Mod tests.
 

'Mod Test' and 'Mod Test 2' have started testing.

Both are configured as HD services. 'Mod Test' points to SID 53797 on TSID 2113 (BT Sport Box Office HD on 11386H); 'Mod Test 2' points to imaginary SID 1234 on TSID 2117 (10890V).

Don't get too excited - these appear to be tests to ensure receivers can cope with a DVB-S2 TP with QPSK, 29.5Mbaud & FEC of 8/9.

Freesat doesn't have any services using this configuration at present.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I'm not going to get excited because I have no idea what you are talking about. :erm:

Re: Mod tests.
 

I don't think Richard has either.:D

Re: Mod tests.
 

:D

Re: Mod tests.
 

I only recognise a few of the technical terms used. If none of the existing FreeSat services use them, do any of the pay TV services?

Or is this such an unusual configuration it might simply be a technology test by someone?

Re: Mod tests.
 

Your guess is as good as Richards.:D

Re: Mod tests.
 

I just had a look at another forum and a thread which had a post which presumably Richard saw as he has posted earlier in that thread. My interpretation of the information located there is that it is a technical test and could ultimately lead to more usable space on a transponder, so more services could fit in the same space.

So something that could result in either more services or reduced costs. Or both.

Re: Mod tests.
 

Your interpretation is spot on :)

This could potentially see more channels coming onto Freesat as capacity costs reduce because more channels can be squeezed onto one transponder without a degradation in picture quality.

I can't understand why they don't do something similar on Freeview, given the chronic lack of space and the fact that there may be no home for channels on the temporary muxes 7 & 8 that are gradually being closed down to reallocate part of the spectrum for 5G mobile.

Re: Mod tests.
 

They do. This is nothing new on either digital satellite or cable or terrestrial. They've been doing this ever since Digital TV was introduced. Just look at the slow creeping up of the number of services on Freeview alone. There's many more services on each multiplex than used to be the maximum. Sure many of these have been lower resolution than the PSB channels, but the space still had to be found, and it happened through continuous improvement of the encoding and related technologies, improvements that still worked within the original specifications so that old legacy equipment still worked.

The main commercial PSB multiplex is a good example. They have kept adding services since Switchover, and at proper SD resolution. In that time I have gradually gained the likes of ITV4, Film4 and Film4+1 on that multiplex alone in a secondary TV room that is serviced by a windowsill aerial from a Relay transmitter.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I agree with what Ed Vaizey said in 2014 about a move to DVB-T2 and MPEG4 (at least for the PSB channels) along with the closure of the PSB SD channels.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...up-summir-2014

This should have been carried out before the clearance of 700 MHz got underway. I think they were afraid of upsetting the electorate as some would need a new STB, but i'd hazard a guess that most people now have a compatible box and the new ones selling today are only about £20.

Channel 4 +1 HD and 4Seven HD (along with other SD channels in DVB-T2) were created (by using the old On/ITV Digital infrastructure) to encourage take up, which seems to have worked.

Re: Mod tests.
 

Wouldn't this have been better in the coming soon thread, as that's were similar things have been posted in the past?

Re: Mod tests.
 

If there was a hint of a specific channel or service, probably. As it stands it's just a technology test and may not come to anything, and if it does it won't necessarily be soon. So for me it's fine in this thread. If the situation develops I'm sure Richard or whoever spots it first will post here or there.

Re: Mod tests.
 

Yup, that's why I didn't post it in the new channels coming to Freesat thread. At this time they are just testing out the more efficient use of capacity techology.

There's no details of any actual channels launching yet as BT Sport Box Office HD is obviously a pay channel, so is unlikely to come to Freesat.

These tests have only been added to the Freesat internal/test sub-bouquets and it appears that there's a new transponder 117 in the Freesat Network Information Table (and not Sky).

Re: Mod tests.
 

There's no appetite to push Freeview to a fully DVB-T2/MPEG4 system.

The average bitrates in MPEG2 are so low anyway the gains will be marginal. Millions of STBs and secondary sets up and down the country made redundant for no real benefit to anyone. It'd take years to transition and ultimately is there anyone clamouring to use what little space will be vacated?

In 2014 it probably was a good idea. In 2019 it is an idea that came too late. Announced tomorrow it'd have an ambitious target at 2022, realistic at 2025. By then? We will all be streaming, of course. ;)

Re: Mod tests.
 

I suppose the real savings in capacity would come from the Vaizey idea of making the PSB channels HD only, but the BBC would have to find an affordable way to roll out their regional channels in HD first.

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The PSBs would just fill the space with +1s/other channels of negligible value for a platform and an audience in terminal decline anyway.

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They wouldn't be able to. The capacity for Freeview (the most popular platform in the UK) is gradually being reduced. Any space saved would be used to offset this and for the channels that can afford it, to keep those displaced by the closure of other muxes.

Re: Mod tests.
 

It’s only the “most popular” platform because it’s the default. The vast majority of people consume television in other ways and this will continue to rise. The need to maintain freeview at the current level diminishes.

