United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I am absolutely appalled at the treatment of this Asian Doctor who was randomly selected with 3 other passengers, when the airline overbooked the flight. They tried to get some volunteers to fly the day after, after first offering $400, no one volunteered, so they doubled it to $800 and no passengers still volunteered so a manager had apparently said a computer would randomly select 4 people.

Two people who had been selected initially, got off the plane without protest but the doctor passenger refused saying he needed to be back home as he had patients booked to see him the next day.

In a video of the incident that has emerged, you can see security personnel violently remove him. He ended up blooded and bruised.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39554421

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

They completely assaulted him! As well as United being in trouble someone needs to look into the actions of the security officers.

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

Video of the guy still on the plane here, bloody and clearly very traumatised. Warning the video shows those things, it's not nice: https://twitter.com/kaylyn_davis/sta...71574385307648

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Bottom line, it should not be possible to overbook passengers. Once the plane is full no more bookings should be accepted.

If a passenger doesn't turn up then it is a bonus for the airline as they can then sell on the seat which has already been paid for.

I know of several friends that have been the victim of overbooking.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Non justifiable force, this is not how you deal with someone that won't move. If I could get people out of doors without knocking them unconscious then these three can surely move one man off a plane. Just pure aggression, no form of proper restraint shown at all, no attempt to use reasonable force (known techniques) to move him, just plainly and clearly dragged him without mentioning what's occurring before that.

All three should be arrested on Assault charges, United whilst not being entirely to blame here will likely end up settling in the next few days as this blows over in an attempt to avoid seeing a court room. Overbooked flights are incredibly common. It's the follow up to these three idiots that will be the actual case to watch.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

Sadly that's the exact reason they overbook them, using yearly statistics to actually make assumptions 'X%' of people won't show up for their flight.

It's a pretty stupid system and I can't imagine it pans out in their favour in all the time given they have to compensate those that get chucked off or leave voluntarily.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

I think the CEO of United Airlines has now aged 10 years and aware by now that this is totally bad for them.

But I was so mad when I saw this that I felt compelled and emailed UA's CEO to inform him of my disgust.

I think United Airlines, are in damage limitation mode right now because this is all over Twitter and on all news networks in the US and here. They ought to be ashamed of their conduct and I'm convinced they have acted illegally.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

lawyers will be queuing up for this

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

United Airlines haven't acted illegally as far as I'm aware, they called authorities who in turn acted illegally. You have to separate the difference before a witch hunt sets off in the wrong direction.

United Airlines should be getting flak because they consistently overbook flights using a hilarious percentage statistical model each year and actively assume X% of people won't show up. In this scenario, it was their own staff that couldn't board.

Again in this case, I don't believe it is illegal to select people at random if no volunteers have arisen. That being said, given his profession and the fact he's evidently stated it's essential for him to be on that flight, it would have made more sense to prioritize him rather than send for security to remove him.

United Airlines- Could've handled this situation far better, they'll settle with the guy given the media outcry but they seriously need to reconsider their policy.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Actually it's not. If a person has booked a seat and paid for it, if they don't arrive at the required time before flight then they lose it. The airline can then sell it on to anyone waiting for a cancellation.

Unfortunately in this case the flight has simply been overbooked, something United do all too frequently.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Yeah, derp moment when I'm not factoring in the money they then keep for those that didn't show. Not sure why I didn't consider that, which of course makes perfect sense from a business point of view and shows that Overbooking isn't just a game of chance.

Unfortunately for UA, a google of their overbooking practices only leads to 8 pages of searches for this news story. They have to settle Asap.

Incoming lifetime free flying pass.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Would you say the passengers who witnessed this also become eligible for compensation as they looked physically distressed ?

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Well if its the US, I'm sure a bunch of Lawers will try that one as well.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Everyone that was inconvenienced deserves something from this. Make no mistake, United Airlines set the events in motion with their shoddy practices. There were several better ways out of this, starting with their overbooking policies, moving onto higher compensation before calling in the 'repo men' or simply just prioritising this man because he was a doctor that had hospital schedules he couldn't fulfill if he left the flight. If you upped that benefit for getting off, someone will have eventually jumped. Job done, far cheaper than what it's going to cost them now. This wasn't a direct result of simply overbooking though, everyone had a seat, they wanted their own staff on the plane to occupy those seats for their scheduled employment at the destination and AFAIK they refused to take off until four people had given up their seats. It's the fact that is legal that's annoying.

There needs to be two battles here though, the one against UA that caused this, and the one against three men that illegally assaulted a man on a plane. I have a feeling the latter will just vanish if UA put up compensation and everybody accepts it as case closed, those three still want arrested and charged with assault.

Seems to be no solid confirmation whether these lot were Police or Security Officers, it makes no difference of course, it's still unjust force, it's just that the Police tend to get away with it more often than not.

