Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

BREAKING: 17 School Students shot dead in another Mass shooting in America....

https://news.sky.com/story/twenty-hu...chool-11250721

The Gunman is said to have used an AR-15 Rifle.

The Second Amendment is a major stumbling block and Trump needs to sort this shit out, a thing I heavily disagree with him on, nobody needs to own these powerful guns, just because it is covered by the right to bear arms. :rolleyes:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

RIP.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Using Trumps logic arming teachers would be a solution to these school shootings. Crazy as it sounds it is more plausible than changing their gun laws. Sickening though that it has happened again.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Agreed. :clap:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

As this is Florida, the gunman will get the death penalty, it will be proven this is a pre-meditated mass murder attack.

There is Instagram posts of him bragging about purchasing over 100 bullets for $30. This is utter craziness.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I'm not sure what you think is crazy ?
If you are allowed guns then obviously you are going to have ammunition to go with them, most ammuntion tends to come in boxes of 50 rounds, and two boxes really isnt anything special.

As always here, its the person using the gun thats the problem, not the gun itself.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Even if they had far stricter gun controls these people will always get their hands on a gun sadly as we have very strict gun controls in the UK and that did not stop the Hungerford , Dunblane and other shootings.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It’s the easy access to a gun that’s the problem in America. The fact that when Americans go buy a newspaper or milk, they can just nip next door, to the local Gun store, to buy endless supply of guns and ammunition, to suit someone whose in the military army. Just look at that guy in the Las Vegas incident, the amount of guns he had and the type, was ridiculous.

That’s what I find crazy. I love America as people may already know. I’m not dissing the Constitutional right to bear Arms, but when that right was granted over 200 years ago, I’m sure they did not have in mind the right to several powerful semiautomatic guns.

What I’m saying is that lawful right, is outdated, sure, it their culture, let them keep a gun, hand gun or whatever but not fast re-loading semi automatic rifles, that kill so many people in a matter of minutes.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Problem is that in Florida, the gun laws are very loose - an 18-yr-old can buy an AR-15 in a private sale without a background check, and buy 100s of magazines/1000s of bullets without even as a driver's license.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

This has moved Columbine down to the 5th deadliest school shooting.

They won't do anything. They'll offer prayers. They'll say it's 'too soon' to politicise the violence. They'll move on. The NRA will make sure any pro-gun senator/congressman is well funded in the mid-terms and anyone who votes for the mildest of background checks will face a well funded opponent.

If they weren't going to do anything when 20 children aged around 6 years old were murdered they're not going to do anything now.

---------- Post added at 08:34 ---------- Previous post was at 08:28 ----------

What really highlights it all for me though was that if a Western country saw this level of death and violence at the hands of Islamic terrorists there would be far more action taken. America throws civil liberty after civil liberty away in that case. Why is it that terrorism has a far greater hold on the imagination that these shootings which, at least since 9/11, have claimed far more lives?

People say guns aren't the problem and that people are. This is true. But guns make it a lot easier. Besides if people are the problem then support tougher background checks. There is no bloody point to having politicians pontificate on television about mental illness and then making it easier for mentally ill people to purchase rifles!

Make it mandatory at federal level to have a waiting period and a background check, a registration system, ban the 'loop-hole' of having gun shows, make it illegal to have an unregistered weapon or a weapon with the serial number taken off it.

You have to have a licence and registration to drive a car. Have the same for weapons and manage this at the federal level.

Never mind though, looks like they're going to send their thoughts and players. That should do it.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Unfortunately, the right to own guns is part of the American psyche, and I don't think it will be possible to change, to trying to remove that right is never going to happen.

However, what is possible (but the politicians are too scared of the NRA's political clout and funding to do it, I think*), is for appropriate rules and regulations to be implemented - you need training, licence, and insurance for cars, so why not for guns (with the appropriate remedies in place if you break the rules, just as there is for car drivers).

And before people say laws about guns won't stop people using guns unlawfully, why don't they apply the same statement to paedophilia, drunk driving, or robbery? It is never possible to completely stop law-breakers, but it doesn't stop the government trying with other crimes.

