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ianch99 09-07-2019 19:37
UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Jeremy Hunt is really having a go at Trump re: AmbassadorGate:

https://twitter.com/Jeremy_Hunt/stat...26614479130625

Quote:
1/2 @realDonaldTrump friends speak frankly so I will: these comments are disrespectful and wrong to our Prime Minister and my country. Your diplomats give their private opinions to @SecPompeo and so do ours! You said the UK/US alliance was the greatest in history and I agree...

2/2...but allies need to treat each other with respect as @theresa_may has always done with you. Ambassadors are appointed by the UK government and if I become PM our Ambassador stays.
Good on him ..

Damien 09-07-2019 21:29
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
The ambassador thing is difficult. You can't really have someone whose now publicly known to have said bad things about Trump be the ambassador to the United States but at the same time you don't want to cause ambassadors not to be frank with the foreign office about the country they're in because they're worried about it leaking and getting fired.

It puts the Government in an impossible position. Fire him for doing his job letting the leaker win and causing concern amongst other diplomats. Keep him and damage relations with the President of the United States.

What is easy is that you cannot have diplomatic cables being leaked for political gain. I think there needs to be an investigation from the police into who did it.

Hugh 09-07-2019 22:03
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldn’t have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that won’t upset the countries they are in, they aren’t doing their jobs properly.

It’s the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, that’s "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.

Maggy 09-07-2019 22:51
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Suspicious timing.

1andrew1 10-07-2019 00:06
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002034)
The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldn’t have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that won’t upset the countries they are in, they aren’t doing their jobs properly.

It’s the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, that’s "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.
I see that a foreign state is not being ruled out as the source of the emails, which is a little bit worrying.
Latest escalation is that trade talks with the US are suspended.

Mick 10-07-2019 00:34
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002034)
The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldn’t have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that won’t upset the countries they are in, they aren’t doing their jobs properly.

It’s the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, that’s "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.
Isabel Oakeshott does not act like the de-facto communications office for Arron Banks, at all, that is rubbish.

One small issue with your theory - Farage is a leader another political party, who cannot do both jobs, even if he really wanted to.

ianch99 10-07-2019 12:56
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002034)
The thing is, he sent the emails, but he wouldn’t have written them - they would have been researched, compiled, reviewed, summarised, and written by aides, junior diplomats, and researchers.

The emails would have been the consensus, as seen and agreed, by the staff "on the ground", and presented to, and agreed by, the Ambassador and his senior staff - their job is to present what they see and their interpretation of it.

If diplomatic staff only write reports that won’t upset the countries they are in, they aren’t doing their jobs properly.

It’s the timing of the leak to Isabel Oakeshott, the journalist who acts as the de-facto communications office of Aaron Banks, that’s "interesting".

The leak happens, then Nigel Farage demands Darroch be sacked, and then Leave.EU launches its campaign to make sure Farage replaced him.

Incredible timing.
Let's see if there is a paper trail to follow back to the leaker?

Here's a good reference to how these unsavory character are linked:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_HHSCcW...jpg&name=small

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 ----------

More popcorn needed! Latest blue-on-blue fallout:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1148922180610252803

Quote:
Foreign office minister @AlanDuncanMP says @BorisJohnson has "thrown" Sir Kim Darroch "under the bus" by not supporting him. He says he's "absolutely livid" by the UK ambassador to the US' resignation.
Trump memos row: UK ambassador to US quits 'after Boris Johnson refuses to back him

Damien 10-07-2019 13:31
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Not a surprise. It did make it impossible for him to do his job and the main purpose of keeping him on would be to send a message to other countries that they don't have a veto on our ambassadors and not to reward the leaker with exactly what they wanted.

In reality, though the leak did do its job and whilst countries can't dictate who we send we're obviously not looking to antagonise them. Also although Boris Johnson was unwilling to back the ambassador I don't see how this set of circumstances helps him. Darroch may have even intentionally decided to go in a way that maximises the damage to him rather than let himself be quietly sidelined. It will sour the Foreign Office and our ambassadors against him and maybe even impact the advice he gets.

We've sent a message that if ambassadors do their job and give their honest impression of the leaders and countries they're sent to liaise with we will not have their back should those impressions be leaked.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

As for Oakeshott, she did her job. Someone leaked a newsworthy story to her. They may have had ulterior motives and she may have a bias and angle to pursue but it isn't her job to protect the internal communications of the civil service.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

And the police are now involved: https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/...32074683940864

papa smurf 10-07-2019 13:33
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002070)
Not a surprise. It did make it impossible for him to do his job and the main purpose of keeping him on would be to send a message to other countries that they don't have a veto on our ambassadors and not to reward the leaker with exactly what they wanted.

In reality, though the leak did do its job and whilst countries can't dictate who we send we're obviously not looking to antagonise them. Also although Boris Johnson was unwilling to back the ambassador I don't see how this set of circumstances helps him. Darroch may have even intentionally decided to go in a way that maximises the damage to him rather than let himself be quietly sidelined. It will sour the Foreign Office and our ambassadors against him and maybe even impact the advice he gets.

We've sent a message that if ambassadors do their job and give their honest impression of the leaders and countries they're sent to liaise with we will not have their back should those impressions be leaked.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

As for Oakeshott, she did her job. Someone leaked a newsworthy story to her. They may have had ulterior motives and she may have a bias and angle to pursue but it isn't her job to protect the internal communications of the civil service.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

And the police are now involved: https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/...32074683940864
Whoever is running the foreign office these days has to shoulder the blame for leaked emails etc it all happened on their watch.

