London's rising Murder Rate
 

https://news.sky.com/story/londons-y...-2018-11315362

A 17 year old girl shot dead last night and a 16 year old boy also shot in the same night in London, is fighting for his life. What the hell is going on there?

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

If this year's capital's murder rate continues at that present rate there could be more than 180 homicides in London for the first time since 2005.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

It's getting like New York used to be! Time we got a decent mayor to bring about change, as NY did.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

tbf, NY had over 2200 murders in 1990, so there’s quite a way to go to equal that (and I don’t think we will).

Whilst the number of murders in London is terrible, it’s important to focus on medium term trends, rather than a couple of recent data points - There were 116 murders in London in 2017, fewer than half New York’s annual total of 290, and in the two previous years, London’s murder rate was around a third of New York’s.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

There are many differing factors as to the capitals rising murder rate OB other to what political colour the mayor is.

Yet another stabbing in London
 

Although, there is no web page for this. Being that l live in London. Again we have MORE stabbings.

London is nearly taking over from New York as the town with the most stabbings.

And now we read in the news of not one, BUT three stabbings today in London.

TWO in Tottenham area. And ONE in Southall.

What the hell is wrong in this country, is it lack of policing, parents WHAT l ask. Is it gang culture gone wrong.

It makes me sick to the stomach for this loss of life. Is it being big to carry a knife.

Re: Yet another stabbing in London
 

It's terrible and we all need to stop it. No easy answers and everyone is to blame - the parents, the Conservatives for Council cutbacks (40% funding cutbacks since 20101) and Labour for reducing stop and search, and doubtless others.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

It's certainly not like New York used to be, let's resist the popularist impulse to talk our great capital city down.

But interesting to see Sadiq Kahn's change of heart towards stop and search earlier this year.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8152371.html

Re: Yet another stabbing in London
 

Indeed there are many reasons as to why murder and crime rates go up Andrew as its not as simple as A, B and C that is for sure.

Re: Yet another stabbing in London
 

Perhaps if police officers were not saddled with so much political correctness rubbish they could get back to the fundamentals of policing but as long as they are used as more of a speech police i won't hold my breath. Don't investigate burglary anymore as they don't have the resources but say something online someone doesn't like and suddenly there are resources for hate crime\speech units complete joke and a big reason why the public are losing faith in the police and justice system overall.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I did read the other day that for the month of March London's murder rate was actually higher than New York City!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43610936

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Click the red link for full piece.

The PC nonsense has got to stop.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

The 'Broken Windows' theory has become less respected as time went on. Around the same time New York adopted it we also saw a decline in violent crime across the Western World and an increase in economic prosperity.

It's also worth remembering that generally New York has shown a higher murder rate than London so I am not quite sure why we should be taking lessons from them based on a couple of months of data showing otherwise....

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Random stop & searches? . . . oh, tried that already :(

Tougher sentences? . . . nope, prisons are full :(

Bring back the Death penalty? . . . best of luck with that :(

err . . erm . . lets ask the US how they . . oh wait :(

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

You could also say all that about every crime.

Main step is to make prisons hellish to be in.

Start locking up the girls that associate with the gangs. That would making being in a gang a lot less appealing for the guys.

New York doesn't even make it into the top 30 for murder rates in the US.

We are not allowed to address the real problem, here and in the US. There is a common factor between the areas with high murder rates.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

And those in power will not mention it at all, whilst the police tread softly so as not to upset them.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Yes, you're right.

High rates of poverty, lack of education, and high levels of social deprivation.

Meanwhile, the facts show that London's murder rate has declined over the last decade, and has been steady recently.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/04/4.png

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

People need to calm down. One statistic and suddenly we need to completely change our policing and take advice from a city which was consistently had a higher murder rate than us. All because of two months of data.

London is pretty safe. It's safer than New York which itself is not one of the most dangerous cities in America.