*the NRA spent $50 million dollars supporting the Republicans in the 2016 Election, with $30 million of that supporting the Trump campaign.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1518693418

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Why do they need guns ? To protect against everyone else that has guns ?? It doesn't seem to work.

Weird country, weirder people. I attended a wedding in Pennsylvania a few years ago, I was counting the days before I could come home, it was a alcohol free area full of ultra religious Amish , really should do my research before accepting invitations !

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Have to disagree with you - it's a big country, with lots of different folks living different lifestyles; respect them, they'll respect you; one area doesn't give you a view on the whole country - that would be like visiting a small village in Cornwall (or inner-city areas in any large UK city) and using that as a stereotype for all Brits.

I've visited LA, San Francisco, San Diego (and points in between), Boston, Provincetown, and other parts of Massachusetts, New Jersey coastline and New Jersey inland (Summit), and they are miles apart culturally and socially. I love visiting New York, but also like visiting the small towns in Connecticut, but again, completely different ethos. Denigrating an entire country, and it's people, based on one visit, reflects more on you than them, imho.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Banning of Handguns came after Dunblane, how many maniacs have gone on a shooting spree with a handgun in the UK since?

Guns are available in the UK, but mainly shotguns. Either single or double barrel only, which if someone did go on a spree, like that guy in Cumbria a few years ago, really limits the number of people that could be hurt.

With a semi-or modified to full - automatic assault rifle, victims in double figures is easily achieved.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Australians would disagree...

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gu...ralia-updated/

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

As many as before Dunblane, it was a one off in the UK.

Under the rules at the time, he should not have been granted a licence to own them.

Banning handguns didnt really achieve anything except prevent legal ownership by target shooters - illegal guns are still in use daily.
Legally owned guns are almost never used in crime, because they are easy to trace, as are the owners.

Semi Automatic rifles are perfectly legal in the UK for .22 (which I assure you can kill).
Larger calibres are also allowed, just not actual semi-auto - but you could still easily kill a lot of people with them if you wanted.

Yes and there are STILL PEOPLE who are defending these guns!!

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

According to Trump today - So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

Trump in Feb 2017 - President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

GUNS SUCK....end of story. Guns equal death.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Guns are just a tool - but unfortunately, some people fetishise them...

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It appears the shooter was part of a white nationalist group

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

He didn't quietly sign it, it was well publicized at the time... and the law that had existed wasn't exactly a fantastic and water tight law and it would not have stopped the shooter yesterday, as that previous law had existed, because he would not have met the criteria to be reported to the national gun background check system.

To have met the reporting checks....

a) They would have to be receiving full disability benefits because of a mental illness and couldn't work and

b) they were unable to manage their own benefits, thus needing the help of a third party to do so.

The teenager accused of the high school shooting in Parkland and killing 17 people, it is very unlikely they would have met either of the criteria laid out to be reported under that prior rule.

Republicans are getting a lot of stick for rescinding that law but it's important to point out that, Democrat Senators, 5 of them to be precise voted with the GOP Senators to reverse it and as already pointed out, it would not have stopped Las Vegas shooting massacre or the Florida shooting yesterday.

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

But he killed white kids/Adults, I don't think it matters who he was affiliated to, he was firing indiscriminately, everybody was a target to him.

He was also said to be known to the FBI who are said to have investigated a reporting about a threat made on a Youtube video saying he wanted to become a professional school shooter.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

What if Bill Hicks misinterpreted it to, what if it's actually the right to bear arms, big furry arm covers with claws on the end.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The police are saying they haven't found a connection to that Milita: http://www.tallahassee.com/story/new...say/341751002/ the claim was made by the leader of the group

---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

We don't know if the report of him being a white nationalist is true yet. The claim was made by the leader of the group but the police aren't sure.

However these types of extremists do target people of 'their' group as well. Look at the killer of Jo Cox for example. But as I said now the police aren't convinced so.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

How sickening that members of both parties tweet saying how heartbroken they are over the shootings, yet happily take money from the NRA.
http://metro.co.uk/2018/02/15/list-u...ation-7314597/

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

So it wouldn't have caught this guy, but now it's not going to catch anyone :rolleyes:. So what was the rationale? I assume it's been replaced by something much more watertight?