Damien 10-07-2019 13:36
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36002075)
Whoever is running the foreign office these days has to shoulder the blame for leaked emails etc it all happened on their watch.
The security will be looked into I guess but the leaker themselves might be held criminally responsible.

papa smurf 10-07-2019 13:43
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002077)
The security will be looked into I guess but the leaker themselves might be held criminally responsible.
Breach of the official secrets act was been talked about on the TV.

Had no idea someones oppinion of Trump was an official secret.

TheDaddy 10-07-2019 14:30
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002070)
Not a surprise. It did make it impossible for him to do his job and the main purpose of keeping him on would be to send a message to other countries that they don't have a veto on our ambassadors and not to reward the leaker with exactly what they wanted.

In reality, though the leak did do its job and whilst countries can't dictate who we send we're obviously not looking to antagonise them. Also although Boris Johnson was unwilling to back the ambassador I don't see how this set of circumstances helps him. Darroch may have even intentionally decided to go in a way that maximises the damage to him rather than let himself be quietly sidelined. It will sour the Foreign Office and our ambassadors against him and maybe even impact the advice he gets.

We've sent a message that if ambassadors do their job and give their honest impression of the leaders and countries they're sent to liaise with we will not have their back should those impressions be leaked.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

As for Oakeshott, she did her job. Someone leaked a newsworthy story to her. They may have had ulterior motives and she may have a bias and angle to pursue but it isn't her job to protect the internal communications of the civil service.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

And the police are now involved: https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/...32074683940864
I'd have liked to have seen the ambassador made a lord, perfect excuse for him to have to come home and it would've sent a message out to boot.

As for Oakeshott, she's got a habit of this, wasn't it her that leaned on Chris Humes ex wife and got them both jailed,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002077)
The security will be looked into I guess but the leaker themselves might be held criminally responsible.
Lets hope so

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36002078)
Breach of the official secrets act was been talked about on the TV.

Had no idea someones oppinion of Trump was an official secret.
It's not a secret bozo let the cat out of the bag when he said

Quote:
clearly out of his mind", "stupefyingly ignorant", "unfit to be President" and "playing the game of terrorists".
And

Quote:
I would invite him to come and see the while of London and take him round the city.

"Except I wouldn't want to expose Londoners to any unnecessary risk of meeting Donald Trump."

Hugh 10-07-2019 17:23
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36002078)
Breach of the official secrets act was been talked about on the TV.

Had no idea someones oppinion of Trump was an official secret.
The emails which were leaked were classified - if a civil servant leaked them, both the leaker and the recipient are in breach of Section 5* of the Official Secrets Act (in view of Section 3**)...

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36002075)
Whoever is running the foreign office these days has to shoulder the blame for leaked emails etc it all happened on their watch.
Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary when the emails were sent - I wouldn't be surprised if they had been stored away since then for an "opportune moment"...

**Section 3 - International relations
Section 3(1)(a) creates an offence of disclosing information, documents or other articles relating to international relations. This includes confidential information, documents or other article from a State other than the United Kingdom or an international organisation. This section applies only to crown servants and government contractors.

*Section 5 - Information resulting from unauthorised disclosures or entrusted in confidence
This section relates to further disclosure of information, documents or other articles protected from disclosure by the preceding sections of the Act. It allows, for example, the prosecution of newspapers or journalists who publish secret information leaked to them by a crown servant in contravention of section 3. This section applies to everyone.

Sephiroth 10-07-2019 20:48
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002097)
The emails which were leaked were classified - if a civil servant leaked them, both the leaker and the recipient are in breach of Section 5* of the Official Secrets Act (in view of Section 3**)...

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------



Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary when the emails were sent - I wouldn't be surprised if they had been stored away since then for an "opportune moment"...

**Section 3 - International relations
Section 3(1)(a) creates an offence of disclosing information, documents or other articles relating to international relations. This includes confidential information, documents or other article from a State other than the United Kingdom or an international organisation. This section applies only to crown servants and government contractors.

*Section 5 - Information resulting from unauthorised disclosures or entrusted in confidence
This section relates to further disclosure of information, documents or other articles protected from disclosure by the preceding sections of the Act. It allows, for example, the prosecution of newspapers or journalists who publish secret information leaked to them by a crown servant in contravention of section 3. This section applies to everyone.
Is there going to be a juicy, exquisite twist to this?

Damien 10-07-2019 21:27
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Boris Johnson isn't going to leak diplomatic cables. It won't be him, anyone doing it at his request or him engineering it somehow.

It's likely to be some idiot who didn't quite understand the seriousness of what they were doing.

1andrew1 10-07-2019 21:59
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002111)
Boris Johnson isn't going to leak diplomatic cables. It won't be him, anyone doing it at his request or him engineering it somehow.

It's likely to be some idiot who didn't quite understand the seriousness of what they were doing.
I'm sure Boris didn't leak the papers*, but Darroch's resignation is being blamed on Boris not supporting him.

* https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...etary-11757269

Hugh 10-07-2019 22:33
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
John Redwood
@johnredwood

The UK Ambassador to the USA used undiplomatic language and made wrong judgements in his memo. The Trump administration promised more jobs, big tax cuts and higher wages and has delivered all three. The May government promised to leave the EU on 29 March and failed. Who is inept?

6:22 am · 9 Jul 2019 · Twitter Web App
2.6K Retweets
6.8K Likes

Damien 10-07-2019 22:44
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
These people are so cretinous. They know full well the memo was never intended for public eyes. He is entitled to view Trump as successful and May as not but what's that got to do with how ambassadors do their job?

