Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Two UK Border Force boats to return from abroad to patrol English Channel in response to migrants crossing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46725343

Not so much of an arduous and dangerous journey if they are picked up early and brought to the UK. Good move? Humane move? Will spur even more on to set off in little boats to get here?

And where were our Border Force boats? :confused:

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Our Border Force boats were in the Mediterranean Sea.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

If we start providing a ferry service to the UK from the channel midway line they'll be coming in droves, no doubt waved on by the French authorities who'll be glad to see the back of them. :rolleyes:

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Between a rock and a hard place.

We need to discourage these people, but we can’t let them drown.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

The French seem to be quite happy to let them drown as they don't seem to be doing much about it.


If you're going to have a border-free area such as the Schengen zone, then surely every country in that zone has to properly deal with people who shouldn't be in the zone, as otherwise they are free to move to other Schengen zone countries illegally.


Just look at the fuss the EU makes of the potential movement of goods from NI to the EU, in a post-Brexit world, that don't quite meet their product rules.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

We certainly cannot let them drown. We do need to enforce the border and our laws though.

However we should place this in context. In terms of our immigration figures this is a very small amount of people. As Andrew Neil points out: https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1079709883862302720

If every single person who attempted the crossing made it then it would barely make a dent in the numbers. If they are 'highly educated Iranians' then they probably have both a good claim for asylum and can add something to the UK in addition to that.

Obviously we can't allow that because we don't want to set a bad precedent but lets have some perspective.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

220 becomes 500, 500 then becomes 5,000, then 50,000 and so on and so on. To what end do we say no, turn back and go back to France and in larger part, Europe, where they have passed through, a totally safe EU Country to get here???

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

The logistics of moving that many people make it quite unlikely.

As you say, it's not like they are in danger in France or the rest of the EU, hence the numbers being tiny.

The numbers are small and there's no real evidence that it's rising. It's just convenient for this Government to highlight it just now.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

It's not the government highlighting the issue - it's the media.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Two cheeks of the same rear end.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Is 100,000 every year, a small number?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Are visa overstayers ordinarily found in boats in the channel?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Damien was specifically pointing out the focus of the news, which was the Channel crossers - you are conflating issues.

And you are quoting Migration Watch, which has "form" in rabble-rousing and overstated numbers...

btw, you appear to have accidentally missed out the part of the article which contradicts your point

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

"Damien" stated, "In terms of our immigration figures this is a very small amount of people.". Therefore to use an estimated total figure is valid as part of a reply to his post.

BBC News
That is just since 2015 and is just the overstayers and not the complete picture.
They act as a "pull factor" and as a support network to new illegal arrivals.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Wouldn't the simplest thing to do be to announce that anyone crossing in this way or in the back of lorries will never be given permanent resident status here, or is that to simplistic

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Totally meaningless. Better would be immediate deportation back to France. They have already passed through many countrys were they could claim asylum.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Totally meaningless to remove the very reason for them coming here :confused: but better to try and send them back to another country, what if France says they don't want them back?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Is it legal to deport them to France? Are France obliged to accept them (indeed, they’re not in danger here)?

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

You would have to define that first. What is the reason for this country rather than any other thay have passed through where they could have applied for asylum?

Why the UK? Why not any other EU country? Does the rest of the EU not offer the same opportunities and support for asylum seekers?

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Because there are so many others already here that provide a support network for them. They are unlikely to simply turn up in a supposedly strange country and have no idea where to go or what to do.



Language might also be a factor, as English is the nearest thing to a worldwide language. If somebody's first language isn't English then apart from certain geographical considerations, the obvious 2nd choice language is English.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Their end result has to be permanent residence or what's the point? I'd say the reason this country is attractive is how easy it is to get work without documents, the fact you can get healthcare easier than other countries and we don't have an ID card system binding everything together. Just of the top of my head, could have it completely wrong but other than family or close friends being here I can't think of other reasons

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

So they aren't asylum seekers but economic immigrants.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

I don't know what they are, what I do know is a lot of them seem to be young, single, working age men, who incidentally are statistically more likely to have asylum applications rejected than other demographic groups :shrug:

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

It's return them not deport them.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

The post I referred to used “deportation”. The language is less important than my question? Is it legal? Do France have to take them?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

OK, replace deport with return if it makes so much difference to you, the result is still the same.

Return them immediately. Is that better for you?

I will remind you I was replying to TheDaddy and would remind him that the UN definition of a refugee is
(as amended by the 1967 protocol}

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

It makes no difference to me. It was papa smurf who made the distinction.

My question stands either way, is it legal and can France refuse?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Did France refuse them entry in the first place?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Your question does not stand at all.

What they are doing is illegal-end of!

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Not sure that "return" is a legal term. It's just Deportation or Extradition.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

And let's not forget what the actual issue here is - these are Iranian migrants fleeing a country that is not exactly war torn, they just cannot abide living in harmony with other kinds of Muslims. That is not a valid excuse to claim asylum in another country.

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Agree with you, the UK is far too attractive for them.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Are these ILLEGAL MIGRANTS hiding former ISIS members? I wonder.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

They say they are fleeing from religious persecution, according to an ITV report.

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-11-26/...n-at-any-cost/

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Yeh, OK.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Immigration scam #24,097. Yep, there's a lot of them.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

And active Iranian Quds?

Re: iIlegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

That’s exactly what we need to do.

Make the UK a less desirable place to live. Make the poor even poorer.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/wh...-applicants_en

This link on the same website cites “family considerations “ as part of the criteria. Considering we leave the EU on 29th March what rules apply then?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

The same I believe, as we enter the transition period

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

My French wife entered the UK after our marriage in 1986, and was immediately granted "Permanent Right To Reside" so does not have to apply for "Right To Reside" as an EEA member even after 2021.

