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Chris 29-10-2020 10:07
Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
... and this amounted to law-breaking behaviour.

Quote:
The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) said it "identified serious failings" in the party's leadership in addressing anti-Semitism.
It also said the party had "inadequate processes" for handling complaints.
The watchdog gave the party an unlawful act notice, meaning it has to publish an action plan within six weeks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54730425

Oh dear.

denphone 29-10-2020 10:31
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Utterly appalling.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 10:52
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
I suppose the entire shadow cabinet were only following orders.

Hugh 29-10-2020 11:06
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055402)
I suppose the entire shadow cabinet were only following orders.
You’re confusing the Shadow Cabinet with the Labour Party National Executive Committee - the NEC are the governing body, not the Parliamentary Party.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 11:15
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh (Post 36055404)
you’re confusing the shadow cabinet with the labour party national executive committee - the nec are the governing body, not the parliamentary party.
mansplaining again

Hugh 29-10-2020 11:23
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Sorry, mama smurf... ;)

(the irony of you, a man, trying to redefine "mansplaining" takes meta to a new level :D )

heero_yuy 29-10-2020 11:26
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Quote from The Sun: Jeremy Corbyn STILL blames opponents for exaggerating anti-Semitism claims even after a damning report by the Equality and Human Rights Commission found Labour broke the law.

Mr Corbyn refused to apologise today after the equalities watchdog found the party under the hard left-former leader allowed horrible harassment and abuse of Jewish members to thrive.

In a shameless statement, Mr Corbyn said today: "The scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media."

And he added he "did not accept all of the reports findings."

Mr Corbyn claimed: "As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism.
(In)actions speak louder than words. :rolleyes:

Good old stick your head in the sand and blame your opponents. It's that attitude that allowed the hard Left to nurture anti-semitism.

nomadking 29-10-2020 11:35
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Not quite sure why all the finger pointing at Corbyn. It wasn't new party members committing the offending acts etc.

Mick 29-10-2020 12:08
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
It’s quite certain why all the finger pointing is at Corbyn, he was their leader. And the report quite rightfully exposes there was a lack of leadership.

I didn’t think the Labour brand could get any more tarnished, Blair government was a disgrace, with the illegal Iraq war and then ‘oh Jeremy Corbyn’ comes along and says hold my cup of tea.

People know my take on polling, but they do reflect a view. At this moment, the Tory government have not got a clue what they are up against with Covid. Current polling trends have Labour slightly above Conservatives, or just under. Labour should be 20 points ahead by now, even I say that. Labour die hards blame Starmer. But is it just people cannot bring themselves to vote for such a tarnished party, regardless of their policies?

nomadking 29-10-2020 12:13
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36055413)
It’s quite certain why all the finger pointing is at Corbyn, he was their leader. And the report quite rightfully exposes there was a lack of leadership.

I didn’t think the Labour brand could get any more tarnished, Blair government was a disgrace, with the illegal Iraq war and then ‘oh Jeremy Corbyn’ comes along and says hold my cup of tea.

People know my take on polling, but they do reflect a view. At this moment, the Tory government have not got a clue what they are up against with Covid. Current polling trends have Labour slightly above Conservatives, or just under. Labour should be 20 points ahead by now, even I say that. Labour die hards blame Starmer. But is it just people cannot bring themselves to vote for such a tarnished party, regardless of their policies?
Did it only start when he became leader? Did the offenders only join the party after he became leader? The mentality behind it all, has been there a very long time.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 12:42
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36055407)
Sorry, mama smurf... ;)

(the irony of you, a man, trying to redefine "mansplaining" takes meta to a new level :D )
In its original use, mansplaining differed from other forms of condescension in that it was said to be rooted in the assumption that a man is likely to be more knowledgeable than a woman.[7] However, it has come to be used more broadly, often applied when a man takes a condescending tone in an explanation to anyone, regardless of the age or gender of the intended recipients: a "man 'splaining" can be delivered to any audience.[2] In 2010, it was named by the New York Times as one of its "Words of the Year".[8] American Dialect Society nominated Mansplaining as the “most creative” new word in 2012.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining

There's no charge for educating you.

1andrew1 29-10-2020 12:55
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36055413)
It’s quite certain why all the finger pointing is at Corbyn, he was their leader. And the report quite rightfully exposes there was a lack of leadership.
Nailed it! :clap::clap::clap:

Mick 29-10-2020 13:11
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
BREAKING: Jeremy Corbyn SUSPENDED from Labour Party.

