Windrush generation
 

Shameful and one policy this country should be utterly ashamed of.:(

https://www.ft.com/content/b7d5d1e2-...a-295c97e6fd0b

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...rted-zt3bzqw9r

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y-policy-cruel

Re: Windrush generation
 

It is a result of a situation that has existed for a long time, ie before 2010. There have been threats of deportation of people who came here as children. They leave this country for the first time to go on holiday and had trouble getting back in.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It wasn't deliberate, Den, but an inadvertent result of a change in the law a few years ago.

Glad to say that the Government is now working to put this right.

Re: Windrush generation
 

I can't believe people have been deported because of this. It's ridiculous. How did it get this far? How could the policy be so inhuman and resistant to basic logic? The absurd burden of proof these people had to obtain in order to remain and no one picked up on it until the media ran these stories?

The Government not only need to fix this for the windrush population but think how to better judge who has right to remain in future. This could happen to the EU population in a few decades time.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It seems to have been the result of an over-zealous Home Office bureaucracy and a failure of the Windrush people to get their paperwork in order at the time. I'm not criticising them, it's just the benefit of hindsight.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It might not have been deliberate but it was a policy that was cruel and heartless given that many of these people have lost their jobs, rights to health and benefits and faced deportation despite being able to show they have paid tax and National Insurance for decades..

---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

God help us if there is not a sea change in their attitude and culture before then.

Re: Windrush generation
 

The lack of access to the NHS and threat of deportation have been there all along. In the past, the NHS was meant to do checks, but didn't.

The problem is the lack of records kept in the PAST, when they arrived.

As I said previously, there have been instances of people having arrived as children and decades later, suddenly having a threat of being deported. Nothing new, except the fuss being made.

Re: Windrush generation
 

The paperwork requirements are mad though. Proof of having lived here for each year? How many people have paperwork for each year they lived here? Especially before NI contributions were digitalised. Even someone careful and proper with documentation might miss this standard.

Re: Windrush generation
 

And a change in the law 4 years ago:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...emoved-in-2014

Re: Windrush generation
 

Sky News is reporting that there is no evidence any ‘Windrush’ migrants were deported.

Re: Windrush generation
 

I suppose it depends on what the deal was when they came here. Was it a benefit of coming to fill job vacancies that they would be allowed to settle here for life, or was it always the case that this was a temporary thing?

If it was always known to be a temporary arrangements they can't really complain, but after all this time it's no longer as simple as that.

I know lots of people who came here who always had the intention of only staying for a fixed period, however, once they met a partner, had children etc they began to buy houses and such.

Racial discrimination laws made their lives easier and they were no longer happy to do the jobs that they were originally brought over for, resulting in promotion to better paid jobs.

Even at this stage many would say that they would go back to where they still considered home upon retirement. The problem was, after making friends and creating new family here, going home meant that they would have to uproot and make new friends just as they were getting older. The friends and family that they had left behind had probably died or moved on.

Whilst they would be able to take their pension abroad; i'm not sure if the Caribbean countries have something similar to Housing Benefit to help with rent etc (there again, their standard of living might be much cheaper and the British pension may be enough to live on.)

Also, just as they were getting older and more likely to need healthcare, they would lose the benefits of the NHS, many who will have paid for over the course of their working life.

Re: Windrush generation
 

There were records but they were destroyed.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ays-ex-staffer

Re: Windrush generation
 

That wouldn't have been a problem - if that data was then kept in another record system somewhere.

It seems multiple times over the years the impact changes to records and rules will have on these people has been missed or ignored :(

Re: Windrush generation
 

In 2010..... :erm:

Re: Windrush generation
 

Name and date of arrival isn't proof of anything much. The rest of us have to provide more than that. They were not official documents and not considered to be an official record. They just took advantage of having the cards. If they were ever going to be used as an official record, the info would have been transferred to a central set of records. It is not just a matter of having having arrived at some point, they also have to had to remain. The cards don't provide that.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Interestingly, despite saying in Parliament yesterday how terrible this situation was and how she will change things, it was under Theresa May (when she was at the Home Office) that the paragraph in the law that would have prevented all this was deleted :shocked:

Re: Windrush generation
 

Which paragraph was that? The date of destruction was linked to the moving of offices. That could just as easily have happened in 2000. It would have been initiated before May 2010. That sort of thing doesn't happen overnight, especially where new offices are being built.