Cheers

Dave

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I really don't think any law suddenly introduced today would help change a thing, there are so many millions of guns in circulation in the U.S, that no amount of gun control would help because it would require one hell of a gun amnesty to get rid of them all and you are talking thousands and thousands of tons of guns here being handed over at will and there is no guarantee such an amnesty would get them all because there would be millions of American people not willing to part with them.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

But if you can stop 18 year olds with mental health problems getting hold of a semi-automatic rifle, it would be a start...

He was

- was too young to buy beer
- was expelled from school for violence
- had mental health treatment
- had been reported to the FBI for boasting he'd shoot up a school on YouTube
- could buy an AR-15 legally

Something wrong there...

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

They could have a ban and amnesty on the type of guns they can have.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I think this sums it up.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1518773757

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

America is a big place with big wilderness and big game. If you are hunting large animals you will need something bigger than a .22 or shotgun. You don't need automatic or semi-automatics though.

It's also a place where you can go out to "the wild" and enjoy shooting weapons without endangering others and why not? Most people who do that are not a risk, they know what the weapons can do and look after them. They don't want their misuse as it just risks (further) restrictions on what they enjoy.

I expect that many in the NRA would also welcome preventing "the crazies" from being able to do this but how do you define who can and who can't have what in what circumstances or places? Then how do you enforce it? Are there unintended consequences (e.g. the police can't have guns because anyone who intentionally puts on a uniform and goes into certain areas must be "crazy")?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

All you need for hunting is a Shotgun, Bolt Action rifle, or a bow/crossbow.

AR-15s aren't hunting rifles, unless you want to make a mess of the animal - they are only 5.56mm/.22 calibre bullets.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Have you never had mince .

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Nope: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida...inkId=48175634

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Mince - "meat cut up into very small pieces".

Not "meat contaminated by bone, skin, internal organ fragments, and other contaminants", which is what happens when something alive is shot multiple times.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I think it's a mistake to generalize based on any city or town. Actually it's a mistake to generalize at all. Even within individual areas (be they larger towns, cities or the countryside), people aren't necessarily the same. I come from London. People in my area are nothing like those from other areas (say Hackney, or Lewisham). Obviously some are, but most aren't.

Regarding the shooting, I think the US does need to toughen up it's gun laws. I'd like to see them implement similar gun restrictions to those we have here (which do a good job of restricting mass shootings but do allow those who legitimately need them access to guns). I can accept that is not going to happen quickly.

They can start by restricting those with known mental problems from owning guns, which is one bit of Obama-era legislation Trump repealed without replacing.

Various Republicans have cited the fact that even countries that have gun bans do have the odd mass shooting means gun bans don't work. They conveniently neglect to mention that while most countries have the odd terrorist incident or other mass shooting, countries with gun bans tend to have them a lot less frequently than those without. Note: I consider mass shootings to be terrorist incidents, but to Trump at least the difference appears to be the colour of the shooter.

I've noticed that the standard reaction of the country is to argue whether guns laws would work or not, then the Republicans state that it's too soon to bring up the Gun laws again, and that we should all pray for the victims because apparently that's what God wants. Then, after a few days shouting, it's all forgotten only to start again after the next shooting. Which, based on the recent stats, is likely to be in a few days.

Looking at it logically, I would suggest that whatever the Americans are doing to combat mass shooting is not working. Quite the opposite, seeing as the frequency of mass shooting is increasing. I would also suggest that while I am agnostic, assuming God exists, He wouldn't want us to pray for the victims, but would want us not to create more.

Still what can we expect from a country that has apparently decided Gun ownership is a right, while decent healthcare is a privilege?

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

In all likelihood, any gun ban is likely to take decades to take effect, because, as you say, there are a lot of guns in the US.

Personally, I think any Gun ban needs to be paired up with a concerted effort to persuade people to give up guns. There are various methods they could use to do this ranging from education, TV ads etc through to relatively minor actions to make it inconvenient to own or carry guns, and easier to give them up.

Any restrictions, once they start working, will cause prices of the existing guns to rise, which will mean fewer people will be able to afford guns, legal or not.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43088644
Strange - he usually likes a photo opportunity :shrug:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I thought The Onion (a satirical online magazine) put it best.