I have no idea where this glee and drama comes from in trying to make out that London is a dangerous city, it seems to come from American media a lot for some reason.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Here is a Sky News report which is less hysterical: https://news.sky.com/story/in-contex...-rate-11315585

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

https://news.sky.com/story/man-in-hi...bbing-11317084

This is TONIGHT. Another one

I simple do not understand it. Is it gang culture, or is that some form of initiation ceremony with gangs that say, to be in our gang. You have to stab someone.

Something must be done to stop this. Increase stop and search. Put more police on the streets. recruit more officers.

I brought up my kids to respect each other. But now its becoming really sick

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Might be gangs. Either way I think the problem has to be solved with measures that extend beyond policing. More police on the streets is a good idea and should happen but ultimately how effective can they be? There would still be vast areas of London in which they would not be present and take a bit of time to get too. I like the idea of more patrols on motorbikes/cars though.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

As long as we are politically correct it will all sort itself out just a blip and lets not have any mention of anything but "London is safe, London is a great city" everyone knows it's a shining example of all things harmonious and happy.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

How is it being politically correct to point out that London is still a relatively safe city?

It's a call for perspective is all and not to come up with policy based on two months of data nor to pretend London or the country is a dangerous, hellish, place to live. New York, which isn't even one of the most dangerous cities in the US, has had a higher murder rate every year.

The police and government should always be looking to reduce crime and should be investigating this recent increase but the only people who are served by alarmist headlines are the media and politicians.

London is safe. London is a great city.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

A lot of the murders in the US are gun-related. If you remove gun use from the US figures, the London figure looks even worse. Either that or guns are not that responsible for murder in the US.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

A lot of murders in London are with knifes, if you take them out of the London figures then the London figure looks a lot better.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Acid attacks and stabbings rising each year and police being pressured to not make some violent offences official doesn't shout safe to me and in relation to certain sections of the public political correctness has prevented due attention and action being taken resulting in many ruined lives. The justice system in this country has degraded significantly in the last 25 years add in gutless politicians too scared to actually do anything of substance and the situation is going to continue to get worse.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Crime is down over 25 years. We are getting better at dealing with the causes of such crimes. Whilst increases are concerning and need to be addressed they don't tell the whole story which is that over the long-term London is safer than it was decades ago.

Yes, failures to stop these crimes ruin lives. Crimes ruin lives. They were ruining them 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. What we have now is that the progress in reducing those crimes has halted but London still has fewer murders than it did 10 years ago and fewer than New York despite the headlines.

What needs to happen is specific types of crimes getting additional focus and to constantly review how we tackle crime. What does help is losing our minds at every uptick in the stats and every negative headlines and proclaiming everything is in decline. It simply is not. This constant state of despair helps no-one and just seems an excuse for people to vent.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Well according to you pretty much alls good in London, i live in a town on the midlands mainline about an hour by train to London and over the last five years quite a lot of Londoners have moved here and the two main reasons most of them give for moving here are cheaper property prices and feeling safer then they did in London. Personal safety seemed to be a big issue for a lot of them and they no longer felt happy living in London or with the police either though on that they will be just as disappointed here as well.

Panicking too much is a bad way to make decisions but so is understating the problem too much and we have had enough of that in recent years and the total inability to associate certain social criminal problems to certain sections of the population on an official level is also creating problems.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

No need to be passive aggressive? I said London is 1) safe 2) safer than before 3) a great city.

I didn't say it was without problems. The rise in crime is a concern, my point is that it's not evidence of a massive decline and that over time we're getting safer. House prices are a concern. Pollution is a concern.

I don't know where you live but quite little towns tend to be safer than massive cities. London though is still safe.

Well ok, but most Londoners aren't talking around with a perpetual sense of foreboding. If you're walking though a dodgy area at night you might but that's true of anywhere.

We're pretty good at that. The collation between poverty and crime is well known and we try to stage interventions there as a society.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Every place has its problems and concerns but there always seems to be a media hyperbole sadly these days.

