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Taf 01-03-2019 10:39
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Rules aimed at preventing ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS from renting properties breach human rights laws, the High Court has ruled.

The "Right to Rent" scheme, which requires landlords to check the immigration status of tenants, was introduced in England in 2016.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47415383

What the merry hell are these judges on? :mad::confused:

Carth 01-03-2019 10:59
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35984834)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47415383

What the merry hell are these judges on? :mad::confused:

Probably about £400k a year, most of which is seemingly spent on mind blowing drugs :D

BenMcr 01-03-2019 11:26
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35984834)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47415383

What the merry hell are these judges on? :mad::confused:
I don't see an issue with this. It's the government's responsibility to ensure that the immigration policy and procedures are managing who lives here.

Landlords are not and should not be immigration officials. However, if you do make landlords do an immigration check, then they have to do it for everyone they rent to, otherwise it is racial profiling and illegal.

And if you are a UK citizen without a passport, visa or other proof of residency, then how do you prove your right to rent?

Carth 01-03-2019 11:33
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 35984837)

And if you are a UK citizen without a passport, visa or other proof of residency, then how do you prove your right to rent?
You'd probably have a Nat Ins number and checkable medical records . . . at a guess

BenMcr 01-03-2019 11:40
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35984839)
You'd probably have a Nat Ins number and checkable medical records . . . at a guess
That doesn't prove your current immigration status, just that at some point you qualified for an NI number and have been ill in the UK.

Carth 01-03-2019 11:42
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 35984842)
That doesn't prove your current immigration status, just that at some point you qualified for an NI number and have been ill in the UK.
how do you get an NI number if you're an illegal immigrant?

BenMcr 01-03-2019 11:46
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35984843)
how do you get an NI number if you're an illegal immigrant?
Overstayed a valid visa? Child born in the UK of someone who did?

The issue with the law isn't about immigration law, it's about forcing landlords to do it and ending up them racially profiling people when they do.

nomadking 01-03-2019 12:30
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 35984845)
Overstayed a valid visa? Child born in the UK of someone who did?

The issue with the law isn't about immigration law, it's about forcing landlords to do it and ending up them racially profiling people when they do.
How on earth is it racially profiling anybody? It applies to everybody.


Should the alternative be that the prospective tenants have to be vetted and approved by the Home Office?

Damien 01-03-2019 12:53
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35984853)
How on earth is it racially profiling anybody? It applies to everybody.


Should the alternative be that the prospective tenants have to be vetted and approved by the Home Office?
Why do you need an alternative? We got on fine without having to check the status of everybody wanting to rent.

RichardCoulter 01-03-2019 13:00
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
It does seem to look like the Government is trying to get, not just landlords, but employers, the NHS etc to do their job for them instead of taking action themselves.

Getting a NI number is relatively easy, in fact, there are more NI numbers in existence than there are living people in the UK.

If they cannot get one, one ruse that they use is to trawl historical death notices for children who died early in their lives. Once the child would have reached 16 years of age, the assume their identity and apply for a NI number. No morals whatsover.

Damien 01-03-2019 16:35
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
The hostile environment policy isn't it? Turning all sorts of interactions with the state into a chance to be caught out. In theory it's fine but as well as giving the rest of us an extra step to many of our interactions and can also catch out people who don't have formal evidence of their right to remain as we found out with Windrush.

You need a universal national identity scheme if you're going to do stuff like this.

papa smurf 01-03-2019 16:38
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35984888)
The hostile environment policy isn't it? Turning all sorts of interactions with the state into a chance to be caught out. In theory it's fine but as well as giving the rest of us an extra step to many of our interactions and can also catch out people who don't have formal evidence of their right to remain as we found out with Windrush.

You need a universal national identity scheme if you're going to do stuff like this.


I don't like the idea of identity cards ,i know who i am and it's worked for me for the last 62 years.

denphone 01-03-2019 16:40
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35984888)
The hostile environment policy isn't it? Turning all sorts of interactions with the state into a chance to be caught out. In theory it's fine but as well as giving the rest of us an extra step to many of our interactions and can also catch out people who don't have formal evidence of their right to remain as we found out with Windrush.