Not sure I would get away with getting a passport simply on providing my name.

There are still plenty of people who NEVER had any landing slips because they came from elsewhere or by another method.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It would be pretty easy to solve this by granting anyone who had an arrival card as part of the Windrush programme automatic right to remain/citizenship. That was the point inviting their families over in the first place.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Yes, the Government in power at the time failed to dot the 'i's and cross the 't's.

Re: Windrush generation
 

According to Channel 5, the changes to the rules involved deleting a paragraph that would have covered these people. It was removed as it was feared that it could be abused by illegal immigrants to stay in the UK and it is claimed that it was never intended to include the Windrush generation, however, staff have been interpreting this as a way to include them.

I suppose we'll never know if the order to do this came from higher up, but if these people had never made a fuss it certainly wouldn't have harmed the Government's stats when quoting how many 'illegal immigrants' they had identified and dealt with.

As a former Government pen pusher I can say that the low hanging fruit is always picked first in order to get the stats up.

Just been reading that the children of these immigrants have also been caught up in this:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...drush-children

Re: Windrush generation
 

An old card with a name and date of arrival is not proof of anything. And as I've already pointed out, others have been affected long before 2010, because they had no landing card in the first place. Eg They came from Canada with their parents.

Re: Windrush generation
 

I'm assuming that the deleted part of the regulations enabled civil servants to take this point into account, but once it was removed there was no extra protection afforded in these instances.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Well, there's a turnup for the books! According to BBC News, at a heated exchange at PM's Questions, Theresa May responded that the destruction of the Windrush records took place under Labour's watch in 2009.

I bet JC wishes he had never asked! Egg on face for Lammy, too, after his outburst in the House of Commons!

So much for 'caring' Labour. It's now confirmed by the man himself that it was Labour that had proved to be 'callous and incompetent'!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43806710

Re: Windrush generation
 

Whole thing is a fiasco. Massive joke.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Absolutely as it has been a total debacle.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It's not a joke to those affected. I have just seen on South Today a British man born in Nigeria who because he's lost his birth certificate has been placed in the same position as the Windrush generation.That could be me because I too was born in Nigeria when it was a British colony. Luckily I still have my birth certificate. Those of us born in former colonies don't have an easy way to find lost documentation.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Fortunately, now that the government has been made aware of this problem, they have set up a task force to help these people.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Correct me if I'm just being thick here but...

The Windrush immigrants were invited over here to work therefore they would have been issued a National Insurance number which is traceable the same with tax records.

Add to that any spouse/child who sought medical services would a medical record linked to a medical number issued.

What am I missing???

Re: Windrush generation
 

All I can think of is that it sometimes poses the difficulty for some in proving that the NI number is theirs.

These days people who claim benefits are required to prove their identity and that their NINO actually belongs to them. There is a lot of NINO fraud in the system, particularly as there are more NINO's in circulation than there are people alive and living in the UK.

The most common ways to steal a NINO are to assume the identity of a child who died at birth/at a young age or the identity of someone who emigrated abroad.

Getting a job with a false NINO is much easier to do and is how some fraudsters manage to both work and sign on.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Same goes for ANYONE. I would be stuck if I hadn't found my birth certificate before I moved out. I wouldn't be able to obtain a duplicate because I had no idea which part of London I was born, or even if it was London.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It’s not about NI Numbers, it’s about eligibility to be employed - when you apply for jobs nowadays, they all have to check you have the right to work in this country, for instance by being a UK citizen, and you have to provide a passport (which gets photocopied when you go for an interview).

If you haven’t got a passport, that rules you out.

https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

Re: Windrush generation
 

I know that is the case now but that is immaterial to the subject of the thread.

