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1andrew1 24-09-2019 23:22
Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Wow! Today is proving interesting on both sides of the Atlantic.
Quote:
An official impeachment inquiry is being launched into US President Donald Trump.
Nancy Pelosi announced the House of Representatives will examine whether Mr Trump sought Ukraine's help to smear former vice president Joe Biden, the frontrunner for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination.
At a news conference, the US House Speaker said: "The president must be held accountable. No one is above the law."
https://news.sky.com/story/impeachme...trump-11818757

Damien 24-09-2019 23:35
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
The transcript is being released tomorrow, don't see why they couldn't have waited for it. Also there is 'another whistleblower' that congress is set to demand testify.

It would be so stupid of Trump to have been cleared of anything that bad from the Russia thing to give people exactly what they were looking for in a new phone call.

Carth 25-09-2019 00:17
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
He's rocking the boat and people don't like it, it's the way the world is nowadays.

Reminds me of someone closer to home . .

Mick 25-09-2019 07:43
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
This will lead to sweet FA, it’s just another pathetic Democrat motive, but when and if it reaches the Senate it will not go anywhere. Impeachment has been on the cards for many Dems, Adam Schiff has never stopped talking about it. Democrat House Representatives Maxine Waters, Al Green have repeatedly initiated Articles of Impeachment that have never got anywhere.

Joe Biden seems to have a lot to answer for, it sure looks like he piled on pressure in 2014, in Ukraine, he’s seen on camera, saying he will old back financial aid, if the prosecutor who is trying to investigate his son, Hunter Biden isn’t fired.

Damien 25-09-2019 08:02
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Haven’t seen that footage? Kinky?

Mick 25-09-2019 08:22
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 

1andrew1 25-09-2019 08:27
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36011641)
Haven’t seen that footage? Kinky?
BIden actutally wanted the investigation to take place and felt the prosecutor was dragging hos feet, according to Sky News.https://news.sky.com/story/what-you-...trump-11818777

Mick 25-09-2019 08:41
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
But it’s not ok to threaten them with denial of money and when it’s your own son.

1andrew1 25-09-2019 08:55
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36011652)
But it’s not ok to threaten them with denial of money and when it’s your own son.
That's different from what you claimed originally though. If the President instructed you to do so, I don't see it being an issue.
But all this is a distraction from the Trump investigation. I genuinely can't believe he would ask a foreign power for dirt on his opponents after previous accusations. Let's see what the transcripts say but I suspect there will be ambiguity.

1andrew1 25-09-2019 17:20
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Ooops - per transcripts - Trump repeatedly asked Ukrainian leader to investigate joe Biden!
https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...shows-11819274

Hugh 25-09-2019 19:05
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36011728)
Ooops - per transcripts - Trump repeatedly asked Ukrainian leader to investigate joe Biden!
https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...shows-11819274
It’s not a transcript* - it’s a edited memo.

30 minutes of conversation don’t fit on five A4 pages - normal conversations are at around 130 words per minutes, and there are sub-2000 words in that memo (30 minutes x 130 wpm = 3900 words).

From the bottom of first page of the memo
Quote:
CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation.· (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty "Officers and-NSC policy staff assigned to listen.and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect the accuracy of the record, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation.
The word "inaudible" is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable to hear.
*a transcript is an exact written copy of a conversation/speech.

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

The White House has, apparently accidently, just sent its damage control talking points about the Ukraine matter to ... HOUSE DEMOCRATS.

Who have now released that information to the press and social media.

And apparently the White House just now sent a follow-up email trying to recall the original email.

Interesting times...

Damien 25-09-2019 19:08
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
It’s not enough. The memo looks bad, he clearly tried to get him to investigate a political rival. You need undisputed evidence he was holding back government aid to get more republicans on board tho

Hugh 26-09-2019 16:30
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Whistleblower’s letter released.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploa...nt_unclass.pdf

Mick 26-09-2019 18:01
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Nothing burger as per usual.

