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-   -   Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709718)

1andrew1 22-01-2021 18:49
Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
I suspect he will savour his time in the limelight again.
Quote:
Trump impeachment: Senate trial poised to start next week

Donald Trump's impeachment trial over his role in the deadly US Capitol riot is poised to begin next week in the Senate, according to Democrats.

On Monday, the House of Representatives will deliver the impeachment charge to the Senate, triggering the trial process in the 100-member chamber.

Republicans had argued for a delay, asking for more time to prepare.

Mr Trump's upcoming trial will be the only one ever to have taken place after a president has left office.

Mr Trump flew to Florida as his term ended on Wednesday, skipping his successor Joe Biden's inauguration.

The House of Representatives last week charged Mr Trump with inciting a deadly riot at the US Capitol, paving the way for a Senate trial. If convicted, he could be barred from future office.

Top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer said on Friday that the House would deliver the impeachment article on Monday. Unless Democrats, who took control of the Senate this week, change the rules, it will mean Mr Trump's trial will begin on Tuesday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55761044

jfman 23-01-2021 01:47
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Interesting to see prospective 2024 candidates attitude to this. Suspect most would prefer Trump out the field, without perhaps voting for it themselves.

Little Marco and Ted with the ugly wife might fancy their chances at 2024 in a Trump absent field. Have they enough friends willing to do their bidding, enough Republican Senators planning to retire or fancying a career change or in Democrat leaning states that might want to appeal to the middle and not the fringe of the right wing.

Appealing to the fringe might not necessarily be helpful with Republicans down ballot out-performing Trump and the outcome in the Georgia Senate run offs showing Democrats better at turning out the vote.

Julian 23-01-2021 01:54
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
What is this obsession with yank stuff?????

Who in the UK royally gives a flying funk?

Heartily sick of them and now yet another pointless thread.............

jfman 23-01-2021 02:29
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
American politics is great banter. It makes us seem almost sane.

papa smurf 23-01-2021 10:08
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36067654)
American politics is great banter. It makes us seem almost sane.
It shows the dangers of independence ;)

Hom3r 23-01-2021 13:02
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Google the John Cleese letter to revoke US independence. It is very funny

Pierre 23-01-2021 13:54
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
I think most of the US would prefer their politicians to get on with sorting the country out rather than obsessing about Trump.

Mick 23-01-2021 14:01
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36067687)
I think most of the US would prefer their politicians to get on with sorting the country out rather than obsessing about Trump.
It’s a waste of time. But that is the pathetic Democrats for you.

For conviction to succeed they need to carry 17 GOP Senators with them. I count about 5 or 7 that might do. It’s not enough. It will be an embarrassing failure, all in Biden’s 100 days in office. :rolleyes:

pip08456 23-01-2021 14:39
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36067675)
Google the John Cleese letter to revoke US independence. It is very funny
Really Hom3r?

Quote:
Former Monty Python member John Cleese did not pen a satirical piece announcing the revocation of America's independence for failure to elect a competent president.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/re...-independence/

1andrew1 23-01-2021 14:59
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36067662)
It shows the dangers of independence ;)
:D

---------- Post added at 13:59 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36067652)
Interesting to see prospective 2024 candidates attitude to this. Suspect most would prefer Trump out the field, without perhaps voting for it themselves.

Little Marco and Ted with the ugly wife might fancy their chances at 2024 in a Trump absent field. Have they enough friends willing to do their bidding, enough Republican Senators planning to retire or fancying a career change or in Democrat leaning states that might want to appeal to the middle and not the fringe of the right wing.

Appealing to the fringe might not necessarily be helpful with Republicans down ballot out-performing Trump and the outcome in the Georgia Senate run offs showing Democrats better at turning out the vote.
I appreciate that people feel the need to impeach Trump to set a precedent for future presidents who may be tempted to do anything similar. This is a worthy aim. But tactically for the Democrats, disqualifying Trump for 2024 would remove the Trump non-Trump division in the Republican Party and making it more united and stronger party.

Hom3r 23-01-2021 15:24
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36067697)

It was a long time ago I read it and it was early 2000's

Paul 23-01-2021 23:36
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
The trial doesnt start until February, I see no point in yet another US/Trump topic until then, its already been discussed to death.

Closed for now.

Mick 26-01-2021 12:39
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
1 Attachment(s)
Couple of bits of Trump news prompting reopening of this topic.

Article of impeachment “Incite to insurrection of Capitol building” has been forwarded to Senate. Trial to begin in two weeks. Chief Justice Roberts has refused to reside over it, so Democrat Senator Leahy is to chair the hearing. Republican Senator Rand Paul has proclaimed this is a sham impeachment trial, President Biden has stated he doubts the Senate would convict Trump but the trial should still go ahead.

Meanwhile, former U.S President Donald Trump, last night announced the opening of “The office of former President Donald Trump” saying it will be the source of announcements, events, appearances and other news.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1611661095

papa smurf 26-01-2021 12:46
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
No matter how many times I watch trumps speech i can't find the bit where he incites insurrection...

plus how can they impeach a private citizen, surely impeachment is for sitting presidents, and the law courts are for ex presidents.

Chris 26-01-2021 13:12
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36068256)
No matter how many times I watch trumps speech i can't find the bit where he incites insurrection...

plus how can they impeach a private citizen, surely impeachment is for sitting presidents, and the law courts are for ex presidents.
They impeached a sitting president. What follows in two weeks is the trial based on the impeachment. There is constitutional precedent for it, though if the Senate does convict him I expect it will end up in the Supreme Court.

Pierre 26-01-2021 13:52
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
I completely fail to see what the Democrats think they're going to get out of this. The best thing to do would just let Trump dissolve away.

He's so toxic right now that he'll probably be bankrupt within a few years. The sooner he's gone and forgotten the sooner the US can move on.

