A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53804323

I think that this government really has to step up or be seen as the government that threw the pandemic exam group under the bus.I also foresee a whole age group most likely to put their future votes to another political party unless Boris and co address the situation in a timely manner.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

From what l hear in this last half hour another screeching big U turn is becoming increasingly likely as Tory MP's pile the pressure on a increasingly embattled Education Secretary.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Who gets to make the choice? If teachers are biased towards their pupils and the "board" looks to correct that bias is that wrong?
If the government sought to interfere with the "board" in other situations would we hear complaints that they are seeking to bolster support and ignore the "experts" that are put in place?
The situation is unique (one hopes) but my understanding is that the "board" tried to normalise the teacher supplied grades taking into account past performance of the school, this should have then left a few outliers - students performing better than the school's performance would indicate and they should be easier to be dealt with.
Trouble is whatever model is used would advantage some and disadvantage others. The model used does seem to have lowered grades unexpectedly and for some by a large margin. Do we run a new model? Would that solve the problem? Girls tend to do better when marked over the teaching year and boys better in exams.
---
The other thought is that if the uni's know how the model has adjusted grades they could adjust the offers.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Interesting point here showing how the algorithms favoured the smaller and mostly private schools:

Up to 5 students doing an A-level: You get the teacher's predictions.
5-15 students: Teacher's predictions carry some weight
15 + students: Teacher's predictions carry no weight

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/stat...724032/photo/1

And here where outstanding candidadtes at poorly-performing schools could not be identified
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/stat...583360/photo/1

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Screw em, send em picking veg & flowers instead. University education means bugger all . . . just look at the politicians that have one, and then use the word 'clever' while looking . . go on, I dare ya :D :D

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

There's nothing wrong with being stupid,it aint not never held me back :erm:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

This is what Gavin Williamson said on Saturday in the Times (Behind Paywall)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...sult-gwrhx8ztx

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Bit pointless, as most of the Uni places have been allocated (unless the Government relax the number limits, and allow over-recruitment for those who would have got a place with the Teacher Assessed results).

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Well, bit difficult having doctors or engineers without a degree, but whatever floats your boat...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Good news - the Government has relented.

https://news.sky.com/story/exams-u-t...rades-12051173

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

very sorry for children involved with this, but last year my granddaughter did her a levels predicted grades were 3a*s got 2a,s and a b not sure teachers are that good at calling this. got a place anyway . As she only needed 1a and 2b,s

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

The University admissions cap is to be lifted the government has just confirmed.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...isis-live-news

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Yup, because the offers are legal contracts, so the Unis have to fulfill their agreements (including the previous offers) - be crowded at Uni for the next 3 to 4 years...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I wonder how many students with inflated grades will drop out after finding the uni courses too demanding? :scratch:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

The Gov were on a hiding to nothing either way.

It was always just best to just let this year go, let the teachers give out the candy bars and focus on getting everything sorted for the next academic year.

None of what happened was anybody's fault. The kids didn't ask not to take exams and the Gov had no choice but to suspend exams.

Any method to "equalise" results would have resulted in shouts of unfairness, so they should have steered well clear of it.

Political naivety really.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

U turning is getting a habit for Boris and incompetent rabble. His only ministerial criteria was ' are you up for Brexit ? We'll work out which is your arse and elbow later..' (after Bozza works it out)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9568956.html

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

This affects both my nephew and niece

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Are you saying teachers give inflated grades?

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

It’s a fact. Which is the whole reason behind the fiasco, teachers should look on the mirror rather than blame Gov.

The grades submitted by teachers were 40% higher than previous years averages. One teacher even submitted all their class for A & A* for two subjects.

The grades for Just A & A* would have been 12.5% Higher than 2019

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/g...r-england-2020

So yes, that’s exactly what is being said.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

It was the Ofqual algorythm that was faulty. They need to take the blame for that, and appeared to have done so. The government was right to recognise this problem and rectify it quickly.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

And if you don't believe it was monitored and approved by the Department of Education (and the Ministers in charge), I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying... ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Ah, the blame everyone else and take no responsibility again. There's a pattern from this Govt.