More interested in this Biden problem that the pathetic Democrats are trying to hide again.

1andrew1 26-09-2019 20:38
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
I don't think this memo is enough to impeach Trump. It's a pretty poor decision on Trump's part to seek Ukraine's help. What on earth was he thinking?

Mick 26-09-2019 22:27
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36011882)
I don't think this memo is enough to impeach Trump. It's a pretty poor decision on Trump's part to seek Ukraine's help. What on earth was he thinking?
He is the leader of a country, legally entitled to ask another country to help investigate someone surely?

Damien 26-09-2019 22:30
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36011895)
He is the leader of a country, legally entitled to ask another country to help investigate someone surely?
Not if it’s a political rival and generally the President should not be getting involved. Why for example did he refer them to his personal lawyer?

Anyway let’s see what comes up.

1andrew1 26-09-2019 22:39
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36011896)
Not if it’s a political rival and generally the President should not be getting involved. Why for example did he refer them to his personal lawyer?

Anyway let’s see what comes up.
Spot on.

Again, I don't think Trump will be impeached as a result of this. It does though damage his reputation amongst his non-core supporters and thereby reduces his re-election chances.

Mick 26-09-2019 22:47
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Trump won't be Impeached - not in the Republican controlled Senate, where it actually matters. They can Impeach him in the House of Representatives by simple majority, but in the Senate, they need 2/3's of 100 to convict and remove him from office and 54 of them are Republicans.

Damien 26-09-2019 23:07
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36011901)
Trump won't be Impeached - not in the Republican controlled Senate, where it actually matters. They can Impeach him in the House of Representatives by simple majority, but in the Senate, they need 2/3's of 100 to convict and remove him from office and 54 of them are Republicans.
Nope, he won't. Unless he does something REALLY stupid that they decide it's a worse risk for them to keep him than remove him.

jfman 26-09-2019 23:24
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
The embarrassment is fun though.

1andrew1 27-09-2019 00:12
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011903)
The embarrassment is fun though.
I am starting to feel sorry for him and his loyal followers, it comes across as plain stupid!

Mick 27-09-2019 00:19
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011903)
The embarrassment is fun though.
Yes the embarrassment is on the Democrats side. They lost the Russian collusion hoax. They cannot pursue obstruction of justice, so it’s round three with this pile of bullshit.

Anyway New York Times has just broke a story saying the Whistle blower is a CIA operative, placed at the White House.

Damien 27-09-2019 09:36
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
I mean it doesn't look great for Trump does it? He'll avoid impeachment because of the Senate but the White House's own transcript doesn't look good and the whistleblower's account that the White House tried to cover it up, ordering the deletion of transcripts, as well as that there seem to be multiple sources corrobrating these reports.

Stephen 27-09-2019 09:48
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Yeah I think the WH attempt to cover is the worst part of it.

1andrew1 06-10-2019 15:18
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Breaking: second witness has come forward

Mick 06-10-2019 16:46
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Where did the Crooked Democrats dream this one up from? :rolleyes:

Hugh 06-10-2019 18:27
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Let’s condemn it out of hand, then look at the evidence...

Mick 06-10-2019 19:31
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36012982)
Let’s condemn it out of hand, then look at the evidence...
Is that before or after Democrat Congressman, Adam Schiff gives a false representation of the phone call again?

1andrew1 06-10-2019 21:42
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
This whistleblower claims to have first-hand knowledge of the phone call. I still think nothing will come of it.

Quote:
A second whistleblower has come forward claiming to have first-hand knowledge of the phone call that triggered an impeachment inquiry into Donald Trump.
The lawyer representing the first whistleblower has told ABC News that he is now representing a second official from the US intelligence community.
Mark Zaid said this second individual has been interviewed by the head of the intelligence community's internal watchdog office but has not filed a complaint.
https://news.sky.com/story/second-tr...rward-11829164

Mick 06-10-2019 22:51
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
I thought the first witness had first hand knowledge, turns out they didn’t.

