Cable Forum

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33706364)

Carth 08-05-2018 17:04
Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
The latest brainwave thought up by the clueless?

http://www.itv.com/news/2018-05-08/p...port-suggests/

Everyone in the UK should be paid £10,000 when they turn 25 . . so hands up all those who think the majority of recipients wouldn't blow that on a new car, foreign holiday, beer/drugs instead of buying a house/flat :rolleyes:

It [the report] found millennials, people born between 1981 and 2000, are only half as likely to own their home by age 30 as baby boomers, born between 1946 and 1965, were. . . . there were a lot more jobs on offer back then, and a damn sight more available housing being built.

If pensioners in work did pay national insurance, it could be used to provide extra funding for the NHS, something the older generations would be more likely to benefit from. . . . oh excuse me for not realising that nobody gets ill until they're over 60, and then they all want nose jobs, boob jobs, gender realignment, and weekly treatment for being out of their faces on booze & drugs :D

Damien 08-05-2018 17:29
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35946271)
If pensioners in work did pay national insurance, it could be used to provide extra funding for the NHS, something the older generations would be more likely to benefit from. . . . oh excuse me for not realising that nobody gets ill until they're over 60, and then they all want nose jobs, boob jobs, gender realignment, and weekly treatment for being out of their faces on booze & drugs :D
The NHS is disportionately used by the elderly because people do by and large getting sicker as they get older.

Anyway this policy isn't going to happen, not least because no government will dare touch pensioners' benefits. Look what happened to the Tories at the last election.

Paul 08-05-2018 17:32
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Who pays these nut cases ?

A two year study, just to come up with this nonsense - wtf ?

denphone 08-05-2018 17:32
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
As Damien says not a hope in hell of this becoming policy.

Maggy 08-05-2018 17:37
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Be more to the point if they went after tax dodgers.Then they might just have enough money.Oh and when do we see anything back from the banks being bailed out?

heero_yuy 08-05-2018 17:50
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Quote from Paul M:


Who pays these nut cases ?

A two year study, just to come up with this nonsense - wtf ?
Nice work if you can get it.:D

Presumably the same nutters who want to pay everybody a wage even if they don't work.

The magic money tree is in danger of being stripped bare.

Damien 08-05-2018 17:54
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
The other thing is it’s a rubbish idea anyway.

It’s yet another idea designed to not address the root problem which is the lack of affordable housing. Successive governments have not been willing to risk angering the NIMBYs or people not getting absurd house price increases.

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35946285)
Nice work if you can get it.:D

Presumably the same nutters who want to pay everybody a wage even if they don't work.

The magic money tree is in danger of being stripped bare.
Universal basic income is one approach to the possible risk of mass job losses after automation. Depending how that pans out it might not be too mad an idea.

Mick 08-05-2018 18:15
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Absolute dire idea. This will never see light of day...

RizzyKing 08-05-2018 18:39
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
I look forward to reading how it will be implemented in the next labour manifesto gets them out of the whole pesky wiping student loans pledge.

nomadking 08-05-2018 18:42
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Several fake passports and you're in the money bigtime.

RichardCoulter 09-05-2018 01:53
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
To buy my first house I worked full time in the day and worked five nights a week, although I accept that house prices are much more expensive now.

One of the few things that Cameron did that I agreed with was to scrap the children's trust funds, so I can't see this happen either as it's an even higher figure.

They are thinking of scrapping the exemption for NI contributions for pensioners who continue to work, which I have long called for. Those who can afford to should pay for their prescriptions too.

Maggie makes a good point though, they should be going after the tax avoiders (and the bankers who got us into this mess). I don't believe that a single one has been brought to justice for bringing the country to it's knees.

TheDaddy 09-05-2018 03:19
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35946286)
The other thing is it’s a rubbish idea anyway.

It’s yet another idea designed to not address the root problem which is the lack of affordable housing. Successive governments have not been willing to risk angering the NIMBYs or people not getting absurd house price increases.

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:53 ----------



Universal basic income is one approach to the possible risk of mass job losses after automation. Depending how that pans out it might not be too mad an idea.
That's not the reason or if it is it's only part of it, the real reason for the housing crisis is because we've let so much of London be sold of to the highest bidder, tax evaders, despots, organised crime, drug dealers and other **** of the earth mixing with foreign investors buying up every new development before locals even hear about it, meaning locals get pushed further out into the suburbs pushing the prices up there to. Now London is done they're moving on to other big cities like Sheffield and Manchester and the same will happen there to.