---------- Post added at 17:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

Exactly the same down here as there are one or two areas where one would certainly not walk through at night.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Well i no longer visit London and much as i can i try not to let my last visit colour my view of the city though I'm not sure i mange that too well and the people who have moved here confirm many of my thoughts about London. As for where i live no not very safe at all violent assaults and sexual assaults are siginificantly higher almost happening 2 or 3 times a week as opposed to the past it was a six monthly or annual problem.


and when teenagers are talking about how easy it is to ensure no police coverage while upto no good it doesn't enhance a feeling of safety. Given we're a town of 50k plus and at best only have 2 police officers covering both the town and outlying villages at night not really a surprise the local bad element take advantage.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I will throw this out there (and it said to me by an African American) .Black life's matter except to other blacks. He was real angry when he saw the story of the girl killed London.strangly he never has ,as far as l know commented about killings in Louisiana!

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

So, let's continue the discussion about London here shall we.. I remember posting this thread not that long ago about it's rising murder rate... the numbers of murders in London, have grown since the threads inception.

Has London got worse under Sadiq Khan - I sure as hell think it has! Yet the childish mayor spends far too much time getting political and is diplomatically shaming it with puerile protests, when he should be getting his own house in order.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Stabbings in London are at their highest level in six years, a 23 % rise from the previous year.

So far in 2018 there have been 1,296 stabbings in London up to the end of April, according to official statistics from the Met Police.

Overall, looking at the UK as a whole, crime has fallen in England and Wales, consistent with the general trend since the mid 90s.

Source: ONS / Met Police.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

If the murder or incident rate has gone up it's due to the behaviour of those involved and more people carrying weapons.

It has nothing at all to do with who is currently Mayor of London.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Yes it has, very much so.

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/...nyone-noticed/

Sadiq Khan is a lousy London Mayor. Why hasn’t anyone noticed?

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

What has press releases got to do with crime?

If more young folk are choosing to carry knives and other weapons, there for causing more crime I don't personally see that being Khan' s fault. He has no impact on who stabs who.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

It has a lot to bloody do with it. Especially, um seeing as the press release mentions Crime increasing under Khan and other under achievements under him, he is a crap mayor, too busy playing politics when he needs to get to grips with London!

Hopefully he will not be re-elected.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Any factual statistics or evidence of this?

So by that statement is Trump responsible for all gun crime since taking up office? No didn't think so.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I posted figures from ONS in an earlier post, can’t you read?

But more to the point... Why does everything have to be about Trump?

It is not so stop bringing him in to everything. It’s getting pathetic.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Can't I read?!?! Less of the personal attacks. Yes I can read thanks. However currently I can't really see too well due to having an eye operation a few days ago.

Trump is relevant that is why I brought him into this.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Asking if you can read is not a personal attack, it’s a genuine question, given you are asking for figures when I have already posted them. I’m also not to know when you have had eye ops either. I’m also perplexed as what Trump has to do with London still.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Apparently Sadiq Khan’s pernicious influence affects other cities as well...

Manchester knife crime up 34% in the last year.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...entre-14809242

And he’s also causing problems in Sheffield...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...crime-killings

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

The Govt. of the day, and big cuts in policing, might have some responsility. There is little chance of being caught or challenged if you carry a knife. This problem is countrywide and will be worse in cities.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

As I stated knife crime is going up in many places.

It has nothing to do with Khan.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

:tu::clap::gpoint:

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Wrong, it has every thing to do with Khan he is the bloody London Mayor, he is responsible but he is too busy trying to piss on U.K. diplomacy, he is a fecking joke!

---------- Post added at 10:19 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

One source is a lefty rag which I've told you I will never read and yet you still use it as a source. :rolleyes:

You must have missed the memo that crime in England and Wales HAS fallen.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I'm not saying Kahn is a fantastic mayor but
1) This is not North Korea - he can't ban the flying Trump nor can Theresa May.
2) Trump did severely misquote Kahn and denigrated the UK, so Kahn is not the undiplomatic one.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

No but someone can shoot the pathetic thing down, which I hope happens.

