Black Lives Matter
 

It needs its own thread, looking at the scenes in London today, and previous days.

It’s horrific what happened to that man in the USA, and it is right to be outraged, but it didn’t happen here. Black U.K. citizens don’t need to fear being killed by the police, and before Hugh posts a load of links yes, I think it’s about 1 black person per year dies in police custody, 14 white do, but based on % population black people twice as likely .....but it’s splitting hairs as the numbers are so low anyway.

Black kids, in London especially, should be far more scared of other Black kids, than the police.

Black lives do matter, but they seem to matter less to other Black people.

If there were protests of this scale regularly, to the amount of young black kids being murdered every week in this country, I’d get behind that.

But for a person in another country, that has struggled with civil rights for longer and harder than we have. I understand coming out in solidarity, but defacing our monuments to our war dead. They’re disgusting.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Off topic post removed, stick to the topic.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I find it deeply annoying that the police have had to get involved in this stupidity ,we are in the midst of a pandemic,this has been blown out of all proportion,it's sad that a life has been taken but ffs get a grip,there's an invisible killer stalking us all,looking at the crowds today all i can say is if Black lives do matter then go home and stay safe.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

There's multiple instances of police brutality in the UK against minorities, and miscarriages of justice, and disproportionate sentences compared with white, middle class people who commit the same crimes. Possession of cocaine being one.

That said, I'm not sure now is the right time to protest. But it's buying our head in the sand to pretend these injustices don't happen here (albeit not on the same scale).

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I think the protests were a bad idea given the Coronavirus pandemic. Social distancing is the precise opposite of congregating in a giant mass. I appreciate there are some who'll always say it's a bad time for a protest but this is legitimately a very bad time for a mass gathering.

I also agree that the same issues that are in America do not apply here and it's rather pointless protesting against killing in America here.

However, just because we don't have those problems doesn't mean we don't have other issues around race. I imagine this forum is predominantly white so it's hard for us to have much experience as to what those issues would be though.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I apologise in advance if I, later in the thread, raise relevant information and back them up with appropriate links.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa... ;)

btw, I don’t think the racism in this country is as bad as the USA - but that’s not a great caveat, imho (sort of like "my drink driving isn’t as bad as my mates - he does it most nights, I only do it once or twice a month...).

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Pah you can prove anything with facts you know

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

No one is suggesting such, racism exists, and violence around racism exists. But such instances as Stephen Lawrence and Damilola Taylor are very rare.

Yet young black boys being killed by young black boys is all too common

That is the real issue that needs to be addressed.

Well to be fair this country is very much still “predominantly white” as of 2011 3% of the population were black ( not including other ethnicities). So based on CF membership that’s 2,860.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

This is a discussion that needs to be had and one that’s likely to be painful if people are prepared to examine themselves.

Whilst the levels of police brutality aren’t to the degree of the US let’s not pretend that racism isn’t a significant issue in this country.

Let’s start look at stop and search figures by ethnicity in the UK

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....-search/latest

Why is the rate so high for the black population?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Perhaps it's time for everyone to step up and challenge those who express racist views.Not letting family members get away with racist remarks is a start.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

That includes the black community.

In regards to stop and search, Given the level of knife crime and Black against Black violence, I would expect it to be high.

What I would like to see is a stat that showed how many of those stops and searches led to an arrest.

If it clearly showed that these s&s are frivolous, and harassment of a demographic, I’d be the first to condemn them. But if they are yielding results and keeping the streets and people safer then I’m afraid it’s not the police that is the issue.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Dunno mate, is there another set of crime figures somewhere that shows the chances of a black person carrying a knife (or any weapon) is 500% more than a white person carrying one?


just asking if there's a reason police are more apt to stop/search those :shrug:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Ok so the same question to both you and Pierre.

If a large amount of black youths are carrying knives. High levels of black on black crime. Why is this?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Gangs

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Ok, why are they in gangs ?

Here’s my point, I don’t believe that black people are genetically predisposed to commit crime more than white, Asian or any other ethnicity.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

In many cases that'd unlikely to succeed. You don't look far to see how the genuine concerns of the black community are immediately dismissed.

The opening post, immediately sought to downplay many of the issues they face as irrelevant. Others have sought to establish - as fact - that many issues faced by the BAME community simply do not exist.

Tens of thousands didn't wake up this morning and take to the streets for a laugh, because they believe they have equal opportunity but fancied a day out. Anthony Joshua the world heavyweight champion in boxing - joined the protests.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Massive question, lots of socio-economic and other things at play, but that is not the police’s problem.

If, for whatever reason, more black young men carry and are willing to use knives, then the police are obliged to address that.

---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:50 ----------

Of course they’re not.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I’m not for one minute suggesting that the police shouldn’t address it. And you’re right it is a massive question. But it’s a just one massive question in a series of massive questions that needs to be answered.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:55 ----------

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52892949

Some food for thought here.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The police are obliged to address crime in an even handed and fair manner. Not disproportionately target people based on a racial profile.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

But you are/were suggesting that the police are not addressing it fairly, disproportionately stopping and searching the black community more than any other group.

But if that group are more of a risk than others, you accept it is right to target them?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

No, it didnt.
You just like to argue about everything, as this topic [like many others] is already showing.

Indeed, they obviously decided the current laws of the land, and especially social distancing, dont apply to them, and that potentially catching or spreading CV19 is a great idea. :dozey:

Who ? So ? Obviously another fool who will no doubt be complaining if/when he gets ill.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

They've probably felt that if enough people turn up, the chances of them being charged are close to zero, not that the laws of the land don't apply to them. But they are being reckless in my eyes and undermine the sacrifices that everyone especially key workers has made to date.
I don't believe there's any evidence to support the theory that they believe catching or spreading it is a good idea. They probably feel it's a risk worth taking to apply pressure at a timely moment.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Well thats ok then, we can all go back to normal, and forget about the lockdown, as long as we feel its a risk worth taking.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

l remember my first strong experience of racism was when l was about 13 years old and it was a New Years celebration at home and quite a few were there including the parents friends and a few acquaintances.

One of my families acquaintances passed some comments using racist language towards my younger brother and l.

My Dad and several of my older brothers were not happy as one can imagine and called him out over this and told him to get out straight away which he did and that was that.

Has racism gone away and the answer to that is quite clearly no , has societys intolerence to any forms of racism got better and the answer to that is yes.

Will we will having this conversation in 40 years and the answer is yes.

Remember quite a lot of racism is disguised and subtle rather than being public or obvious.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I don’t think anyone is suggesting racism is gone, it never will be.

But BLM was a slogan/movement set up in the US directly because of black people being killed by the police.

That doesn’t transpose to over here.

If they were to protest about gang culture and the amount of black people being stabbed every week, well I’d get my placard and join them........but they’re not.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

So starting at home doesn't work for you? So lets just forget self responsibility shall we. If we don't educate our families as a start how can it begin?

I'll also remind you that children are not born racist,they are taught to be so..if we educate the young to avoid it then it becomes easier to face it down in the playground,the street,the borough,the town,the city. If it was a subject that white people weren't afraid to confront in the past perhaps we would be at a stage where we didn't need to be confronting it now.

I have never forgotten the conversation I had in a London Primary school playground in 1959. Asked where I had come from I innocently answered Nigeria. The next question was "Why aren't you black then?" Ignorance is something to be educated against..as that idiot found out.;)

---------- Post added at 09:05 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

Black communities live in the worst areas for resources and education..that's what needs addressing.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It's not ok and I condemned it in the same post. I have a bit of form here as I also condemned the actions of a famous transgressor who should have gone to Specsavers. ;)

You and I weren't there yesterday but Sky News was and subsequently reported the following.
https://news.sky.com/story/george-fl...s-out-12002036

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I didn’t say it didn’t work for me, I said it’d be unlikely to succeed. Unfortunately many of these things are entrenched in generations, even before I was born. Political parties, across the world, enjoy “othering” as a cheap way to appeal to the majority of the population by arousing suspicion against minorities and appealing to cheap, often evidence lacking, stereotypes.

In the absence of it succeeding all you can do is hope that over time future generations become enlightened. The same way the societal norms of the 1800s, 1900s and 2000s are vastly different on a range of issues e.g. religion, role of women, sexuality, gender, etc. You are unlikely to convince someone who became an entrenched racist in the 1960s that all their lives they’ve been wrong. Their entire mindset is driven by the idea that minorities either shouldn’t be here or should be grateful that they are and not complain about it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

What's the difference between 'racism' and 'hate crime'?

Is one of them simply to do with skin colour?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Racism is a broad concept. Hate crime is a (recent) specific legal concept relating to regular crimes getting recategorised based on the motivation behind the crime.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

aah, so a couple of Polish chaps beating the crap out of a Slovak isn't racist, but if they beat the crap out of a hindu it is?

I'm not even sure who categorises these crimes anyway, is it the police, the CPS, or the media? ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And how does anyone become enlightened? By education. Where to start? In schools as a starting point. It NEEDS to be taught on how to avoid entrenched thinking.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Depends which concept of race you are going with. The law is defined by Parliament, arrests are decided by the police and charges by the crown prosecutor or the district attorney if you are in America. Each of these levels are open to bias.

I'm not massively educated on the specifics in English law.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Ive recently been called a racist for saying "All lives matter not just black lives". The woman went mental at me and said i was racist.

If it had been a bloke the way they were towards me id have thumped them thats how bad they reacted.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I agree on that.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Black, white, ginger, blonde, fat, skinny, gay, straight. We are all human and bleed the same colour blood. This might be an extreme stance but I now believe that things such as black lives matter or LGBT are making things worse than better. Its creating an us and them attitude. It’s segregating people when we should be uniting as one and flushing out the bad people.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Trouble is people use the all lives matter response as a whataboutism issue. At the moment Black lives is the issue because it's been shoved under the carpet every single time it's been brought up. Nothing ever gets done about it by anyone for all of my life. I still remember the no blacks signs in London in the 50/60s when I was a child.Equal rights legislation did help but we still need to do more.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Black lives matter no more than white lives matter. If we want to fix the problem, the first thing we need to do as humans is stop separating who we are. We aren't black, we aren't white. We are just human and some humans are good and other humans are bad. Until that's taught to people, in my opinion there will always be trouble. Let's stop segregating ourselves into groups and let's fight the issue properly. All lives matter. I don't need to be told black lives matter as I'm not racist.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It's easy to claim that when you are white and actually the privileged majority. White people do not know what it is to be considered less than others. The nearest I might get to be considered unequal is as a woman which I have experienced in my lifetime.It really stings when your worth is considered to be less than a man.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Nice sweeping statement, which I'm sure is completely untrue.
I'll bet there are countless 'white people' who are considered "less than others", and I suppose all this fuss about mental health is complete nonsense ?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The above is exactly what I'm talking about. Two things here. You've just assumed I'm white and then labelled me different to a black person.

I'm not white, I'm a human. Let's start the education there. We are all equal to each other. I'll fight for racism to be rid in this world but my opinion is that can only happen more if we now stop separating ourselves into groups. It's now creating an us and them situation which is exactly what it shouldn't be doing.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I'm not white I'm a human, it's that kind of thing that causes divisions.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Yes but the BLM movement is a movement against The authorities killing Black people and that is not the case here.

The authorities are not the cause of black deaths in the U.K.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Why? Who is not a human?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

You're dictating on how you want to be treated. You don't want the label of black, white or whatever. you want to be treated differently to just about everyone else and you still want your views to mean something. It's like what is it 50 odd shades of gender now, but you're still either male or female. If you don't like it or if that is an issue then it is no one else problem other than your own.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I'm human, you're human. We are all human, we all bleed the same colour blood. If you want to separate people into groups, go ahead, but that's part of the problem, separating them.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Separating people into groups of any kind is inevitable, to say otherwise is being simplistic and not grasping the issue.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

What issue? That people die everyday to horrible people? Stuff like this brings out the ugly in people. People rioting, people getting hurt in these protests. Protests while still on lockdown of a global pandemic which could make things worse and ironically result in more deaths.

In my opinion the issue is clearly an us verus them issue. And the sooner that is stopped, the quicker things get better. Stop labelling things, stop grouping people together and fight the bad in people as one group of humans. Then all of a sudden, black lives don't matter because all lives matter.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Your point was “we’re all human”, And shouldn’t be categorised into racial groups, but that is simplistic. There are all kinds of racial and socio-economic groups that people belong to and that affect people in different ways. It’s very complex but the “we’re all the same” angle doesn’t work as we are not all the same.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

We are all the same in a debate about black lives matter. We are all human, we are born then we die, we all bleed the same blood. I'm not denying black people don't exist or anything similar to that, I'm saying we shouldn't be labeling groups of people as it's segregating them which is something we are trying to fight against. One sure way of us
versus them situation is movements like black lives matter. You have then created a group which is segregating them over everyone else. Those of us that aren't racist know black lives matter. Those that are racist are now seeing the black lives matter movement as a us versus them situation which is the very thing we don’t want

All lives matter regardless of who you are. If we want to fight various situations such as what happened in America then we should be doing it as one, not separating it. We all matter and we can all fight it by helping each other.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

No we’re not

We don’t live the same lives, face the same issues, or have the same experiences and that can be said of any racial, sexual or socio-economic group.

