Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9154936.html

There doesn't seem to be much (validated) evidence of voter fraud in the UK - Out of 44.6 million votes cast in 2017, there was one conviction resulting from the 28 allegations of in-person voter fraud.

https://www.electoralcommission.org....ral-fraud-data

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

So how do you know how much fraud there was? That is the point, it can, and does go unnoticed. Where there was trial of the scheme, the potential fraudsters will have avoided it. Therefore lack of suspected fraud in that trial is meaningless. It could even be seen as a sign that the scheme worked.

Tower Hamlets election fraud mayor Lutfur Rahman removed from office
Maybe that the real reason for lack of discovered cases.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

This would seem to be the resurrection of a national identity card scheme.

Some very quick checking shows
76% of population have a passport
33.6 million people have a drivers licence

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Or...

There aren't many.

Occam's razor (rather than lots of hypothetical unevidenced guesses).

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I'm one of them, I have the paper license with no photo :p:

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

So squaring the circle l would hazard a guess that several million voters don't have any of those two so unless there are other ways of confirming their identification that rules them out of casting their democratic vote.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Ditto.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

l have neither.:(

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

quote from the first post by Hugh . . .

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

That's exactly what I was thinking!

I suspect that by introducing this policy, the Labour Party is more likely to benefit from extra votes.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

The only thing I can see this achiving is a much lower turnout.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Well I think it’s a good idea.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I might be missing something, but I can't see how having a passport or a photo driving license etc will help if I sign the appropriate part of my post vote then hand it over to my local conservative party activist to fill in the rest on their way to the post box.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Thanks as l must have missed that.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Dito.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

It was Labour party activists, and even a senior Labour MP who went around helping people fill in the forms. The Labour MP admitted it, after being found out.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

It's the other way round OB as you well know ! :rolleyes:. Those without passports, driving licences are likely to be from lower socio economic groups and more likely to vote Labour. That's what's really behind this. We need to increase people's participation in democracy not decrease it.

Suspect it will fail just like they tried to change election boundaries. More fair minded Tories, there are a handful, will oppose it. The whole Queens Speech is a waste of time and will get voted down.

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:24 ----------

Or the Tories who spent thousands in the 2015 campaign transporting activists to marginals, and not declaring the expenditure against election rules. The isolated fraud cases aren't all on one side.

You seem to see fraud everywhere, benefits, voting. Not a very high opinion of the riff raff have you !

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

What is going to happen is a load of people are going to go to the polls unaware of this new policy and be turned away. There will be public information campaigns but they won't reach everyone.

The attempts to process the applications for council provided photo-id cards will be expensive and error-prone with many people falling inbetween administrative gaps because the council will be missing various details on many of the applications because the bureaucracy is a mess and we don't have a central database of citizens. Besides given the messes over the EU Settlement Scheme and Windrush how many people do you think trust the Government on these matters? Want to go look at how many European Citizens entitled to vote were turned away at the last European election?

So come the first election with this new system we'll see scandals over the applications at first and then scandals over it's implementation on voting day. This is going to be an expensive and bureaucratic nightmare in the making to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Absolutely inevitable.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Before the ones that were exposed, were exposed, there were none. No matter what the level of fraud, there would have been a point in time, where it could said to be free of fraud.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Indeed peoples trust is very low now and given the unmitigated disaster over the EU Settlement Scheme and Windrush another mess up is totally inevitable.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

There are multiple instances of Labour activists "helping" people fill out their voting forms. Can't be sure of the name of the Labour MP involved, but I think it was either Margaret Beckett or Patricia Hewitt. Then there was the £600,000 of illegal 3rd party donations to Labour, where of course nobody was prosecuted. Even Gordon Brown seemed to know it was going on, as he refused a potential donation because he knew it was dodgy.
Link
"a very private person", who appeared on BBC2's Newsnight before the new rules came into force, and complained about them. He had attended a Labour party workshop about the new rules.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Sorry, I was interrupted and didn’t fully explain myself. I also read that compulsory voting was being promoted, and this is what will, I believe, increase the Labour vote.

The ID thing is easily overcome.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Any proof of that as it has always been know that Conservative voters are more likely to turn out then Labour voters.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

It would appear to be nothing of the sort. The vast majority of people already have photographic ID of one kind or another and would not need a new dedicated voter ID card under this scheme. Anyone without a passport or a driving licence can get a voter ID document for the specific purpose of proving their eligibility to vote. A national identity card scheme differs fundamentally because it compels adults to obtain a card without any specific purpose in view.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I'd be willing to wager that this whilst this will initially be implemented in the way described above. Long term, it will probably keep being be expanded until such time as it transformed into a national identity card scheme.

It's a potential back door to eventually long term implement something that the government want...


I wonder how much a free document will cost to produce? and how secure/difficult to forge said document would be......

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I'd wager it won't be implemented, just like like id cards weren't, just like boundary changes weren't. Just the latest piece of electoral fiddling from the dark side...

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I know, that's why compulsory voting is more likely to get Labour voters out. I certainly don't see the need for photographic ID being a problem that cannot be overcome.

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

I would see absolutely no problem with compulsory ID cards.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

They were on the way until the Conservatives came to.power in 2010, and they scrapped it. Trust you'll be writing a snotty letter to them ? ;)

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I also wonder how it'll be done? If is just providing a photo alongside your name in the electoral register? Do you need to prove it is indeed you when applying for the card and, if so, how?