This is not healing a divided nation as promised by Biden.

Chris 26-01-2021 13:57
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36068276)
I completely fail to see what the Democrats think they're going to get out of this. The best thing to do would just let Trump dissolve away.

He's so toxic right now that he'll probably be bankrupt within a few years. The sooner he's gone and forgotten the sooner the US can move on.

This is not healing a divided nation as promised by Biden.
Political parties in the US don’t have the same level of central control as they do here. Biden couldn’t just phone up the dems in Congress and tell them to stop. Also, impeachment and trial are matters for the legislative branch and Americans love their separation of powers. If Biden lacked the authority within the party to stop it, he certainly lacks the authority as chief executive to do so.

Mick 26-01-2021 14:06
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36068265)
They impeached a sitting president. What follows in two weeks is the trial based on the impeachment. There is constitutional precedent for it, though if the Senate does convict him I expect it will end up in the Supreme Court.
There is no precedent for convicting any former president, there is for a judge or other low ranking federal official, who probably had financial constraints to take this to the Supreme Court, had they done so, would probably won, it is not Constitutional, it is irrelevant if they impeached him in the House of Representatives, the Senate lost it's jurisdiction the moment Trump's term ended and became a private citizen.

Damien 26-01-2021 14:09
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
If there is a conviction it'll certainly end up in the Supreme Court.

Mick 26-01-2021 14:29
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36068280)
If there is a conviction it'll certainly end up in the Supreme Court.
There will not be, while Republicans were repulsed at the Capitol Riot, if they impeach one of their own, who just happened to garner 75,000,000 votes, beating any other Republican sitting president, they would be committing political suicide, while I do think a handful of GOP Senators will vote to convict, it will be nowhere near the 17 required to reach the super majority to convict.

This is just another embarrassing move by the Democrats, a political party that has lost it's way.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:15 ----------

Republican Senator Rubio just tweeted:

Quote:
Waste of time impeachment isn’t about accountability

It’s about demands from vengeance from the radical left

And a new “show” for the “Political Entertainment Industry”
Democrats are going to struggle getting 17 Republicans on their side.

1andrew1 26-01-2021 14:32
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36068280)
If there is a conviction it'll certainly end up in the Supreme Court.
And I'll end up in Tesco's Champagne section. :D

But on a more serious note, I agree with others that it's not a good strategical move for the Democrats. Let the Republican Party fight amongst themselves and let the Democrats focus on delivering on their agenda.

Mick 26-01-2021 14:48
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
More GOP Senator Feedback on impeachment:

Republican Senator, Bill Hagerty:

Quote:
My Democrat colleagues have decided that pursuing a trial against a former President is of greater importance than helping those struggling right now as we battle a pandemic and an associated economic recession— Beltway games if you ask me. They should check their priorities!
Republican Senator, Ron Johnson:

Quote:
I will work with other like-minded Republican senators to challenge the constitutionality of this vindictive #impeachment trial before it begins.
Republican Senator, Roger Wicker:

Quote:
I will vote to dismiss this article of impeachment against President Trump.
Republican Senator, Rand Paul:

Quote:
I object to this unconstitutional sham of an “impeachment” trial and I will force a vote on whether the Senate can hold a trial of a private citizen.
Republican Senator, Rick Scott:

Quote:
This impeachment is nothing more than political theater. The Democrats are confusing the U.S. Capitol, where we should be helping the American people, with another big white building in DC that specializes in theater and shows…. the Kennedy Center. It's time to get back to work.

richard s 26-01-2021 15:32
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Republican bigots... most are two faced bum lickers ... Trump needs to be taught a lesson period.

Chris 26-01-2021 15:51
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36068288)
More GOP Senator Feedback on impeachment:

Republican Senator, Bill Hagerty:



Republican Senator, Ron Johnson:



Republican Senator, Roger Wicker:



Republican Senator, Rand Paul:



Republican Senator, Rick Scott:
So that’s 5 of 50 declared. 45 still to declare, and only 17 of them need to vote with the democrats to convict. Thinking again about this I can see why the dems are going for it now - 17 Republicans is indeed a tall order, but it may be achievable while the scars of the insurrection are still visible.

Mick 26-01-2021 15:55
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36068303)
So that’s 5 of 50 declared. 45 still to declare, and only 17 of them need to vote with the democrats to convict. Thinking again about this I can see why the dems are going for it now - 17 Republicans is indeed a tall order, but it may be achievable while the scars of the insurrection are still visible.
Nope it will not happen and Chris - don't do that - I haven't just got ones that have declared at all - That is a few selection of GOP Senators, more have expressed disdain at this unconstitutional impeachment.

1andrew1 26-01-2021 16:02
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
The second impeachment has already happened hasn't it, as that can only be done to a sitting President?

We're now looking at the Senate trial but I do think that 17 Republicans is a tough ask.

Sephiroth 26-01-2021 16:06
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
It's a divisive mistake. And I don't like Trump.

If he's incited riot, then criminal investigation should follow.

Dave42 26-01-2021 16:17
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36068306)
The second impeachment has already happened hasn't it, as that can only be done to a sitting President?

We're now looking at the Senate trial but I do think that 17 Republicans is a tough ask.
yes he was impeached while president it just trial starting with him as ex president and see Rudy Giuliani is getting sued for $1.3 Billion for false claim about Dominion Voting Systems about vote fraud

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/25/p...ani/index.html

Mick 26-01-2021 16:30
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36068309)
*yes he was impeached while president it just trial starting with him as ex president and see Rudy Giuliani is getting sued for $1.3 Billion for false claim about Dominion Voting Systems about vote fraud

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/25/p...ani/index.html
Rudy litigation case has nothing to with this topic. Stay on topic.