You need a universal national identity scheme if you're going to do stuff like this.
But they did plan that and then kicked it into touch.

---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35984889)
[/B]

I don't like the idea of identity cards ,i know who i am and it's worked for me for the last 62 years.
Sometimes we have consider the greater good papa rather then ourselves.

OLD BOY 01-03-2019 16:43
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35984889)
[/B]

I don't like the idea of identity cards ,i know who i am and it's worked for me for the last 62 years.
You might know who you are, but your present enlightened state may not go on forever...:erm:

Damien 01-03-2019 17:26
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35984889)
[/B]

I don't like the idea of identity cards ,i know who i am and it's worked for me for the last 62 years.
Fine but if it only contained the information of a passport? I.E No biometrics.

Or no ID card at all but then we should be more relaxed about how often we require proof of citizenship. But not formalising the concept/process whilst demanding it is going to cause problems for some people.

heero_yuy 01-03-2019 17:47
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Quote from Damien:


Fine but if it only contained the information of a passport? I.E No biometrics.
You might want to include no RFID so you can't be tracked by the state.:erm:

nomadking 01-03-2019 18:08
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
A little while ago there was a TV series on BBC1 about council housing fraud. Multiple instances of people who shouldn't have been in the country. They did find one case of a white person being involved in something.

RichardCoulter 01-03-2019 18:30
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35984898)
Fine but if it only contained the information of a passport? I.E No biometrics.

Or no ID card at all but then we should be more relaxed about how often we require proof of citizenship. But not formalising the concept/process whilst demanding it is going to cause problems for some people.
It's going to get worse as we move more online. A bank recently needed my ID, they asked for an electric or gas bill and my passport. My passport is out of date, so they wouldn't accept it and my utility bills are all done online.

In the end my water rates and council tax bills sufficed, but how long before these go online only?

Taf 01-03-2019 18:35
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
But for work in the UK...

Quote:
Employers are required to keep a photocopy of the passports of all employees proving right to work in the UK for the whole time the person is in their employment and for 2 years after they leave. The Border Agency can ask to see it and if the employer cannot produce it they could be prosecuted.
https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

Hugh 01-03-2019 18:48
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35984904)
It's going to get worse as we move more online. A bank recently needed my ID, they asked for an electric or gas bill and my passport. My passport is out of date, so they wouldn't accept it and my utility bills are all done online.

In the end my water rates and council tax bills sufficed, but how long before these go online only?
These can be printed of as PDFs, which are usually acceptable.

I use any letter from HMRC, which also has your NI number as well for additional proof - most people get one or two of these a year.

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35984908)
But for work in the UK...
Quote:
Employers are required to keep a photocopy of the passports of all employees proving right to work in the UK for the whole time the person is in their employment and for 2 years after they leave. The Border Agency can ask to see it and if the employer cannot produce it they could be prosecuted.
https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work
Most organisations ask for this at interview stage.

Angua 01-03-2019 18:52
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35984904)
It's going to get worse as we move more online. A bank recently needed my ID, they asked for an electric or gas bill and my passport. My passport is out of date, so they wouldn't accept it and my utility bills are all done online.

In the end my water rates and council tax bills sufficed, but how long before these go online only?
Imagine the hurdles someone with LD has to jump through when they leave home and go into supported accommodation. The only ID they may have is their ESA or PIP claim.

The move to on-line forms and claims then has to be sure to work with GDPR rules. Even more of a nightmare.

nomadking 01-03-2019 19:03
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
The underlying problem is that this country has been allowed to become a cesspool of people who constantly take the proverbial and anything else they can get their hands on. Just look at the staggering amount of fraud surrounding Grenfell.


Over 30 years ago, when I had to move away from home, it was all done in a day. Saw advert on a Saturday morning in the local press for a bedsit in a nearby town, rang up, travelled there by bus, agreed everything, travelled back, arranged a taxi to take me and my stuff there, all in about 8 hours.

RichardCoulter 01-03-2019 19:20
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35984912)
Imagine the hurdles someone with LD has to jump through when they leave home and go into supported accommodation. The only ID they may have is their ESA or PIP claim.

The move to on-line forms and claims then has to be sure to work with GDPR rules. Even more of a nightmare.
True and to claim the benefits themselves now requires proof of identity and NI number (the system has a verified/not verified field that shows the status of the claimants details).

Taf 01-03-2019 19:55
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Our twins have dual nationality, so opening bank accounts for their ESA / DLA / PIP to be paid into was a nightmare.

No UK passports, just French ID's. 2 banks refused to accept them. No utility bills as they live with us. No previous bank accounts. NI cards, Birth Certificates and letters from ESA / DLA / PIP eventually did the trick at the third bank. But they still wanted letters from the French Consulate in London validating their status. And those letters weren't cheap to get hold of!

So why has a judge ruled against immigration status checks for renting homes? From ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!

Damien 01-03-2019 20:48
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35984918)
Our twins have dual nationality, so opening bank accounts for their ESA / DLA / PIP to be paid into was a nightmare.

No UK passports, just French ID's. 2 banks refused to accept them. No utility bills as they live with us. No previous bank accounts. NI cards, Birth Certificates and letters from ESA / DLA / PIP eventually did the trick at the third bank. But they still wanted letters from the French Consulate in London validating their status. And those letters weren't cheap to get hold of!

So why has a judge ruled against immigration status checks for renting homes? From ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!
They haven't. They've ruled against doing it all. You've just pointed out the problems with having to always have to prove who you are all the time.

pip08456 01-03-2019 21:24
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35984918)
Our twins have dual nationality, so opening bank accounts for their ESA / DLA / PIP to be paid into was a nightmare.

No UK passports, just French ID's. 2 banks refused to accept them. No utility bills as they live with us. No previous bank accounts. NI cards, Birth Certificates and letters from ESA / DLA / PIP eventually did the trick at the third bank. But they still wanted letters from the French Consulate in London validating their status. And those letters weren't cheap to get hold of!

So why has a judge ruled against immigration status checks for renting homes? From ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!
The judge has ruled against this.

Quote:
The "right to rent" scheme, which requires landlords to check the immigration status of tenants, was introduced in England in 2016.
Different kettle of fish Taf.

Maggy 01-03-2019 23:44
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35984924)
They haven't. They've ruled against doing it all. You've just pointed out the problems with having to always have to prove who you are all the time.
:tu: Good job I have my birth certificate issued in the British Colony of Nigeria in 1952 to prove I have the right to call myself a British citizen. I've heard of one chap also born in Nigeria at the same time period who has lost his certificate and as a consequence is under threat of being deported.

When I started working for an agency that provided supply teachers I had to provide all of this documentation to prove that I wasn't an illegal immigrant after being in this country without question for over 50 years.

mrmistoffelees 02-03-2019 08:52
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Companies are now rechecking right to work in the UK ahead of you know what.....

1andrew1 03-03-2019 12:35
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35984965)
Companies are now rechecking right to work in the UK ahead of you know what.....
Pancake Day? :D

Hugh 03-03-2019 14:31
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35985077)
Pancake Day? :D
If the Government made pancakes the way they’ve handled Brexit, we’d end up with a glass of milk, scrambled eggs, and some plain flour left over...

Breakfast means breakfast ;)

daveeb 03-03-2019 15:20
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35985088)
If the Government made pancakes the way they’ve handled Brexit, we’d end up with a glass of milk, scrambled eggs, and some plain flour left over...

Breakfast means breakfast ;)

;) or it could possibly end up as fudge.

1andrew1 03-03-2019 15:35
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35985088)
If the Government made pancakes the way they’ve handled Brexit, we’d end up with a glass of milk, scrambled eggs, and some plain flour left over...

