Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-diverse-world

What are people’s views on this? Should atheism be taught in an equal measure in schools?

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Both atheism and all religions including paganism with their good and bad points should be taught so that young people can make an informed decision as to follow or not.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Nothing wrong with whatever religion one follows as the problem is people who use religion for their own selfish and nefarious ends.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Yes

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Yes, and humanism.

Seems odd that despite the stranglehold faith based education has on third of schools, they are producing the least religious generations, year on year.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

There is no God. Even if there was, purpose was accomplished and God has died. Nothing to worship.

Religion is now a political tool (as it has been for thousands of years) designed to control people and enrich the institution or power wielder.

Atheism should be positively analysed and taught in schools and rationalised against the various religions.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

I strongly believe that no religion should be taught, studied or practiced in schools. And that faith schools should be banned during normal school hours.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Many schools I taught in did teach about other faiths without promoting them. It can provide better understanding in the society we all live in of how others have the views that they do. I do think that atheism should also be part of the syllabus.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Threads about religion rarely end well.

In answer to the question...yes.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

I do wonder how atheism could be ‘taught’. By its nature, it’s more a lack of belief rather than a belief system in itself. In fact, it’s what we start with.

Perhaps schools could instead teach critical thinking, ethics and morality in place of ‘religious’ studies, but incorporate how different religions value those aspects, with emphasis on the fact religion is not necessary in order to live by a useful, good and ethical values?

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Critical thinking and tolerance.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Tolerance is a good one, unfortunately. It seems to me that intolerance is what is taught. Children in the infant school playground rarely even see the differences between themselves and the other children they play with. At some stage, as they grow, they learn to highlight those differences.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

I don't see the problem with including atheism as part of religion education but there isn't much too it really. You could do a bit about the history of it but it's not as if there is a unifying set of beliefs/history/system to it.

I think it's patronising to teach critical thinking as part of 'atheism' as if people who are not atheists lack it.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Some may argue it's just the inverse of saying one needs religion to live morally, which implies those without religion are immoral, I guess?

This is why I think it may be better to remove the religious or atheism concepts from the equation and just teach the elements of critical thinking, et cetera. But equally, it may not be better

That said, I understand that learning about those beliefs (or lack of) helps everyone to better know or understand another's point of view, and therefore we can better understand and be mindful of them as people.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

I think the trick to teaching Atheism is to start with "who pushed the big bang button" and let it develop from there.

50% says God did it; 50% says it just happened - no God. You can then build on the "God did it" postulation leading to when God had finished setting the Universe on its path, including life on Earth, God died. Evidence? Who has seen God?

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

It would be difficult to teach in the same way as RE because the positive belief in a deity implies certain responses in terms of morality, lifestyle and religiosity. Atheism does also result in lifestyle and ethical choices but because it lacks the coherent third part, the religious response, it’s harder to integrate into a study of comparative religion.

That said, high schools these days seem to go for RME (religious and moral education) which has a greater focus on the ethical and lifestyle implications of belief and less on the religiosity of individuals or communities, so atheism as a concept would be easier to integrate into the curriculum.

As a Christian, I don’t expect my kids to learn their faith in a classroom. I think RME is (or should be) an extension of the humanities. I’m now studying theology at university and completed an introductory module in Ethics last term. I found it tremendously valuable. It was challenging and rewarding, all the more so because it sought to deal with Ethics as something living and real and in current and constant use by everyone, at all times, irrespective of their religion. I think the debate around current live ethical issues such as genetic modification (including human genetic therapy), abortion time limits, euthanasia, drug use, the death penalty, war and a whole lot of other issues would be much more vibrant in our society if there was a greater focus on ethics and the different ethical systems that are used to develop frameworks in which decisions are taken.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------

The Bible doesn’t try to prove God exists, any more than a Haynes manual attempts to prove the existence of your car. Both books make certain assumptions and proceed from there.

If you get stuck on trying to agree or disagree over cosmology you’re not going to get very far and you’re certainly not ever going to understand why a religion like Christianity exists and what the consequences of its existence are for believers and the world.

Religious studies, remember, are there to study the religion and its consequences. If you want to contemplate God, then you want theology (which is the term used by Christians at any rate ... you can study the concept of God in an Islamic or Hindu context also, doubtless they have their own terms for that).

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

I notice my children are more tolerant than I am and a lot more tolerant than my husband is.

Seeing people as different is taught by parents and some schools via belief systems. So maybe this is what I mean by teaching tolerance.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Children aren't born with a sense of "God". So teaching them that there might be a God (inferable because RE would include religions based on God) causes the children to lean in an improbable direction. Then they get leftfield information about how one religion regards other religions as inimical, one and of them only fit to be wiped out. You see where I'm coming from.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Competing world views are more than capable of attempting to wipe each other out without a religious framework or a belief in a god. Marxism, for example, has proven itself adept at facilitating mass slaughter in pursuit of its aims, whilst being avowedly atheistic.