* A trial in which the Supreme Court Chief Justice is himself, is refusing to reside, probably because he knows it's damn well unconstitutional. Again, it is irrelevant that while he was in office he was the sitting president when they voted to impeach him, once his term ended, yes, ended, he did not resign, the Senate lacked Constitutional Jurisdiction to try a former president-now private citizen.

If we are going to start precedents for impeachment proceedings against former presidents, let's start with Bush and Obama for the middle east crisis that left a vacuum for Isis to thrive and flourish. :rolleyes:

Paul 26-01-2021 19:03
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Its hard to see this actually going anywhere.
I'm sure most involved wish Trump would just fade away.
Im sure hes loving still being in the limelight, whatever the reason.

Mick 26-01-2021 22:14
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
BREAKING: 45 Republican Senators just voted to end the “unconstitutional” impeachment trial of former U.S President Donald Trump.

Republican Senator Rand Paul states:

Quote:
The Senate just voted on my constitutional point of order.

45 Senators agreed that this sham of a “trial” is unconstitutional.

That is more than will be needed to acquit and to eventually end this partisan impeachment process.

This “trial” is dead on arrival in the Senate.

Mr K 27-01-2021 08:32
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36068351)
BREAKING: 45 Republican Senators just voted to end the “unconstitutional” impeachment trial of former U.S President Donald Trump.

Republican Senator Rand Paul states:
BREAKING: 55 Senators vote to continue trial....

Tbh its not much of a 'trial' if everybody has decided how they're going to vote in advance regardless of evidence. The main thing influencing some Republucans is threats to their safety unless they vote the right way.

Even Rumpole of the Bailey would struggle against such odds...

Damien 27-01-2021 10:46
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
The Democrats are probably going to go ahead anyway to try and get Republicans to cast their vote for posterity.

What will be interesting in the next couple of years is the degree to which the 5 senators who are breaking with the Republicans will vote with the Democrats on other measures. Murkowski, Collins, Romney, Sasse and Toomey.

Romney I think won't. He is a classic Republican and having already run for President and in safe seat being the Mormon Senator from Utah he is just able to do this on conviction. I don't know much about Sasse and Toomey.

But Murkowski and Collins are interesting. They're the ones who - along with McCain - stopped the Republicans form repealing Obamacare. They're already quite detached from the wider Republican Party and have strong personal votes in their home states. Collins has only just been re-elected even after being an anti-Trump Republican. Murkowski is so detached from the party that in 2010 she lost the State's Republican Primaries only for the people of Alaska to elect her anyway by writing in her name on the ballot! Which is even more impressive when you consider for a write-in vote to count they had to spell her namely correctly. So you have two Senators there who are not dependent on the Republican Machine or even the Republican base in their own states.

If Trump maintains his hold over the Republican Party then these senators may be looking across the aisle to the Democrats. If not a party switch then at least being independent senators who swing between the parties. We're talking about a Republican Party in which McConnell would be in trouble as Senate Minority Leader as he is insufficiently Trumpian.

Mick 27-01-2021 12:12
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36068376)
BREAKING: 55 Senators vote to continue trial....

Tbh its not much of a 'trial' if everybody has decided how they're going to vote in advance regardless of evidence. The main thing influencing some Republucans is threats to their safety unless they vote the right way.

Even Rumpole of the Bailey would struggle against such odds...
Stop taking the piss Mr K. :rolleyes:

45 Republicans voting to throw out Impeachment means the votes are not there for conviction. 55 is a pointless number. 67 is required. It’s not going to be a good day for the Dems. They’re Idiots.

Chris 27-01-2021 12:39
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
I don’t know. They might have hoped to win round enough republicans but they can’t have been banking on it. Given Trump’s antics in his last days in office and especially that speech before the capitol insurrection I think they will have felt compelled to impeach, and even without a subsequent conviction they have been seen to do the right thing. Even without a conviction Trump’s legacy is to be the only US president to be impeached twice.

Mick 27-01-2021 13:34
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36068396)
I don’t know. They might have hoped to win round enough republicans but they can’t have been banking on it. Given Trump’s antics in his last days in office and especially that speech before the capitol insurrection I think they will have felt compelled to impeach, and even without a subsequent conviction they have been seen to do the right thing. Even without a conviction Trump’s legacy is to be the only US president to be impeached twice.
And both will have been acquitted.

He’s been impeached By a partisan Democrat House that never got over their crooked one losing. 10 Republicans only went with Second impeachment. Out of 200, that’s an insignificant amount. His speech is protected under 1st Amendment rights. I saw the speech, it did not suggest any violence and he did say march peacefully.

Dems have incited violence, they are no angels.

Mr K 27-01-2021 14:37
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36068403)
And both will have been acquitted.

He’s been impeached By a partisan Democrat House that never got over their crooked one losing. 10 Republicans only went with Second impeachment. Out of 200, that’s an insignificant amount. His speech is protected under 1st Amendment rights. I saw the speech, it did not suggest any violence and he did say march peacefully.

Dems have incited violence, they are no angels.
They've incited violence by winning the election and deposing his holiness?

Mick 27-01-2021 15:56
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36068405)
They've incited violence by winning the election and deposing his holiness?
Get with the programme, we’re not talking about the election.

We’re talking about what of Democrat incitement to violence? …

Cory Booker incited violence when he called for his supporters to get ‘up in their face’ of Congress people.

No Democrat will ask whether Democrat Maxine Waters incited violence when she literally told her supporters, and I quote, that ”if you see a member of the Trump administration at a restaurant, at a department store, at a gas station, or anyplace, you create a crowd and you push back on them.”

Is that not incitement?

Chris 27-01-2021 16:17
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36068411)
Get with the programme, we’re not talking about the election.

We’re talking about what of Democrat incitement to violence? …

Cory Booker incited violence when he called for his supporters to get ‘up in their face’ of Congress people.