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Whip also removed.

Damien 29-10-2020 13:13
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Amazing. Starmer is fully confronting the culture that developed within the party and Corbyn's wing of the party. This is probably a judgement day for him. Corbyn, his allies and supporters within the membership will now test this to see whose party it is.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 13:14
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36055423)
BREAKING: Jeremy Corbyn SUSPENDED from Labour Party.

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Whip also removed.
Arse covering by starmer.

1andrew1 29-10-2020 13:16
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Wow! Did not expect that!

Hugh 29-10-2020 13:22
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055418)
In its original use, mansplaining differed from other forms of condescension in that it was said to be rooted in the assumption that a man is likely to be more knowledgeable than a woman.[7] However, it has come to be used more broadly, often applied when a man takes a condescending tone in an explanation to anyone, regardless of the age or gender of the intended recipients: a "man 'splaining" can be delivered to any audience.[2] In 2010, it was named by the New York Times as one of its "Words of the Year".[8] American Dialect Society nominated Mansplaining as the “most creative” new word in 2012.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining

There's no charge for educating you.
As already explained to you previously, this definition doesn't actually exist - the link referred to in the wiki article doesn't say what the article says it says.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...g#post36054756

Hope this helps.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 13:22
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36055427)
Wow! Did not expect that!
Wonder how many supporters jezza still has and what will their reaction be :shocked:

jfman 29-10-2020 13:24
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36055410)
Not quite sure why all the finger pointing at Corbyn. It wasn't new party members committing the offending acts etc.
I do find it odd that an "institutionally racist" organisation seemed to have developed so quickly based on a relatively small number of complaints.

Mick 29-10-2020 13:35
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Harriet Harman: “This is right thing to do.” In regards to Corbyn being suspended.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 13:38
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36055429)
As already explained to you previously, this definition doesn't actually exist - the link referred to in the wiki article doesn't say what the article says it says.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...g#post36054756

Hope this helps.
Unlike you it has evolved.
You can deny the truth exists as much as you like,it's not helping you.

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36055432)
Harriet Harman: “This is right thing to do.” In regards to Corbyn being suspended.
I do hope the party is going to split into two separate entities.

Pierre 29-10-2020 14:25
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36055423)
BREAKING: Jeremy Corbyn SUSPENDED from Labour Party.

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Whip also removed.
And the rise and fall and final descent into the political Abyss of one Jeremy Corbyn is complete.

I wonder if Long-Bailey will still mark him 10/10.

jfman 29-10-2020 14:25
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Would be good fun to see Labour tear itself apart now. Something to accelerate the death throes of the Union is always something to be welcomed.

Pierre 29-10-2020 14:27
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055438)
Would be good fun to see Labour tear itself apart now. Something to accelerate the death throes of the Union is always something to be welcomed.
A certain Mr Burnham is ready and waiting to rebuild it after implosion. Kier Starmer is only keeping his seat warm.

jfman 29-10-2020 14:36
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
We only need a few years.

Chris 29-10-2020 14:37
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36055425)
Amazing. Starmer is fully confronting the culture that developed within the party and Corbyn's wing of the party. This is probably a judgement day for him. Corbyn, his allies and supporters within the membership will now test this to see whose party it is.
Supposedly the suspension is for his reaction to the judgment (parts of which he says he does not accept). I think Corbyn just made it easier for Starmer to make an example of him. He was always going to have to carry the can for this.

I see this morning he was still rehearsing the same old generalising claptrap about opposing “all forms of racism” (it’s always “all forms of” something with Corbyn - his devotion to equality is so perverse he simply can’t make any sort of judgment about degrees of wrong, priorities for action or strength of corrective measures). His blind spot on this is astounding. Mind you, and this bears endless repetition - he has friends in Hamas who are ideologically committed to the extinction of a nation state. Imbibing that sort of lunacy has to cloud your judgment sooner or later (or, perhaps, proves you never had much judgment in the first place).

Julian 29-10-2020 15:01
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Are we to believe that Corbyn's shadow cabinet is blameless in all this?

They combined to support him and his actions........

papa smurf 29-10-2020 15:03
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36055443)
Are we to believe that Corbyn's shadow cabinet is blameless in all this?

