Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

In 2015/16 the number of households without a TVL was 5%. In 2017/18 this had increased to 7% so, according to the Express newspaper, the BBC is to have a crackdown on evaders through the use of 'better field enforcement activities' and 'improved identification of false no licence needed declarations'. The BBC originally wanted to reduce this to 3.95% by next year, but say that they have revised this to a more realistic goal of 6% by 2021.

The NAO go on to say that 'the failure to reduce evasion remain a concern after measures to halt the rise have so far failed to reduce the offending rate'. I presume by this they are referring to the decision to make use of the iPlayer a licensable activity.

In response TVL insisted that 'evasion has remained broadly stable over the last three years with a jump linked to new methodology and that changes of less that 1% are not statistically significant'. This statement then begs the question as to why there is a need for a crackdown at all then!

It's worth remembering that, when the percentage of homes was 5%, the BBC estimated that only 1 in 5 of these homes were evading the TVL, with the rest legitimately not needing a licence. I've no idea how many are currently estimated to be evading the fee.

Also, despite the percentage of unlicensed properties increasing, I believe that because of population growth, the actual number of licences purchased must surely have increased.

For some reason I can't post the link to the source, but if anyone wants to read it just search for 'Express BBC crackdown'.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

All the more reason for the licence to be abolished in favour of subscriptions. Problem solved, without detector vans!

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Bless...

Loved this line from the Express article https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...l-Audit-Office

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Not quite sure what you are getting at, but clearly, the difficulty and ongoing resentment caused by the licence fee would be removed in a stroke with a subscription based BBC.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

It is a daft thing to say though as it's like saying a proportion of council tax is wasted on collecting it!

Even going subscription would incur administration costs.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

My point was that the Beeb would not need to worry about people not paying their licence fee and sending those ridiculous vans around to homes that did not have a licence. If they don’t pay a subscription, they simply won’t get the service. Much simpler and less controversial.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

There never were detector vans, oh there were/are vans (26 at current count) with TV detector written on the side and an impressive but ineffective antenna but inside there was/is nothing. No kit, nothing! They exist merely to threaten the proles.

Whilst in the old valve/CRT TV days it was possible to detect a TV by emissions from the line scan output. These days no way.

"Detection" consists of looking through windows and listening through letterboxes. :D

It's a pointless effort as the numbers without TV licences will continue to climb as people shun broadcast TV and know how to deal with TVL.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Oh yes there were, They detected the first intermediate frequency leaking back out through the home's TV aerial. Now they detect signals going to the LCD panel, although they can't tell what you are receiving.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Well call me a sceptic but on the whole internet there is not one picture or data on the equipment that may, or may not, be inside a TV detector van. It's a total myth.

Secrets just aren't that secret.

Another factor is that in the absence of corroborative evidence remote sensing is inadmissible in a UK court.

The 7% figure is proof of the fact that "enforcement" is failing.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Around 2% of all U.K. vehicles are untaxed - is that proof car tax enforcement is failing?

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

In much the same way as you can cure a migraine with a bullet to the head.

The reasons why a subscription paywall is not the optimal funding model for an organisation with the size and reach of the BBC have been discussed exhaustively elsewhere on this forum, multiple times.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

The way car tax is therse days, the DVLA knows exactly when a car is not taxed, and who owns the vehicle. But people just change addresses and don't tell the DVLA, so the fines can't get to them. But Big Brother is waking even more, and soon they will be traced instantly using other agencies' databases.

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

A very old version of the van...

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/ate/tec/tvdv1.html

---------- Post added at 17:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LweldrmZh50

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Yes, it is. The tax should be added to the cost of fuel rather than applied to vehicles.

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

On which, of course, we disagree!

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Apparently, the reason given for any evidence from detector vans never being submitted to a court is because the defence would then be able to question this evidence and this would reveal how they work. As they don't want this to get out, it's never included when prosecuting.

As for whether they are real or not, I think it's a bit of both. I know a trustworthy person who says he's been in one, but that they are extremely expensive to kit out. It's widely believed that most of them are dummy vans and it's a fact that, whenever a real (or dummy) van is parked in an area, there is a surge in licenses purchased in the relevant area!

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

I agree. I think that petrol tax should be increased and the tax abolished. This would virtually wipe out evasion, reduce administrative costs and ensure that those who use the roads less (which is to be encouraged) pay less and those who create more wear and tear on the roads pay more.

The only problem with this is that those who have to use the roads more eg the disabled, those who live in rural areas etc would be penalised through no fault of their own. The mobility component of PIP could be increased to compensate the disabled, but I'm not sure how those who live in rural areas would be compensated.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Transferring the tax to fuel is also fairer, because this would recognise that the more you travelled, the more you paid. A disability badge could be provided to reduce the cost for disabled people, if necessary.

The tax system does need a shake up and the BBC is a good example of how it is not working and is not accepted by so many people, who either evade it altogether or are simply resentful of the charge because they don't use BBC output.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

It almost is anyway. 68% of the cost of petrol is tax. Every time I fill my car, I pay more tax on the fuel than I pay for a whole year of VED.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

And petrol in the EU is not even 100% petrol, it is 10% plant ethanol, rising to 15% soon.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

TV detector vans did exist, but they were there as a deterant or scare tactic.