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I believe that Freeview is the only platform that's currently growing. Many of those who have pay TV use it in secondary rooms such as a bedroom or the dining room.

The fact that it's the default is neither here nor there.

Re: Mod tests.
 

You can hardly say “it’s neither here nor there” - every home built is by default a new freeview home. While I’m at risk of sounding like Old Boy here the streamers (Amazon and Netflix) are growing rapidly. Now TV is thought to be growing but Sky don’t split the figures.

Re: Mod tests.
 

Some homes cannot get Freeview (which is the primary reason why Freesat exists); of those that can, the number of DTT only households is growing and earlier this year stood at 11.63 million households. There will be many more Freeview sets in use in secondary rooms where the householder has pay TV.

Re: Mod tests.
 

That BARB stat you are quoting doesn't reference streaming. So homes with Netflix or Prime (or both) but no cable, satellite or IPTV service count towards the DTT only total.

Secondary TVs yes, it'll get used but there's no demand to improve the system on this basis with the increasing number of web connected TVs.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I'm surprised they are bundled in with DTT.

I do wonder whether Freeview Play will be modified to add the equivalent of the free part of TVPlayer in the future. To provide the full versions of the channels that only have limited time slots, or provide the HD versions, or simply the channels they don't get as they are in a limited coverage area e.g. a Relay transmitter area.

Re: Mod tests.
 

Streaming services aren't considered platforms in the most recent stats I've seen but I'm sure that will change because the BARB are ultimately more interested in actual consumption.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I don't think that TV Player is doing very well at the moment. Some channels have been removed and some previously free channels have now been moved into the paid premium version.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I know. I'm just wondering if an official version run as part of the Freeview Platform itself, like Play is, might be an idea. It would only carry free services that are already available on the platform, and would just fill in gaps for those that don't get the full selection in their DTT transmitter area. Many places that have poor Freeview selection have good broadband.

Re: Mod tests.
 

It would be a good idea.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I suppose we may not be typical, but Freeview is the one thing we dont have (I dont even have a suitable aerial).
Sky is our main system, we also have Now TV, one daughter has Freesat in her bedroom, the other has Virgin Media.

Re: Mod tests.
 

Since Digital Switchover, the digital signals have been greatly increased. There are lots of people who can now receive Freeview with a set top aerial!

A family member dumped Virgin Media because of the latest price increase (she originally got cable because the analogue signal was so appalling), but found that she could get all the Freeview channels without a rooftop aerial and has Now TV to top it up.

It might be worth checking this out if you ever need/want Freeview.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I'm assuming that these tests were successful, as i've been told that Freesports HD is now using this standard and that S4C HD is in the process of changing over.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I was amazed when I read about these recent switches, I thought all the HD on satellite was on S2 rather than S. Particularly with Freesports as that's so recent.

I think S2 was part of the Generation 1 specs for HD on Freesat and Sky's HD boxes have always met the spec too, so surprising. I can understand it from the point of view of the satellite operators though, S2 boxes are backwards compatible and S can hold MPEG4 streams as I understand it, so given the cost of satellites (to launch) just keep the status quo for as long as is practical.

Re: Mod tests.
 

It’s not really convenient for the satellite operator (in fact S2 lets them squeeze out more bandwidth to sell) but if you are say Channel 5 it might suit you to just throw an HD channel in with your existing SD channels that are on a DVB-S transponder.

Re: Mod tests.
 

That's the impression I got when I investigated earlier. Thanks jfman. :)

Re: Mod tests.
 

By using DVB-S2, (which all HD capable receiving equipment should be able to demodulate*), the total bandwidth of the transponder can be increased by over 10mb, thus fitting another HD service onto the transponder.

In theory, this should be all, but some receivers do seem to have difficulty.

Re: Mod tests.
 

It's probably dish alignment causing the problems rather than the receivers.

Re: Mod tests.
 

A satellite installer has said that some boxes/tuners don't like DVB-S2 at low FEC's eg certain early Sony Panasonic mvision and spiderbox tuners.

The early Manhatten Plaza boxes (like mine) are having problems with this change, which seems to be worse in warmer weather for some reason, and affects recordings made more than watching live TV.

In case anyone here has any problems, his advice was to increase ventilation or add a fan and that the DVB-S2 issue might be helped by slightly altering the frequency and/or symbol rate or by deleting and blind scanning the channels back in.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I'd be more likely to try and return the hardware as not fit for purpose.

Re: Mod tests.
 

Interesting. I've got one of those boxes, wonder if it's affected, I don't use it often enough to know. Any S2 channels particularly susceptible?

Re: Mod tests.
 

How far back since you bought the STB can you go though in order to be able to use this remedy?

---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------

AFAIK, it affects all S2 channels. I can't check with my Freesat box either as it's not working due to tree growth or damaged cabling. I'll soon know which it is in the next few weeks as i'm having some of the trees cut down.

Re: Mod tests.
 

I think consumer rights extend to six years, but ultimately if it doesn't adhere to DVB-S2 spec it was mis-sold.