They combined to support him and his actions........
They were only following orders.

heero_yuy 29-10-2020 15:05
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055444)
They were only following orders.
Ah! The prison guard defence.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 15:08
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36055445)
Ah! The prison guard defence.

Indeed.

I can't believe the brass neck on starmer, he said bugger all when he was in the shadow cabinet.

Chris 29-10-2020 15:21
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055446)
Indeed.

I can't believe the brass neck on starmer, he said bugger all when he was in the shadow cabinet.
Keeping his head down until he’d secured the top job I expect. You didn’t have to be a Corbynite to get on the Labour leadership ballot but it certainly helped if you hadn’t upset them too much. I think people quickly forget just how far Momentum’s tentacles spread through the Party apparatus during Corbyn’s tenure. Not that I’m defending Starmer. He should have spoken up yet apparently he didn’t.

I think we are now in for several months of highly entertaining factional warfare within Labour.

BenMcr 29-10-2020 15:23
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055446)
Indeed.

I can't believe the brass neck on starmer, he said bugger all when he was in the shadow cabinet.
January 2018
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8168856.html
Quote:
Sir Keir Starmer has told Jeremy Corbyn to be “louder” in condemning antisemitism in the Labour Party.

The Shadow Brexit Secretary vowed to ask his party leader to be more vocal on the issue after a series of high-profile incidents involving Labour members being accused of expressing anti-Jewish views.
April 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...mitism-remarks
Quote:
Sir Keir Starmer has hit back at the trade union chief Len McCluskey for accusing Labour MPs complaining about antisemitism of “smearing” Jeremy Corbyn.

The shadow Brexit secretary suggested that those who denied the party had an issue with antisemitism were “part of the problem”.
February 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...emitic-members
Quote:
The shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer, has called for tough rules to swiftly kick out antisemitic Labour members, following rows at a shadow cabinet meeting over the party’s backlog of complaints.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 15:26
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36055448)
He clearly didn't do enough,the odd whimper while plotting his rise to power won't get many brownie points.

BenMcr 29-10-2020 15:33
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055446)
I can't believe the brass neck on starmer, he said bugger all when he was in the shadow cabinet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055449)
He clearly didn't do enough,the odd whimper while plotting his rise to power won't get many brownie points.
Which is it?

The argument you're making is one that no-one ever manages, because the line to achieve it is always redrawn just ahead of whatever position the person currently has or the actions they've done.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 15:37
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36055450)
Which is it?

The argument you're making is one that no-one ever manages, because the line to achieve it is always redrawn just ahead of whatever position the person currently has or the actions they've done.
I read a report earlier today that said starmer did nothing [can't remember where it was]

now you say he did complain and show news articles,so now i ask did he complain enough or just enough to cover his own arse?

BenMcr 29-10-2020 15:45
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Well considering he was also on the Parliamentary committee that produced this report

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...ff/136/136.pdf

It's something he's been aware of and critical of in Labour's stance for most of his time in parliament. And the need to ensure that everyone in the UK takes steps to ensure that antisemitism is rooted out.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 15:48
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36055453)
Well considering he was also on the Parliamentary committee that produced this report

https://publications.parliament.uk/p...ff/136/136.pdf

It's something he's been aware of and critical of in Labour's stance for most of his time in parliament. And the need to ensure that everyone in the UK takes steps to ensure that antisemitism is rooted out.
So he's been aware of it for a long time then.

BenMcr 29-10-2020 15:50
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Yes, as my links have shown as he wouldn't have spoken out about it if he wasn't aware of it.

However he wasn't the leader, part of the leaders office or on the NEC. All of which are responsible for the mechanisms within the Labour party and have had problems with members and their attitude towards antisemitism.

Ultimately it is those parts of the party that are responsible for the discrimination and failure to deal with it.

papa smurf 29-10-2020 15:53
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36055455)
Yes, as my links have shown as he wouldn't have spoken out about it if he wasn't aware of it.

However he wasn't the leader, part of the leaders office or on the NEC. All of which are responsible for the mechanisms within the Labour party and have had problems with members and their attitude towards antisemitism.
Just a foot soldier then.

BenMcr 29-10-2020 15:59
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055456)
Just a foot soldier then.
Interfering in the confidential party processes is precisely the issue that the report says the leader's office did inappropriately.

As a Brexit Secretary has no role within party discipline that I could see, then I wouldn't expect him to be involved any part of the complaints.