No Democrat will ask whether Democrat Maxine Waters incited violence when she literally told her supporters, and I quote, that ”if you see a member of the Trump administration at a restaurant, at a department store, at a gas station, or anyplace, you create a crowd and you push back on them.”

Is that not incitement?
Context is important. Was Maxine Waters addressing an angry mob, some of whom were armed, and did they immediately show signs of doing what she said? If yes, did she immediately move to calm them down again or did she remain silent until much later?

Lots of people say lots of stupid stuff. Sometimes people say stuff that suggests people should act in a violent manner. But there are specific conditions that have to be met before actual criminal incitement can be proven beyond doubt in court.

I think Trump has a case to answer, based on the evidence. That's not to say he's guilty, but the evidence is strong enough that it should be tried. Of course as it will be tried in the Senate, it will be settled on politics and not on evidence. In this case the politics that decide it are internal Republican concerns. Do GOP senators like the idea of Trump threatening to stand for nomination in 2024? Do they feel threatened if they act against him? That sort of thing.

Pierre 27-01-2021 17:46
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36068405)
They've incited violence by winning the election and deposing his holiness?
There are lots of examples where Democrat politicians and Supporters have said things either directly or implied.

But I'm sure they were just messing about and didn't actually want people to do anything.

especially the idea (not an organisation.....) that is ANTIFA to go out and cause trouble


https://www.kansascity.com/news/poli...167755572.html

https://www.foxnews.com/media/ayanna...icans-concerns

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael...-fight-streets

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rump-comments/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...eparation.html

https://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/...congresspeople

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2018...rump-dictator/

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...ry?id=48227090

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/23/e...use/index.html

1andrew1 27-01-2021 20:39
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36068428)
I think Chris's post #39 answers this post too.

Pierre 27-01-2021 20:58
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36068451)
I think Chris's post #39 answers this post too.
No it doesn’t.

So does it have to be that the idiots act on your words before it’s an issue?

So you’re not guilty of inciting violence until a violent act takes place?

Trump said nothing more inflammatory that what was said in those links, in some cases less inflammatory, but the difference was “some” knobheads took it upon themselves to act like knobheads.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending Trump but I hate hypocrisy. Everybody should be held to the same standard.

1andrew1 27-01-2021 21:09
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36068452)
No it doesn’t.

So does it have to be that the idiots act on your words before it’s an issue?

So you’re not guilty of inciting violence until a violent act takes place?

Trump said nothing more inflammatory that what was said in those links, in some cases less inflammatory, but the difference was “some” knobheads took it upon themselves to act like knobheads.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending Trump but I hate hypocrisy. Everybody should be held to the same standard.
If there's something these individuals should be charged with, then I'm sure they would have been by now.

Mr K 27-01-2021 21:16
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36068452)
No it doesn’t.

So does it have to be that the idiots act on your words before it’s an issue?

So you’re not guilty of inciting violence until a violent act takes place?

Trump said nothing more inflammatory that what was said in those links, in some cases less inflammatory, but the difference was “some” knobheads took it upon themselves to act like knobheads.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending Trump but I hate hypocrisy. Everybody should be held to the same standard.
If you are the leader of the 'free world" maybe you should be held to a higher standard than any old rabble rouser? He told the 'knobheads' he 'loved them', so it wasn't exactly a reprimand for killing a few innocent bystanders in the Capitol.

Mick 09-02-2021 19:46
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
BREAKING: Former U.S President Donald Trump's Impeachment trial begins.

You can watch it live here:-

Paul 09-02-2021 22:34
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070041)
You can watch it live here:-
Sounds like a cure for insomnia :angel:

Mick 10-02-2021 00:42
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
LATEST: 44 Republican Senators just voted against the Impeachment trial being Constitutional. There is the former presidents Acquittal right there.

Only 6 Republicans sided with all 50 Democrat Senators to argue it is Constitutional (Just because they voted that it is, still doesn't make it so) The trial commences tomorrow.

papa smurf 10-02-2021 09:24
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Fake trial- they do not have the authority to bring a private citizen to trial, and Trump can't be impeached as he has already been removed from office by the election.

1andrew1 10-02-2021 10:05
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36070070)
Fake trial- they do not have the authority to bring a private citizen to trial, and Trump can't be impeached as he has already been removed from office by the election.
My understanding is that this trial is to determine whether Trump commited an impeachable offence. His two record impeachments stand, whether we agree with them or not.

The Senate has voted 56-44 to proceed with this trial by rejecting Trump's legal team’s argument that the process was unconstitutional.

Will he be convicted? Conviction requires the support of two-thirds of the 100-member chamber. These things tend to fall along party lines and the vast majority of Republicans are currently opposed to the process as the 56-44 vote showed.

Mick 10-02-2021 11:27
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36070074)
My understanding is that this trial is to determine whether Trump commited an impeachable offence. His two record impeachments stand, whether we agree with them or not.

The Senate has voted 56-44 to proceed with this trial by rejecting Trump's legal team’s argument that the process was unconstitutional.

Will he be convicted? Conviction requires the support of two-thirds of the 100-member chamber. These things tend to fall along party lines and the vast majority of Republicans are currently opposed to the process as the 56-44 vote showed.
His two record Impeachment’s being acquitted actually. Let’s remember that the impeachment’s were led by a partisan house with an axe to grind. The Democrat ****, have weaponised the impeachment power and are not correctly applying it, they failed to follow due process on the second rushed impeachment. He will be acquitted but to say this fake impeachment trial is due and proper is manifestly absurd.

pip08456 10-02-2021 11:41
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070079)
His two record Impeachment’s being acquitted actually. Let’s remember that the impeachment’s were led by a partisan house with an axe to grind. The Democrat ****, have weaponised the impeachment power and are not correctly applying it, they failed to follow due process on the second rushed impeachment. He will be acquitted but to say this fake impeachment trial is due and proper is manifestly absurd.
Two Impeachments acquitted, is this trial the third?