Maggy 10-07-2019 22:52
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002111)
Boris Johnson isn't going to leak diplomatic cables. It won't be him, anyone doing it at his request or him engineering it somehow.

It's likely to be some idiot who didn't quite understand the seriousness of what they were doing.
I just hope they find and prosecute. I'm sick of these constant leaks that are more likely to injure our standing than enhance them. At least Gate was actually doing what the job required unlike a lot of our cabinet members who have failed spectacularly at the positions they have been assigned.

1andrew1 10-07-2019 23:30
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002117)
These people are so cretinous. They know full well the memo was never intended for public eyes. He is entitled to view Trump as successful and May as not but what's that got to do with how ambassadors do their job?
Desperate stuff. Redwood's not the man he used to be. He needs to step down and give a more able MP the chance.

Chris 11-07-2019 00:21
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Posts about the US ambassador have been split into their own thread, as it is a separate story to the Tory leadership contest.

Pierre 11-07-2019 15:53
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002120)
Desperate stuff. Redwood's not the man he used to be. He needs to step down and give a more able MP the chance.
Yet what he says is accurate.

It is also clear that whoever leaked this was a "Remainer" civil servant doing their best to sour our relationship with the USA pre- Brexit. So they can all point to the possibility of us not getting a trade with them in a timely manner.

The ambassador is a pawn caught up in this.

His resignation and the situation he found himself are nothing to do with Johnson.

Damien 11-07-2019 16:08
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36002171)
It is also clear that whoever leaked this was a "Remainer" civil servant doing their best to sour our relationship with the USA pre- Brexit. So they can all point to the possibility of us not getting a trade with them in a timely manner.
.
The speculation is that it's a Brexiter, not a Remainer, because of who they leaked it too and because they think Johnson will appoint a more friendly to Brexit-friendly civil servant to the post. There is a reason the Brexit Party are condemning the ambassador and Remainer parties are condemning the leak.

But why is he correct? The ambassador shouldn't be fired for giving his honest opinion in a private diplomatic communication to his own government. It's his job.

In the end, reality meant he had to go which is why the leaker themselves is to blame.

pip08456 11-07-2019 16:21
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002174)
The speculation is that it's a Brexiter, not a Remainer, because of who they leaked it too and because they think Johnson will appoint a more friendly to Brexit-friendly civil servant to the post. There is a reason the Brexit Party are condemning the ambassador and Remainer parties are condemning the leak.

But why is he correct? The ambassador shouldn't be fired for giving his honest opinion in a private diplomatic communication to his own government. It's his job.

In the end, reality meant he had to go which is why the leaker themselves is to blame.
What a load of rubbish!

He didn't get sacked, he resigned as his position became untenable due to the leak.

As regards the leaker, I think when found he/she should face the full extent of the law. It was not a "Whistleblower" situation and has harmed UK international relations.

Hugh 11-07-2019 16:38
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002175)
What a load of rubbish!

He didn't get sacked, he resigned as his position became untenable due to the leak.

As regards the leaker, I think when found he/she should face the full extent of the law. It was not a "Whistleblower" situation and has harmed UK international relations.
Someone sets fire to a house, so the occupant of the house has to leave the house because his situation is untenable - it's not the occupant's fault they had to leave the house...

pip08456 11-07-2019 16:58
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002178)
Someone sets fire to a house, so the occupant of the house has to leave the house because his situation is untenable - it's not the occupant's fault they had to leave the house...
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

Hugh 11-07-2019 17:07
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002175)
What a load of rubbish!

He didn't get sacked, he resigned as his position became untenable due to the leak.

As regards the leaker, I think when found he/she should face the full extent of the law. It was not a "Whistleblower" situation and has harmed UK international relations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002178)
Someone sets fire to a house, so the occupant of the house has to leave the house because his situation is untenable - it's not the occupant's fault they had to leave the house...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002179)
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

Pierre 11-07-2019 17:26
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002174)
The speculation is that it's a Brexiter, not a Remainer, because of who they leaked it too and because they think Johnson will appoint a more friendly to Brexit-friendly civil servant to the post. There is a reason the Brexit Party are condemning the ambassador and Remainer parties are condemning the leak.

But why is he correct? The ambassador shouldn't be fired for giving his honest opinion in a private diplomatic communication to his own government. It's his job.

In the end, reality meant he had to go which is why the leaker themselves is to blame.
He didn’t ask for the ambassador to be fired. He was correct in the Ambassador called the Trump administration inept, when they are actually delivering on their election promised, mostly. Yet it is our government that is inept.

pip08456 11-07-2019 17:37
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Back in May there was a fire in one of the flats in which I reside. As my situation was untenable I had to leave. 4 days later I was able to return to my flat.

Just like your post absolutely nothing to do with this thread. The above by the way is truthful.

1andrew1 11-07-2019 19:05
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36002171)
Yet what he says is accurate.

It is also clear that whoever leaked this was a "Remainer" civil servant doing their best to sour our relationship with the USA pre- Brexit. So they can all point to the possibility of us not getting a trade with them in a timely manner.

The ambassador is a pawn caught up in this.