Pity creepy Joe’s chances of obtaining the Democratic nomination, seem to be slipping fast.

Hugh 06-10-2019 23:13
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36013009)
I thought the first witness had first hand knowledge, turns out they didn’t.

Pity creepy Joe’s chances of obtaining the Democratic nomination, seem to be slipping fast.
Didnt need to, under the Whistleblower Statute.

Anyway, he did have first hand knowledge, according to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community.

https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Docum...Complaints.pdf
Quote:
In fact, by law the Complainant – or any individual in the Intelligence Community who wants to report information with respect to an urgent concern to the congressional intelligence committees – need not possess first-hand information in order to file a complaint or information with respect to an urgent concern.
Quote:
The Complainant on the form he or she submitted on August 12, 2019 in fact checked two relevant boxes: The first box stated that, “I have personal and/or direct knowledge of events or records involved”; and the second box stated that, “Other employees have told me about events or records involved.”
As part of his determination that the urgent concern appeared credible, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community determined that the Complainant had official and authorized access to the information and sources referenced in the Complainant’s Letter and Classified Appendix, including direct knowledge of certain alleged conduct, and that the Complainant has subject matter expertise related to much of the material information provided in the Complainant’s Letter and Classified Appendix. In short, the ICIG did not find that the Complainant could “provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions,”

Mick 07-10-2019 00:48
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
He didn’t have, did have. Fake bullshit antics from the pathetic Democrats.

1andrew1 07-10-2019 01:14
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36013013)
He didn’t have, did have. Fake bullshit antics from the pathetic Democrats.
What do the whistle-blowers have to do with the Democrats? We can't assume their politics one way or the other.

TheDaddy 07-10-2019 03:50
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36013015)
What do the whistle-blowers have to do with the Democrats? We can't assume their politics one way or the other.
Course you can if it helps discredit what they're saying...

Damien 07-10-2019 07:52
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Again though, the White House transcripts themselves alongside the text messages revealed look bad for Trump.

GrimUpNorth 07-10-2019 09:15
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36013024)
Again though, the White House transcripts themselves alongside the text messages revealed look bad for Trump.
Maybe the stenographer on duty that day was a lying left wing commie democrat who saw their chance to discredit Trump ;).

Mick 07-10-2019 10:41
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36013024)
Again though, the White House transcripts themselves alongside the text messages revealed look bad for Trump.
Not an Impeachable conduct, the President of the United States should be entitled to have a private conversation with another foreign leader on a whole raft of issues, but because it's Trump, this doesn't seem to matter.

Let's face it, the loser Democrats have not got over their candidate, Hillary losing in 2016, they've been wanting to impeach Trump the day he took office, several attempts to initiate Articles of Impeachment against Trump have failed, The Russian collusion hoax, was a complete failure to them, so here we are, just over a year from 2020 election with not a hope in hell of any of the candidates beating Trump, so they are abusing the political tools, enshrined in the Constitution to remove a sitting President, only one problem, Democrats don't control the Senate, where it matters.

But just look at the issues going on with the Democrats at the moment - You have this Biden scandal with his son playing out, seriously dampening his chances of even winning the Democratic nomination.

Bernie Sanders, the Jeremy Corbyn equivalent to socialism, having a heart attack in last few days: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/u...-hospital.html - so it's looking like he will not be even fit enough to be President.

Several other Democratic candidates, basically nobodies, advocating Gun control measures, second amendment tweaking that will definitively stop Americans who love their guns, to vote for these.

Democrats have shifted to the far left and the average American won't vote for them in 2020.

There are whispers abound that even Hillary may run again.

Hugh 07-10-2019 17:21
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
It's not a "private conversation" if it's about Government business and dozens of people are listening in to record it for posterity - if he wanted a private conversation, Trump should have done what he did when he met Putin*; not have US staff or note takers present.

*at the November 2018 G20 summit in Argentina, and at the July 2017 G20 summit* in Germany.