1andrew1 10-02-2021 13:17
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070079)
His two record Impeachment’s being acquitted actually. Let’s remember that the impeachment’s were led by a partisan house with an axe to grind. The Democrat ****, have weaponised the impeachment power and are not correctly applying it, they failed to follow due process on the second rushed impeachment. He will be acquitted but to say this fake impeachment trial is due and proper is manifestly absurd.
It's not one particular party that's at fault, it's the whole partisan nature of impeachments that let the US down.

Sephiroth 10-02-2021 13:24
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36070085)
It's not one particular party that's at fault, it's the whole partisan nature of impeachments that let the US down.
It's the totally screwed up state of the union that is now letting the US down. Trailer park versus the mighty dollar. Never before has the dire result of the so-called American Dream been so starkly exposed.

Damien 10-02-2021 23:10
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
The videos being shown are pretty extraordinary though. Lots of new footage showing how bad it almost got. The latest one is the police officer directing Romney to turn around and head to safety whilst the mob was advancing in the building.

This time it's the buildings own footage so we're seeing it from the Senators side a lot more. Pictures of how close they came. Police screaming for backup and so on. It does show it was a very dangerous situation. The **** were trying to find where the lawmakers were hiding.

Sephiroth 12-02-2021 23:19
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
As you know, I'm not a Trump fan.

But, Trump's lawyers are taking the prosecution and particularly the Democrats apart.

Imo, the defence has proved to my satisfaction at least, that the prosecution's evidence would not meet the standards of a US court of law. Indeed, the prosecution's evidence includes provable falsehoods and deliberate editing of evidence.

As bad as Trump is/was as a person, this misguided and political prosecution is a disgrace that makes the Democrat Congress into a disreputable bunch.

The perpetrators of the Capitol invasion are the ones that must be prosecuted and nobody else.

The USA has lost its way.

Mick 13-02-2021 10:02
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
It’s the U.S attitude of it could never happen. Even though there were warning of a planned Capitol protest that has the potential to be violent, there should have been extra security. I don’t think the protesters expected to be so easy to get to the actual chambers of the heart of Congress.

Democrats have acted in total disgrace here, but this is their pathetic way. They haven’t followed due process. Showed selective edited video. Decided to change the actual legal definition of Inciting. But the trial itself is unconstitutional, there is a Democrat Senator, Patrick Leahy, who is a “Judge and juror”, he gets to vote as well.

Impeachment power is being abused and incorrectly applied. The text in the Constitution is explicit, the impeachment clause is for the sitting President, not a former. The fact that the Supreme Court Chief Justice refused to preside over this sham of an impeachment trial suggests he did so because it’s not Constitutional.

Angua 13-02-2021 10:58
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070391)
It’s the U.S attitude of it could never happen. Even though there were warning of a planned Capitol protest that has the potential to be violent, there should have been extra security. I don’t think the protesters expected to be so easy to get to the actual chambers of the heart of Congress.

Democrats have acted in total disgrace here, but this is their pathetic way. They haven’t followed due process. Showed selective edited video. Decided to change the actual legal definition of Inciting. But the trial itself is unconstitutional, there is a Democrat Senator, Patrick Leahy, who is a “Judge and juror”, he gets to vote as well.

Impeachment power is being abused and incorrectly applied. The text in the Constitution is explicit, the impeachment clause is for the sitting President, not a former. The fact that the Supreme Court Chief Justice refused to preside over this sham of an impeachment trial suggests he did so because it’s not Constitutional.
Then what actions should be taken against a President, who at the time of their alleged offence was still the office holder?

Doing nothing appears not to be an option, if for no other reason than to prevent it happening again.

1andrew1 13-02-2021 11:22
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Likely that Trump will be acquitted as soon as this weekend. This could be a good outcome for the Democrats as Trump can still be a contender for 2024 which will divide the Republican Party.

Sephiroth 13-02-2021 11:25
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 36070394)
Then what actions should be taken against a President, who at the time of their alleged offence was still the office holder?

Doing nothing appears not to be an option, if for no other reason than to prevent it happening again.
Try a court of law.

Mick 13-02-2021 12:16
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 36070394)
Then what actions should be taken against a President, who at the time of their alleged offence was still the office holder?

Doing nothing appears not to be an option, if for no other reason than to prevent it happening again.
Nothing can be done because of the 1st Amendment. If Trump is to be targeted for using “Fight like hell”, then so can the Democrats who used similar speech and encouraged BLM protests that saw cities and many businesses burned to the ground.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36070396)
Likely that Trump will be acquitted as soon as this weekend. This could be a good outcome for the Democrats as Trump can still be a contender for 2024 which will divide the Republican Party.
From all accounts the Biden White House is fuming. Apparently, it was overheard being said there, “I told you jackasses, this trial would blow up in our faces.”

---------- Post added at 11:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Democrats used same language as Trump. Incited attacks on him... but it’s not about whataboutism...


Angua 13-02-2021 12:56
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070398)
Nothing can be done because of the 1st Amendment. If Trump is to be targeted for using “Fight like hell”, then so can the Democrats who used similar speech and encouraged BLM protests that saw cities and many businesses burned to the ground.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 ----------



From all accounts the Biden White House is fuming. Apparently, it was overheard being said there, “I told you jackasses, this trial would blow up in our faces.”

---------- Post added at 11:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Democrats used same language as Trump. Incited attacks on him... but it’s not about whataboutism...

The two legal prongs that constitute incitement of imminent lawless action are as follows: Advocacy of force or criminal activity does not receive First Amendment protections if (1) the advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action, and (2) is likely to incite or produce such action.