His resignation and the situation he found himself are nothing to do with Johnson.
You can count Remainer civil servants on the fingers of one hand. Most civil servants I've spoken to are for it as it provides them with more career opportunities.
The language used was the down-to-earth language used for internal briefings, not a press release.

ianch99 11-07-2019 19:13
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002178)
Someone sets fire to a house, so the occupant of the house has to leave the house because his situation is untenable - it's not the occupant's fault they had to leave the house...
If there was a leak, it is unlikely the house would catch fire :)

Mr K 11-07-2019 19:16
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36002190)
If there was a leak, it is unlikely the house would catch fire :)
Have I missed something? Have they set fire to the ambassador's house now ? Bleeding Americans, they can't take constructive criticism.;)

ianch99 11-07-2019 19:23
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002187)
You can count Remainer civil servants on the fingers of one hand. Most civil servants I've spoken to are for it as it provides them with more career opportunities.
The language used was the down-to-earth language used for internal briefings, not a press release.
Regarding the alleged Remainer civil servants, Farage has made a sinister but not unsurprising move on the Civil Service and the Armed Forces:

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...tary-1-6154703

Quote:
Nigel Farage has called for the government to remove opponents of Brexit from the civil service, to claims it is 'fascism by the backdoor'.

He appears to want those opposed to Brexit to be removed from the civil service and military.

Asked on his radio programme by a caller about his remarks in which he said it was "crazy" to have a "Remainer" in the post of US ambassador, a man giving his name as Željko said: "Does it mean that, if we are Brexiting, that every civil servant, every ambassador, even the head of the army or head of the navy? Would they have to be replaced if they are Remainers? Is that democracy, Nigel?"

Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage said: "Absolutely."

He said: "The job of the civil service is to do what the elected government of the day tells them to do, and I know this government doesn't look like a Brexit government very often, but the fact of the matter is they were elected in 2017, on a manifesto to deliver Brexit and if civil servants are seen to be in obstruction to that, they should either change their ways or be removed."

A stunned caller asked: "Is that democracy?"

Farage admitted that perhaps the military was a step too far, because "we very rarely hear or know what their political opinions are" but said he did not agree with pro-EU diplomats, even though as part of their work they have to remain impartial.

Social media users, including politicians, turned to Twitter to express their anger.

Nicola Sturgeon wrote: "Who could Farage be thinking of? The last thing that should happen is the politicisation of the civil service and the replacement of honourable diplomats with charlatans like this guy."

Anthony Gardner said: "Farage said that anyone in UK civil service or military who doesn't believe in Brexit should be removed. My jaw dropped. This is outrageous. It is fascistic to apply a single issue to determine 'loyalty' as if we were in a war of religion. Shame on him."

Another said: "Fascism by the back door in Britain has truly arrived. Perhaps it was inevitable. But what matters right now, is what are we all going to do about it?"
Welcome to Farage's vision of the New England ..

1andrew1 11-07-2019 20:48
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
This aptly sums up the current situation:
Quote:
Boris Johnson, a serial fantasist at best, is very likely to become prime minister. The leader of the opposition is Jeremy Corbyn, a man whose lifetime passion has been leftwing, anti-American politics. The country’s dominant force is Nigel Farage — a talented demagogue consumed by dislike of the EU. This is not a cast of leading characters for a country with a stable and mature democracy.
https://www.ft.com/content/de6e2b14-...c-ad1c6ab5efd1

Sephiroth 11-07-2019 21:36
Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36002182)
He didn’t ask for the ambassador to be fired. He was correct in the Ambassador called the Trump administration inept, when they are actually delivering on their election promised, mostly. Yet it is our government that is inept.
Good one!

---------- Post added at 21:36 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002205)
This aptly sums up the current situation:

https://www.ft.com/content/de6e2b14-...c-ad1c6ab5efd1
Yet the country moves along, gets on with stuff almost oblivious of the fools in Parliament & government - who have become irrelevant.

Chris 12-07-2019 17:36
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Many posts removed.

Folks, this is not the Brexit thread by proxy and it is not the Tory leadership thread which you will find open fo business here:https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33707714

Mobes 12-07-2019 20:59
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
You cant talk about this subject without bringing in the Tory Leadership and Brexit!

Chris 12-07-2019 22:53
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Relevant comments are fine. I’m confident we’re all intelligent enough to know when a comment is relevant to this topic and when it’s not.

1andrew1 12-07-2019 23:06
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Pleased to hear that the Police are investigating the leak.

Suspect they may be interested in today's Telegraph article whose authors claim to be in touch with someone close to the leaker(s) and quoting them as threatening other civil servants “This leak is a warning to all those other ambassadors who might be remoaners that whatever your personal views with Brexit don’t deliberately put a spanner in the works or you will get the chip as well”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ce-close-mole/

ianch99 13-07-2019 18:14
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002314)
Pleased to hear that the Police are investigating the leak.

Suspect they may be interested in today's Telegraph article whose authors claim to be in touch with someone close to the leaker(s) and quoting them as threatening other civil servants “This leak is a warning to all those other ambassadors who might be remoaners that whatever your personal views with Brexit don’t deliberately put a spanner in the works or you will get the chip as well”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ce-close-mole/
You know if the Police manage to follow the trail and expose the Leaker then this could become incendiary. Imagine if the breadcrumbs lead back to a Leave organisation e.g. the Brexit Party, leave.eu, etc. :)

*orders more popcorn* ...

Mobes 13-07-2019 19:47
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
The leak in itself isn’t the issue! Journalists have every right to publish in the national interest! What’s matters is the inability for Johnson to publicly back the ambassador! If he had he would still have his job! Now whats happened is the UK looks subservient to the piece of filth in The White House and Johnson looks like Trumps lackey (if we didn’t know that already)!

pip08456 13-07-2019 19:56
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002424)
The leak in itself isn’t the issue! Journalists have every right to publish in the national interest! What’s matters is the inability for Johnson to publicly back the ambassador! If he had he would still have his job! Now whats happened is the UK looks subservient to the piece of filth in The White House and Johnson looks like Trumps lackey (if we didn’t know that already)!
If the leak was in the public interest there would be no problem.