But at the moment it looks like she can travel to the EU on her French ID, but would not be allowed back into the UK without a passport after 2021.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Be kind of awkward if the UK doesn't accept the French ID card having done so for years. It's the kind of existing relationship that works for everyone which we should just maintain. Like the EU passport gates.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

The French Consulate (among others of the EU) have been saying that they hope an accord can be met with the UK. But at the same time saying that travel to the EU (and around it) by UK citizens will require a passport (as we have no national ID cards).

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

I think an accord would be reached. It would be petty not to continue accepting if we've hitherto been fine with it. I wish the UK did have a National ID card that you could use to travel with the EU and on domestic flights e.t.c. Even better if it were your driving licence, NHS and NI numbers were on it too.

BTW Why did your wife get "Permanent Right To Reside"? Was it just excellent foresight cos I would have thought she was have no need for it being an EU citizen?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Some might say that the Mrs May and her hardcore 'brexiteers' are guilty of just this behaviour. As we get deeper into the potential mire I suggest 'petty' and 'tit for tat' will become common place.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

She applied as we walked into the UK. All we had to do was show ID and our marriage papers. A nice lady walked us through it, and a week later the paperwork arrived in the mail. It all used to be so simple.

As it is with thousands of EU migrants and their families who are already here. A few clicks on a website, and they have the right to stay forever. Not exactly what many Leavers expected.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

What I mean though is if that was standard then? I wouldn't have thought it was needed since her French passport/ID should have been enough for any rights required to live and work in the UK?

The reason for this registration system is because most EU citizens are here purely on the basis of being a EU citizen without any formal right to remain, even those married to Brits.

Probably not what some of them expected but it's not a surprise because there isn't any realistic alternative without causing huge problems. Imagine the disruption if, come March, every EU citizen lost their right to work and live here. Chaos.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

That might affect our obligations but not France’s.

I understand it’s your preference to send them elsewhere but I doubt it’s legal, in our laws and in international law.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Before the Maastricht Treaty, the concept of EU citizenship wasn't there. Before then there was only a freedom of movement for workers, and not just anybody from an EU country.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Those in the boats aren’t from the EU.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

I was referring to the situation with Taf's wife in 1986.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Ah yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citize...European_Union

Although I wonder if it wasn't really enforced? I've known EU citizens here which predate 1992 but I guess they were working and/or it didn't really matter. The next part of the wiki suggests the right in effect existed before then unofficially.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

It's not legal, IIRC it's called self-determination and made law by the ECHR

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/05/e...ntl/index.html

The numbers of illegal migrants crossing into the EU has fallen in 2018.

Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq being the main countries people are coming from. Quelle surprise.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

It does put the numbers into perspective.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan are big places, and as such they will have travelled safely for hundreds of miles within those countries just to get to the border. The large areas also mean that there is plenty of space to find somewhere safe. Even Syria has safe areas, ie the bits under Syrian government control.


If they really have all been counted then they must have registered at that entry point?So only 8,000 came overland?

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Come a no-deal Brexit, we will no longer be party to the Dublin Agreement so wouldn't be able to do this.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Wonder when the boats will start going in the other direction and the French will have to defend their borders from post Brexit Brits ? ;)

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

No excuse for assault.

On the other hand, as the pro-Brexit campaign was founded on the idea of taking back control and engaging those who felt disconnected and disenfranchised by our politics, it’s probably not surprising that those who took to the streets today aren’t as au fait with the normal rules of planning a demo as the usual lefty rent-a-mob.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Pretty sure most people know that assaulting police isn’t part of the normal rules of a demo (be they lefties or righties)...

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Into an EU wide perspective. I'm not sure I'd describe the current situation as floodgates.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

"hordes"

First, we dehumanise "them", then it doesn’t matter what happens to "them"...

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

I prefer the Eurostar

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Most asylum seekers come in by lorry as it's safer. Sajid Javid's emphasis on boats is just to position himself as a man of action for when Theresa May steps down.

Despite the efforts of some to get to the UK, we had just 5% of the 650,000 asylum applications in 2017. By contrast, 30% were in Germany, 20% per cent in Italy and 14% in France. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/as...visualisations

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

There will be no more posts in this thread about Brexit. One thread on the subject is enough.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Yep there was one caller to a radio phone in who when asked the question about boats carrying children to England his answer was they should be allowed to sink in the English channel.:(

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Just a symptom of the nastiness in society that seems to have taken over since 2016.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Those are just cranks that phone into radio stations, you've always had those nutters. 99%+ of people would not want or let children drown even if they support zero immigration. Anyone who does is almost certainly sick in the head.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Sorry, Hugh, have to disagree there. What is wrong with describing the migrants invading Europe as 'hordes'? The dictionary definition (Collins) defines a horde as 'a vast crowd; throng; mob'.

The word does also carry an alternative meaning (no 4 in the list): 'a large moving mass of animals, especially insects'. Clearly, that is not the meaning that those referring to 'hordes of migrants' intended, but it is the way that certain groups of people who would want an open door for everyone in the world choose to interpret it in an effort to demonise those who disagree with them.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

There are already procedures in place to try and deal with the road & train routes. The sea crossing method is more difficult to deal with.

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

They only claim asylum in this country once they are caught being here illegally. Up until that point they are here illegally and not in any figures.

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

fixed that for ya ;)

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

Re: Illegal migrants crossing the Channel.
 

ooops sorry Hugh