Nor could I see why he would be aware of them at the time (excluding any high profile ones that were in the public domain). The Leader's office shouldn't have been aware of some of them, and my understanding on one of the issues is that they were.

He has spoken out over the last 4 years about issues that affect his party that he was aware of including with the actions of his leader at the time.

Julian 29-10-2020 16:27
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
The Campaign Against Antisemitism, which was a complainant in the EHRC investigation, has submitted complaints today about Labour MPs such as Corbyn, Diane Abbott, Rebecca Long-Bailey.

The list of MPs with CAA complaints against them also includes current frontbencher Steve Reed, who suggested in July that Tory donor Richard Desmond was a “puppet master”, and deputy leader Angela Rayner.
From HERE

Full list of MPs etc. accused :-

Diane Abbott MP
Tahir Ali MP
Mike Amesbury MP
Alana Bates
Apsana Begum MP
Richard Burgon MP
Ronnie Campbell
Maria Carroll
Pamela Fitzpatrick
Lisa Forbes
Barry Gardiner MP
Ruth George
Rebecca Gordon-Nesbitt
Dan Greef
Adrian Heald
Kate Hollern MP
Rebecca Jenkins
Afzal Khan MP
Kate Linnegar
Rebecca Long Bailey MP
Mark McDonald
Ali Milani
Ed Murphy
Jann Oliver
Baroness Osamor
Jenny Rathbone WAM
Angela Rayner MP
Steve Reed MP
Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP
Barry Sheerman MP
Jim Sheridan
Zarah Sultana MP

papa smurf 29-10-2020 17:39
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Labour wring hands over antisemitism like rumbled Nazis at end of WW2

TODAY is a truly dark day for British politics. Forget Brexit, forget the EU, and forget COVID-19 for a moment. A leading British political party - the Labour Party - stands guilty of giving succour to racists and Jew-haters everywhere.


https://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...starmer-rayner

Maggy 29-10-2020 18:33
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Well guess I'm back to the Green party..

Chris 29-10-2020 18:52
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Apparently the party leadership advised Corbyn not to make the statement he did. They then advised him to retract it, but he didn’t. The man really doesn’t get it. It’s no wonder things got so out of control under his leadership.

Damien 29-10-2020 19:27
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36055473)
Apparently the party leadership advised Corbyn not to make the statement he did. They then advised him to retract it, but he didn’t. The man really doesn’t get it. It’s no wonder things got so out of control under his leadership.
He was effectively daring Starmer to do this.

Sephiroth 29-10-2020 19:31
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36055473)
Apparently the party leadership advised Corbyn not to make the statement he did. They then advised him to retract it, but he didn’t. The man really doesn’t get it. It’s no wonder things got so out of control under his leadership.
Corbyn does get it.

He likes to stay true to his beliefs. One of those beliefs is that he doesn't care for Jews or Israel or both. He wants to be self-consistent.

Horrible man.

heero_yuy 30-10-2020 09:21
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
If the law has been broken by members of the Labour party, when do the prosecutions start?

BenMcr 30-10-2020 09:37
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36055514)
If the law has been broken by members of the Labour party, when do the prosecutions start?
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/...rimination-and
Quote:
The Labour Party has until 10 December to draft an action plan to implement the recommendations, which is legally enforceable by the court if not fulfilled.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/...d-wider-powers
Quote:
The Commission can enter into a formal agreement with a person or organisation that it believes has committed an unlawful act. By entering into an agreement, the person or organisation agrees not to commit an unlawful act. As such, it is often an effective alternative to other formal enforcement action.

Agreements can be entered into without a formal investigation and will involve putting an action plan in place. It’s important to note that by agreeing to an action plan, however, the individual or organisation is not admitting that there has been an unlawful act.

Once the agreement and action plan are in place, we will keep in regular contact with the person or organisation, who must report regularly on progress. If they don’t comply with the agreement, or we think that compliance is unlikely, we can take further action through the courts.

Additionally, the Commission may suspend an investigation if the organisation being investigated agrees to enter into a section 23 agreement with an action plan. This means we will not recommence the investigation if the organisation complies with the terms of the agreement and action plan.

noel43 30-10-2020 09:47
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36055442)
Supposedly the suspension is for his reaction to the judgment (parts of which he says he does not accept). I think Corbyn just made it easier for Starmer to make an example of him. He was always going to have to carry the can for this.