I am not saying it should be banned - but I can say I find the whole thing absolutely puerile and embarrassing for the UK. Playground politics at it's finest. :rolleyes:

It is not surprising since the announcement of the Trump baby, there is now a movement to have a Khan baby with which funding, last time I looked the other day, reaching in essence of £25,000, could be more now...yep just looked £33,000+ raised so far. Impressive.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

But not knife crime apparently!

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

That's one trend - but as a whole picture, crime in England and Wales has continued to fall, a trend since 1990.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

You cannot hold the mayor responsible for idiots carrying weapins and more people using them.

If anything it would be a policing issue, or rather lack of due to cuts in police funding by the government.

Oh so a Trump ball on is childish and not acceptable, but you support and agree with having a Khan one? Hmmm.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I support the Khan one, if the Trump one is allowed, then so should the Khan one... Pretty sure I have said the whole thing is puerile, that includes the Khan one but if one must be allowed to go ahead then so should the other, I have made that abundantly clear in other posts that the whole thing is school yard politics.

Btw, you are aware aren't you?....

....The London Mayor sets the priorities for London Policing ?

I can hold the London Mayor responsible if I so choose, who are you to say what I can or cannot do ? Huh? :rolleyes:

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

BTW I never said you can't talk about someone or something. Just chill man, no need to get so defensive or aggressive.

What's the point in discussions at all?

Well you had hold him responsible if you wish, doesn't necessarily make it totally factually accurate.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Oh it necessarily does...

...Take a look around you, rest your eyes first if you need to, but look at the dissent, a counter protest to the Trump one with tens of thousands of pounds raised to have a baby Khan floating in the Sky as well, Khan has bitten off more than he can chew - I'd say what I am saying is very accurate. London is a mess, under Sadiq Khan Mayoral leadership.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I don't see the point of this conversation? Was it just to slag off London. You had a go at Stephen for not reading your statistics but then ignored Hugh's one showing that violent crime has risen in places like Manchester as well.

How is this going to a productive discussion when you simply dismiss all other points?

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Damn right I ignored Hugh's, he sourced the guardian of all places, a lefty rag, I refuse to read, got a better, far neutral source that doesn't lean either to the left or right, I will read it, I have never said crime has not risen in Manchester but it is far less violent than London. That is not being dismissive, that is being factual and it is down to Sadiq Khan.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Violent crime has almost trebled in Manchester: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ipled-14510934

Manchester has a higher murder rate too: https://news.sky.com/story/in-contex...-rate-11315585

And Knife crime has risen massively too:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...entre-14809242

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

But in London...

Moped gangs...

Mass Acid attacks - why are people leaving London in droves Damien ?

I have already indicated violent crime is up that's one trend on the increase, in general and in the bigger picture - crime has fallen in the upper parts of England and Wales and has continued to fall since 1990. Crime is up 12% in London since Khan became the Mayor.

What's the death toll so far in London due to Stabbings and shootings ?

84 Murders in the Capital due to the above violence ?

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Because house prices are absurd and when people git their 30s and start families they've tended to move out to the subsurbs.

However London still has a net-inflow as other people take their place. London is getting more populated not less.

You said Manchester was less violent than London. It isn't. It has a murder murder rate and has had larger increases in violent crime than London.

I can't find the 12% statistic to see what they're measuring. Is it police recorded crime (which is up 13% across the UK) or the survey (which shows it going down)?

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

If the Mayor of London can't sort this, the May government should simply increase the penalties significantly. She will have to build more prisons, though.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Where will the money to build and run the prisons come from? More taxes or more borrowing?

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

The overseas aid budget, mate. :sleeping:

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

You are selectively picking on one trend of crime, overall crime has still fallen and London is not as safe as Manchester, especially given all the stabbings and shootings London has had this year, London over took New York earlier this year for the first time in history - that is bad.

I maintain that London has got worse under Sadiq Khan. He is under achieving.

https://www.quora.com/In-the-UK-how-...ared-to-London

The above link indicates Manchester is safer than London on the Peace Index.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

But does it matter? The answer is to toughen sentences and build more prisons, coupled with proper rehabilitation programmes within those prisons with appropriate measures to prevent drugs and mobile phones from being smuggled in.