*tbf, Putin's translator was present at both of these (but not Trump's), and Melania was present at Argentina

pip08456 07-10-2019 17:45
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36013088)
It's not a "private conversation" if it's about Government business and dozens of people are listening in to record it for posterity - if he wanted a private conversation, Trump should have done what he did when he met Putin*; not have US staff or note takers present.

*at the November 2018 G20 summit in Argentina, and at the July 2017 G20 summit* in Germany.

*tbf, Putin's translator was present at both of these (but not Trump's), and Melania was present at Argentina
So are you saying all Government business should be public? Recording for posterity is not the same as making public.

Hugh 07-10-2019 18:27
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36013094)
So are you saying all Government business should be public? Recording for posterity is not the same as making public.
No, I’m not saying that - I’m saying it wasn’t a "private conversation".

Anyway, speaking of public conversations...
Quote:
Donald J Trump
@realdonakdtrump

As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over...

16:38 07/10/2019 Twitter for iPhone

Mick 07-10-2019 18:57
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
And what has that got to do with the impeachment enquiry ?

Maggy 27-11-2019 13:03
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50567994#

Quote:
Jerrold Nadler, the Democratic chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said Mr Trump could either attend or "stop complaining about the process".
So what are the odds he will do either?

Mick 27-11-2019 16:23
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
He has every damn right to complain about the pathetic Democrat hoax.

Mr K 27-11-2019 17:11
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36018459)
He has every damn right to complain about the pathetic Democrat hoax.
One way or another he's a gonner....

Bet Corbyn is really looking forward to Trump's pre-election visit to the UK. Plenty of Boris/Trump photo opportunities ! ;)

papa smurf 27-11-2019 21:14
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36018460)
One way or another he's a gonner....

Bet Corbyn is really looking forward to Trump's pre-election visit to the UK. Plenty of Boris/Trump photo opportunities ! ;)
After his next full term.

Mr K 27-11-2019 21:52
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36018497)
After his next full term.
Jail term??

Mick 27-11-2019 22:06
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36018509)
Jail term??
A Sitting President cannot be indicted he has to have committed a crime first which we have been waiting for nearly 4 years to hear that he actually committed one, the last Democrat hoax cleared him - do catch up.

Last Warning - I am getting pissed off with the run around these certain topics get, time after time, if people have nothing new to add to the discussion and it just going to be the same old rubbish posted, then I see no point in them being open.

1andrew1 05-12-2019 15:34
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Impeachment proceedings now going ahead - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi

Quote:
The California congresswoman told Thursday morning's news conference: "The facts are uncontested. The president abused his power for his own political benefit at the expense of our national security, by withholding military aid and a crucial Oval Office meeting in exchange for an announcement for an investigation into his political rival."
Her statement comes a day after she held a behind-closed-doors meeting on impeachment with her fellow Democrats and asked them: "Are you ready?"
The lawmakers responded with a rousing "Yes", according to the Associated Press news agency.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50671570

papa smurf 05-12-2019 15:43
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36019282)
Impeachment proceedings now going ahead - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50671570
It's all smoke and mirrors combined with pointless political posturing,nothing is going to happen to Trump.

1andrew1 05-12-2019 19:36
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36019283)
It's all smoke and mirrors combined with pointless political posturing,nothing is going to happen to Trump.
Sounds like there's enough evidence there to make a go of the impeachment. I think he'll swerve jail though.

papa smurf 05-12-2019 19:58
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36019303)
Sounds like there's enough evidence there to make a go of the impeachment. I think he'll swerve jail though.
The Senate now has 53 Republicans, 45 Democrats and two independents who usually vote with the Democrats. Conviction and removal of a president would require a two-thirds majority. A conviction seems unlikely. Should all 100 senators vote, at least 20 Republicans and all the Democrats and independents would have to vote against him.

Mick 05-12-2019 20:08
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36019303)
Sounds like there's enough evidence there to make a go of the impeachment. I think he'll swerve jail though.
There is zero evidence, third hand witnesses who heard what someone else said, who heard what someone else said. Pathetic. It’s a Democrat hoax impeachment that will ultimately fail in the Senate where it matters. The Democrats have just likely, handed Trump his second term.