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-p...s-r-1823016659

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

BREAKING: Florida Governor Rick Scott has called on FBI Director Christopher Wray to resign after his agency failed to act on a tip off, made to them a month ago.

https://news.sky.com/story/fbi-admit...-cruz-11253384

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Did he call on the President to resign too ?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Why should Wray resign for not knowing about information that didn’t get forwarded to tho FBI Miami field office?

The FBI must get thousands of tips every week - someone made a decision based on the info they had at the time; that decision should be investigated, and then we should be talking about next steps; anything else is just looking for a scapegoat.

Should Governor Scott resign, as Federal law states you have to be 21 to by a semi-automatic rifle, but in Florida it’s 18?

btw, it’s never mentioned, but all those wounded in this attack (and all previous attacks) will receive bills for the emergency care they received, and any ongoing medical care. Funny how it’s a right to own a gun that can kill and wound people, but not a right to get the medical care, without being impoverished, that results from that right...

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Does it say so in the news link ?

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

Surely the Ammo shop that sold the weapon(s) to a minor should be shut down.... and possibly face prosecution...

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Just headline grabbing nonsense.

I'm quite sure they get tons of "top offs" and could not possibly "act" on every one of them.

For that matter what does he mean by "act on it" ?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

And maybe the Republicans should review who they take cash from to support their aspirations.

The NRA spent $14.5 million in campaign ads for Republicans
The NRA spent $34.5 million in ads against Democrats

Trump last year -Donald Trump marked his 99th day as US president by basking in the noisy adulation of his base and making a pledge to the National Rifle Association: “You came through for me and I am going to come through for you.”

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

And his base will appreciate that being very strong 2nd Amendment Supporters that they are. You are not revealing anything that shocking, Trump is a very prolific 2A supporter, as are most of the GOP, but when Democrats were in power, why didn’t they make changes especially after the Columbine massacre?

For two straight years when Obama was President, Democrats held a healthy majority in the House and a 55 Seat hold in the Senate, more than what Trump and the GOP hold today, why didn’t they put changes to gun laws when they held all three houses?

By the time Sandy Hook school Massacre took place in 2012, the Democrats had suffered heavy losses in the 2010 Midterms. Republicans re-gaining a majority in the House of Representatives, they also gained 6 seats in the Senate.

It doesn’t matter what we say here. Nothing is going to dramatically change. I see chatter about bills being put forward about age restrictions, but no actual change to cease the sale of dangerous guns. America is past the point of no return when it comes to gun control. They have more guns in America than people and as already pointed out, how the hell are law enforcement going to get people parting with their guns willingly, in a very very very very large gun amnesty?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

No idea why you have to bring up the past, my post is pointing out that Trump and co are supported by the NRA and he has made numerous comments of support. So every time there is an atrocity, he has blood on his hands.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

He also made it easier for the mentally ill to get their hands on guns, it doesn't matter if the law he scrapped wasn't great, it was better than nothing and if it was that bad then change it don't scrap it, still not to worry he's praying for the victims, that'll be of great comfort to their loved ones I'm sure

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

What is there to say? It's all been said before.:(

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I'm pleasantly surprised that - up to now - nobody has been blaming the influence of shooter style gaming.
I recall it used to get a right good slating at one time, and was 'allegedly' the reason behind many acts of violence.

Mind you, I also remember being told that playing a Black Sabbath LP backwards would lead me into satanic rituals :erm:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Because the past is relevant, that’s why. :rolleyes:

Then in that case all past Presidents have as well. There has been such massacres and atrocities under them, when they and congress should have acted but didn’t, but hey ho, carry on bashing Trump because I get that you can’t stand him. But stop being a hypocrite while doing it.

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

The law actually wasn’t that great at all and better than nothing. I’ve said earlier on, the law would not have stopped the Florida shooter.

There is Two main criteria but there is a handful of wide ranging mental health conditions, some that does not mean a person lacks capacity. Such a law could be considered as discriminatory and infringing on constitutional rights and civil liberties. The right to bear arms.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Mick, you are missing my point due to your love of trump. Of course all past presidents could have done something to change the law but my point is that the republicans have been heavily financially supported by the NRA for a long time and they should take a long hard looks at themselves when incidents like this occur.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Your point and many others in this thread as well.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Rubbish.