I'm sick of all these poxy government schemes, they should call them scams, the latest one is to sell of the help to buy loan book, all those people that thought they were talking a loan from the government are about to be delivered into the arms of bankers. Where does all this money go to as well, it just drains away, the little people never see the benefit.

pip08456 09-05-2018 04:03
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35946328)
I don't believe that a single one has been brought to justice for bringing the country to it's knees.
For once we agree Richard.

denphone 09-05-2018 05:23
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35946334)
For once we agree Richard.
And me too as its pretty scandalous that no one has been bought to book so far and is highly unlikely to be brought to book sadly.

nomadking 09-05-2018 07:58
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Where properties in London are being sold to investors, they are the top-end expensive properties that people couldn't afford even with an extra £10,000.

The central problem is this nonsense of "getting on the property ladder". It is this notion of getting easy free money was a large cause of the banking crisis. It was people not paying back their loans/mortgages that caused the problems. That was the source of the bank losses.

People complained that unaffordable mortgages had been too easy to obtain, so the rules were changed to make to more difficult, and now people are complaining about that.

Hugh 09-05-2018 08:33
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35946340)
Where properties in London are being sold to investors, they are the top-end expensive properties that people couldn't afford even with an extra £10,000.

The central problem is this nonsense of "getting on the property ladder". It is this notion of getting easy free money was a large cause of the banking crisis. It was people not paying back their loans/mortgages that caused the problems. That was the source of the bank losses.

People complained that unaffordable mortgages had been too easy to obtain, so the rules were changed to make to more difficult, and now people are complaining about that.
The Economist summarised it well.

https://www.economist.com/news/schoo...-years-article
Quote:
THE collapse of Lehman Brothers, a sprawling global bank, in September 2008 almost brought down the world’s financial system. It took huge taxpayer-financed bail-outs to shore up the industry. Even so, the ensuing credit crunch turned what was already a nasty downturn into the worst recession in 80 years. Massive monetary and fiscal stimulus prevented a buddy-can-you-spare-a-dime depression, but the recovery remains feeble compared with previous post-war upturns. GDP is still below its pre-crisis peak in many rich countries, especially in Europe, where the financial crisis has evolved into the euro crisis. The effects of the crash are still rippling through the world economy: witness the wobbles in financial markets as America’s Federal Reserve prepares to scale back its effort to pep up growth by buying bonds.

With half a decade’s hindsight, it is clear the crisis had multiple causes. The most obvious is the financiers themselves—especially the irrationally exuberant Anglo-Saxon sort, who claimed to have found a way to banish risk when in fact they had simply lost track of it. Central bankers and other regulators also bear blame, for it was they who tolerated this folly. The macroeconomic backdrop was important, too. The “Great Moderation”—years of low inflation and stable growth—fostered complacency and risk-taking. A “savings glut” in Asia pushed down global interest rates. Some research also implicates European banks, which borrowed greedily in American money markets before the crisis and used the funds to buy dodgy securities. All these factors came together to foster a surge of debt in what seemed to have become a less risky world.

Start with the folly of the financiers. The years before the crisis saw a flood of irresponsible mortgage lending in America. Loans were doled out to “subprime” borrowers with poor credit histories who struggled to repay them. These risky mortgages were passed on to financial engineers at the big banks, who turned them into supposedly low-risk securities by putting large numbers of them together in pools. Pooling works when the risks of each loan are uncorrelated. The big banks argued that the property markets in different American cities would rise and fall independently of one another. But this proved wrong. Starting in 2006, America suffered a nationwide house-price slump.

The pooled mortgages were used to back securities known as collateralised debt obligations (CDOs), which were sliced into tranches by degree of exposure to default. Investors bought the safer tranches because they trusted the triple-A credit ratings assigned by agencies such as Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s. This was another mistake. The agencies were paid by, and so beholden to, the banks that created the CDOs. They were far too generous in their assessments of them.

Investors sought out these securitised products because they appeared to be relatively safe while providing higher returns in a world of low interest rates. Economists still disagree over whether these low rates were the result of central bankers’ mistakes or broader shifts in the world economy. Some accuse the Fed of keeping short-term rates too low, pulling longer-term mortgage rates down with them. The Fed’s defenders shift the blame to the savings glut—the surfeit of saving over investment in emerging economies, especially China. That capital flooded into safe American-government bonds, driving down interest rates...

...Complex chains of debt between counterparties were vulnerable to just one link breaking. Financial instruments such as credit-default swaps (in which the seller agrees to compensate the buyer if a third party defaults on a loan) that were meant to spread risk turned out to concentrate it. AIG, an American insurance giant buckled within days of the Lehman bankruptcy under the weight of the expansive credit-risk protection it had sold. The whole system was revealed to have been built on flimsy foundations: banks had allowed their balance-sheets to bloat (see chart 1), but set aside too little capital to absorb losses. In effect they had bet on themselves with borrowed money, a gamble that had paid off in good times but proved catastrophic in bad.

nomadking 09-05-2018 08:53
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
All the hiding did was delay matters and transfer who had to bear the losses. It was a sort of "pass the parcel" with the "winner" taking the losses. Those losses were a result of unpaid debts.