NINo-Tax record-Medical no, all checkable and traceable from the 1950's.

Re: Windrush generation
 

A passport isn't a requirement for UK citizens who can prove their citizenship in other ways.
I might struggle with that bit, as my birth certificate has a different surname. My parents divorced and my mother remarried and I took my stepfather's surname. Luckily my mother arranged an official change of surname by deed poll, when I was 18.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It wouldn't have been too difficult to change your name anyway to fit any documents (and then back again if desired).

All perfectly legal unless done for fraudulent purposes:

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-...ith-the-courts

Re: Windrush generation
 

But how many people take that official step? I wouldn't have unless my mother had taken me to the commissioners of oaths office. If I hadn't done it by deed poll, I would've had no real problems until these stricter rules.

---------- Post added at 04:43 ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 ----------

All the landing cards did was provide an INITIAL date of arrival. Nothing more. No proof of identity or right of residence. That comes from elsewhere, as it does for EVERYBODY.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Both were 'callous and incompetent' IMO.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...lbert-thompson

Re: Windrush generation
 

Either way the cards would have been destroyed if Labour had been elected in 2010.

All the cards did was provide a date. They still needed to provide the same other info that the rest of us have to provide.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Quote:
The onus is on individuals to prove they were resident in the UK before 1 January 1973, the date the 1971 Immigration Act came into force. However, a key clause from 1999 legislation, which had provided longstanding Commonwealth residents with protection from enforced removal, was deleted from the 2014 Immigration Act. The government did not announce the removal of this clause, nor did it consult on the potential ramifications.


THIS is the bigger problem, nevermind LAB & CON squabbling about who did what. THIS is the issue, and it's a worrying one,. it shows a lack of due diligence and transparency on all sides.

With legislation like that slipping in, we're all farked. Where else has stuff been quietly erased...

Re: Windrush generation
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43818860

Not so clear cut as to responsibility..

Re: Windrush generation
 

So the changes only affected whether you could be deported if you couldn't prove a right to remain, not a right to NHS care, jobs, housing etc. All of those issues would remain without any of the 1999 changes(whatever they were). Is the change the one in the 1999 act that refers people NOT being a British Citizen could be deported to in 2014 just people of whatever citizenship, who hadn't got a right to remain? The Landing cards could confer automatic British Citizenship based on the 1971 act.

Re: Windrush generation
 

It seems like there are two problems with the 2014 immigration act.

One of those was the removal of protection for commonwealth citizens which it seems was already identified as an issue back in 1999.

But it's also this 'hostile environment' act which turns everyone into immigration police. This is less of a problem for clearly illegal immigrants but it turns out there is another category of people for whom the answer to their legal status is complicated. These are people who the act wasn't intended to target, who no-one has a problem with, but nonetheless do not have the full legal status and don't have the documentation required. The changes, as well as removing their protection, has forced every state entity, landlords and employers to flag them up and so they find themselves out of work, unable to access healthcare and even at risk of deportation!

It's hard to prove nationality especially if you don't have a United States style law where being born in the country makes you a national of it automatically.

---------- Post added at 09:28 ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 ----------

The 2014 act is what made these people need to get documentation without respect for long term residency i.e windrush.

Basically these people went around their entire lives thinking, rightly, they were here legally. In 2014 not only was this assumption overturned but also caught them in a situation where the NHS, landlords, employers and more would demand they prove something they have heithro not been required to prove and set very high standards to do so.

Re: Windrush generation
 

You can blame politicians but we elect them and their policies. Seems to be the result of the general xenophobia in the British public

Re: Windrush generation
 

1996 Asylum and Immigration Act
Technically employment and other restrictions were there in 1996, if not before. They needed to be able to prove a "right to remain" back then.

If the NHS, landlords, employers, etc didn't do the checks everybody would have to wait for the results of a central government check. How many weeks/months would that take?

Re: Windrush generation
 

Surely it should be about as long as it takes someone to check my Driving Licence for points or disqualifications i.e. no time at all.