I see this morning he was still rehearsing the same old generalising claptrap about opposing “all forms of racism” (it’s always “all forms of” something with Corbyn - his devotion to equality is so perverse he simply can’t make any sort of judgment about degrees of wrong, priorities for action or strength of corrective measures). His blind spot on this is astounding. Mind you, and this bears endless repetition - he has friends in Hamas who are ideologically committed to the extinction of a nation state. Imbibing that sort of lunacy has to cloud your judgment sooner or later (or, perhaps, proves you never had much judgment in the first place).
Isreal isn't as innocent as people like to think. They are doing in Palestine what the Germans did in Poland. Taking occupied land and building villages. This is against international law, yet everybody see.s happy with that.

jfman 30-10-2020 09:55
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36055521)
Isreal isn't as innocent as people like to think. They are doing in Palestine what the Germans did in Poland. Taking occupied land and building villages. This is against international law, yet everybody see.s happy with that.
Steady. That’s in the new definition of antisemitism.

papa smurf 30-10-2020 09:59
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055522)
Steady. That’s in the new definition of antisemitism.
it's in the old definition of his/her opinion.

Damien 30-10-2020 10:06
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36055521)
Isreal isn't as innocent as people like to think. They are doing in Palestine what the Germans did in Poland. Taking occupied land and building villages. This is against international law, yet everybody see.s happy with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055522)
Steady. That’s in the new definition of antisemitism.
You can criticise Israeli policy towards Palestine without drawing upon the Holocaust in doing so. I think it's pretty obvious why people choose to make that comparison and I don't think you can feign ignorance as to why it's not a good idea.

BenMcr 30-10-2020 10:07
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36055524)
Aren't these EHRC laws sort of sorted out within the remit of the organisation as well? i.E Labour complies with the recommendations and it's sorted. I don't think they're accused of anything that has a criminal element attached.
I'd think so as the report says 'unlawful' not 'illegal'.

1andrew1 30-10-2020 10:20
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Great thread in Twitter about the failings of leaders which neatly sums up the situations Thatcher, Blair and Corbyn all found themselves in.

Quote:
There is a class of conviction politician who, over time, become convinced they're infallible, simply by dint of a few good / popular acts. And it destroys them...
https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/s...27124513599492

Sephiroth 30-10-2020 10:42
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36055521)
Isreal isn't as innocent as people like to think. They are doing in Palestine what the Germans did in Poland. Taking occupied land and building villages. This is against international law, yet everybody see.s happy with that.
Tut, tut. You may need to re-evaluate yourself.

Israel may well be doing silly things in Palestine (the two you listed). But you didn't exclude the mass murdering that Germans did in Poland leaving you wide open to criticism.

Btw, what has Israel got to do with antisemitism in the Labour Party?

Do you think that the past Labour Party hierarchy tolerated antisemitism?

Hugh 30-10-2020 10:52
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
From Len McCluskey

Quote:
General secretary of the Unite union, Len McCluskey, called it "an act of grave injustice which, if not reversed, will create chaos within the party and in doing so compromise Labour's chances of a general election victory".
Because it went so well in the last election...

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36055521)
Isreal isn't as innocent as people like to think. They are doing in Palestine what the Germans did in Poland. Taking occupied land and building villages. This is against international law, yet everybody see.s happy with that.
Yeh, but no...

The Germans did a few more egregious things in Poland (the omission of which does not help your position), which the Israelis are not doing in Palestine...

pip08456 30-10-2020 12:01
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
1 Attachment(s)
As expected Momentum pitches in.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1604059242

1andrew1 30-10-2020 12:17
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36055525)
You can criticise Israeli policy towards Palestine without drawing upon the Holocaust in doing so. I think it's pretty obvious why people choose to make that comparison and I don't think you can feign ignorance as to why it's not a good idea.
:clap::clap::clap:

nomadking 30-10-2020 12:42
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
For each person in the Labour party that has made a anti-Semitic comment, there are thousands of other Labour party members, who support that the comments.
If they got rid of the Labour local councillors, there would be areas of the country with no Labour council.

BenMcr 30-10-2020 12:56
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36055570)
For each person in the Labour party that has made a anti-Semitic comment, there are thousands of other Labour party members, who support that the comments.
If they got rid of the Labour local councillors, there would be areas of the country with no Labour council.
I'm pretty sure there is another party that a similar comment could be made in regards to a religion.