1andrew1 05-12-2019 21:00
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36019307)
The Senate now has 53 Republicans, 45 Democrats and two independents who usually vote with the Democrats. Conviction and removal of a president would require a two-thirds majority. A conviction seems unlikely. Should all 100 senators vote, at least 20 Republicans and all the Democrats and independents would have to vote against him.
Yes, minimum two-thirds majority required in the senate to remove him from office, so this is unlikely. But he could be formally impeached if a simple majority of the House votes in favour.

Info per https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...-says-11878824

Hugh 05-12-2019 21:43
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019308)
There is zero evidence, third hand witnesses who heard what someone else said, who heard what someone else said. Pathetic. It’s a Democrat hoax impeachment that will ultimately fail in the Senate where it matters. The Democrats have just likely, handed Trump his second term.
Except for those first-hand witnesses, of course...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...hment-hearings
Quote:
First-hand witnesses describe key Trump-Zelensky call on Day 3 of impeachment hearings

The third day of public impeachment hearings produced damaging new testimony against President Donald Trump, including for the first time from witnesses who were listening on the pivotal July 25 phone call between him and the president of Ukraine.

Mick 05-12-2019 22:08
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Except nothing. They are not first hand witnesses. :rolleyes:

1andrew1 05-12-2019 22:16
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019326)
Except nothing. They are not first hand witnesses. :rolleyes:
But if they were listening in on the call - which the PBS article confirms they were - then surely they meet the criteria of being first-hand witnesses?

Mick 05-12-2019 22:39
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
They cannot be first hand witnesses, only the bloody whistleblower is, which they have not testified.

A person who witnesses a 2nd hand conversation, is not a first hand witness. That is utter Bollocks. It’s hearsay evidence.

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36019318)
Yes, minimum two-thirds majority required in the senate to remove him from office, so this is unlikely. But he could be formally impeached if a simple majority of the House votes in favour.

Info per https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...-says-11878824
Just House impeachment is like a bucket of warm piss, pointless. The pathetic Democrats, are just using their grip on the part of the House they own, it will fail in the Senate.

How far left these illiberal muppet Democrats have gone will be shown.

Stephen 05-12-2019 22:40
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
But as most of their given evidence confirms what they all said then it must be true. Even the call transcript. If they listened in on the call, or were in the room at times of conversation then they were first hand witnesses.

Giuliani and others that were named as being part of it will need to be called up and give their side of it.

Mick 05-12-2019 22:50
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
The Whistleblower(if they actually exist), is the only first hand witness out of handful of about dozen or so, all the current witnesses who have testified, who the Democrats have currently called for public hearings, are people who’ve heard a 2nd hand conversation. A conversation that even Ukraine’s own President said Trump did not do what he is being accused of. This is just a partisan hoax, the 2nd from the Democrats because their first one failed, in the form of Mueller.

1andrew1 05-12-2019 22:59
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019332)
The Whistleblower(if they actually exist), is the only first hand witness out of handful of about dozen or so, all the current witnesses who have testified, who the Democrats have currently called for public hearings, are people who’ve heard a 2nd hand conversation. A conversation that even Ukraine’s own President said Trump did not do what he is being accused of. This is just a partisan hoax, the 2nd from the Democrats because their first one failed, in the form of Mueller.
I think your definition of a first-hand witness differs from others. Yours is that the person must have been one of the people in the conversation. The usual one is someone who overhears the conversation, either in person or electronically like a bug or tapped phone.

Mick 05-12-2019 23:10
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36019333)
I think your definition of a first-hand witness differs from others. Yours is that the person must have been one of the people in the conversation. The usual one is someone who overhears the conversation, either in person or electronically like a bug or tapped phone.
FFS-It’s not hard this, read what I Just said. None of the Witnesses that have attended the hearings, are witnesses to the call, they’ve overheard a second hand conversation.