Re: Windrush generation
 

So do the databases exist? Or is it mainly down to physical paperwork, eg cards in a basement. Then there is the time it takes to send and receive letters and for anything to be processed.

Re: Windrush generation
 

You do have a point here Mr K. The Conservatives were merely responding to concerns from the public that there were apparently too many illegal immigrants settling into this country.

It is a very fine line for any government to get this right, I tbink. At least TM is responding positively to this problem.

Re: Windrush generation
 

But that's the thing isn't it.

If you bring it rules to say that landlords, employers etc need to check that someone has the right to live here, then surely you need to also create a thing that can be checked?

Re: Windrush generation
 

And in order to do that you would have to get everybody to prove their status on paper. Which is what this is all about in the first place(allegedly). Strange that the issue has been around for decades potentially for ANYONE, but only now are certain people kicking up a fuss.

Re: Windrush generation
 

The issue has been around, but I think that the requirement to check up front has only happened in the last decade or so.

But again, that's my point. If you change the rules so that the checks are required, surely you'd make sure that the records are accurate and easily available before you do it, and not after?

Unless of course you don't think through the full impact of the change and are doing it for good press and an 'easy win'.

Re: Windrush generation
 

1996 Asylum and Immigration Act
I'm sure many other restrictions have been around for DECADES.

How do you build a central government database on these issues? Do you get people to prove it now or continuously collect data for the next 100 years before you can use the database.:rolleyes:

Would you like people to have access to your bank account on the basis of a name and a date(eg date of birth or date of arrival)?

Re: Windrush generation
 

If you're controlling who is and isn't allowed to be in the UK, how do you do that without a database of that information?

Re: Windrush generation
 

You use documents.

Re: Windrush generation
 

National ID Card

OMG who said that?

Re: Windrush generation
 

A lot more than that what have to be tracked and monitored. The registration of ownerships of vehicles doesn't work, so why would anything else? Eg people get parking tickets for vehicles they sold years ago.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Scrapped within 100 days in 2010.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...pping-id-cards

Re: Windrush generation
 

Our failure to do just that is a good reason why we have so many illegal immigrants in this country.

The Windrush incident would not have happened if we had a reliable database. And let's face it, this fiasco should never have happened.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Yep, this is the clause that I referred to earlier that was deleted in 2014.

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

Government departments run very slowly and are renowned for being inept. Anyone needing a job or accommodation will most likely have lost the opportunity to obtain a vacancy or a home by the time they received the documentation that they needed.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------

And doing this would bring in civil rights concerns and Human Rights Act legislation (right to a private family life clause).

Re: Windrush generation
 

2009 was before 2010.

Re: Windrush generation
 

This caught my attention How did he get a Jamaican passport? If he needed to apply for one, why not just apply for a UK one?

Re: Windrush generation
 

I think its easy to criticise this at face value but it's likely there is much much more to some of these cases.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Agreed, but that jumped out at me - we need full info, not just partial for sympathy.

Re: Windrush generation
 

The Windrush generation that came over here in the 1940s do share some of the blame, though because they should have registered themselves as they were told, but didn't.

It's their children who came with them I feel particularly sorry for.

Re: Windrush generation
 

A pretty damning indictment of the Home Office in a report done by the National Audit Office.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...e_iOSApp_Other[COLOR="Silver"]

Re: Windrush generation
 

The Government is to make up to 200 million pounds available as compensation to the people affected:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ronment-policy

Re: Windrush generation
 

Its a improvement to the terrible way some of them were treated but for some its far too late now.

Re: Windrush generation
 

The figure has now been revised upwards by Javid to 310 million pounds.

It is expected that each person will get up to £10,000, which has been critiscised as not being enough because some people lost their jobs over this.

Re: Windrush generation
 

Also pensions and homes..:mad:

Re: Windrush generation
 

And the break up of families.:(

Re: Windrush generation
 

Hot on the heels of the Government admitting that they broke data protection rules, the BBC 1 O'Clock news is reporting that Sajid Javid has announced that there will now be no limit on the amount of compensation available.