Saying someone is black, white, Asian, oriental whatever, is not labelling someone, anymore than any other descriptor.

A black person is black, a white person is white, that’s just factual.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Why aren't we? Are only black people allowed to fight against it, are only white people allowed, what about Asians?

In the fight of equality which is what the black lives matter is about, surely the best way to fight it is to be equal, one, as in we are all human regardless of your colour or where you are born, as in, all lives matter. If you're starting out with something that isn't equal, then you're fighting a losing battle.

No, but we all bleed the same colour blood and we all die. Yes there is a thousand and one different things in-between being born and dying which makes us who we are, but if you want to fight a battle against racism, then we all need to be equal. Making a slogan up just about one set of people is not the way to be equal.

Fighting a global problem of racism and other things is were the problem lies. We are starting off by labelling black lives matter, which is a starting point of not being equal.

A black person might be black, a white person might be white but both are human which is factual also.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I can fight for racial equality, but I have no experience of racism against me, so I don’t actually really know what it’s like. Asians or any other minority may experience different types of racism.


. BLM is actually a movement started in the USA to highlight the deaths black people in America by the hands of the police.

It’s a lovely sentiment, but not reality. That’s the destination, not the starting point.

And In amongst those thousand and one thing are elements we need to identify and change if we want a more equal society.

But they are currently the ones that are less equal, generally.

because they’re not equal, at the moment. Generally, in the West they are not equal at all, for a whole host of reasons.

That’s right, and currently, generally, for many different reasons, the white person has a better outcome than the black person. So “saying” we’re all equal doesn’t cut it. Because we’re not.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And we never will be equal if we carry on labelling things such as black lives matter.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And yet when we (collective we, I didn’t personally) fought gay rights and equality, they did win on major issues such as marriage. Even though labelled “gay”

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I agree. But it seems to be going too far these days. I think the vast majority of people don't have a problem with black people or gay people, more in civilised countries. I'm not saying all the work is done but I now think its time to start being equal. And in my opinion, black lives matter is not the way to do it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I understand that there are serious issues within the black community. I agree “Black Lives Matter” in the U.K. is wholly inappropriate. The reasons for BLM to exist in America do not exist in the UK.

If we need to racial issues in the U.K., I’m all for it, but not under the BLM banner.

The black community needs Support, but also need to look within themselves.

Of course this general, there are well off middle class black families and plenty of white families that are destitute. We take that as read.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Well racism is all about ignorance so perhaps she had a point, they're not saying black lives matter more than white, they're saying black lives matter to, in fact perhaps they should have called the movement that but they probably thought it was so obvious it didn't need clarification

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Take a peek at the BBC link i posted. then lets discuss further.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Why is there such an issue with using the name? If it's used to highlight inequality and racism in society

Did you campaign for CIF to be renamed back to JIF ? ;)

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

And here highlights the lack of understanding of the issue.

Not one person is saying other life doesn't matter.

People are saying we need to prioritise black lives right now.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And here lies the problem. No one life should be prioritised over another. We are all human and should be equal. Starting from a point that isnt equal, such as black lives matter isn't going to make us equal. I'm all for all lives matter, in a way were I still understand racism exists and needs sorting, I just believe it's the wrong way of doing it.

Thats not me not understanding the issue, just wanting to solve the issue in another way.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Yeah, that's not the whole story though and there is not a simple answer. There is also this:
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....arrests/latest

If you arrest more people then you're going find more crime. That's true across society, however if you target a specific ethnic group more, then the conviction figures for that group are skewed. In order to say whether there is 'excess' crime, then you first have to have a consistent approach to where and how you are looking for it.

You can't tell me that you think this is right:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Because it represents something in the USA, that is specific to the USA and not the U.K.

No, because I don’t know what that is.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:11 ----------

I don’t think that is correct.

Regardless of the number of arrests on either subject. What is the conviction rate per 1000 arrests.

I’m pretty sure, I’d go so far as to say I’m certain, there are more white people arrested per year than black people.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

By your very logic then allied forces shouldn’t have got involved in the fight against Nazi Germany ?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Inequality and racism don’t exist in the UK?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The arrest rate is 3 times higher per 1000 people for the Black community than the white one.
Conviction rate is higher for the white community per 1000 than others:
You can't say with certainty that there is more crime in the Black community, just that police are looking for it more.