I have not missed any point. Nor is this anything to do with a ridiculous assertion of a love for Trump. I said at the start of this thread if people bothered to open their eyes, that I do not supports Trump views on gun ownership.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I agree with this.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1518888285

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

We get that. But the argument falls inevitably back on the Constitutional right in the form of the 2nd Amendment.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Which also states "As part of a well regulated militia" not just armed civilians.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It’s an Amendment - it can be repealed.

The Constitution is the basis, but allowed for Amendments, which can be repealed.

Meanwhile, Nige hits a new low... The Russia Investigation Team is based in New York and Washington, not in Miami. Two separate divisions within the agency handling completely different areas of criminal law. It’s like complaining the Home Office failed to stop the Hungerford shootings because it was too focused on countering Soviet espionage.

Also, "False"? Excellent timing, saying that at the exact same time Mueller indicted 13 Russians, 1 American, and 3 organisations.

---------- Post added at 20:23 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

[/COLOR]Interestingly enough, the US passed the Militia Act of 1903, which designated the militia as two groups: the Unorganized Militia, which included all able-bodied men between ages 17 and 45, and the Organized Militia, which included state militia (National Guard) units receiving federal support.

Unorganized doesn’t sound like well-regulated...

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The NRA have been very good at pulling the wool over people's eyes. Amendment means change and changes can be made to changes. And as others have pointed out, the right bear arms is as part of a militia.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Why bring Nigel Farage in to this topic?.

Totally irrelevant, I never brought him up , why did you feel the need to, together with your own personal response to him?

If you feel that aggrieved... Go respond to him on Twitter, not here. Nobody else brought him up.

For the record, I don’t need a lecture on how Amendments and the U.S Constitution works either. Any change would still take some serious undoing.

Nobody has still answered how you remove hundreds of millions of guns out of circulation, should it ever come the day guns do get outlawed. It will take some doing though.

Shame on you
 

Good speech from Florida student.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-u...s-shame-on-you

Re: Shame on you
 

It won’t change anything sadly. Been here many times before.

Re: Shame on you
 

The President could do something of he really wanted and wasn't too obsessed with himself.

Re: Shame on you
 

Not up to the President to legislate, that’s Congresses job. The President signs passed legislation in to law.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Poweful message from the Boston Globe front page:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/8.jpg

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The handgun ban (as it presently stands) was, imo, a strange knee jerk response to Dunblane.
You ask "how many maniacs have gone on a shooting spree with a handgun in the UK since?" as if the handgun ban had something to do with it but consider this: you can presently still buy a semi-automatic rifle and stick a 30 round mag into it. You can also possess a few thousand rounds of ammunition and as many 30 round mags as you want. Plenty to be getting on with for a killing spree if you were so inclined.
I therefore suspect that the lack of incidents in the UK is down to the difficulty in getting a gun license and stringent controls over owning guns. Nothing to do with banning handguns.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Exactly!
fyi, The Southern Gun Co. make a mod for their .223 caliber that all but turns it into a semi-auto.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Do you not need a licence and to register the rifle with the police though?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Because Farage mentioned the Florida shooting?

---------- Post added at 20:49 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

Trump has signed nearly 60 Executive Orders, which set Government Policy and have the power of law.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I don't get why Trump is so beholden to the NRA given his supposed wealth. $30m NRA donation should be small change to him.

Re: Shame on you
 

So could of Obama?

Re: Shame on you
 

He did what he could with executive actions. He was stopped going further by the Republicans who controlled the house. They love their guns and shooting things.

Trump has done nothing, except pass a law making it easier for people with mental illness to buy guns. He's offered prayers though, so that's all good :erm:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It my have been a bit Knee Jerk. But it did remove a lot of the element of concealment. You stuff a hand gun in your pocket, down the back of you trousers etc, and get into places....like a school....without raising any alarm.

However, if some one is seen walking to a school or just along the street with a rifle/shotgun is going to raise alarm. Other than that agree on your points.

---------- Post added at 21:57 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------

Pretty sure at some point he controlled both houses with a decent majority?