Mobes 13-07-2019 20:00
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
That doesn’t make sense as the only issue is the fact he had to resign! He wouldn’t had to do so if Johnson had backed him over Trump!

pip08456 13-07-2019 20:22
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002430)
That doesn’t make sense as the only issue is the fact he had to resign! He wouldn’t had to do so if Johnson had backed him over Trump!
What was the public interest in a private foreign office memo then?

Mobes 13-07-2019 20:29
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
The public interest was to hear what someone close to the US administration thought about Trump in an unfiltered way! Trump would have you believe the administration is a well oiled machine! This shows ( if we didn’t know it already) that it isn’t! Throwing light into shade is in the public interest!

pip08456 13-07-2019 22:16
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002438)
The public interest was to hear what someone close to the US administration thought about Trump in an unfiltered way! Trump would have you believe the administration is a well oiled machine! This shows ( if we didn’t know it already) that it isn’t! Throwing light into shade is in the public interest!
If you are happy with the public interest being served rather than the national interest then fair enough, let's just scrap the official secrets act and no longer have the foreign office receive truthful report from ambassadors to the countries we deal with.

Mobes 13-07-2019 22:32
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
I didnt say i was more happy with it. I merely pointed out that it was in the 'public interest but this argument is just gas lighting. The real issue is Johnson not backing him and Trump getting his way.

1andrew1 13-07-2019 22:47
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002428)
If the leak was in the public interest there would be no problem.
Mobes is right. If BoJo had been supportive of the ambassador on the ITV debate, he would probably have remained in place.

Pierre 13-07-2019 23:04
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002438)
The public interest was to hear what someone close to the US administration thought about Trump in an unfiltered way! Trump would have you believe the administration is a well oiled machine! This shows ( if we didn’t know it already) that it isn’t! Throwing light into shade is in the public interest!
It’s not in the public, or nations, interest if it damages relations with our closest and most powerful ally.

pip08456 13-07-2019 23:05
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002462)
Mobes is right. If BoJo had been supportive of the ambassador on the ITV debate, he would probably have remained in place.
I doubt it very much. Following the leak he became person non grata at the White House.

It was due to the leak his position became untenable and not just with the White House.

Julian 13-07-2019 23:14
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002462)
Mobes is right. If BoJo had been supportive of the ambassador on the ITV debate, he would probably have remained in place.
Until the end of the year when he was leaving anyway? ;)

ianch99 13-07-2019 23:26
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002461)
I didnt say i was more happy with it. I merely pointed out that it was in the 'public interest but this argument is just gas lighting. The real issue is Johnson not backing him and Trump getting his way.
This is the real point here. Trump will think he now has the upper hand: he said to the UK "jump", and we said "how high?" The UK is now the vassal state in this relationship .. enjoy .. :)

Chlorinated chicken anyone?

Mobes 13-07-2019 23:29
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36002468)
Until the end of the year when he was leaving anyway? ;)
Way to go missing the point lol

Julian 13-07-2019 23:35
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002474)
Way to go missing the point lol
Why did he send an email containing those flippant opinions?

Who did he send it to?

For someone supposedly a top ambassador he perhaps should have kept his facebook thoughts to himself. ;)

Having said that don't rule out him having leaked it himself........

Mobes 13-07-2019 23:38
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
A) the point of those confidential memos is to give our Govt unfiltered views about the relative countries government . The US ambassador would send similar memos.
B) He was hacked and or leaked.
C) Try and keep up.

pip08456 13-07-2019 23:47
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002478)
A) the point of those confidential memos is to give our Govt unfiltered views about the relative countries government . The US ambassador would send similar memos.
B) He was hacked and or leaked.
C) Try and keep up.
Surely you mean the Public Interest memos?

Mobes 13-07-2019 23:55
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Things can be both confidential AND in the public interest...nice try though :)

denphone 14-07-2019 05:57
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
The suspect behind the leak of confidential memos from Britain’s Washington ambassador has been identified, the Sunday Times newspaper has reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...ntified-report

Quote:
“They think they know who did the leaking,” an unnamed government source told the paper. “It’s now a case of building a case that will stand up in court. It was someone with access to historical files. They went in and grabbed a range of material. It was quite crude.”

Angua 14-07-2019 07:46
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36002494)
The suspect behind the leak of confidential memos from Britain’s Washington ambassador has been identified, the Sunday Times newspaper has reported.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...ntified-report
For those who may not be aware of the latest Brexit couple.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/950231...-leak-scandal/

denphone 14-07-2019 08:15
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 36002495)
For those who may not be aware of the latest Brexit couple.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/950231...-leak-scandal/
The link does not work Angua.

Maggy 14-07-2019 08:32
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48978334

Quote:
One of the journalists behind the Mail on Sunday's story, Isabel Oakeshott, is the subject of the front page of The Sunday Times - which covers the police inquiry into the leaks.

It says that she is in a relationship with Richard Tice - the MEP who is chairman of Nigel Farage's Brexit Party and it claims he has become embroiled in the leak scandal.

The article says police believe that a pro-Brexit civil servant took the Darroch material to try to undermine officials who do not support leaving the EU.

It also quotes an unnamed diplomat who suggests there are a lot of Brexit Party fingerprints on the disclosures. But the paper notes that both Ms Oakeshott and Mr Tice have denied that he played any role in the leak or the handling of the documents.

