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4 upstream channel bonding - post here
As the title says, post here if you have 4 upstream channels bonded on your modem, alongside where in the country you are and upstream stats if you can.
It's a project in progress on the VM network so it'd be interesting to see just where they are. It's a precursor to higher upstream speeds having the 4 channel bonding done. |
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4 x 16QAM, Area20 Wirral
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Still only two here (Nottingham).
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Only two here as well. Surrey. I'm on VIVID 350 as well so they are not giving higher speed customers priority.
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Still 2 here.
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I was rather hoping people with 4 channel bonding would post, not people who are still not on it, and the first post makes clear what I had in mind.
This was a thread modeled after the ones here. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/comcast Looks like it's a bit late for that. Oh well. :) |
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Can someone explain the benefits of moving to 4 upstream channels (from 2)? Many thanks!
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Manchester ( Baguley) area 20.
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4 bonded upstreams wolverhampton
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The reason I asked was when I was researching this to better understand things, I came across this on the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS Quote:
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Though having more channels doesn't mean you'll get more speed, it does mean Virgin can push more speed down the line. |
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RG41
Upstream bonded channels Channel ID Frequency(Hz) Mode Power (dBmV) Modulation Channel Bandwidth(Hz) Symbol Rate (ksps) 6 39400000 ATDMA 45.3 64 qam 6400000 5120 8 25800000 ATDMA 45.3 16 qam 6400000 5120 7 32600000 ATDMA 45.3 64 qam 6400000 5120 5 46200000 ATDMA 45.3 64 qam 6400000 5120 When I use the SNMP browser call on the Hub 3, my mini-slot size has dropped from 4 to 2. ---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ---------- Quote:
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https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/08/10.png I was just curious what speeds 2 channels could actually support in the (VM) real world when the Wikipedia maximum is over 50Mbps |
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it is all depends on the modulation of the upstreams. Some are still QAM16 and some are QAM64. Those that are QAM64 have a 50% increase on throughput vs QAM16
http://www.radio-electronics.com/inf...qam-256qam.php |
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Or, as Igni has mooted (not in his words though), has Cisco increased simultaneity at the CMTS so as to allow smaller transmit windows and thus allow more users to to get onto the upstream with smaller amounts of data that won't get too much contention at the CMTS. Something like that? |
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they must have done something because they wouldn't have spent all that time trying to get the upstreams up to qam64 if it wasn't going to provide some benefit to them (you know what VM are like).
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And then they reduce the Mini-slot size from 4 to 2. Thinking deeper, and again with an eye to what Igni said, they may be using something more powerful at the Cisco CMTS end by way of FEC correction; like the DOCSIS 3.1 FEC handling regime. Whether or not that sits well with DOCSIS 2 or DOCSIS 3, I don't know. But it is the only thing I can think of that increases upstream efficiency. Igni will no doubt put me right on this. |
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yeah, I just can't wait for docsis 3.1 though. I had a quick read of the wiki article and it is going to be like jumping to warp speed.
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And all I want is more than 20 up for once.
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They are rolling it out like that, though using 3.0 upload channels for the foreseeable. Still plenty of life in 3.0 as a whole so no rush.
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We had a power cut yesterday for an hour just after midday but it took til after eight for the boxes to reconnect but now I have 4 upstreams bonded on the SH1 but only at QAM16:
Upstream US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 Channel ID 68 65 66 67 Frequency (Hz) 53700000 Hz 45800000 Hz 35800000 Hz 27400000 Hz Ranging Status Success Success Success Success Modulation QAM16 QAM16 QAM16 QAM16 Symbol Rate (Sym/sec) 5120000 5120000 5120000 5120000 Mini-Slot Size 128 64 128 128 Power Level (dBmV) 47.0 dBmV 46.0 dBmV 46.8 dBmV 46.8 dBmV T1 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T3 Timeouts 2 2 2 2 T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 Power levels up and down are nicely within spec. :) |
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They've all moved up to QAM64 now. :)
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I've had four upstream channels for at least seven months now, but they are all still on QAM16
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/05/2.png |
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if you get full speed and there aren't any congestion issues them don't worry about it. Moving all 4 channels to qam64 only gives you a 50% bandwidth increase.
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I don't usually check my network status, but after reading this thread I thought I would.When I checked it yesterday, I only had one upstream channel, I did a reboot and found I now have 4 :).Living in the Blackburn area.
Upstream Channels Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate Locked 4 25800000 Hz ATDMA 49.5 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec Locked 2 39400000 Hz ATDMA 49.5 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec Locked 1 46200000 Hz ATDMA 48.5 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec Locked 3 32600000 Hz ATDMA 49.3 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec |
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You should never have 1 upstream and everyone should be on a minimum of 2. I was going to put it down to you misreading the stats but i think it has got something to do with your power levels. If they creep above you are going to start having problems and would explain why you can only only see 1 channel. Keep your eye on it.
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Thanks for that GM, and I will keep an eye on them.