Regardless of who’s read what, heard what, this impeachment will fail in the Senate. The latest tweet from Senate Republicans suggest the Democrats have already lost this 2nd battle.

Mr K 06-12-2019 08:35
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019335)
FFS-It’s not hard this, read what I Just said. None of the Witnesses that have attended the hearings, are witnesses to the call, they’ve overheard a second hand conversation.

Regardless of who’s read what, heard what, this impeachment will fail in the Senate. The latest tweet from Senate Republicans suggest the Democrats have already lost this 2nd battle.
All Trump's lies will be out there for the US public to see and hear though, regardless of what a partisan Senate decides. Trump is toast next year, but suspect he'll make a tactical withdrawal from the election through 'ill health'.

Stuart 06-12-2019 10:50
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36019350)
All Trump's lies will be out there for the US public to see and hear though, regardless of what a partisan Senate decides. Trump is toast next year, but suspect he'll make a tactical withdrawal from the election through 'ill health'.
They could be setting that excuse up, what with the recent "unscheduled" visit to a military hospital a few weeks back.

Of course, it could also mean he genuinely had reason to believe there is something wrong with his health as well. I don't think it was just a normal checkup, because the President's diary is booked months in advanced. I'd be surprised if those diary bookings didn't include scheduled checkups.

Mick 06-12-2019 11:50
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36019350)
All Trump's lies will be out there for the US public to see and hear though, regardless of what a partisan Senate decides. Trump is toast next year, but suspect he'll make a tactical withdrawal from the election through 'ill health'.
Creepy Joe Biden is not doing well at the moment, he’s an utter joke, called a supporter at one of his small rallies yesterday, a slob and perhaps they should do press-ups together. All they asked was what all this Hunter Biden stuff was regarding gas company he was hired to work for in Ukraine. A few days ago, Biden was on about his hairy legs. He is an absolute stumbling wreck, half the time he cannot remember what State he’s in.

Mr K 06-12-2019 12:10
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019365)
Creepy Joe Biden is not doing well at the moment, he’s an utter joke, called a supporter at one of his small rallies yesterday, a slob and perhaps they should do press-ups together. All they asked was what all this Hunter Biden stuff was regarding gas company he was hired to work for in Ukraine. A few days ago, Biden was on about his hairy legs. He is an absolute stumbling wreck, half the time he cannot remember what State he’s in.
it is a slight issue with the US system that in order to run for President you have to be a geriatric - Clinton was the only one to have any energy (too much ;))

papa smurf 06-12-2019 12:29
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36019368)
it is a slight issue with the US system that in order to run for President you have to be a geriatric - Clinton was the only one to have any energy (too much ;))
That odious bint Nancy Pelosi is 79,but i must say she don't look a day over 100.

Hugh 06-12-2019 18:25
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019326)
Except nothing. They are not first hand witnesses. :rolleyes:
https://apnews.com/f16de8818c054df781584ade533b9969
Quote:
The two witnesses in Tuesday morning’s hearing each listened to the July 25 phone call in which Trump prodded his Ukrainian counterpart to investigate Democrat Joe Biden.
Listening in to the live phone call between the two principals makes them first-hand witnesses - they didn't hear about what was said on the phone call from other people, they heard the phone call in real time as it was happening as part of their jobs.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/07/77545...p-ukraine-call
Quote:
Known Participants In The July 25 Call

AMERICAN SIDE
Donald Trump
U.S. president

STATE DEPARTMENT
Mike Pompeo
Secretary of state

WHITE HOUSE
Robert Blair
Senior Adviser to Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney

VICE PRESIDENT'S STAFF
Keith Kellogg
National Security Adviser

Jennifer Williams
Adviser for Europe and Russia

NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
Charles Kupperman
Deputy National Security Adviser

Timothy Morrison
Senior Director for European Affairs

Alexander Vindman
Top Ukraine expert

OTHER AMERICAN STAFF
May include duty officers, policy staff and translators

UKRAINIAN SIDE
Photo of Volodymyr Zelenskiy
Volodymyr Zelenskiy
Ukraine president

OTHER UKRAINIAN STAFF
May include translators and other staff on the Ukrainian side of the call

Mick 06-12-2019 19:33
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
They are not first hand witnesses to nothing because nothing happened with the call, as per Ukraine President own public statements.