Religion doesn’t turn humans into murderers. We are quite capable of developing rationales in support of genocide without it. Actually, in ethical terms the appeal to higher authority lessens the likelihood of conflict, not vice versa.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Could you cite some examples please, with an indication of the magnitude of suffering caused. If you do, I’ll return the favour with a list of conflicts with no religious motive, and which I’m grimly confident will be longer and bloodier.

I’m sorry but I’m an old lag when it comes to the “religion causes war” fallacy. The truth is, humans cause war, in pursuit of resources and power, using whatever philosophical justification is closest at hand at the time.

Incidentally, ISIS is a zit on the arse of humanity. The suffering they cause is magnified by the fact that it is contemporary. In comparison with almost any other coherent philosophy, past or present, they’re barely out of the nursery.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

A little high-level name checking shows that actually, you can’t do as I’ve asked ... you don’t actually understand even the examples you’ve cited. Allow me to elaborate.

The crusades are every pub bore’s go-to. Can I request you read about the sacking of Constantinople - a Christian city - in the year 1204, during the fourth crusade, before you make simplistic, sub-GCSE assertions about what motivated the young English nobles who went crusading and what they hoped to get out of the exercise.

The English Reformation ... where to begin ... well for starters let me help you out a bit, the Reformation wasn’t English; Protestantism occurred almost everywhere in Europe. It stuck, leading to Reformation, in places where local rulers saw the opportunities inherent in taking control of the influence previously held by the Pope, hence, in the English context, the creation of the Church of England that then allowed Henry VIII to get his divorce. Ordinary people may have been motivated by belief, but it turned violent when their leaders began to seek political advantage. For sure, plenty of blood was shed on the orders of those who believed that heretics must die.

The Balkans ethnic cleansing, well exactly ... ethnic, not religious. The Bosnian part of the conflict, where one side was predominantly Muslim, has lived longest in the memory because of the Srebrenica genocide, but the disintegration of Yugoslavia is the story of the disintegration of an artificial state that held together only as long as strongman Marxists were able to retain control. In any case, as many ethnic Germans were slaughtered in Yugoslavia in the aftermath of World War 2 as the combined total of all Serbs, Croats and Bosnians in the conflicts of the 1990s (130,000 or more). I assumed you’re willing to concede that the Yugoslavs had no need of any religious justification to unofficially carry on the war against those they perceived to be German for some three years after the conflict ended everywhere else.

Yes, there is often a religious component to conflict. As I’ve said, humans will use whatever philosophical justification is at hand in pursuit of power and resources. But “in the name of religion”? I’m not entirely convinced even you know what you mean by that.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

There’s no point. Stop now.

You cannot argue with a person of faith, likewise a person of faith cannot argue with someone that is not a person of faith.

It will decend into a slanging match about religion and just end there.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

It should definitely be taught / considered that atheism or agnosticism are as valid as any other choices, and maybe also evaluate the former Gods and the claims of heresy aginst such things as the Earth orbiting the Sun.

The only proof of religion, has been when it has been proved to be wrong, though perhaps the basic problem is that religion can only exist in the vacuum where proof and science have not yet reached, the same vacuum occupied by sharks and charlatans, the snake oil salesmen, the purveyors of "health giving" radioactive quackery (see "revigator" and be shocked). Belief can be harmful.

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

I used to think that religion should be kept out of our schools. I still do. I think that the old religious morning assembly has become pointless in a multi-faith society where some of the school are not Christian and are thus exempt from attendance.
I do however think teaching the basic tenets of differing religions can only add to pupil's knowledge and understanding why others are the way they are.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

At my old school there were two systems in place

1 God did it.

2 sit in detention after school .

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Well time for a change.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

I think for some athiests, atheism almost *is* a religion, just with no defined deity (although some seem to worship Richard Dawkins as if he is one). They certainly show a lot of the piousness they say that religious people show.

Personally, I don't believe in God. I believe something created us, but I don't define that thing as a God, in fact I am not sure I can define it. I am unsure if it still exists.

Do I think Religion causes wars? No. I believe it's an excuse. I believe the Human race would have wars and just use another excuse should Religion just vanish.

Do I think RE is a good thing. Yes, if it's taught correctly. It shouldn't be just telling people about a particular religion, or how good a given deity is. It should be teaching people the basis of all belief systems (I even count atheism as a belief system). It should also teach people how to look at things critically, but fairly.

Regardless of which religion you believe in, and even if you are an atheist, people may not believe the same things as you. Understanding those beliefs, and the basis for them helps in breaking down barriers between people. Something I think that especially now, the human race needs to happen.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Atheism, no, "secular philosophy" yes

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Most teaching in schools is secular, even blindly so. Even when some faith position is taught it is often done so "badly" it may as well be secular.