As for quickly rectifying, that's a bit of a joke. Weeks ago when they were aware of the issue and before results were published might have been better. Not wait for public outcry and their own MPs to tell them to change it 'or else'.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Well I'm a retired teacher and I can tell you that the grading that teachers give are rigorously checked and rechecked by a whole department.It's never one teacher alone.But then why not slur a whole profession while you are about it.. :mad:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Exactly you name it and this government absolves itself of any blame and passes the blame on to someone else.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

It's a fact Maggy.

From the link I provided, and you probably didn't bother reading.

Teachers are humans and they have feelings for their students, and they would always give them the BoD. That is totally understandable.

But it also inflated the results.

Unless you think class of 2019 if 40% better than previous years?

I still the Gov, played it badly. They tried to do the right thing the wrong way.

It can work both ways. Class of '19 may be considered as having an advantage over other years, or their grades may be considered with suspicion for years to come.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I believe this entire fiasco is to support Universities who are desperate for cash now that many foreign students have decided not to come here.

Very little to do with actual education of all ages.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Perhaps because they are no more to blame than you. :sleep:

I could equeally say, you name it, and you blame "the government". :rolleyes:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Oh, yeah, you seriously believe that Gavin Williamson was given a demo of the algorythm? Even the Ofqual lot couldn't have tested that out. Had they done so, even those bozos would have seen that downgrading As to Ds would not be acceptable.

GW would have been reassured that the algorithym would produce a fair reflection of the actual grades deserved based on past teacher assessments compared with actual results. There was no reason for him to disbelieve his advisors in the Civil Service - after all, they are meant to be professionals in their respective fields.

Does anyone wonder why BJ wants to reform the Civil Service?

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

You have to face facts, Den. Ofqual 'experts' designed the algorythm, not GW. Ofqual has already accepted the blame, however much some would prefer to deflect this to the government.

I have been saying for some time on various subjects - Brexit, coronavirus, healthy eating experts advising government, privatisation contracts you name it. The Civil Service has a lot to answer for and has caused no end of problems for the government. The Civil Service appears not fit for purpose to me, if I may quote a phrase used by a former Labour minister who was similarly frustrated.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Ofqual, Civil Service ?? Make your mind up ! The beauty of public servants for politicians is that they can't answer back. Just like PHE are to blame for Coronavirus, any scapegoat will do, to detract from Government incompetence.

However, who is in charge, formulates policy and creates these organisations ? The buck stops with the Govt, they are responsible for the for the layers of bureaucracy who are just carrying out Gov. policy.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

It's not about who designed the algorithm, it's how the situation was handled once the implications of the algorithm were known. This was in the hands of the Government. The correct response was to accept teachers' predictions and this happened in Scotland. In England, the government doubled down for four days before accepting teachers' predictions.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

You mean they are expected to take care of the detail of public policy. The government set out what's required and the government expect them to do it correctly.

Are you saying the government should not be relying on these people to get it right?

Ofqual is a quango, those employed there are public servants, just like those employed in government departments. They are mostly as bad as each other.

The buck might well stop at the government, but the officers are actually responsible for the cock-ups.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Or maybe, that's how Ofqual officials described it to ministers - robust. However you look at this, our Ofqual 'experts' should have known better.

---------- Post added at 17:52 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

The government was conflicted, because it did not want to devalue the qualifications allocated this year. So it took them four days to work out a solution, big deal. I'm glad to see that out of all the options they had before them, they took the right one. Now they just need to make sure that the universities make allowances for this and agree to take on those who would have unfairly missed out.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I see - make it somebody else's problem...

The Unis can't suddenly make extra labs, including lab equipment, or workshops available (in the case of science, medical, veterinary, engineering, etc. degrees), or suddenly find thousands of extra accommodation rooms in under a month, or get extra textbooks at short notice (they are often limited print runs), or get extra lecturers quickly, or upgrade the network infrastructure at short notice.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

And yet you completely missed this.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I didn’t miss, it didn’t seem like something that mitigated the situation to me.


Is still a grade too high or a grade too low, but mainly high it would appear.

Within one grade still makes 4 B’s into 4 A’s and A’s into A*’s.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Any evidence to support that position?

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Hugh, if you’re going to debate, don’t be an arse about it.

Results were downgraded 39%

And upgraded by 2%

What way round do you think it was?

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

There is no way this was going to end well.