Mr K 06-12-2019 19:38
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019416)
They are not first hand witnesses to nothing because nothing happened with the call, as per Ukraine President own public statements.
Were you there Mick? The witnesses were.

papa smurf 06-12-2019 19:45
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Was this phone call broadcast to the whole room so that both sides of the conversation could be heard??

Mick 06-12-2019 21:21
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36019417)
Were you there Mick? The witnesses were.
The UKRAINE President was. He said the phone call was not an issue, no quid pro quo. But remember you have Joe Biden on video, while Vice President, saying Ukraine wasn’t getting the money, unless they fire the prosecutor....

All this is immaterial. Impeachment will fail and Trump should win 2020 courtesy of the antics of the DemocRATS.

Mr K 06-12-2019 21:49
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36019430)
The UKRAINE President was. He said the phone call was not an issue, no quid pro quo. But remember you have Joe Biden on video, while Vice President, saying Ukraine wasn’t getting the money, unless they fire the prosecutor....

All this is immaterial. Impeachment will fail and Trump should win 2020 courtesy of the antics of the DemocRATS.
DemocRATS - excellent, see what you did there ;) Extremely clever, if I may say so, worthy of the orange blob himself.

Hugh 06-12-2019 23:10
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36019420)
Was this phone call broadcast to the whole room so that both sides of the conversation could be heard??
Yes, to the people listening in the Situation Room in the White House, as is normal practice.

papa smurf 07-12-2019 10:28
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36019445)
Yes, to the people listening in the Situation Room in the White House, as is normal practice.
Aren't these people sworn to secrecy?

Mick 07-12-2019 11:06
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Creepy Joe Biden, someone’s done a cartoon, using his own words....

Hugh 07-12-2019 14:39
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36019460)
Aren't these people sworn to secrecy?
Yes, but are allowed to testify in closed Congressional hearings, and then open Congressional hearings if appropriate clearances are granted.

Also, if the White House releases an edited transcript of the call, it is no longer Classified information.

1andrew1 22-12-2019 11:21
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Looks like - dare I say it - we have likely reached a CF consensus on this topic now.
1. Trump has indeed been impeached.
2. He won't be prosecuted but joins a short list of fellow US Presidents to be successfully impeached - Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon and Andrew Johnson.

pip08456 22-12-2019 11:34
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36020884)
Looks like - dare I say it - we have likely reached a CF consensus on this topic now.
1. Trump has indeed been impeached.
2. He won't be prosecuted but joins a short list of fellow US Presidents to be successfully impeached - Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon and Andrew Johnson.
Nixon was not impeached. It is debatable if Trump has thanks to Pelosi not sending the Articles to the Senate.

Harvard Law Professor Noah Feldman:-

Quote:
"Impeachment as contemplated by the Constitution does not consist merely of the vote by the House, but of the process of sending the articles to the Senate for trial," Feldman wrote in Bloomberg. "Both parts are necessary to make an impeachment under the Constitution: The House must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment. And the Senate must actually hold a trial."
Feldman was one of the legal experts called by Democrats to testify before the House Judiciary Committee earlier this month and has advocated for Mr. Trump's impeachment and removal from office.

Hugh 22-12-2019 13:41
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/20/u...n-impeach.html
Quote:
Impeachment happens, according to Noah Feldman, a Harvard law professor, only when the House transmits the articles of impeachment to the Senate.

So “technically speaking,” he said, “the president still hasn’t been impeached.”

That idea has left much of the legal academy unconvinced, including Laurence H. Tribe, one of Professor Feldman’s colleagues at Harvard. “The argument is textually bizarre, historically inaccurate, structurally misguided and functionally misleading,” Professor Tribe said.