Mick 13-02-2021 14:34
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 36070411)
The two legal prongs that constitute incitement of imminent lawless action are as follows: Advocacy of force or criminal activity does not receive First Amendment protections if (1) the advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action, and (2) is likely to incite or produce such action.
Which he did not do. So his speech would still be protected. Nowhere in his speech did he say. Enter the Capitol building and go after congressman and Senatiors or seize or take over power.

Chris 13-02-2021 14:37
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070422)
Which he did not do. So his speech would still be protected. Nowhere in his speech did he say. Enter the Capitol building and go after congressman and Senatiors or seize or take over power.
They wouldn’t have to prove that he gave specific directions like that though. “Lawless action” in general would be sufficient proof.

Sephiroth 13-02-2021 15:12
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36070424)
They wouldn’t have to prove that he gave specific directions like that though. “Lawless action” in general would be sufficient proof.
What lawless action do you think Trump did?

Chris 13-02-2021 15:25
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36070431)
What lawless action do you think Trump did?
I think you’re misunderstanding my point, which should be read as a response to Mick’s quoted comment.

Mick 13-02-2021 15:42
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
BREAKING: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell says in an email to colleagues that he will vote to acquit former President Donald Trump. Source Politico.

Chris 13-02-2021 15:54
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
The outcome of this trial really is all about internal Republican Party politics. We know the Dems will all vote to convict, and a small handful of GOP will do as well, but the only tangible outcome of a conviction is barring Trump from future office. So for the rest of the GOP the question really is, is that what they want, and is it more trouble than it's worth? Trump still has a very significant following within the party. Taking action like this now, may give his supporters time to splinter off and build a following.

Mr K 13-02-2021 17:50
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36070447)
The outcome of this trial really is all about internal Republican Party politics. We know the Dems will all vote to convict, and a small handful of GOP will do as well, but the only tangible outcome of a conviction is barring Trump from future office. So for the rest of the GOP the question really is, is that what they want, and is it more trouble than it's worth? Trump still has a very significant following within the party. Taking action like this now, may give his supporters time to splinter off and build a following.
Calling it a 'trial' is another farce from a farcical country. Everyone has decided how they're going to vote regardless of evidence !

However if it divides GOP then that's a bonus on top of the Presidency and the Senate results, it would be the icing on the cake.

Bigger real trials are coming for Donnie...

Damien 13-02-2021 18:06
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
The 'Establishment' Republicans will be hoping Trump's power fades over the next 2/3 years I reckon. Otherwise, he will probably run again.

Mick 13-02-2021 21:52
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
BREAKING: Former U.S President Donald J Trump Acquitted in his Second Impeachment trial.

papa smurf 13-02-2021 22:02
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070498)
BREAKING: Former U.S President Donald J Trump Acquitted in his Second Impeachment trial.


A total of 43 senators voted 'not guilty' which passed the two thirds majority required for his acquittal.

In a statement after the trial, Mr Trump said it was "a sad commentary on our times" that the Democrats had been given a "free pass to transform justice into a tool of political vengeance, and persecute, blacklist, cancel and suppress all people and viewpoints with whom or which they disagree".

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...trial-12217300

Mr K 13-02-2021 22:07
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070498)
BREAKING: Former U.S President Donald J Trump Acquitted in his Second Impeachment trial.
BREAKING: The Pope's a Catholic.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36070502)
A total of 43 senators voted 'not guilty' which passed the two thirds majority required for his acquittal.
i.e the majority, including senators in his own party, found him guilty

Paul 13-02-2021 22:13
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070498)
BREAKING: Former U.S President Donald J Trump Acquitted in his Second Impeachment trial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36070503)
BREAKING: The Pope's a Catholic.
Pretty much - its not exactly the most surprising outcome of the year so far.

The whole thing was just typical US theatre & nonsense.

The sooner Trump fades away into obscurity the better. :sleep:

Damien 13-02-2021 22:17
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Doubt he'll fade away. He is the frontrunner now for the 2024 nomination and will likely be the unofficial leader of the GOP for now.

Pierre 13-02-2021 22:23
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Acquitted

Damien 13-02-2021 22:33
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
McConnell laying into Trump on the floor of the Senate after voting to acquit him, pleasing essentially no one.

Mick 13-02-2021 22:44
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36070512)
McConnell laying into Trump on the floor of the Senate after voting to acquit him, pleasing essentially no one.
He’s not wrong in what he’s saying. Democrats chose the wrong tool to get to Trump. Impeachment of a private citizen is not constitutional.

If Trump is guilty of an actual crime, then the U.S has a criminal justice system that can convict and punish the 45th President now he is out of office.

Damien 13-02-2021 23:05
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070517)
He’s not wrong in what he’s saying. Democrats chose the wrong tool to get to Trump. Impeachment of a private citizen is not constitutional.

If Trump is guilty of an actual crime, then the U.S has a criminal justice system that can convict and punish the 45th President now he is out of office.
Sure but aside from saying there are other avenues to prosecute him he is also laying into him about his actions and his failures aside from any legal issues. Surprisingly critical and personal against someone who will remain a big player in the GOP.

Dude111 14-02-2021 00:52
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I suspect he will savour his time in the limelight again.
The poor guy was railroaded......... This should be dropped!!!

Paul 14-02-2021 02:57
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Poor guy ? I think not. :)

Hugh 14-02-2021 11:24
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36070502)
A total of 43 senators voted 'not guilty' which passed the two thirds majority required for his acquittal.

In a statement after the trial, Mr Trump said it was "a sad commentary on our times" that the Democrats had been given a "free pass to transform justice into a tool of political vengeance, and persecute, blacklist, cancel and suppress all people and viewpoints with whom or which they disagree".