OLD BOY 14-07-2019 09:30
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002478)
A) the point of those confidential memos is to give our Govt unfiltered views about the relative countries government . The US ambassador would send similar memos.
B) He was hacked and or leaked.
C) Try and keep up.
I think it is obvious that the ambassador could have used much more diplomatic language than this. The memo was well over the top and could have been expressed much more professionally than this, making the point but without causing such offence if it got into the wrong hands, as these communications often do.

Mobes 14-07-2019 09:41
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002508)
I think it is obvious that the ambassador could have used much more diplomatic language than this. The memo was well over the top and could have been expressed much more professionally than this, making the point but without causing such offence if it got into the wrong hands, as these communications often do.
You’re an apologist (and not just about this)! The very point is that they are uncensored, unfiltered non PC if you want ( I know you like that ridiculous term).

Carth 14-07-2019 09:46
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002508)
I think it is obvious that the ambassador could have used much more diplomatic language than this. The memo was well over the top and could have been expressed much more professionally than this, making the point but without causing such offence if it got into the wrong hands, as these communications often do.

I rather think the choice of wording could have been deliberate, especially if it was aimed at the general public instead of other 'officials' who are well versed with understanding the convoluted and hidden meanings in 'political speak'.
The general public now know the appraisal of Trump and his administration given by a 'very experienced and highly regarded' member of the UK Government.

Regarding the section highlighted in bold, it makes you wonder just how secure our security is when you look back on other instances of 'leaks' to the media . . . not to mention briefcases left on taxi seats etc etc

Mr K 14-07-2019 10:05
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 36002499)
Interesting. Those on the right clamouring for an investigation/prosecutions may find it backfiring on their 'own side'.

1andrew1 14-07-2019 10:17
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002508)
I think it is obvious that the ambassador could have used much more diplomatic language than this. The memo was well over the top and could have been expressed much more professionally than this, making the point but without causing such offence if it got into the wrong hands, as these communications often do.
The issue with producing important insights for people with little time is that you tell it as it is so there is no chance of misunderstanding.
These communications do not often fall into the wrong pair of hands, so there has been no need to apply a snowflake filter to them.

Carth 14-07-2019 10:19
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36002512)
Interesting. Those on the right clamouring for an investigation/prosecutions may find it backfiring on their 'own side'.
I'm pretty sure the Russians did it . . . again :D

Damien 14-07-2019 10:33
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002508)
I think it is obvious that the ambassador could have used much more diplomatic language than this. The memo was well over the top and could have been expressed much more professionally than this, making the point but without causing such offence if it got into the wrong hands, as these communications often do.
There communications usually don't as they're covered by the official secrets act and are circulated amongst a small amount of staff. Hence why if they have found the person then they're going to see the inside of a prison cell, not typical of a leaker.

Besides the point of these private communications is that diplomats can speak freely. If they had to be minded that the press might read them then their feedback would change.

1andrew1 14-07-2019 10:36
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36002516)
I'm pretty sure the Russians did it . . . again :D
Perhaps Ian's post #7 is worth revisiting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36002067)
Let's see if there is a paper trail to follow back to the leaker?
Here's a good reference to how these unsavoury characters are linked:
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

OLD BOY 15-07-2019 06:51
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36002520)
There communications usually don't as they're covered by the official secrets act and are circulated amongst a small amount of staff. Hence why if they have found the person then they're going to see the inside of a prison cell, not typical of a leaker.

Besides the point of these private communications is that diplomats can speak freely. If they had to be minded that the press might read them then their feedback would change.
...And yet it did fall into the wrong hands.

I'm sorry, but when being critical of anything at work, I always made damned sure of my facts and then penned very careful language to explain the situation.

This was a very overt, and for an ambassador, very undiplomatic outburst in respect of the President of the world's largest political power and our close ally. Had he used less hysterical language, he could have got the message across without causing such a reaction from The Donald.

1andrew1 15-07-2019 07:41
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002671)
...And yet it did fall into the wrong hands.

I'm sorry, but when being critical of anything at work, I always made damned sure of my facts and then penned very careful language to explain the situation.

This was a very overt, and for an ambassador, very undiplomatic outburst in respect of the President of the world's largest political power and our close ally. Had he used less hysterical language, he could have got the message across without causing such a reaction from The Donald.
Old Boy, you need to bring along more of that admirable approach when posting here.
1. It was not overt, it was highly confidential.
2. The langusge used was diplomatic ie very clear for busy people.
3. It wasn't an outburst, it was a series of reports compiled by the ambassador's team.
4. The Don is thin skinned so would likely be offended by anything less than praise.

OLD BOY 15-07-2019 07:46
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002676)
Old Boy, you need to bring along more of that admirable approach when posting here.
1. It was not overt, it was highly confidential.
2. The langusge used was diplomatic ie very clear for busy people.
3. It wasn't an outburst, it was a series of reports compiled by the ambassador's team.
4. The Don is thin skinned so would likely be offended by anything less than praise.
It was overt language, Andrew, and one should have expected better. It was most certainly an outburst, whoever wrote it.

Hugh 15-07-2019 07:49
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Difference being, nothing you wrote was classified intelligence at a nation state level.

The Ambassador’s briefings to his Government need to be clear, not need deciphering to try and guess at what he means.

Anyway, we have only seen excerpts of the emails, not the full text - colour me surprised if the DM has printed the bits that sound inflammatory, but in context sound reasonable.

denphone 15-07-2019 07:52
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002679)
It was overt language, Andrew, and one should have expected better. It was most certainly an outburst, whoever wrote it.
It was frank and blunt yes but it was certainly not a outburst.

