already denied any involvement in whatever happens . . it wasn't us, we were nowhere near, we've been framed :D

Mick 27-05-2021 14:35
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
BREAKING: Russia is reportedly stopping EU flights from entering Russian airspace - IF those airplanes have circumnavigated Belarusian airspace on the way.
Bearing in mind the size of Russian airspace, and the position of Belarus - that's a significant move. Source: Adam Parsons Brussels reporter, Sky News.

Chris 27-05-2021 14:40
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
So, back to the Soviet days then. It’s inconvenient but entirely possible to route around Russia. I suspect an escalation against them on the same lines will inconvenience them more than us.

Pierre 27-05-2021 14:47
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Oh a new Cold War on the Horizon. Maybe the RAF will get the Tempest project given a green light then.

Chris 27-05-2021 15:08
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Another thought .... it’s not quite the Soviet days. They no longer control great chunks of Central Asia so long-haul flight diversions won’t be as onerous as they were in the 1980s.

TheDaddy 27-05-2021 16:43
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36081034)
Another thought .... it’s not quite the Soviet days. They no longer control great chunks of Central Asia so long-haul flight diversions won’t be as onerous as they were in the 1980s.
I thought all those funny named stan countries had Russian puppets in charge of them

Sephiroth 27-05-2021 21:27
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36081053)
I thought all those funny named stan countries had Russian puppets in charge of them
What? As in Pakistan? Afghanistan?

TheDaddy 28-05-2021 02:20
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36081074)
What? As in Pakistan? Afghanistan?
No

Carth 28-05-2021 08:39
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36081103)
No
Are you sure?

Chris 28-05-2021 09:57
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Pakistan and Afghanistan were never part of the USSR. Central Asian states like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan were.

1andrew1 28-05-2021 10:03
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36081120)
Pakistan and Afghanistan were never part of the USSR. Central Asian states like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan were.
Those ex-USSR states may not be bastions of democracy, but they're certainly not as aligned to Russia as they were in Soviet days.

Carth 28-05-2021 10:15
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Gosh it's all so confusing for me.
On one hand we have Russia plotting to take over the World, on the other hand they have far less influence than before . .

I'm lost as to whether I should check under the bed or in the wardrobe :erm:

Hugh 28-05-2021 11:03
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36081123)
Gosh it's all so confusing for me.
On one hand we have Russia plotting to take over the World, on the other hand they have far less influence than before . .

I'm lost as to whether I should check under the bed or in the wardrobe :erm:
The first is because of the second.

They’re not trying to take over the world, they’re trying to gain influence in neighbouring countries (sometimes by annexing parts of them, sometimes by supplying arms to local "militia" (who aren’t Russian mercenaries, honest), and also causing disruption in Western democracies by cyberwarfare and misinformation.

If they can’t be strong again, make others weaker…

Hope this helps… ;)

Carth 28-05-2021 11:43
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36081125)
The first is because of the second.

They’re not trying to take over the world, they’re trying to gain influence in neighbouring countries (sometimes by annexing parts of them, sometimes by supplying arms to local "militia" (who aren’t Russian mercenaries, honest), and also causing disruption in Western democracies by cyberwarfare and misinformation.

If they can’t be strong again, make others weaker…

Hope this helps… ;)
Not really, but thanks for trying . . . bed or wardrobe?

:D

Hugh 28-05-2021 14:30
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Both…;)

Where Ivan is involved, you can never be too careful.

(I would strongly recommend checking them with a friend or family member, because if you do it on your own, those wily Speznatz will sneak around behind you whilst you are checking one, before you check the other).

:)

Carth 28-05-2021 15:49
Re: Belarus accused of hijacking plane
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36081140)
Both…;)

Where Ivan is involved, you can never be too careful.

(I would strongly recommend checking them with a friend or family member, because if you do it on your own, those wily Speznatz will sneak around behind you whilst you are checking one, before you check the other).

:)
got it now thanks, I'll make the wife go first :D


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