Re: Shame on you
 

Is that a reason to press the pause button on progress? :confused:

I'm pretty sure they great inventors, sports people, explorers, scientists, artists and entrepreneurs of this world don't say I won't do it because my predecessors didn't!

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

That's why I mentioned the license :D

Re: Shame on you
 

Not at all, just pointing out that trump is a republican so is less inclined to push for gun control and has been in the job for 12 months is as usual being slated by everyone for not doing enough.

Yet, Saint Obama of Barack, a democrat, had two terms, during some of which which he had a majority in both houses, and for a short period even had a super majority, did pretty much naff all.

https://www.thoughtco.com/obama-gun-...ngress-3367595

That's all I'm pointing out.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I thought that someone would say that. I've just gone upstairs and measured my guns at their shortest lengths and they come to 70cm for my rifle with it's stock folded and and 65 cm my pistol as is.
If I wanted to, I could very easily remove my pistols mandatory 'coathanger' from it's grip to reduce it to 40cm (which is illegal and would land me in jail if found out) if i was inclined to in order to conceal it.
edit: It's just occurred to me that I could equally easily remove the 'long barrel' from the pistol and thereby shorten it another 20cm as well. The thing is that, in the UK, it is fiddly to obtain a gun license and the guns that the license allows you are restricted to certain lengths and/or calibers. If, however, you decided to chuck it all away and go all 'allah Akbar', you could very easily do it.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

SGC actually do Lever Release rifles, which are like semi auto, but you have to release the bolt again after each shot by flicking a lever.
That makes things slightly slower than just having to pull the trigger, as each shot requires two actions, but I can still rattle shots off pretty quick if necessary.

Handguns btw are not banned as such, they just have to follow certain rules.
The barrel must be 30cm, and the overall length 60cm, which means they look like they have a silencer fitted, and have a weird extension off the hand grip.

You can buy semi auto .22 handguns, as well as .357 & .45 revolvers.
The whole point of the changes was to make it hard to conceal them, not ban them.

The reason we dont have these shootings in the UK is becasue you have to pass much more stringent checks to own guns, not because you cannot own them.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

They focused their attention on healthcare for those two years. Plus even a Democratic house is still difficult to get gun control though. You only have so much political capital to spend.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The reason that we have so few rampages is that the legally owned guns are only obtained after someone has been a probationary member of a gun club for 3-6 months. This means that the probationer has been sat round a table with existing club members for that long, interacting and talking before they are eligible to apply for a license. Then a policeman comes round to their house and has a chat with them about why they want a gun or guns and how they are going to secure them and what will happen if those guns aren't properly secured :D (bad things)

---------- Post added at 22:30 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------

Yep. See above :)

And that, imo, is how the USA should go....

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Completely missed that! Sorry.:dunce:

They won't though. Guns are far more ingrained in their psyche than they ever were here. The amount of control and regulation suggested is beyond what even the left of the Democratic Party could hope to achieve.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

And................

The point I was making is that if ever there was a chance to bring in meaningful gun control laws, it was then.

No point having a go at trump now.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Major policy shifts in an existing law, still require the legislative branch and changes to gun laws would require a congressional approach, otherwise your statement above, implies and renders the legislative branch redundant, grants the presidency, dictatorial powers, which is almost certainly not the case.

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:14 ----------

Not just Republicans. Several Democratic Senators ALSO voted with Republicans against new gun control legislation. Sorry if facts, yet again, get in the way of your incorrect assertions and narrative. :rolleyes:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

But you need a supermajority (60) for a lot of things, as Trump has found out.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Well there is. Just like you can say Clinton didn't do enough, Bush didn't do enough, Obama didn't go enough and Trump isn't doing enough. Trump is fact seems quite close to the NRA.

When Trump goes we can have a go at the next President who'll also not do enough because they never will.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

President Barack Obama also found that out but ignored it and implemented DACA regardless. Which many felt at the time was a blatant abuse of executive power.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

You mean unlike the Trump Executive Orders that have been stayed by the Courts?

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

And partially overturned by the Supreme Court.

You are making my point for me, that Presidents cannot act alone Hugh. So thanks for finally admitting a President cannot do stuff on his own.