In the UK it was the Labour government(eg Homebuy scheme) and the media pressurising people to buy, in order to make easy money. There was a TV programme were a very recent graduate had bought a 3 bed house just for themselves as an investment, not as a home. This belief that anybody should be able to buy a house is nonsense. As with any "crash" the lure of easy money to be made by simply waiting, was the problem. They felt that they didn't have to repay the loan, just wait for the "inevitable" profit and sell.

The point remains that people are bleating about it being more difficult nowadays, and in the past complained about it being too easy. The 2 eras are not comparable in terms of number of people buying houses.

tweetiepooh 09-05-2018 09:30
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
What will 10k get you in the housing market, especially towards the south.

I do think though that something should be done to curb property as an investment (or simply as an investment). There will be a need for rental properties and since most people do borrow to buy property values should rise else why take the loan? We have a problem that there is too much property as an investment, not helped by all the TV programmes showing how you can buy cheap, do up and sell high.

One problem is not just prices but the price differential. This can stop people moving up, vacating smaller properties to let people in at the "bottom". We can't afford to move to a bigger house so (like many others) we've extended (loft) and added 2 more bedrooms and a bathroom for far less than moving. This could be also due to people living longer and not moving "down" once the children have flown the nest, often because it's the "family home" and the place everyone can gather.

RichardCoulter 09-05-2018 12:59
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Too many buying homes as an investment, not enough houses being built, selling off social housing cheap and a rise in the number of people coming to live here have all played their part IMO.

nomadking 09-05-2018 13:09
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35946360)
Too many buying homes as an investment, not enough houses being built, selling off social housing cheap and a rise in the number of people coming to live here have all played their part IMO.
As I pointed out, the properties bought purely for investment are high-end ones, so no real impact on availability. People are living in the social housing that was sold off, so again no impact. Enough are being built, but you can't let in this many people for there not to be a problem. Especially when so many of them make no real contribution to the country, apart from the crime rates and benefits bill.

Damien 09-05-2018 13:29
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35946361)
As I pointed out, the properties bought purely for investment are high-end ones, so no real impact on availability. People are living in the social housing that was sold off, so again no impact. Enough are being built, but you can't let in this many people for there not to be a problem. Especially when so many of them make no real contribution to the country, apart from the crime rates and benefits bill.
Although they are using land which could have been used for affordable housing. Maybe not in the most prime locations, such as Hyde Park, but there is little reason to build high-end apartments in Stratford (London) other than profit. To be honest even high-end isn't a big problem, people should be allowed to buy and live in nice houses/flats, so long as people live in them.

Reduce the land available for high-end development and increase taxes on those who buy from abroad. Stop it being used as an investment. It's mad.

RichardCoulter 09-05-2018 18:54
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35946361)
As I pointed out, the properties bought purely for investment are high-end ones, so no real impact on availability. People are living in the social housing that was sold off, so again no impact. Enough are being built, but you can't let in this many people for there not to be a problem. Especially when so many of them make no real contribution to the country, apart from the crime rates and benefits bill.
The land and labour required to build them could be better utilised if people were prevented from buying them to stay empty. This activity is also contributing to the gentrification of businesses who have traded for many years who are being forced to close.

Most council houses that were sold off cheap are now in the hands of private landlords charging much higher rents than the council, thus increasing the Housing Benefit bill even more.

Even the Government has said it intends to take action because it recognises that not enough affordable homes are being built.

I do agree that unfettered immigration has bound to have pushed up demand for homes and fuelled house prices upwards.

Hugh 09-05-2018 20:14
Re: Pay millennials £10,000 and tax working pensioners
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35946361)
As I pointed out, the properties bought purely for investment are high-end ones, so no real impact on availability. People are living in the social housing that was sold off, so again no impact. Enough are being built, but you can't let in this many people for there not to be a problem. Especially when so many of them make no real contribution to the country, apart from the crime rates and benefits bill.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...st-time-buyers
Quote:
Foreign investors are buying up thousands of homes suitable for first-time buyers in London, using them as buy-to-let investments and often holding them in offshore tax havens, research for the London mayor, Sadiq Khan, has revealed.

Led by investors from Hong Kong and Singapore, foreign buyers snapped up 3,600 of London’s 28,000 newly built homes between 2014 and 2016, according to the most comprehensive survey yet of international investment in London housing. About half of those were priced for first-time buyers between £200,000 and £500,000.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:59.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum