12 MP Party Departures
 

LATEST BREAKING: Three Tory MPs resign from Conservative Party to join Independent Group.

The Tory Defectors are:

Heidi Allen, Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston.

https://news.sky.com/story/live-spec...group-11642586

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

They don't have any balls .....

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

As women do they need them ?

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

If they were wanting to play tennis yea they would be helpful .....

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

You mean they get their positions/jobs merely because they are female? As opposed to having any ability.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

11 that's quite a large round of drinks in the bar, should keep sourbelly happy :beer:

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

:D:D:D

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Not surprising at all as l mentioned it the other day as the three have been planning it for a while.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Gone before they were pushed.

I demand a People's By-Election Vote in their constituencies, we need to have one with the new information that has come to hand on their defection to another political party.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

There should be By-Elections in all the 11 constituencies where the defections have taken place that is for sure.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

No, I don't mean that at all.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

The problem with forcing by-election when this happens is that people will wait until they are pushed instead of them jumping. Would it be right in all cases to force a by-election where MPs are "pushed" out?

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Is it right for their constituents to no longer be representing the party manefesto that they were elected upon?

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

That might not necessarily be true where they are "pushed".

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

I know you're being somewhat ironic there, but I do think you are right - they were elected for their party, and now they've changed sides there should be a by-election.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

I think the Tories will be better off without them to be honest.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

True.

One now has to ask what they all stand for, what is their message, what policies they ALL agree on?

A New Political Party sounds hunky dory, but they have to some form of political will and at the moment, I am not seeing it, it's just a mill of disgruntled MPs, none of them so far have leadership qualities.

If May calls an election, they would all pretty much lose their seats, they are just not election ready or a viable option.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

disagree being held hostage to far right aint good at all same as labour being held hostage to far left is not good for country at all

like many people in this country I am now politically homeless

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

The politics of extremes never works out well as anybody who follows politics will know.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

exactly Den

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

It’s absurd to call the Tories as presently represented in the Commons “extreme”.

These three have left the party over a single issue, namely Brexit. This, they are entitled to do. But to equate Brexit with right wing extremism, while at the same time eight ex-Labour MPs are accusing their party of lurching to the left and failing to oppose Brexit, is daft, especially as everybody knows they don’t come much more lefty than Jeremy Corbyn (who is and always has been Eurosceptic, and is only prevented from saying so because he leads a broadly Euro-sympathetic party that relies on votes from a broadly Eurosceptic working class client group).

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Should Farage, Nuttall, and the (around) ten other ex-UKIP MEPs who are now "Independent", also stand down as MEPs? (and Mark Reckless, who was elected as a UKIP Welsh Assembly member, but then left UKIP).

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Bit late for that with only 37 days left as a member of the EU.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

The Welsh Assembly is not dependent on our remaining in the EU though so would you like Mr Reckless to stand down?

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Well, that went well...

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...party-15861929 Brewery, arrange, couldn’t, drinking session, a, in, a - please re-arrange...

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

I don’t think Jess Phillips MP is long for the Labour Party...
Video in link.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNewsPo...09150616682496

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Yes.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

UKIP MEP Steven Woolfe needs some ointment after this burn from Conservative Central Office.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Your question is nonsensical- none of them have ironically, been hypocritical in asking for a second vote because so called “new information” exists.

---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:27 ----------

Agree. There is no far right or Extremism in the Conservative Party. It is not a far right to want to leave EU.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

they sure is far right in Conservative party as well as there is far left in control of Labour party but totally agree it not just far right that wants to leave EU as there people from far right to center to far left that do too

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

People said that the MPs who left their Political parties should hold a by-election as they were elected because they were affiliated to a Party (Labour or Conservative), and that’s who voters voted for - how is it "nonsensical" to apply the same logic to UKIP MEPs who lave left UKIP?

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

More resignations from the Conservative party on the way perhaps?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...exit-direction

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Let's hope that Rees-Mogg,Johnson,Gove join their numbers..;)

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

I explained why it is nonsensical, in the same post. Read it!!!

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------

Let’s not. But nothing wrong with Labour’s Front Bench ? :rolleyes:

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Yes, they should.
They get elected on essentially a party ticket - and then distance themselves from that party. If that happens it should trigger a re-election

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Yes your probably right but nothing wrong in hoping. If we can get rid of all the infighting that seems to have infested Parliament at the moment we might actually get back to the business of running the country and dealing with important issues actually sorted out.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

While I vote for a person MP's are also elected based on their party and the party assists with their election so if you resign the whip yourself you should really step down.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Yes, and demanding a second referendum whilst denying your own constituants a by-election vote on whether you should still be their MP is rank hypocracy.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

I think if any politician leaves the party they were voted in to serve by the public they should go back to the people in a local election, put forward the new party's manifesto for the people to vote on and see who's interested,most people vote for a party not a person imo.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Unless the person voted for is an Independant with their own platform then a party member is elected not just for themselves but also the platform the party is putting forward.

If they then leave the party they should stand again and put forward the alternative platform they are standing on.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Perhaps the electoral rules should be changed to make that happen

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Exactly this.

I would welcome any change in electoral law that said anyone who resigned the whip of their Party, effectively resigning from their party and parliament as a sitting MP. They are no longer representing the policies they were elected on and yes I expect this to apply to ALL, including Farage. The issue I raised above with Hugh is that Farage has hardly been calling for a second referendum, or a peoples vote, the MPs who have joined "TIG", have and ALL of them are advocating that they don't need a people's vote in a by-election.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

But Farage and others have resigned the whip, and from the party, of UKIP.

Are you saying if a Tory or Labour MP resigns from their Party, and Whip, but still follows their Manifesto, they don't need to resign from their current seat or stand in a by-election as an independent MP?

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Why would anyone resign from a party and still follow that party's manefesto? It doesn't make sense.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

You would have to ask the UKIP MEPs - that’s what they’ve done...

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

This thread is not about UKIP MEPs. We’re talking about MPs so stay on topic.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

If a party withdraws the whip from an MP, they then sit as an independent, there is no by-election. Therefore, it follows that if someone leaves a particular party and does not join another (pushed or leave), they are free to vote as their conscience dictates, whoever is proposing a piece of legislation.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Why are some of you Remainers missing the obvious, “elephant in the room”, each of these deflector MPs advocates a People’s Vote because Democracy never ends, apparently. (Their own words!!!).

Yet here they are, refusing to put themselves up for re-election in a by-election. They are total hypocrites.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Because, unless parliament votes for an extension to A50 there is no time for a new vote on the options facing us. this is the battle for us to fight for right now.

Get past Brexit first, then sort out by-elections, as if we leave regardless, these MPs raison d'etre is gone.

Apart from anything else, May has already held our the olive branch of a return to the fold to the former Tories, it is only Labour Momentum and former kippers who seem so desperate for by-elections.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

There should be By-Elections end of...

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

I tend to think that there should be by-elections, because the party affiliation was a big reason why all of them were elected in 2017.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

What happens with Brexit is immaterial as to what these MP's should do. They could have stayed in their respective parties and rebelled (ie voted against the party line). They chose to leave the respective partys. They should put themselves up for re-election.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

I can't get excited about this until there are something like 40 "Independents".

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

A parliamentary by-election is triggered when there is a vacancy. None of these MP have resigned from parliament.

As far as I am aware, MPs are still representatives and not delegates.

For example, in 2010, it was suggested that “Members should be required to cause a by-election if they defect to a different party from the one on whose manifesto they were elected”. However, the Government said that such a change would be “a major constitutional reform of the role of Members of Parliament and their independence” and that it had “no plans to do that”.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

You’re technically correct, however the letter and the spirit of the rules are not always quite the same thing. It has become commonplace in recent years for an MP to trigger a by election in the event they cross the floor or do anything else that calls their mandate into question.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Technically MPs are not permitted to resign their seats. They have to "Take the Chiltern Hundreds".

Apart from a spate of UUP resignations over the 1985 Anglo Irish agreement, the majority of MPs resigned for alternative employment purposes, breaking parliamentary rules or ill health.

Of late only Zac Goldsmith and Mark Reckless resigned and stood on alternative platforms.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

And again the crux of the issue, that Angua seems to be conveniently missing is that each of the current 11 defectors have expressed a view that there should be a peoples vote, a 2nd EU Referendum, because there is now apparently new information, well defecting to a new political party, because you no longer support it's manifesto commitments that they were elected on, is a significant change and piece of new information, there should be a peoples vote, in the form of by-elections.

We now have 11 MPs currently not representing their constituencies, that they got elected on.

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

Um, which is exactly what the current 11 are doing.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Not that common though. Jared O'Mara didn't call one when he resigned the party. Fiona Onasanya we're not sure about because she has been convicted but not enough to be forced to resign and at the moment doesn't appear to want to do so. Frank Field didn't. John Woodcock has had the whip withdrawn so probably doesn't count. Stephen Lloyd resigned the Liberal Democrats to vote for May's deal too.

That's all this Parliament. Labour weren't especially concerned until now either.

That said I think they should call one.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

The irony is if any of these folk had the courage of their convictions months ago we could have had 11 separate by-elections they could have treated as a proxy-Brexit referendum.

It’d have no legal standing of course but could have demonstrated a clear shift in public opinion if they stood on a single issue. If they all won convincingly it’d have some weight. If not however...

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Only in their relative constituencies. What if the constituency voted remain originally? Clutching at straws again?

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Each can be compared to respective results from 2016. It may be that there’d be no shift which is why they’d not bet their salary/a proportion of MP pension on it.

You should have put in bold if not however.

I can’t be considered to be clutching at straws when presenting both sides, and calling them spineless.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Pip, jfman.

Unless you want to be taking a 1 day break, quit with the snipes at each other.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

They have not "crossed the house" to another party. They have yet to set up their own party. All they are is independents, which is standard practice for any MP who has the whip withdrawn, or those who resign the party whip.

Convoluted and strange though the rules of parliament are, these MPs do not have to vacate their seats if they do not wish to.

Previous MPs who have resigned to stand again, have been individuals on a solo quest to make a point, needing a by-election to campaign on. These are 8 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs who feel their respective parties have deserted them for various reasons, but who feel they cannot desert their constituents or the country.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

The 11 MPs have deserted the country. A country that voted for Brexit.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Lol, they're not being accused of throwing in their lot with Russia, they've just left their previous parties in the same way that Nigel Farage left UKIP. Their views on Brexit have not altered and neither have Farage's.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Farage is not an MP, no idea why Russia has been mentioned. Do stay on topic.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

I'm stupid enough to say that these MPs have been throwing spanners into Brexit since day one

I like being stupid, it gets me through the day :D

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Their voting record does not really back this up.

Since the war something like 69 MPs have switched from one party to another, with only four triggering a by-election for their new party, plus one standing as an independent.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

But Corbyn himself has stated that you vote for an MP not a Party or a Leader.

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-de...orbyn-11643512

Funny how he has changed his point of view.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Its so typical of politicians as they contradict themselves by saying one thing and then further down the road they say exactly the opposite.

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

Ian Austin quits Labour....

UPDATE: Currently has no plans to join the independents

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group
 

You can rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic but the end result is still the same...

Re: 11 MPs leave their Parties to join The Independent Group