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Here’s how they do it in NI.

https://www.eoni.org.uk/Electoral-Id...d/How-to-apply

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

At least ID doesn't have to be current, so expired passports/driving licences will count.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Between three and four million iirc

Indeed, I've been looking for an excuse not to bother and solidarity with those unable to vote is as good as any...

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

20 million quid extra again iirc per national election

---------- Post added at 21:49 ---------- Previous post was at 21:48 ----------

Compulsory voting, doesn't sound very democratic to me...

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I think the initial set-up will be more expensive. Seriously, they will screw up the roll out. They always do. The confidence the Government seems to have in adding new levels of paperwork in-between our everyday lives despite each attempt screwing up badly is amazing.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I am a strong Labour voter.

But sadly, if there is a general election before December. Which l believe their will be.

One thing is for certain.

I am, NOT voting Labour. We all know that Momentum party pull Corbyn strings. I am not voting for man that is a ****.

I will vote Lib Dems

---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:22 ----------

Editoral **** is not a swear word

---------- Post added at 23:24 ---------- Previous post was at 23:23 ----------

For members. The word l have used begins with a 'T'

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Thing is Arthur given our crap electoral system, if you vote for a party that's 3rd in your constituency, you might be wasting your vote/helping the party you least want. Never mind voter ID, they should change the whole system so everybodies votes is equal/means something, no matter which constituency you're in.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I wouldn't carry an ID card. I know who I am and shouldn't need to prove it.

Passports, licences etc are entitlement cards to show that you are UK citizen, can drive etc.

Why should you need to prove who you are to vote, you can "prove" that you can vote in an area because you are on "the list"? Maybe taking the polling card should be compulsory but even then...

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I'm not prepared to allow others to use my identity to commit fraud and to scam me.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Many of the youngsters these days are more than happy to carry ID with them. Lots of first time voters turn up at the polling station with their passport and/or driving license and are quite surprised when they don't need to prove who they are. It's just us old crusties that have an issue with change.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I really don't understand your objection. The ID card would not be for the purpose of proving to yourself who you were!

It is prove to others that you are who you say you are.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

It's none of their business who s/he is.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I have no real objection to an ID card, if its free.

I would swap my driving licence for a photo one if they did it free, but they want to charge me - not happening.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

ditto :Yes:

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I have to show my ID if I'm picking up a parcel from the Post Office. Electing a person to office.....it's not unreasonable to be held to the same standard.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

You can use a debit or credit card for that purpose.

What ID do I need to collect my item?
Credit or debit card.
Bank or building society cheque/savings book.
Valid passport.
Driving licence.
NHS medical card.
Photo ID card (foreign national, military, police warrant, Royal Mail employee, NHS or senior citizen bus pass)

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/...issed-delivery

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

l used my debit card.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

So do i,so why not use it at the polling station,or your bus pass/Bank or building society cheque/savings book.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Because, maybe, they just prove you have them in your possession, not that they're yours?

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

:tu:

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Might as well just take your polling card then, same level of proof. Not everyone can get a Bank Account. This has sod all to do with fraud, more trying to persuade a section of society not to vote.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

[QUOTE=Mr K;36013996]Might as well just take your polling card then, same level of proof. Not everyone can get a Bank Account. This has sod all to do with fraud, more trying to persuade a section of society not to vote.[/QUOTE]

:tu:

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Who can't get a bank account then Mr K? They can't be on benefits.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Those of no fixed abode, who will struggle to claim benefits.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

There used to be a Post Office card account for those who could not open a bank account to get their benefits but apparently that is closing in 2021.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

https://financialhealthexchange.org....-a-preference/

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

How many of those choose not to have one, as opposed to cannot get one.

---------- Post added at 02:08 ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 ----------

The same standard would be a credit/debit card, not photo id.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

I have no issue with the idea of having an ID card..

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

:clap:

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Having had one for a purpose (a member of the Armed Forces), I had no issue then - but an ID card should have a purpose, not for unquantifiable reasons.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

at a time of massive identity fraud it might seem like an option..and frankly in an age of relentless CCTV coverage it's becoming harder and harder to avoid invasion of privacy anyway.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Ditto, I carried my military ID everywhere for well over a decade, and it "opened doors" that would otherwise would have been shut to me.

But I do not want to pay for a civilian ID, and would be wary of what private company was given the contract to issue them and maintain the databases.

Our daughter, almost 28 years old, looks a lot younger so gets denied access to clubs, pubs and other venues. Plus she often gets refused the right to buy alcohol or tobacco. She can't have a (£43) provisional licence due to her disabilities, has no need (yet) of a (£85) passport, has her (£15) Citizen Card ignored, and her French ID card leaves people bewildered.

With all the hoops she had go jump through to open a bank account, I would have thought it easy to just put her photo on her bank card.

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Good point about he database issues, it's getting hard to know just who to trust

Re: Government intends to bring in Voter ID law.
 

Trust is a big issue. When El Gov were thinking about a national ID card there was going to be all sorts of data and databases attached to it including medical records and bio-metrics.

Then there was the list of those who would have access to all that data and it was just about every man and his dog in government employ.

The temptation to capitalise that data would be too tempting for most governments.

I'm sure that a voter ID card would be subject to "mission creep" as more parts of government would be wanting to use it for checking other forms of entitlement such as benefits and NHS treatment.