Not really understanding why this is so difficult. These criminals are blighting society and need to be dealt with. They won't be, of course, because the bleeding heart liberals will stand in the way. Why are we still listening to them?

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I am talking about violent crime and murders. I don’t know what the ‘peace index’ is and besides it dates from before Khan become Mayor.

Also New York has since taken the leader over London again. It's why you should be careful taking small datasets.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I'm not sure this is the most constructive of debates as we should be proud of our great British cities which are flourishing now after some areas went through periods of decline after WW2.

However, for the sake of helping us all move forwards on this debate, I found this graphic from Sun Online. It has used Home Office figures to show the areas where people are most at risk of offences such as robbery, burglary and sex crimes. The article is from June 2017 but the age of the data is not stated.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/385025...urglary-arson/

It puts Greater Manchester 3rd (78.4) and London 4th (75.6).
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/385025...urglary-arson/

In terms of Sadiq Kahn's impact, he's only been in power for a couple of years so there's an insufficient length of time to benchmark any impact negative or positive he may have made yet so people's views will be just that.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

WW2? You are scraping the barrel a bit there, Andrew, that was 73 years ago! Christ!

All we actually need is tougher sentences, no early releases, and rehabilitation programmes in our prisons. It's not that difficult. Hardly rocket science!

Most crimes are carried out by the same old offenders.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

It's interesting how you don't apply this same assessment of time when it comes to the current occupant of the White House....

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Lol, I'm just describing the revival of our cities. Re-read.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

Lol, it's Trump supporters who take credit for the booming economy when everyone else says you need ton wait a few years for a genuine comparison!

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

I thought Trump wasn't relevant to this thread??

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Stop nitpicking Stephen, it doesn't become you. He isn't. Because the obvious thing is, this thread is about London.... :rolleyes:

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Who is nitpicking. You are always first to say he isn't relevant when someone else mentions his name.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Geez stop arguing this is getting pathetic - you read too much in to things - he is not relevant to this discussion, it's obvious it isn't, I made a fleeting comment about him and you throw what I said earlier in the day to you. Smacks of desperation to me to try and trip me up, it won't work so pack it in.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

No one is arguing.

People are just posting evidence and you are choosing to ignore them and continue to claims it's all down to Khan, when one man cannot be responsible to the rise in violent crime.

Also nobody is desperate or trying to trip anyone up.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

No evidence has been posted that I see, where I am wrong and I am not saying anyone else is wrong by the same token - Crime has fallen in England and Wales except violent crime, but overall, all other crimes has fallen.

I would not feel safe in London compared to Manchester, I know because I live in Manchester. The moped gangs, acid attacks that have happened a lot in London - there has not been many of them in Manchester and I know that for fact because I have Manchester Evening News notifications.

We are not going to agree on Sadiq Khan - I think he is a crap Mayor, who is very responsible for policing priorities, there is obvious strong resentment against him allowing the Trump baby blimp, given the massive amount of money raised in short time for a Khan baby counter protest.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

The reason that you get more attacks in London is that because it's a far bigger City. It doesn't mean that you stand more chance of being attacked in London than Manchester; the Home Office stats in The Sun I linked to suggest that it is the other way round. I think it's natural not to feel safe in an area you don't know but we shouldn't let that affect our analysis.
Kahn may or may not be a crap mayor, but I think it's daft for people to criticise Kahn for the Trump baby blimp when he couldn't democratically stop it happening. More sensible to organise a petition to give him the authority to ban such things then he could be put to the test in the event of a future Trump visit.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

The London Mayor Sadiq Khan blimp dressed in a yellow bikini takes to the sky in London today. The organisers raised over £58,000, more than double what the Trump blimp campaigners raised.

https://news.sky.com/story/sadiq-kha...skies-11487392

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Yup and he didn't ban it and even joked about it:

Why people thought he would be bothered about a blimp or why they were so bothered by a Trump blimp is beyond me.

Re: London's rising Murder Rate
 

Good suggestion.