The teachers grades caused an historic improvement in scores. Obviously not true. That isn't teachers giving nonsense grades to make themselves look good but seeing what they consider the true capacity of their students, at least as they see it, but exams don't test the true capacity of students. They're a one-shot moment. Some students do better than expected though talent, last moment cramming or a fortunate set of questions. More often students fall short due to stress, a bad day or a unfortunate set of questions.

The teachers grades are a best-case scenario for each students. They would therefore be inflated.

But to judge them by an algorithm is unfair too. It may in the aggregate prove to be more accurate but in doing that they ignore the individual. Students who outperform their cohort are smacked right back into line. You come from an area with underperforming students and therefore you underperformed and we do not care about your own work.

The only way to do this would be to give those children their months of education back. Then let them take the exams this winter. Bail out the Universities to miss one year of intake. Maybe do the same for the years underneath as well, offset the school year to allow everyone to catch up.

Because next year we have another problem. Another cohort of students taking their GCSEs/A-Levels having missed a large part of that education. Are we about to see the biggest drop in results in our recorded history?

The 2020 cohort are going to have great results. The 2021 will record a massive drop. This is not fair.

And every year underneath them have also missed months of education. You can't replace that with an algorithm and pretend it didn't happen.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

:clap:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

But that would never be viable so.................

It’s all a mess, no one is really at fault, things could have been done better, hindsight is always 20:20, it was never going to please everyone, teachers are as much to blame as anyone, the Government got it wrong and then capitulated...........so why are people still whinging?

Any way, why isn’t the government ensuring the weather stays nice? They’ve had enough notice the weather was going to change and they’ve done nothing about it.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I'm not sure that whinging is an accurate term. The issues seem to be:
- Some people whose grades have now been revised upwards cannot get onto the courses they want to because they are full.
- Universities who have increased their uptake on courses will face increased costs not fully covered by fees. Who will cover this?
- Gavin Williamson has tried to pretend that the situation came as a surprise. This is adding insult to injury. The situation was predicted back in July both in The Times Education Supplement https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-w...des-may-change and the Commons Education Committee warned him as well.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-only-22538255

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

By a crappy algorithm that "risked inaccuracy and bias against young people from disadvantaged backgrounds"

So your evidence is something was was shown to be crap -it may be you who is being an arse...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Irrespective of the method, they were downgraded Because compared to other years the marks given were inordinately high.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Full of privileged kids who got their marks upgraded,this whole thing stinks ,they should rip it up and start again.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Been thinking.

The EU are vaguely competent, maybe we should outsource things like health and education to them ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Well i guess you have to try everything once:D

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

The privileged kids at private schools already had the grades that their teachers said they would as the smaller schools were excluded from the algorithm. This just gives kids at state schools the same treatment.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

But the Government have had to do this a number of times already: PPE, Testing, NHS contract tracing app and their approach to education. It's not out of line to ask them to get it right the first time.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Unless you are perfect and get everything right first time, then you are not in a position to criticize others.

No one has ever had to do this before, so of course mistakes are made, at least they are then corrected (if necessary).

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Yup, it's dead easy with hindsight.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

No one's asking them to predict the lottery numbers but the exams situation was warned a month and a half beforehand. So, plenty of times to get things right. The Chancellor has shown how to do things properly but he's head and shoulders above some of the clowns in Government.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Well it's our Government. We're entirely in a position to criticise them on their performance.

And I don't think they need to get everything right. I am quite forgiving of their late lockdown because it made sense to me at the time, it's hard to get right and a small delay can have drastic impacts.

But time and time again if the show a failure to plan that we can object. The NHS app was pathetic. We all knew that would not work and they pushed ahead for months. There was no excuse for that level of incompetence. Same with exams and schools. This didn't happen in March or April but June/July. They had the time. They got it wrong.

In isolation these things happen but if it keeps happening then why can't we criticise? This is the Government.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Not on this forum you're not ! ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Strange how some are quick out of the blocks to criticise other political parties but quckly develop convenient amnesia when its the government.;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I’ve said from the start that the government have handled it badly, and should have just let every thing slide for one year.

But let’s also remember why they took the moderating action ( that they royally screwed up)

If teachers hadn’t given out grades like Corbyn gave spending promises they wouldn’t have felt compelled to intervene.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Always got to find the entirely innocent to blame. Just like this government.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

If teachers had given lesser grades it would have reflected badly on their teaching abilities,it's human nature to make yourself look better at your job than you actually are,problem is it's the kids that have suffered because of this.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...c7d03fa8c2c77b

Readable link...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Pretending that it only just came to light when he had a report on his desk on 10th July is really bad form. It won't do the government long-term good if BoJo keeps Gavin Williamson in his current role, his reputation is in tatters.