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...trial-12217300
Apparently Trump later rang the Senate President Pro Tem, asking him if he could find 8 more votes for Yrump... ;)

papa smurf 14-02-2021 11:28
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36070587)
Apparently Trump later rang the Senate President Pro Tem, asking him if he could find 8 more votes for Yrump... ;)
Now what about those traitors who backed the dem's, their lives are going to be fun from now on.

Hugh 14-02-2021 11:30
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Pretty sure classifying people who didn’t vote for Trump as "traitors" is how we got into this mess...

papa smurf 14-02-2021 11:32
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36070590)
Pretty sure classifying people who didn’t vote for Trump as "traitors" is how we got into this mess...
it's only some republicans that turned traitor.
Yea let's march down to ...........................;)

Mick 14-02-2021 11:36
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36070588)
Now what about those traitors who backed the dem's, their lives are going to be fun from now on.
Well the State of Louisiana GOP has unanimously voted to censure their Republican U.S Senator Bill Cassidy for voting to convict Trump.

In a Statement, on Twitter, they said:

Quote:
We condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the vote today by Sen. Cassidy to convict former President Trump. Fortunately, clearer heads prevailed and President Trump has been acquitted of the impeachment charge filed against him.
North Carolina GOP have also distanced them self from Republican Senator Richard Burr, for voting to convict Trump. Issuing a Statement that they were “Disappointed by his contradictory vote to convict after earlier voting agreeing that the trial was unconstitutional.”

Hugh 14-02-2021 11:48
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Bill Cassidy isn’t up for re-election until 2026, and Richard Burr retires in 2022, so they’re probably not that bothered...

Mick 14-02-2021 11:54
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36070598)
Bill Cassidy isn’t up for re-election until 2026, and Richard Burr retires in 2022, so they’re probably not that bothered...
Again, you’re not informing me of something I already knew. :rolleyes:

Hugh 14-02-2021 12:09
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Others may not have your depth of knowledge

Mick 14-02-2021 12:15
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36070610)
Others may not have your depth of knowledge
Fair do’s. :) (But you were responding to something I’d specifically raised). ;)

Hom3r 14-02-2021 13:56
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
I'm predicting the yanks will vote Trump back in, and he will be spouting the illegal votes for the 3rd election in a row.

Paul 14-02-2021 14:40
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070599)
Again, you’re not informing me of something I already knew. :rolleyes:
Having read this a couple of times, I think you mixed it up.
I believe you mean he [was] informing you, rather than not informing you :angel:

Either way, I didnt know, so it was informative to me. :D

Mick 14-02-2021 15:39
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36070634)
Having read this a couple of times, I think you mixed it up.
I believe you mean he [was] informing you, rather than not informing you :angel:

Either way, I didnt know, so it was informative to me. :D
No, it’s right what I meant. He was not telling me something new. So he couldn’t inform me on something I’d already been informed of or learned much earlier on. I was going to remove that post but Hugh had already replied so was too late. :angel:

---------- Post added at 14:39 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36070630)
I'm predicting the yanks will vote Trump back in, and he will be spouting the illegal votes for the 3rd election in a row.
I think the Democrats may actually try invoking section 3 of Amendment 14 of the Constitution. It’s actually going to be tricky if they do because the wording isn’t specific and direct refers to the office of president.

Quote:
Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
I say tricky because words matter in the Constitution. Officer of the United States, doesn’t exactly correlate to the presidency. If Congress were to enact this, Trump could Sue in the courts.

Chris 14-02-2021 16:37
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36070643)
No, it’s right what I meant. He was not telling me something new. So he couldn’t inform me on something I’d already been informed of or learned much earlier on. I was going to remove that post but Hugh had already replied so was too late. :angel:

---------- Post added at 14:39 ---------- Previous post was at 14:29 ----------



I think the Democrats may actually try invoking section 3 of Amendment 14 of the Constitution. It’s actually going to be tricky if they do because the wording isn’t specific and direct refers to the office of president.



I say tricky because words matter in the Constitution. Officer of the United States, doesn’t exactly correlate to the presidency. If Congress were to enact this, Trump could Sue in the courts.
Yes, that clause specifically names senators, congressmen and electors of the POTUS and VP but doesn’t name the president. I suspect it would be fairly easy to argue at the Supreme Court that the office of president is deliberately excluded from that list. I would understand officers of the US to be cabinet positions in a president’s government rather than the president directly.

1andrew1 14-02-2021 23:46
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
This case has damaged Trump's brand. The US has seen the Capitol Hill anti-democracy violence on its screens again and the association with Trump - rightly or wrongly - has been reinforced.

pip08456 15-02-2021 00:32
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36070698)
This case has damaged Trump's brand. The US has seen the Capitol Hill anti-democracy violence on its screens again and the association with Trump - rightly or wrongly - has been reinforced.
Looks like he could be heading for bankruptcy again.

Quote:
Meanwhile, this week has also seen reports that more of Trump’s business partners are trying to distance themselves from the former President. On Tuesday, the Wall Street Journal reported that real estate investment firm Vornado Realty Trust is looking to exit its partnerships with the Trump Organization, including those at two prime office buildings located in Midtown Manhattan and San Francisco’s Financial District.

Vornado is run by noted real estate investor Steven Roth, a longtime friend of Trump’s who advised the former President during his time in the White House. But the firm is reportedly concerned that Trump’s association with the properties have hindered attempts to find new buyers and lenders for the assets.

Vornado’s retreat could further exacerbate Trump’s business woes. His company’s leisure- and hospitality-focused properties have been hit hard by the COVID-19 pandemic, and other business partners have already moved to cut ties with Trump following last month’s storming of the Capitol. Additionally, in the next few years the Trump Organization must repay more than $400 million in loans used to finance properties including Trump Tower in Manhattan, the Trump National Doral Miami golf resort in Florida, and the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.
The he has possible legal woes.