Hugh 15-07-2019 07:54
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
What about Trump’s comments about Theresa May - were they "overt"?

denphone 15-07-2019 08:11
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
He said it as it is which was frank , blunt and to the point even though l am no fan of him personally.

OLD BOY 15-07-2019 08:16
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002684)
What about Trump’s comments about Theresa May - were they "overt"?
I don’t excuse Trump for anything but he’s not an ambassador!

---------- Post added at 08:16 ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36002687)
He said it as it is which was frank , blunt and to the point even though l am no fan of him personally.
Correct, hence the criticism.

denphone 15-07-2019 08:21
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002688)
I don’t excuse Trump for anything but he’s not an ambassador!
Ambassadors are told to be frank and blunt as that is a part of their job.

Maggy 15-07-2019 08:27
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002681)
Difference being, nothing you wrote was classified intelligence at a nation state level.

The Ambassador’s briefings to his Government need to be clear, not need deciphering to try and guess at what he means.

Anyway, we have only seen excerpts of the emails, not the full text - colour me surprised if the DM has printed the bits that sound inflammatory, but in context sound reasonable.
:tu:

---------- Post added at 08:27 ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 ----------

What any government seeks from it's ambassadors is an honest and frank appraisal of a situation which is why they are private and NOT for public consumption. If ambassadors start editing their correspondence to the government then they become useless as a source of information.

nomadking 15-07-2019 09:14
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36002676)
Old Boy, you need to bring along more of that admirable approach when posting here.
1. It was not overt, it was highly confidential.
2. The langusge used was diplomatic ie very clear for busy people.
3. It wasn't an outburst, it was a series of reports compiled by the ambassador's team.
4. The Don is thin skinned so would likely be offended by anything less than praise.
So how many FACTS were there, as opposed to unsubstantiated opinions? Eg How would the ambassador know what was or wasn't going on in Iran?

Maggy 15-07-2019 10:44
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36002701)
So how many FACTS were there, as opposed to unsubstantiated opinions? Eg How would the ambassador know what was or wasn't going on in Iran?
Rather more than you I suspect because he has access to people that you don't.;)

Chris 15-07-2019 11:00
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Being the most senior posting in the entire diplomatic service, the British ambassador to the USA has normally got a contact book with telephone numbers spanning the entire world. He has formal and informal relationships of every kind, developed over a career spanning decades. He also has a senior MI6 station chief in Washington on speed dial. To even attempt to use a little Internet forum like this to argue that someone in his position is in the business of peddling unsubstantiated opinions is absurd.

TheDaddy 15-07-2019 11:19
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002684)
What about Trump’s comments about Theresa May - were they "overt"?
Funny isn't it how all those people demanding we respect the office of president have gone quiet since our own PM was attacked

Like I said the other day rather than accept his resignation I'd have preferred him to have been recalled and made a Lord

Mick 15-07-2019 11:27
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36002722)
Funny isn't it how all those people demanding we respect the office of president have gone quiet since our own PM was attacked

Like I said the other day rather than accept his resignation I'd have preferred him to have been recalled and made a Lord
By crikey, Trump referred to her as "foolish", she has been - nothing to defend her with here and you can respect the office of PM while still criticising her performance. :rolleyes:

Damien 15-07-2019 11:35
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36002722)
Funny isn't it how all those people demanding we respect the office of president have gone quiet since our own PM was attacked

Like I said the other day rather than accept his resignation I'd have preferred him to have been recalled and made a Lord
To be fair we don't really have a culture of respecting the office of the PM do we? We don't stand for the PM. There is no ceremony around the position itself.

Our equivalent would be the Queen we do have a culture of respecting that for the same reason as respecting the Office of the President - that they're the Head of State.

It's generally bad form for a world leader to criticise another when they're allies though.

nomadking 15-07-2019 12:10
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 36002714)
Rather more than you I suspect because he has access to people that you don't.;)
He would only have access to info on a need-to-know basis. He wouldn't need to know about Iran. Any discussions on those matters would be done direct, not via the embassy.

Did he mention that there was info he was privy to that influenced his opinions? Or was he simply going along with the anti-Trump rhetoric?
Link
Quote:
Iran has breached the limit on its stockpile of low-enriched uranium set under a 2015 nuclear deal with world powers, a watchdog has confirmed.
If all they needed for reasonable use was within the limits of the deal, why the need to increase it?
Quote:
A stockpile of 1,050kg, however, could be further enriched later into enough material to build one bomb, according to the Arms Control Association.
...
Iran insists its nuclear programme is peaceful, but experts say 20% enriched uranium is most of the way to weapons-grade uranium. That is because going from uranium's natural state of 0.7% concentration of U-235 to 20% takes approximately 90% of the total effort required to get to weapons-grade.
The Arak reactor is also a proliferation risk because if it is not redesigned it will produce spent fuel containing plutonium, which could be used for a nuclear bomb.
Link
Quote:
Before July 2015, Iran had a large stockpile of enriched uranium and almost 20,000 centrifuges, enough to create eight to 10 bombs, according to the Obama administration.
US experts estimated then that if Iran had decided to rush to make a bomb, it would take two to three months until it had enough 90%-enriched uranium to build a nuclear weapon - the so-called "break-out time".

pip08456 15-07-2019 14:20
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36002731)
He would only have access to info on a need-to-know basis. He wouldn't need to know about Iran. Any discussions on those matters would be done direct, not via the embassy.