There's now an issue with BTEC
https://news.sky.com/story/btec-resu...inute-12052706

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

This years 16yr olds are 40% cleverer than last year too!

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Here it comes, the next cabinet reshuffle ;)

I'd suggest Fisheries to Transport, Education to Public Health (or whatever it's called now), Transport moves to Foreign Policy, and Jfman to Business & Commerce.

That should sort things quite nicely, leaving those who miss out on a new role the freedom to post their "I could do better" rants on Twitter & Facebook :p:


*smirks and goes off to listen to 'Kaiser Chiefs - I Predict A Riot' *

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

And maybe creating a Minister of Streaming too. :D

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Defence or Education.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Wonder if teachers will get a pay rise on the back of these results.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I doubt it..:rolleyes: After all blame has to be apportioned somewhere by this government.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Something to do with booze and eating out :)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

No words.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...?ocid=msedgntp

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Touch of jealousy because your firm didn't get the contract Andrew? ;)

We all know, and have for years, that they're all 'in it together' whether it's Conservative, Labour, Lib Dems, SNP etc. I find it surprising that people are still surprised by this :D

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Why not both? :D

Anyhoo, I have been pleasantly surprised by the positive messages of support on this forum towards the students who are going through a very stressful time in their lives, and through no fault of their own, have had a very important part of their education banjaxed, which could affect a reasonable number of their futures.

I thought some of our posters were cynical, cold-hearted, and unfeeling, but the deep understanding, compasssion, empathy, and sympathy shown to these teenagers in this very difficult time, and the warm messages of support, just showed me I was wrong...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Not my line of business but I'm left speechless that yet another uncontracted tender fails and now we learn it's Gove's mates. The country seems to be going backwards in terms of transparency. We're becoming more the English Patient and less Great Britain. False equivalence should not trump democratic scrutiny.

---------- Post added at 11:43 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

;)

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

In which case, don't pick up the phone to your mates so that there are no suspicions of corruption.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

:clap::rofl:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I wouldn’t expect a pay rise either if I’d caused a national embarrassment by handing out A’s like fortune cookies at A and GCSE level.

http://news.sky.com/story/gcse-resul...rades-12052904

. Must be great to mark your own work and reassure yourself at how good a teacher you are. Like loving the smell of your own farts.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

The good news is we can definitively prove the young are more intelligent than the old. All those bitter folk professing their “wisdom”. Well, lads, we’ve the cleverest ever teenagers going.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Yes well done the young people. They'll need their wits about them to cope with the legacy this generation is leaving:- climate change, Brexit, massive debt and nasty viruses...
Tbh I do have a bit of hope, they seem a lot more sensible than we are.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I'm sure prospective employers will know how to apply moderation to these inflated grades.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Probably employ an older person ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

. . . or one of the many 20 year old economic migrants that have - amazingly - the full 'skill set' required for the role . . . (will work for peanuts) ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I can't see what all the fuss is about, i left school with 3 f's and 2 off's and never looked back ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

We are often amused by your erudition and shining wit... ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I suspect that many posters perceive themselves to be shining wits or similar. ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

;)

https://media.tenor.com/images/14ab9...a9d8/tenor.gif

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

I know, it’s difficult - I read some of your posts, and think "he can’t be being serious...". ;)

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

<someone who posts things I disagree with, or questions the basis for my propositions> ≠ <pot stirrer>

hth...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Yes miss......:hyper:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Head have rolled: https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...r-exams-fiasco

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Pushed or jumped?Sacrificial offering?

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Probably the Sacrificial offering.

Give it a few months and she'll turn up somewhere else :D

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Nah, she just made a complete arse of it...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Just like her boss then...

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

:tu:

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Agreed. Did she not think to tell her staff to actually test the algorithm before approving it? Very careless and unprofessional. Ofqual assured ministers that the algorithm was robust. Were they supposed to disbelieve their advisors? Of course not. She had to go.

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Re: A-level and GCSE results fiasco.
 

Which person is her " Boss " ?