Quote:
On the legal front, Fulton County, Ga., prosecutors said on Wednesday that they had opened a criminal investigation into “attempts to influence” Georgia’s administration of the 2020 general election. While prosecutors did not explicitly name Trump in announcing the investigation, the probe is believed to involve his documented attempts to pressure Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find” the votes needed to win the state, which President Joe Biden carried by nearly 12,000 ballots.

Trump also publicly pressured Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp and reportedly contacted other state officials to investigate the former President’s baseless allegations of voter fraud and overturn the state’s election results in his favor. In letters to Raffensperger, Kemp, and other Georgia officials, Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis asked that they preserve all documents and records related to the election and any attempts to influence it.

The newly launched Georgia investigation adds to Trump’s existing legal woes in New York, where both the state’s attorney general and Manhattan’s district attorney are pursuing fraud investigations related to Trump and his businesses. While the former has launched a civil probe into Trump’s business dealings, the latter’s case could lead to criminal charges.
https://fortune.com/2021/02/10/trump...oans-scandals/

Dude111 15-02-2021 01:47
I heard he was aquitted,does that mean they lost?? (They tried once before also)

Chris 15-02-2021 12:02
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
That depends what you believe the Dems’ goal was. For sure they will have hoped to convict him and they didn’t, so they lost on that count, however they will have known all along that getting 17 GOP senators to back them was a tall order and will no doubt have been satisfied to achieve any number of other objectives.

For a start, history will record that Donald J Trump is the only president of the United States ever to have been impeached twice. As no president has ever been convicted by the senate, impeachment by Congress is the only “official” record of a sitting president’s misdemeanours. That’s a pretty big blot on his record that won’t ever fade, unless in the long run a series of presidents do actually get convicted of anything, at which point mere impeachment will cease to seem important. So the Dems haven’t really lost on that.

Secondly their presentation in the senate, complete with all the new CCTV footage, was really shocking and whether or not it is directly associated with Trump, it is associated in the minds of many American voters with an attempt by insurrection to prevent a president-elect from taking office. As it was a Democrat president-elect, the insurrection taints the reputation of republicans (even though the vast majority of American Republican voters would not have supported this in any way). So again, they have a win there.

I think the final analysis won’t be possible until the primaries begin for 2024. At that point we will be able to see what state the Trump wing of the GOP is in, and whether there is any appetite in the party for Trump or his anointed successor to have a run at the presidency.

pip08456 15-02-2021 12:16
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36070727)
That depends what you believe the Dems’ goal was. For sure they will have hoped to convict him and they didn’t, so they lost on that count, however they will have known all along that getting 17 GOP senators to back them was a tall order and will no doubt have been satisfied to achieve any number of other objectives.

For a start, history will record that Donald J Trump is the only president of the United States ever to have been impeached twice. As no president has ever been convicted by the senate, impeachment by Congress is the only “official” record of a sitting president’s misdemeanours. That’s a pretty big blot on his record that won’t ever fade, unless in the long run a series of presidents do actually get convicted of anything, at which point mere impeachment will cease to seem important. So the Dems haven’t really lost on that.

Secondly their presentation in the senate, complete with all the new CCTV footage, was really shocking and whether or not it is directly associated with Trump, it is associated in the minds of many American voters with an attempt by insurrection to prevent a president-elect from taking office. As it was a Democrat president-elect, the insurrection taints the reputation of republicans (even though the vast majority of American Republican voters would not have supported this in any way). So again, they have a win there.

I think the final analysis won’t be possible until the primaries begin for 2024. At that point we will be able to see what state the Trump wing of the GOP is in, and whether there is any appetite in the party for Trump or his anointed successor to have a run at the presidency.
There's 30 odd senate seats up for grabs in 2022, that might be an early indicator.

Damien 15-02-2021 12:54
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
2024 and the primaries are a long time away in politics. Sarah Palin seemed to be a major player in 2009 and the 2010 mid-terms were a success for the brand of the Republican Party she was a figurehead for. However, her power diminished before 2012.

Trump is obviously a much bigger figure having been President but will his hold on the base last until 2023-2024? Without the platform of being President, he won't be as omnipresent and he faces a number of personal legal and financial problems at the moment.

You would make him favourite for the Republican nomination still but even then Republicans might prioritise getting Biden (or whoever runs as the Democratic nominee assuming Biden does one term) out of the White House and as an electoral prospect for the General Election he wouldn't look great. He has lost one election and the aftermath of that wouldn't have done him any favours in the eyes of Independents - he just isn't popular. So will the Republican base, out of personal loyalty to Trump, give an unpopular election loser another shot? Surely after the dust is settled there will be enough of them who want to move on.

1andrew1 15-02-2021 13:12
Re: Trump impeachment: Senate trial to start
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36070738)
2024 and the primaries are a long time away in politics. Sarah Palin seemed to be a major player in 2009 and the 2010 mid-terms were a success for the brand of the Republican Party she was a figurehead for. However, her power diminished before 2012.

Trump is obviously a much bigger figure having been President but will his hold on the base last until 2023-2024? Without the platform of being President, he won't be as omnipresent and he faces a number of personal legal and financial problems at the moment.

You would make him favourite for the Republican nomination still but even then Republicans might prioritise getting Biden (or whoever runs as the Democratic nominee assuming Biden does one term) out of the White House and as an electoral prospect for the General Election he wouldn't look great. He has lost one election and the aftermath of that wouldn't have done him any favours in the eyes of Independents - he just isn't popular. So will the Republican base, out of personal loyalty to Trump, give an unpopular election loser another shot? Surely after the dust is settled there will be enough of them who want to move on.
I think you're right - it's attracting the non-aligned votes that is key and Trump won't be able to do this.


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