Breakfast means breakfast ;)
Pancake Day would be moved to November if Theresa May had anything to do with it!

Gavin78 03-03-2019 20:00
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Although to get an NHS number you need a be registered with a GP and to be registered with one of them you need to provide your legal status here. Providing it isn't one of those bent GP's

Mr K 04-03-2019 07:58
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35985114)
Although to get an NHS number you need a be registered with a GP and to be registered with one of them you need to provide your legal status here. Providing it isn't one of those bent GP's
Don't see what a GPs sexuality has got to do with anything ;)

denphone 04-03-2019 08:14
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35985147)
Don't see what a GPs sexuality has got to do with anything ;)
l think he is talking about GP's who works outside the law.;)

Taf 04-03-2019 11:19
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35985114)
Although to get an NHS number you need a be registered with a GP and to be registered with one of them you need to provide your legal status here.
This is probably why Casualty Departments are often filled with possible immigrants who have not registered with a GP. Perhaps because they can't as they would have to prove their immigration status?

mrmistoffelees 04-03-2019 11:41
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35985149)
l think he is talking about GP's who works outside the law.;)
If you can find them, maybe you can hire......

ianch99 04-03-2019 13:47
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35985184)
This is probably why Casualty Departments are often filled with possible immigrants who have not registered with a GP. Perhaps because they can't as they would have to prove their immigration status?
"Casualty Departments are often filled with possible immigrants"?

I cannot believe anyone can believe this utter tosh ..

mrmistoffelees 04-03-2019 14:04
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35985184)
This is probably why Casualty Departments are often filled with possible immigrants who have not registered with a GP. Perhaps because they can't as they would have to prove their immigration status?

lets go with the above lunacy for a moment.

Are you saying that if a casualty dept is filled with immigrants who have not registered with a GP but present with conditions requiring treatment they should not be treat ?

denphone 04-03-2019 14:08
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35985231)
"Casualty Departments are often filled with possible immigrants"?

I cannot believe anyone can believe this utter tosh ..
Not in our Casualty Department they ain't and its a pretty big city l live in.

mrmistoffelees 04-03-2019 14:24
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35985236)
Not in our Casualty Department they ain't and its a pretty big city l live in.

More likely to be people who've had too much to drink on a night out... well it has been in my local A&E on the couple of times i have needed to go

denphone 04-03-2019 14:30
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35985240)
More likely to be people who've had too much to drink on a night out... well it has been in my local A&E on the couple of times i have needed to go
Going by my own experiences and l have to go there more then most that is always the biggest problem they have to deal with.

Carth 04-03-2019 14:47
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35985243)
Going by my own experiences and l have to go there more then most that is always the biggest problem they have to deal with.
I remember some 'wild nights' in my younger days but never ended up in casualty . . . and the beer seemed stronger then too :D

denphone 04-03-2019 14:49
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35985244)
I remember some 'wild nights' in my younger days but never ended up in casualty . . . and the beer seemed stronger then too :D
That was before the rise of the binge drinkers l suspect.

Carth 04-03-2019 15:42
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35985246)
That was before the rise of the binge drinkers l suspect.
Yeah true, out in the evening at 8:00, back home (or somewhere) by 3:00 am :D

RichardCoulter 04-03-2019 18:29
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Young people often drink before going out these days, they call it 'pre loading'. In addition, drugs are much, much more prevalent and easy to get hold of these days.

Damien 04-03-2019 19:17
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35985273)
Young people often drink before going out these days, they call it 'pre loading'. In addition, drugs are much, much more prevalent and easy to get hold of these days.
There is actually quite a big drop off in young people drinking. It was the generation before this one, people aged between 25-35, who were the preloading generation (those who binged before even going out).

mrmistoffelees 04-03-2019 19:20
Re: ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT rent rights
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35985257)
Yeah true, out in the evening at 8:00, back home (or somewhere) by 3:00 am :D
You mean 8am... right? ;)


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