Anyway, the question isn't whether those view exist and by how many within a party, it's about how the party deals with them. That's what the EHCR investigation was about.

Julian 30-10-2020 13:10
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Didn't take long fpr whataboutery to strike.......

nomadking 30-10-2020 13:17
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
The report was about how and whether any complaints were dealt with, not the individual complaints themselves.
Link
Quote:
The watchdog said its analysis "points to a culture within the party which, at best, did not do enough to prevent anti-Semitism and, at worst, could be seen to accept it".
The interim chair of the EHRC, Caroline Waters, released a statement alongside the report, saying the investigation had "highlighted multiple areas" where the party's "approach and leadership to tackling anti-Semitism was insufficient".
"This is inexcusable," she added, "and appeared to be a result of a lack of willingness to tackle anti-Semitism rather than an inability to do so."

papa smurf 01-11-2020 08:50
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
OH DEAR, KEIR Labour risks losing £6million a year in funding from unions over Jeremy Corbyn’s suspension


LABOUR risks losing £6million a year in funding as civil war erupts in the party over Jeremy Corbyn’s suspension.

Union donors hint they will stop paying if the former leader is thrown out


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/130767...ns-suspension/

Sirius 01-11-2020 09:52
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055831)
OH DEAR, KEIR Labour risks losing £6million a year in funding from unions over Jeremy Corbyn’s suspension


LABOUR risks losing £6million a year in funding as civil war erupts in the party over Jeremy Corbyn’s suspension.

Union donors hint they will stop paying if the former leader is thrown out


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/130767...ns-suspension/
That has made my day :)

I have never liked Corbyn due to his links with the IRA and if i had my way he would be double tapped. As for Labour i just don't trust them with the country's finances

papa smurf 01-11-2020 09:59
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36055835)
That has made my day :)

I have never liked Corbyn due to his links with the IRA and if i had my way he would be double tapped. As for Labour i just don't trust them with the country's finances
I wouldn't trust them with my Granddaughters pocket money.

Sephiroth 01-11-2020 10:05
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36055835)
That has made my day :)

I have never liked Corbyn due to his links with the IRA and if i had my way he would be double tapped. As for Labour i just don't trust them with the country's finances
Not just the IRA. See Arab terrorism for details.

1andrew1 01-11-2020 10:36
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Sir Keir has had a bit of a get-out-of-jail-free card on this one. The issue of his being a member of the shadow cabinet under Jeremy Corbyn's rule was over-shadowed by Jeremy Corbyn's statement.

Just goes to show the luck involved in politics, as in many other areas of life.

And now the country has moved on and is debating Lockdown II, an area where Sir Keir has the upper hand.

Julian 01-11-2020 10:54
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36055839)
Sir Keir has had a bit of a get-out-of-jail-free card on this one. The issue of his being a member of the shadow cabinet under Jeremy Corbyn's rule was over-shadowed by Jeremy Corbyn's statement.

Just goes to show the luck involved in politics, as in many other areas of life.

And now the country has moved on and is debating Lockdown II, an area where Sir Keir has the upper hand.
Absolute comedy gold Andrew.

Thanks for that. BTW there is a separate joke thread elsewhere on the forum.;)

jfman 01-11-2020 11:31
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
I think outside the Conservative Club on here andrew’s analysis is quite good on how Starmer has dodged a bullet.

Sephiroth 01-11-2020 11:46
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055849)
I think outside the Conservative Club on here andrew’s analysis is quite good on how Starmer has dodged a bullet.
The bullet will be back to haunt him. And rightly so - he campaigned for that anti-semite's election victory last year and that will be flung back at him.

Chris 01-11-2020 12:47
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055849)
(snip) Starmer has dodged a bullet.
More by luck than judgment. Corbyn handed him an absolute gift with his batschitt crazy press release on Thursday morning. As for the rest of it, well thanks to Covid every day for the last 8 months has been a good day to bury bad news. :(

1andrew1 01-11-2020 12:58
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36055858)
More by luck than judgment. Corbyn handed him an absolute gift with his batschitt crazy press release on Thursday morning. (
I'm pleased you agree it's luck - I described it it exactly as this in post 67 but Julian called my post "Comedy gold".

Damien 01-11-2020 16:04
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36055850)
The bullet will be back to haunt him. And rightly so - he campaigned for that anti-semite's election victory last year and that will be flung back at him.
Don't think it'll stick precisely because of the action of suspending him now.