If the arrest rates per 1000 per ethnic group were the same, you could then start drawing simple comparisons. Until it is the raw numbers aren't the whole story.
There are, but that's because mentioned above, the white population in the UK is higher. As the government figures show, per 1000 people it's much higher in the Black community.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Police brutality and systemic racism towards the black community in the UK exists the use of the name is perfectly valid

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-ethnicity/

https://www.inquest.org.uk/bame-deat...police-custody

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Good stat, and that does show a disparity. If the arrest rate for Black was high and conviction rate high, that would suggest the arrest rate is justified.

But as it is the conviction rate is lower than for white, which suggests the arrest rate per 1000 is possibly disproportionately high?

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

Black U.K. citizens are not in fear of their life from the U.K. police.

They may be pissed off with Thevpolice, and feel oppressed, targeted even. But their “lives” are not In danger. Therefore there is no correlation with USA movement. It is not valid

Their lives are more in danger from others in their community, they should protest about that.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Black Lives Matter is not just about deaths from the police:
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
And BLM in it's current form was founded after the death of Trayvon Martin - who was not killed by the police. The anger there was the circumstances of his killer's acquittal in the trial.

And honestly, it is not the place of those not part of a community to assume what they are or are not in fear of.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I’m well aware of the history of BLM and followed many of the cases on American tv for many years.

Well “honestly” Ben , i don’t care what you think. I certainly can’t speak for the Black community, but I’m pretty sure when a young black man is out at night he’s not expecting to have a 9 inch blade stuck in his chest by PC Johnson? But those other 5 black kids that have been following him for the last 5 minutes just may do.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Depending where you are, and in most of England and Wales, you'd need to be more worried about white kids:
https://fullfact.org/crime/are-major...nority-ethnic/
As I said before, there are complex reasons behind any of the statistics, but making general statements is not a way to help any of us find a workable solutions to the issues.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

1. Well it’s not the police is it?

2. 2/3rd in London, and given that the Black population in London is over 13%, 4x the national figure, it is an issue not to be obfuscated.

Knife crime is a national issue, yes of course, more so in London - but my point is valid. Black young men are more likely to be killed by black young men than the police.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

https://unherd.com/2020/06/british-a...-not-the-same/

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Everyone is more likely to be killed by the non-police population than the police.

That’s absolutely irrelevant to institutional racism and inequality, that essentially the British Empire ran on, and still permeates British society today.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

No-one said they are exactly the same, but that article is not arguing there isn't an issue:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Black lives matter is not about fear of being killed by the police.It is about police brutality (which has led to deaths) and systemic racism. Why an intelligent person such as yourself is getting hung up on the name rather than focusing on the issue is beyond me.

And who are you to say a) what black people feel ? B) decide what black People should protest about ?

The most recent statistics from the Home Office and Ministry of Justice show:
In 2018-19, black people were more than nine times as likely to be stopped and searched by police as white people.

They were over three times as likely to be arrested as white people.

They were more than five times as likely to have force used against them by police as white people. of course the question is was it justified?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Here's some other stats to think about:
https://assets.publishing.service.go...nfographic.pdf

And yet

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I’ve been entirely consistent throughout this discussion.

Never, have I said there isn’t an issue.

BLM is an American invention to protest against state violence Against or inaction by the state on those that commit violence to the American black community.

That quite simply does not transpose here.

My point of black young men being more likely to be killed by black young men, Especially within London, again is totally valid.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Yes being a woman has had it's problems with worth...white and black and Asian.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

So mainly peaceful protests marred by idiots, as usual.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I'm not denying there is an issue within London, but it's not a pattern that holds throughout the rest of the UK.
https://news.sky.com/story/black-mur...-v-uk-11443656
So it's not 'more likely' as specific issue within the black community or indeed 'black young men'. It is specific issues within London, which warrants solving.

However whatever the reasons for the issues that happening within London, it doesn't excuse the issues that are happening when the BAME communities interact with the police and the justice system within the UK. And those issue are part of the Black Lives Matter demonstrations now happening.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And that has happened in the UK how many times?

Because state oppression, killing or lack of bringing to justice those that kill Black people is not an issue in the UK as it is in the USA.

I have a view and I will express it, who are you to try and shout me down?

Already been through this with Ben, he’s better at than you btw, and it seemed evident that there was disparity. Which might be annoying, upsetting, frustrating and it needs to be looked at.........but nobody dies.

I don’t know, do you?