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If the power levels get too high it becomes unstable, you will drop your connection while the interface resets that will be when you only lock onto one upstream because the levels are out whack. Either that or it is so bad you wont lock onto any at all at which point it will start all over again. Are you getting any t3 or t4 timeouts?
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Is it possible for the upstream to fluctuate between 1 & 4 channels? I have googled what you mentioned regarding t3 and t4 timeouts, but still none the wiser. I don't have any problems with my broadband speeds or connection problems as far as I know.I have noticed my power levels are slightly higher than yesterday.
Upstream Channels Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate Locked 4 25800000 Hz ATDMA 49.8 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec Locked 2 39400000 Hz ATDMA 50.0 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec Locked 1 46200000 Hz ATDMA 48.5 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec Locked 3 32600000 Hz ATDMA 49.3 dBmV 64QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec |
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Has it really been 15 years since only 1 upstream? Surely that is not right?
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I know you weren't trying to confuse me, I'm just a little thick:) I am on shub 2, the only info I found on time outs was this
Modem Initialisation Stage Status Downstream Acquisition Locked Primary Frequency 266750000 Hz DHCP Done TFTP Done Time Of Day 18:36:07 BST Security BPI+ Counters T1,T2,T3,T4,Sync,Resets 000,000,000,000,000,000 |
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I was thinking it was like 5years since we went to 2 upstreams but I can't find any info on it, just shocked it has been that many years since we all went to 2.
Anyone know for sure? |
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I did lose my connection last week for a minute or so, I just put it down to my VPN playing up. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my queries, much appreciated.
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np, if you power levels go above 50 or you start experiencing drop outs you need to give VM a ring on 150 and a tech to come out and fix it. As an fyi we haven't discussed your downstream power levels but anything between -7 and +7 is ok and they want to be as close to 0 as possible. Around 0 and +3 is awesome.
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My downstream channels are averaging around +2.3 so no problem there. Upstream seems to be consistent at between 49.5 for 3 channels with one at 50, so I will keep an eye on these and for drop outs.
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If you've not already done it set up a BQM monitor at thinkbroadband. If you start seeing packet loss or increasing latency then it's onto VM to get it fixed.
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Na that's fine. You dont need to be anal about checking the graph but if you think your connection is playing up or you start getting random disconnects then you need to check the graph. You are looking for fat red lines top to bottom.
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Thank you, GM.
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Work being done in my area today (Northants - Kettering) Area 31
Gone from 2 to 4 up streams. US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 Channel ID 89 92 91 90 Frequency (Hz) 46200000 25800000 32600000 39400000 Ranging Status Success Success Success Success Modulation 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM Symbol Rate (Sym/sec) 5120000 5120000 5120000 5120000 Mini-Slot Size 4 2 2 4 Power Level (dBmV) 46.21 43.75 44.75 45.75 |
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Four bonded here in Derby
Upstream bonded channels Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID 1 39400000 45.8 5120 16 qam 83 2 32600000 45.3 5120 16 qam 84 3 46200000 45.8 5120 16 qam 82 4 53700000 46.8 5120 16 qam 81 |
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US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 Channel ID 91 92 90 89 Frequency (Hz) 32600000 25800000 39400000 46200000 Ranging Status Success Success Success Success Modulation 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM Symbol Rate (Sym/sec) 5120000 5120000 5120000 5120000 Mini-Slot Size 2 2 4 4 Power Level (dBmV) 43.75 42.75 44.75 45.00 T1 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T3 Timeouts 2 0 0 0 T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/05/5.png https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broad...Broadband Ping |
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We also now have 4 upstream channels is Torbay ive no idea when they appeared though
Channel Frequency (Hz) Power (dBmV) Symbol Rate (ksps) Modulation Channel ID 1 25800000 45.8 5120 64 qam 36 2 32600000 47 5120 64 qam 35 3 39400000 47.8 5120 64 qam 34 4 46200000 47.5 5120 64 qam 33 |
Re: 4 upstream channel bonding - post here
Upstream Channels
Lock Status Channel ID Frequency Modulation Tx Power Mode Channel Bandwidth Symbol Rate Locked 78 39400000 Hz ATDMA 44.5 dBmV 16QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec Locked 77 46200000 Hz ATDMA 45.0 dBmV 16QAM 6400000 Hz 5120 Ksym/sec NotLocked 0 0 Hz 0 dBmV 0 Ksym/sec NotLocked 0 0 Hz 0 dBmV 0 Ksym/sec Still 2 upstream channels in Newton Abbot... ---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 ---------- US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 Channel ID 78 80 79 77 Frequency (Hz) 39400000 25800000 32600000 46200000 Ranging Status Success Success Success Success Modulation 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM Symbol Rate (Sym/sec) 5120000 5120000 5120000 5120000 Mini-Slot Size 2 2 2 2 Power Level (dBmV) 44.75 42.25 43.00 45.00 Rebooted and got 4. All on 16QAM though... |
Re: 4 upstream channel bonding - post here
don't worry about it, qam64 is only 50% faster than qam16 so you aren't missing out on much, especially if you haven't got any speed probs anyway.