It's important to note that Obama tried to extend the DACA program to include Adults, several States sued and an injunction was put in to place to block it. It was later contested in the Supreme Court and they kept the injunction in place. So Trump is not the only President to have his authority challenged, same with Bill Clinton, he had one of his Executive Orders invalidated by a Federal Appeals Court.

So going back to Trump doing something about Guns, he needs Congress to act, he cannot do it alone, otherwise any future President can come in and just revert a prior Executive Order.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

As I stated earlier he did have a Super Majority from From September 24, 2009 through February 4, 2010

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

You are more than welcome - does that mean the other 50+ Executive Orders Trumplethinskin has signed, without Congressional sign-off or Judicial challenge, don’t count?

Funny how with one President it’s a "blatant abuse of executive power.", but with another, it’s not...

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I’ve never brought up issues with Trump’s Executives Orders or whether any of them were over stepping his constitutional authority, if they do that’s for Congress or Supreme Court to contest and or indeed the Judicial system, which some lower district courts have and then Supreme Court has stepped in and partially removed the lower courts injunction, while it reviews the case in full.

We’re on the same page yeah, regarding balance of power?

I made a point that the President cannot act alone when it comes to gun control, you’re the one who came at me saying that a President Executive Orders carry legal weight, and I’m saying they do, but I’m saying they can be challenged quite easily because his authority is not legislative. So something like gun control needs to be properly legislated, so a future president comes along and and thinks, I’m scrapping that order, with a new order.

If President Obama had the Paris Climate Accord deal passed through Congress and it became law, Trump would not have been able to pull out of it when he did.

And just to be really pedantic... President Obama’s Action regarding DACA, was not an Executive Order, DACA was established by a Memorandum from the Secretary of Homeland Security. It’s why it’s establishment is said to be unconstitutional, because it’s a suspension of a law and the Presidents fundamental role as it states in the Constitution, is to faithfully execute the law. As per Section 3, Clause 5. This clause prevents a president from suspending the enforcement of any written law, which is basically what that DACA Memorandum instructs. Obama was abusing his powers, DACA is not Constitutional, it’s as simple as that.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

No court has ever said that DACA is not constitutional - it's as simple as that.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...onstitutional/

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I doubt anyone would accuse you of that. :D

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:09 ----------

Ray of hope?
https://www.ft.com/content/a6730f7e-...c-25c814761640

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

That's not really changing the law, just 'improving' the sharing of information in the current system I think.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

In your case, no it isn't. Plenty of lawmakers have and they are correct, it is unconstitutional. I have explained why and I stand by it.

And as already stated, several States sued when Obama tried to extend the DACA program to include Adults. An injunction was put in place and it then went to the Supreme Court who kept the injunction in place.

If the current DACA program is extended beyond March 5th, several lawsuits, from several States, will go ahead.

President Obama said himself, "I am not king. I can't do these things just by myself."

He also said... "respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that's just not the case."

In 2011, Obama acknowledged that he couldn't "just bypass Congress and change the (immigration) law himself. ... saying... "That's not how a democracy works."

But to hell with that, he put DACA in place anyway, to provide pseudo-legal status to illegal immigrants brought to the U.S. as children, including as teenagers. They were given work permits and were entitled to social security benefits.

He did this despite the fact Congress specifically rejected bills to provide such benefits, so however much you want to argue the toss on this, Obama abused his executive power.

So again, despite all this and my whole point since you started this issue of saying the President's EO's have a legal standing. Trump cannot invoke gun laws on his own without some serious legal challenges in the future. If it's legislated through congress, then no-one can challenge it, unless it's repealed by Congress, it's Constitutional, the same applies to DACA.

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

I'm curious why people in the UK care so much about what is (or is not) legal in the US.

I seem to see more arguments on the forum about another country, and its leadership, than about our own :confused:

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

It's a valid question... Perhaps we still have a connection to what was the British Colonies (Now U.S.A since 1776), even after all this time. :)

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

The recent terrible shooting seems to have generated more protests than others.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8220381.html

Re: Florida Shooting: 17 Students Shot dead in another Mass Shooting in the U.S
 

Dinesh D’Souza hits a new low...

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1519200009