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------

Not sure what you’re driving at then? Are you suggesting that white youths are killing black youths across the rest of the U.K o/s of London?

And what that article you posted goes into detail about is the victims, not the perpetrators - which is not the whole story.

The whole, “move along here, nothing to see, everything is fine in the black community, we’re all great, oppressed by the white man but we have no fundamental issues ourselves that we need to sort out, no all our troubles have been forced upon us.....rhetoric is tired, more so it is unhelpful, and untrue, but rather than look inwards as well as outwards, will help no one.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Again, no-one is saying that that I'm aware of, and I'd be interesting to see the links that you've found that says that.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Thanks.......doesn’t that back up my point?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I don't understand the relevance of the two. Unresolved issues within a community doesn't exclude campaigning to resolve issues that affect a community from outside it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Again, I’ve been completely consistent.

They can campaign, I wholeheartedly support them to campaign for issues, such as young black males killing young black males, predominantly in London.

But that is not what BLM are about, BLM is about state killing Blacks or the state failing to prosecute and convict Those that kill blacks. Which is a US issue not a U.K. issue.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Thank you to all those who keep trying to point out that us white people insisting that we can decide what, when and how black people should express their anger and frustration at centuries of arrogant, violent and discriminatory white superiority is a perfect example of the privilege we need to individually and collectively examine.

And a good place to start would be to accept that WE don't decide that BLM is about exactly the same issues in the UK as it is in the US.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

If the problem is with White police, then how come in "Black" countries, eg Jamaica, the figures are not exactly low. In this recent incident, 2 of the officers were not White(J Alexander Kueng and Tou Thao). Around twice as many White people as Black people, are shot and killed by Police in the US. Although there is a number classified as "unknown".

It's all about how you behave when cornered or under arrest. Most of us wouldn't face problems, as we were being arrested, because we recognise the futility of resisting and struggling. Not being under the influence of drink and/or drugs also help with that.

Anyone remember the Darcus Howe documentary, "Who you calling a ...".

---------- Post added at 03:39 ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 ----------

Certain people are going on about absolute drivel of, "Oh, it's not safe out there", and "We have a pandemic of black people dying every day", when all that is actually at the hands of black people.:confused:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Again the assumptions there. The issue that BLM and other organisations are raising in the US are about the culture within the police and other state and federal institutions. I don't believe anyone has said it's white police only, but a lot of the issues come from white police as the segregation and racism that plagues the US come from Americans with a European background for the most part.

It's the built in assumption that if you are black, you are immediately a threat, or require heavier handed tactics than if you're white. It's completely possible for someone from a BAME background to hold those views due to the environment they're in.

And as you brought up Jamaica - then that's also being raised as part of the current protests:
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...9?profile=1373
And about your 'more white people than black are killed by the police', that's true, but that's because there are more white people than black people in the US. This is the statistic you should be looking at:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-ethnicity-us/

That is a major generalisation. Many of the incidents do not involve violence or resistance on the part of those being arrested, and statistics that I can find do not back up the assumptions that black people being arrested are always more prepared for violence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

The issues that the black and other minority communities can face is that the US police will approach a situation with an assumption that escalates the situation. Traffic stops with guns drawn for instance. It can be different elsewhere but built-in assumptions are not unique to the US.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Me expressing my view, is a right, not a privilege

I'm not deciding anything, we're having a discussion, and it is my view that they are not.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

This is what BLM U.K. say they are about.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Hmm COPS ON THE RUN Black Lives Matter protest in London marred by violence as yobs hurl fireworks, chase cops and leave one soaked in blood
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/118035...rotest-london/

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Incidents like that are not unique to these protests, nor as far as I'm aware are they more likely at these protests.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I would say it's guaranteed to turn violent.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

On what basis?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The bad feeling and sense of entitlement that the protesters bring to the protest,pluss there is always an eliment who bring bricks bottles and fireworks/flares with them.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The day we can't protest peacefully, as the vast majority do, is the day we can say goodbye to the UK.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And that is the key words.

But also where is the social distancing as that was non existent.:(

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

So basically they just hate White, straight, Men - that's me out then.

This is a just a group that has appropriated the title BLM from the american movement.

And I continue to be consistent in my appraisal of them.

They should call themselves British Blacks hate British White straight men - that fits better with their mission statement and they are nothing to do with the the american movement.

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------

oh the bastion of the middle ground David Lammy, has already used the Cummings excuse this morning for that one.

and that this is a much too an important higher cause , than to worry about a piffling thing such as Social Distancing - perfectly fine.