1andrew1 01-11-2020 16:33
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36055868)
Don't think it'll stick precisely because of the action of suspending him now.
Exactly. BoJo's useful idiot (Corbyn) has now delivered for Starmer as well.

papa smurf 02-11-2020 14:07
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Jeremy Clarkson blasts Keir Starmer after Jeremy Corbyn suspension ‘Part of the problem’

Speaking in his column for The Sun, the TV star pointed out that the new leader was also part of the party during the period which was investigated.

He wrote: “Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Labour Party for refusing to acknowledge that he’s a disgusting anti-Semite.

“And now his hideous friends like Diane Abbott are lining up to defend him.”

Turning his attention to the new Labour leader, he went on to suggest Keir was also “part of the problem”.

The Grand Tour host continued: “Naturally, Sir Keir Starmer is acting tough by mowing down cyclists and putting even more gel on his Lego hair, but the fact is that he was part of the party when it was acting like the Nazis.

“Which means he was part of the problem as well.”

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-...sm-latest-news

Mad Max 02-11-2020 16:03
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055924)
Jeremy Clarkson blasts Keir Starmer after Jeremy Corbyn suspension ‘Part of the problem’

Speaking in his column for The Sun, the TV star pointed out that the new leader was also part of the party during the period which was investigated.

He wrote: “Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Labour Party for refusing to acknowledge that he’s a disgusting anti-Semite.

“And now his hideous friends like Diane Abbott are lining up to defend him.”

Turning his attention to the new Labour leader, he went on to suggest Keir was also “part of the problem”.

The Grand Tour host continued: “Naturally, Sir Keir Starmer is acting tough by mowing down cyclists and putting even more gel on his Lego hair, but the fact is that he was part of the party when it was acting like the Nazis.

“Which means he was part of the problem as well.”

https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-...sm-latest-news
:D

jfman 02-11-2020 16:09
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Jeremy Corbyn condemns all racism yet is a "disgusting anti-Semite".

papa smurf 02-11-2020 16:27
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055932)
Jeremy Corbyn condemns all racism yet is a "disgusting anti-Semite".
Looks like you've found him out :shocked:

Hugh 02-11-2020 16:34
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055932)
Jeremy Corbyn condemns all racism yet is a "disgusting anti-Semite".
tbf, there’s a few who say "all lives matter" but are disgusting racists...

Chris 02-11-2020 16:41
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36055932)
Jeremy Corbyn condemns all racism yet is a "disgusting anti-Semite".
Generalisation is a time-honoured means of avoiding an issue. Corbyn is particularly famous for body-swerving requests for him to engage in specifics by condemning 'all forms of' something. As Hugh has pointed out ... what's your first instinct, when you ask someone if they agree that 'black lives matter', and they respond 'all lives matter'? Do you tend to think them more likely, or less likely, to be racist - or, at the very least, to have completely failed to understand the problem?

papa smurf 02-11-2020 17:03
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36055937)
Generalisation is a time-honoured means of avoiding an issue. Corbyn is particularly famous for body-swerving requests for him to engage in specifics by condemning 'all forms of' something. As Hugh has pointed out ... what's your first instinct, when you ask someone if they agree that 'black lives matter', and they respond 'all lives matter'? Do you tend to think them more likely, or less likely, to be racist - or, at the very least, to have completely failed to understand the problem?
What if someone asks do all lives matter,is the correct reply no only the black ones matter?

Chris 02-11-2020 17:23
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055938)
What if someone asks do all lives matter,is the correct reply no only the black ones matter?
Someone who replied that way would have thoroughly misunderstood what “Black Lives Matter” is supposed to mean.

Sephiroth 02-11-2020 17:38
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36055938)
What if someone asks do all lives matter, is the correct reply no only the black ones matter?
The woke might well say "Yes".

OLD BOY 02-11-2020 17:55
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36055521)
Isreal isn't as innocent as people like to think. They are doing in Palestine what the Germans did in Poland. Taking occupied land and building villages. This is against international law, yet everybody see.s happy with that.
So because the Israeli government does something you don’t like, you condemn all Jews?

If the British government does something that people in other parts of the world condemn, would that be the fault of the whole British population? Should we all be condemned?

It’s a very silly and childish way of looking at the world.