My kids school RE is mostly "christian" with some "islam". The local 6th form has a syllabus focussed on "buddhism". (small letters deliberate - I know their teaching on the Christian faith is very different from what I call Christianity - guessing the same is true for other faiths.

I don't want my kid's faith to be destroyed by "the system", and I'm guessing that's true for others too, even secularists but they seem to want to control things so that their "no faith" position is the only one allowed.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Atheism should always be discussed as it is the default condition. We are all born as Atheists. Some of us choose to become Theists or Deists and some of us has these beliefs forced on them during childhood.

Also, Faith Schools should be banned from the public sector. Taxpayers should not be made to pay for this:



---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:15 ----------

The Bible cannot, by definition, attempt to prove the existence of God. Religion mandates Faith without proof. If you could prove God exists, you would no longer need Faith.

The Haynes manual requires no faith in the existence of the car it is documenting. Rather it's aim is to document the existence of the vehicle in so much detail that to any fair minded person, the probability of the document being a work of fiction is so low as to be ignored.

It also provides to the (rare) individual that believes that the car has never existed, information & detail that can be independently verified in alternate knowledge centres. For example, you can search for the specific engine part number and discover that the part does in deed fit the car in question.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

:clap:

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

:tu::tu::tu::tu:

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

The only thing that created us was physics, chemistry, biology and shear luck...

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

So 4 things. The only 4 things that created us were physics, chemistry, biology and shear luck. And time.... 5 things!! The only 5 things that created us were physics, chemistry, biology, shear luck and time. And evolution... 6 things!! Wait, wait, wait... Let’s go out and start again...

Re: Should atheism be taugh along side religious studies in schools?
 

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Relegion should only be taught in churches etc.

Should should only teach the basics and to respect peoples beliefs, regardless of their own.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Exactly. Preferably tied up with human rights and equality and diversity legislation as they go along.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Tricky. Human rights and equality and diversity legislation are in short supply in the Religious texts and when you get the people who follow these texts literally, they really go out of the window.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Did you know (no, you didn’t, but hey), that women have held office in the Baptist Church since the 1620s and the first fully accredited female Baptist minister began serving in the 1920s? Within the Reformation it was Baptists who argued, were pilloried, jailed and executed, for insisting on freedom of religion, including the freedom to have no religion at all.

I think you might be surprised at what is actually in the Bible, as opposed to what powerful people have chosen to present as Biblical in order to arrange society to suit themselves.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

Which is why they should be included.

Far too easy for fundamentalists to fall back on "but X says Y is wrong" or "A dictates how B should be treated", then use belief as an excuse to act in a way that is anti human rights and equality.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

I've said this a few times over the years, but I had two RE teachers at school. I had an Irish Catholic RE teacher for four years, who basically taught us that Catholocism and Christianity are good, everything else is bad or unimportant.

Then, he left (retired I think) and a younger, Jewish RE teacher took over. He taught us about all of the major world religions. He taught the history behind the beliefs, and also taught us to question what we are told (a good rule for life beyond RE and something I still do). We even had a whole lesson discussing whether we thought Jesus was homosexual (IIRC we came to the conclusion that while there was no evidence in the Bible that Jesus had a sexual attraction to anyone, he probably leaned that way), which I can't imagine my other RE teacher even allowing.

Now, I know my second teacher's niece (she is a friend of my sister) and apparently he is extremely religious, and was when he was teaching me. He still taught us to question religion though. He also continually drummed in to use that it was important we found our own beliefs. If we chose to believe a given religion, that was good. If we chose to believe in Atheism, that was good also. If we chose not to believe in Religion, that was good.

Re: Should atheism be taught along side religious studies in schools?
 

What with the snide remarks? Totally unnecessary.

I confess, I am not up-to-date with the detailed 500 year history of the Baptist church. While I am at it, I also not up-to-date with the historical details of:

Lutheranism
Methodism
Calvinism
Continental Reformed church
Anabaptism
Hussites
Quakers
Pentecostalism
Nondenominational Christianity
African initiated Protestant churches
Seventh-day Adventist Church
New Apostolic Church
Restoration Movement
Anglicanism
Eastern Orthodox Church
Oriental Orthodoxy
Mormonism
Jehovah's Witnesses
Oneness Pentecostalism
Catholic Church
Independent Catholicism
Nestorian Church
Messianic Judaism

The fact that you are congratulating the Baptist Church for supporting the freedom to have no religion at all, I feel proves the points being made. Celebrating the right to not have religion forced upon you ... no more needs to be said on this point.

I would not be surprised at what you would find in the Bible since it provides legitimacy for many of the crimes carried out in the name of religion over the centuries.

Saying that these crimes are more the fault of "powerful people" than the religious texts underwriting the motivation & justification is just factually inaccurate.

---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------

Atheism is not a belief system, rather it is the lack of belief. Everyone is born an Atheist, by definition.

Atheism