They had no equipment, besides a useless arial and couldnt detect squat.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

And we end up with a country full of old bangers sitting on the roads and scrap cars

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Tv licence is the most resented tax of all according to a newspaper article I posted on here not so long ago, more than council tax, income tax, fuel duty etc, about time the authorities woke up and realised that fact and if it's size and scope have to be reduced then tough, it's not 1960 anymore, time for a bygone relic that is the tv licence to be consigned to history

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

I wonder though how many people do consume the BBC without knowing about it? Or how happy people would be with a purely commercial system and what that really means?

I don't resent license fee, don't really notice it but if income was dropped I can afford the license but not all the other stuff that adds up.

And with insertion of ad's into catchup/OD what will people think then about ad free content from the BBC?

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Absolutely - eg. BBC website,local and national radio. Do we really want down-market channels full of ads? The BBC is unique in its content it's not reliant on viewing figures/advertisers so it provides programming and public service broadcasting that others don't.

There is a case for those on the lowest of incomes to be exempt from the licence but exempting rich pensioners is crazy, they use it most !

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Its 2019, we should be able to implement an infrastructure that allows people who pay the license to watch BBC and those that don't watch it not to pay. The likes of Sky channels and similar should not be 'locked' to those that pay a licence as those channels don't receive money from the license fee.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Would it stop them using BBC radio/website? We need a public broadcaster.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

If we lock it behind the license fee then yes, which would be harder for radio obviously. But then you don't need a licence for those things.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Even though you don't need a licence, these services have to be funded. They might just disappear without a licence fee.

We might be going round in circle with BBC threads. But worth pointing out it's £13 a month, for mostly unique quality content, plus all the extra non TV services. It compares very favourably with Sky/VM subs, who are mostly showing repeats/imported content or reruns of BBC stuff !

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Sky/VM subs fund the costs of buying in and broadcasting the content. Freview is relatively cheap to physically broadcast.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

The BBC actually make new programmes, a heck of a lot more than Sky/VM. That's what costs money.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Then let's keep it at £13 a month but don't punish those who want to watch Sky Sports but not the BBC.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

I think that concessionary licenses should be abolished and the charge added to the council tax. This way it would be cheaper to administer, reduce evasion to virtually zero and stop TVL inspectors harassing those who do not need a licence.

Also, the extra charge would then be eligible for the Council Tax Reduction scheme, meaning that those on low incomes could qualify for up to 70/80% off the charge.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

So where does all the non-BBC stuff come from? Even the BBC buy in programmes and co-produce with others.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

You do realise that you could have a streaming service for the cost of the licence fee, don't you, and you would get about £70 quid change!

---------- Post added at 12:48 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

Maybe, but no-one is compelled to subscribe to Sky.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

l absolutely agree Mr K but you cannot make a horse go to water as the old saying goes.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Well, I suppose you can, but you can't force it to drink it :D

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

You could. But assuming your tv is capable of showing BBC then you need to pay the license.

You are in favour of streamers having cheap/free services with ads and dearer service without ads.

Surely the same could apply yo the BBC and scrap the license?

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Wrong! The "offence" is ACTUALLY watching broadcast TV, not possession of equipment capable of watching broadcast TV. I could own a million TVs capable of watching the BBC, switched on and running and still not commit an offence. That is why they have to catch you actually watching it.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

They have obviously changed it then, even being able to record it was an offence.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

True recording a live TV broadcast is also an offence without a licence but how could you prove that a recording was actually made at an address that did, or did not, have a valid licence? Impossible.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

It was changed ages ago. Being able to record it is an offence.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

I don't suppose it would be too difficult to prove with VM customers, but not for the free platforms, as I assume that VM will have a record of the serial number of the boxes installed for customers.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

I was thinking more of recordings made on portable media rather than say a TIVO. Even then on the TIVO you would have to prove that the recording was made live rather than on demand.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

You cant record on demand? While it might not be enough in itself, the fact you're paying Virgin to access the TiVo box and TV services COULD prove you are watching live TV.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

PVR, DVD rec, HHD rec etc. Most smart TV's can record to a USB device what you're watching.

You also might have the TV service, which incudes radio channels and OD, available as part of a package to save money. Not actual proof.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Do those work with TiVo? And even if they do, you don't need a licence to watch on demand apart from iPlayer.

That's why I said could. You'll have a hard time convincing a court that you pay for VM or Sky TV but don't use it to watch live TV. Will be even harder if paying for Sky Sports or Movies.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

A lot of people pay magazine subscriptions or gym memberships and never use the products they are paying for.

When I first got cable, I had Sky, but took the basic cable TV service too as it was cheaper because it attracted a new customer offer.

As you say though, if people have got Sports/Cinema too it does look more suspicious.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

You don't have to have a licence to attend the gym or read the magazines...

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

I know, but my point is that you could claim (truthfully or otherwise) that you have a device that needs a licence for licenseable activity, but that you never use it for licenseable activity eg listening to the radio stations or that you don't use it at all.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

You could argue it, then get found guilty...

I think people should just the licence instead of looking for loopholes. Non payers to be publically flogged (must be true what they say about you getting more right wing as you get older ;) )

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

I'm just looking at it from the legal angle really without any moral slant.

If a licence was needed for using a dishwasher and someone purchased one, but decided not to use it and continue to wash up in the sink, they could argue that they didn't need a licence.

You're right though, claiming to do something that's perfectly possible, but unlikely (even if actually true) is no guarantee that you'd be found not guilty of committing the criminal offence of TV licence evasion. Is it worth it for little over three quid a week?

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

If someone purchased a dishwasher, that's not a problem. If someone purchased a dishwasher and detergent and put the pots in the dishwasher, then it's harder to argue.

Re: Crackdown as the number of homes without a TV licence increases to 7%.
 

Very true.