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In Heckmondwide.
US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 Channel ID 85 87 86 88 Frequency (Hz) 46200000 32600000 39400000 25800000 Ranging Status Success Success Success Success Modulation 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM 16QAM Symbol Rate (Sym/sec) 5120000 5120000 5120000 5120000 Mini-Slot Size 2 2 2 2 Power Level (dBmV) 41.00 40.50 41.50 39.25 T1 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T3 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 |
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4 is better than 2. QAM64 better than QAM16.
It allows the system to better balance / share the available capacity. |
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Is there any chance of getting QAM64 or do this not get upgraded readily by VM? And what does that do, provide faster speeds or does it help with latency? |
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Has anyone noticed an actual improvement in service when going from 3-4 upstreams?
Still on 3 but never had an issue with congestion, suspect that's why we're still on 3 :D https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/05/11.png |
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The level of modulation used is a result of the hub negotiating the connection to the cabinet. If the signal to noise ratio is good enough the connection will automatically go to QAM64.
Higher modulation means more throughput and you're more likely to get your provisioned speed. Don't think it improves latency though. |
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Yes still on 2 upstreams in cb24, I am along way from the cabinet so I guess that is why I never see qam64.
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The only thing I've noticed is that my graph went from this:
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/05/12.png To this: https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/05/13.png |
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I now have 4 bonded upstreams since rebooting my hub yesterday (St Helens area).
1 32600000 36.3 5120 16 qam 3 2 53700000 37.8 5120 64 qam 5 3 25800000 36.3 5120 16 qam 4 4 39400000 37.8 5120 16 qam 2 Only 537 is 64QAM but I've been told that's normal for my area? |
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I thought so still a welcome surprise just getting 4 up channels randomly.
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4x QAM64 upstream channels on my Dad’s connection now. On Telf14.
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I'm on 4 x QAM64 upstream channels in Brighton area 20
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I am not on 4 yet but have just gone to 2 qam64s for the first time ever so maybe they're upto something here too.
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SM4 area (fed from New Malden) Changed from 2 x 64QAM upstream channels to 3 x 64QAM upstream channels today. Was notified of config work as this is a business service, the work was listed as New Malden D3 config 8.
Surprised it didn't go right to 4 as in other areas. |
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Here in Leeds went from 2 QAM16 to 4 QAM16.
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Been getting terrible download speeds the last day or so, so just checked the modem and I've got four upstream channels too. I'd rather have the faster downloads back! Getting a lot of T3 timeouts whatever that is.
East London. |
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Still 3 here but not had any issues up or down, which I guess is why we're still on 3!
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Four channels appeared in the last few days, Coventry CV3. Looking at my TBB quality graph it seems teh conversion was done in the small hours of 7th. June.
No improvement in TBB graph quality. |
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Here's my downstream Channels 1 - 10 are lower - around 3 or 4 dBmv |
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There isn't really a magic upstream number. The way that DOCSIS works is that the upstream power level is never higher than is necessary for the CMTS and the Hub to communicate with each other as determined by the keep-alive traffic.
In Roughie's case, he is close to the cabinet and downstream power levels are therefore high (and upstream low). Although the lower frequency channels are knocking on 10 dBmv, the hot weather will decrease that as the metal expands. That said, it would do no harm to put an attenuator to the back of the hub - say 6 dB. |
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It could do with further attenuation just to be sure of staying within bounds.
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SO16 - had an outage yesterday and it's come back on with 4 upstreams:
Upstream US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 2.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 Channel ID 40 41 39 38 Frequency (Hz) 25800000 53700000 32600000 39400000 Ranging Status Success Success Success Success Modulation 64QAM 64QAM 64QAM 64QAM Symbol Rate 5120000 5120000 5120000 5120000 (Sym/sec) Mini-Slot Size 2 2 2 2 Power Level 45.50 46.25 45.75 46.25 (dBmV) T1 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T3 Timeouts 1 0 0 0 T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 Superhub 2AC Paul |
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I had an outage this morning and am now on 4xQAM64.
DS SNR is a bit low tho. Quote:
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Now back to 2x qam64. I do have concern about my DS SNR as it is around 31-35 and i get alot of pre rs errors and a few post errors on the odd channel now and then, but it doesn't seem to affect my internet but i do have an issue where a few channels on TV i can't get or break up! So for all the installers here what are my options for fixing the TV channels and bumping up my DS SNR if i am already on the top tap, got a new thicker cable and an HDU-200 installed? |
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What's all this then? Suddenly I have a slot for information on time-outs. This wasn't there until 2 days ago. There was an overnight reboot of SH3 and an instant improvement in the TBB quality graph.
Software version : 9.1.116.608 |
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It is one of the firmware improvements.
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It's the Intel cpu "fix" that appears to prioritise ICMP so graphs look better :)
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Noticed some red on the TBB yesterday and I rebooted when I got home.
We are now on 4 x 16QAM upstreams. BT27 area. |
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