Professor Feldman was one of three constitutional scholars to testify in favor of impeachment before the House Judiciary Committee this month. Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University and the sole scholar invited by Republicans to testify against impeachment at that hearing, also disagreed with Professor Feldman.

Mr. Trump was impeached on Wednesday, Professor Turley said. “Article I, Section 2 says that the House ‘shall have the sole power of impeachment.’ It says nothing about a requirement of referral to complete that act.”...

...“If you think of the other meanings of the word ‘impeach’ — impeaching the credibility of a witness, for instance — it happens when you are looking at a person and saying ‘you have done wrong,’” Professor Feldman said. “You’re impeaching their character, you’re impeaching their credibility. That’s an act that you do in the forum where the decision will be made.”

But impeachment is functionally similar to a criminal indictment, and few people would say a grand jury had not indicted someone after voting to do so even if no trial followed. But Professor Feldman said that was a poor analogy.

The Constitution itself is terse. As Professor Turley noted, it gives the House “the sole power of impeachment,” which suggests that the House may also decide when it has impeached the president. The Senate, by contrast, is granted “the sole power to try all impeachments.”

pip08456 22-12-2019 14:28
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36020888)
That's why I said its debatable. You have 2 differing Law professors view.

Mick 22-12-2019 14:51
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36020884)
Looks like - dare I say it - we have likely reached a CF consensus on this topic now.
1. Trump has indeed been impeached.
2. He won't be prosecuted but joins a short list of fellow US Presidents to be successfully impeached - Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon and Andrew Johnson.
As already has been said, Nixon was not Impeached, he resigned on the pressure of possible Impeachment, after a Impeachment Inquiry was launched and after losing all his political allies and support he stepped down and his vice president, Gerald Ford was sworn in as the 38th President of the United States, Ford then controversially pardoned Nixon, preventing any potential indictments being levied against him after leaving office.

Pierre 23-12-2019 20:23
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
If I was a yank I would be rightly annoyed by the amount of political time, effort and money this has and will take, for no benefit whatsoever.

Congress impeach him, the Senate acquit him.

My money is still on him winning the next election, and what will the Democrats do then? Just hold hands and cry for another 4 years.

I don’t see a democrat challenger capable of beating him.

Trump is one of those rare things, someone that followed up on his election promises and the big issue the Democrats have is that ( and I only have anecdotal evidence for this from stories and video clips I’ve seen but I will research it a bit more). Is that Black Americans are benefiting from his tenure. If th democrats lose a % of the Black vote they will struggle. It really does imitate over here with the collapse of the Labour working class vote.

Interesting times

Mr K 23-12-2019 21:37
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36021020)
If I was a yank I would be rightly annoyed by the amount of political time, effort and money this has and will take, for no benefit whatsoever.

Congress impeach him, the Senate acquit him.

My money is still on him winning the next election, and what will the Democrats do then? Just hold hands and cry for another 4 years.

I don’t see a democrat challenger capable of beating him.

Trump is one of those rare things, someone that followed up on his election promises and the big issue the Democrats have is that ( and I only have anecdotal evidence for this from stories and video clips I’ve seen but I will research it a bit more). Is that Black Americans are benefiting from his tenure. If th democrats lose a % of the Black vote they will struggle. It really does imitate over here with the collapse of the Labour working class vote.

Interesting times
Have you been drinking tonight old chap? ;) Where's the wall? Where's the healthcare reform ? Deliver, my backside.
He's not physically or mentally fit enough to serve another year, let alone 4. I expect him not to run to 2020 on 'health grounds' or the fact he won't win.

1andrew1 23-12-2019 21:52
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Mr K is right to highlight Trump's litany of non-delivery.

Mick 23-12-2019 23:05
Re: Impeachment enquiry launched into Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36021031)
Mr K is right to highlight Trump's litany of non-delivery.
What about you and Mr K's non-delivery of my topic request?

Keep this to the impeachment discussion, I don't want to read yours and Mr K's incorrect assertions.


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