Chris 02-11-2020 18:05
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36055521)
Isreal isn't as innocent as people like to think. They are doing in Palestine what the Germans did in Poland. Taking occupied land and building villages. This is against international law, yet everybody see.s happy with that.
You very effectively demonstrate the problem Labour has been left with by Jeremy Corbyn and the racist anti-Semites whose behaviour he has enabled.

The actions of Israel in the Palestinian Territories are a specific political problem and, as far as the U.K’s posture is concerned, a matter of foreign policy. Yet when you invoke events in those territories to justify discrimination against, or discriminatory speech against, people of the Jewish faith, then you are at worst an anti-Semitic racist, or at least enabling of those who are. This is what Jeremy Corbyn and his allies have continually failed to acknowledge or accept, and Corbyn’s continuing denial of this is what got him suspended from the party last week.

jfman 02-11-2020 18:32
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36055935)
tbf, there’s a few who say "all lives matter" but are disgusting racists...
I agree, but they almost never say “black lives matter”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbyn statement
My statement following the publication of the EHRC report:

“Antisemitism is absolutely abhorrent, wrong and responsible for some of humanity’s greatest crimes. As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism. I have campaigned in support of Jewish people and communities my entire life and I will continue to do so.

“The EHRC’s report shows that when I became Labour leader in 2015, the Party’s processes for handling complaints were not fit for purpose. Reform was then stalled by an obstructive party bureaucracy. But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements, making it much easier and swifter to remove antisemites. My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process.

“Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left.

“Jewish members of our party and the wider community were right to expect us to deal with it, and I regret that it took longer to deliver that change than it should.

“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated.

“My sincere hope is that relations with Jewish communities can be rebuilt and those fears overcome. While I do not accept all of its findings, I trust its recommendations will be swiftly implemented to help move on from this period.”
I couldn’t imagine the “all lives matter” crew saying the bits in bold as they deny police brutality towards African Americans.

He may well be hopeless but a “disgusting anti-Semite” would, for me at least, be dramatically overstated for political reasons by his opponents.

Mad Max 02-11-2020 18:46
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
This is interesting.



https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

1andrew1 02-11-2020 22:17
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36055956)
What story do you think it tells in particular?

Sephiroth 02-11-2020 22:22
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Obviously that Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination.

1andrew1 02-11-2020 23:09
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36055993)
Obviously that Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination.
That's not in the link I'm seeing which is about the US. :confused:

Sephiroth 03-11-2020 08:06
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36056001)
That's not in the link I'm seeing which is about the US. :confused:
.... and the thread is about Labour anti-Semitism.

papa smurf 17-11-2020 18:49
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
He's back

Jeremy Corbyn reinstated by Labour Party


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54976558


https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-co...eport-12134951


On Tuesday, a meeting of five panel members from Labour's National Executive Committee met and decided Mr Corbyn should be reinstated.


A spokesperson said the party appeared to have "expedited" Mr Corbyn's case and that the committee set up to rule on his future was "factionally aligned" in support of him.

The decision sparked fury from the Jewish Labour Movement, which said it was "extraordinary".

pip08456 18-11-2020 11:37
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
BREAKING: Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer says he has taken the decision not to restore the party whip to Jeremy Corbyn.

papa smurf 18-11-2020 12:04
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36058677)
BREAKING: Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer says he has taken the decision not to restore the party whip to Jeremy Corbyn.
Internal war then.

wonder how he will explain this action when corbyn has been admitted back into the party.

Julian 18-11-2020 12:12
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Wan) kier
"In those circumstances, I have taken the decision not to restore the whip to Jeremy Corbyn. I will keep this situation under review."
Haha

What a cop out.

In other words until he is told to by the union paymasters or when he can bury the news. ;)

Hugh 18-11-2020 12:25
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36058683)
Internal war then.

wonder how he will explain this action when corbyn has been admitted back into the party.
Easily - membership of the Labour Party and being admitted to the Labour Whip are two separate things, just as they are in the Conservative Party (when BoJo removed the Tory Whip from 21 Conservative MPs, they still remained members of the Conservative Party).

Hope this helps.

papa smurf 18-11-2020 12:27
Re: Labour was responsible for anti-Semitic discrimination
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36058685)
Easily - membership of the Labour Party and being admitted to the Labour Whip are two separate things, just as they are in the Conservative Party (when BoJo removed the Tory Whip from 21 Conservative MPs, they still remained members of the Conservative Party).

Hope this helps.
Yes it does thank you.


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