Did he mention that there was info he was privy to that influenced his opinions? Or was he simply going along with the anti-Trump rhetoric?
Link
If all they needed for reasonable use was within the limits of the deal, why the need to increase it?
Link
Not sure you're correct there. If he knew nothing about Iran how could he advise on the US stance and policy going forward.

ianch99 15-07-2019 14:39
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36002718)
Being the most senior posting in the entire diplomatic service, the British ambassador to the USA has normally got a contact book with telephone numbers spanning the entire world. He has formal and informal relationships of every kind, developed over a career spanning decades. He also has a senior MI6 station chief in Washington on speed dial. To even attempt to use a little Internet forum like this to argue that someone in his position is in the business of peddling unsubstantiated opinions is absurd.
Chris is so right here. Anyone who thinks the US ambassador should not be frank and candid with his/her Executive is living in cloud cuckoo land.

That is it. End Of. Any objections to what he said are just down to the political prejudices of the author.

nomadking 15-07-2019 15:09
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002744)
Not sure you're correct there. If he knew nothing about Iran how could he advise on the US stance and policy going forward.
That just it, he couldn't know anything. Which is why his comments are biased opinion, just as others at the time said exactly the same sort of thing. Those others certainly didn't know anything. It would not have been pertinent to the role of Ambassador to know anything of that nature. Let's face it, if Iran was previously determined to get weapon grade Uranium, that determination wouldn't suddenly stop.



If he had said something like "I'm puzzled by the President's decision, considering what we know for certain.", that would have been a different matter.

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36002747)
Chris is so right here. Anyone who thinks the US ambassador should not be frank and candid with his/her Executive is living in cloud cuckoo land.

That is it. End Of. Any objections to what he said are just down to the political prejudices of the author.
So what inside FACTS did he know and express?

ianch99 15-07-2019 15:20
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36002755)
That just it, he couldn't know anything. Which is why his comments are biased opinion, just as others at the time said exactly the same sort of thing. Those others certainly didn't know anything. It would not have been pertinent to the role of Ambassador to know anything of that nature. Let's face it, if Iran was previously determined to get weapon grade Uranium, that determination wouldn't suddenly stop.



If he had said something like "I'm puzzled by the President's decision, considering what we know for certain.", that would have been a different matter.

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

So what inside FACTS did he know and express?
FACTS? What acronym is this? Found this, may help :

https://www.acronymfinder.com/FACTS.html

I quite like:

Quote:
FACTS: Foreign Asset Control Tracking System
seems appropriate ..

Seriously, you think you are able to objectively question that he does and does not know?

papa smurf 15-07-2019 15:22
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36002755)
That just it, he couldn't know anything. Which is why his comments are biased opinion, just as others at the time said exactly the same sort of thing. Those others certainly didn't know anything. It would not have been pertinent to the role of Ambassador to know anything of that nature. Let's face it, if Iran was previously determined to get weapon grade Uranium, that determination wouldn't suddenly stop.



If he had said something like "I'm puzzled by the President's decision, considering what we know for certain.", that would have been a different matter.

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

So what inside FACTS did he know and express?
Can't discuss it he's already declared "end of";)

ianch99 15-07-2019 15:26
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36002760)
Can't discuss it he's already declared "end of";)
Good. Thank you for complying with the EU directive :)

Maggy 15-07-2019 15:41
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002744)
Not sure you're correct there. If he knew nothing about Iran how could he advise on the US stance and policy going forward.
:tu:

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36002747)
Chris is so right here. Anyone who thinks the US ambassador should not be frank and candid with his/her Executive is living in cloud cuckoo land.

That is it. End Of. Any objections to what he said are just down to the political prejudices of the author.
:tu:

nomadking 15-07-2019 15:59
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36002759)
FACTS? What acronym is this? Found this, may help :

https://www.acronymfinder.com/FACTS.html

I quite like:



seems appropriate ..

Seriously, you think you are able to objectively question that he does and does not know?
Do you know what he does or doesn't know? Of course not, therefore you cannot criticise me. At least my comments are based upon a reasonable conclusion. There would be absolutely no need for him to know anything on the matter. Any discussions would be at a much higher level than an ambassador.

Again, is there ANY reference in his comments to knowing or not knowing something specific in relation to the matter on which he based his opinion.

In the past, examiners said that Israel didn't have nuclear programme, when it was right under their feet, underground on a site they visited.

Hugh 15-07-2019 17:15
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36002775)
Do you know what he does or doesn't know? Of course not, therefore you cannot criticise me. At least my comments are based upon a reasonable conclusion. There would be absolutely no need for him to know anything on the matter. Any discussions would be at a much higher level than an ambassador.

Again, is there ANY reference in his comments to knowing or not knowing something specific in relation to the matter on which he based his opinion.

In the past, examiners said that Israel didn't have nuclear programme, when it was right under their feet, underground on a site they visited.
You do realise that an ambassador is a country's highest resident representative, don't you?

They are privy to all relevant information that pertains to the relationship between the two countries (and any other countries that may impact/affect that relationship), including Top Secret, UK Eyes Only, and Secret Codeword information, as well as having access to information from our "dark side" sources (GCHQ, the MIs, etc.).

He would have been briefed on the Iran situation, as it could affect US/UK relations.

1andrew1 16-07-2019 05:36
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
Reading some of the posts on this thread, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Thank you Chris and Hugh for adding a dose of reality to it.

Maggy 16-07-2019 08:27
Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 
I haven't used this little chap for some time..but it fits.

:dig:


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