Obviously failed to mention, Police or Security's employers will also be dragged into this now. I'd expect the three to be instantly dismissed if they're Security and suspended if Police.

If they actually removed the guy without assaulting him, the most we'd have right now is disgruntled passenger ejected from flight, something that sadly occurs daily thanks to overbooking practices. It only takes one incident to blow that all up and that's happened.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

I just read a woman traveller on Delta Airlines, agreed to give up her placement, twice this weekend, she has netted $11,000 for doing so though.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Yeah, there's sometimes a hefty incentive for doing so, obviously $800 wasn't enough in this case but it's going to cost far more now. :erm:

It just made more sense to keep upping that 800 until someone volunteered. I'm sure in 99% of case they can have someone removed safely, sadly the other 1% where the security you've called in are overly aggressive have then caused a major news storm painting your company in bad light.

Be certain that UA are working with their legal team writing up non disclosure and essentially gagging orders for him to sign in return for some decent Wonga. As for the three thugs, we have to wait and see now as UA are dominating the story.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

So you agree that if you've paid for a seat you should then give it up? To me it matters not the reason, it's paid for and should be available. There is no excuse for overbooking except to make the company more money.

Don't forget UA would have been paid for the seat, if the person didn't turn up on time then they have a genuine reason to sell it on but to deliberately overbook in the beginning is wrong IMHO.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Morally I don't agree, I think it's a silly practice. I just term everything based on their official contracts so as to not confuse what's legal and illegal. It's a shoddy practice that they can get away with 99% of the time by offering incentives which legally they have to do, but it doesn't bother them because they've already made bank. This is the 1% where the thugs they've called have made a pigs arse of it and now they look like idiots too.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...iage.aspx#sec5
Section 5G

If people stand for it the majority of time, UA couldn't give a toss. We don't oversell football stadiums because we can.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

It's a weird system but it is purely there to make as little amount of loss as possible. I was first aware of it years ago and all Airlines do it I guess. I was sat in the departure lounge at McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas waiting to board a Virgin Atlantic flight, their boarding team then offered upgraded flights and another nights stay at 5 star hotel to give up their seats.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

I flew Untied to the USA last month and would not fly them again, even before this.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Looks like they broke their own rules.

Rule 25 paragraph 2. The passenger had clearly boarded.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Just thought this is not technically an over booking. The seats needed were for United Staff.

I'm wondering though how 4 United Airlines staff were needed more than a Doctor.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

.... or why the United staff could not just be transferred to another plane.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

The twist in this sad tale is that investors seem to like the company's approach!
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/04/...iency-targets/ or Google "Traders appreciate United Airlines’s commitment to “cost efficiency targets”"

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

In yet another twist he apparently fell causing his injuries. He should sue and I'm sure there will be law firms begging him to do so.

Link

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

So we can confirm it was Police and not private security. Just another ordinary example of Police brutality. It's alright, he fell though, then he slid down the aisle. It's a good thing he slid down the aisle on his back then, if it was exposed they might have shot him.

Obviously going off multiple sources and included in that link

This is actually what happened according to witnesses. Don't stop there though, you can see exactly that in the video, they pull him over the first armrest and he gets dragged face first into the next one.

So back to the earlier. UA should compensate him for the absolute embarrassment of all of this which I'm sure they're going to do along with a statement distancing themselves from the model police officers. Noting had they not insisted their staff board the plane, none of this would've happened.

He should sue regarding the Police issue, all three should be instantly suspended pending assault investigations, people have pointed out elsewhere that he and his lawyer are likely trying to get both in court at the same time on the same lawsuit. Noting that this could've been avoided had UA either upped their offer or just you know like Paul said, made other arrangements for their staff. This might make headway into absolutely stopping airlines forcibly removing people from planes, as earlier, that happens all the time, mostly without a fracas like this one, but it's still bs in all cases.


Again from the above article:

[img][/img]

They're setting up to literally deny the entire thing despite a video showing they're complete liars. What a broken system they have.
Also, he re-appeared 10 minutes later? They dragged him off and then just walked off? or what? Top blokes these lot, real professionals.

Whilst we're at it, we can use technicalities like the flight not actually being oversold at all, I wonder if there's anything in their bs contracts that protects UA from removing people for their own staff.

Witness account:

So not only did they assault a 69 year old man, they then lost him, these guys are the real deal, Chicago's finest.

Turns out he was indeed suspended: https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2017...icer-suspended

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

So let me get this straight, I pay for a ticket, board my plane, take my seat and I am being told I have to get off to let on their staff instead and they expect me not to become irate?

They are out of their frigging minds! What's worse is, before this video went viral, United Airlines attempted to justify their actions.

I know it's not really a laughing matter, but seen lots of sarky comments that when it comes to the demonstration of putting on life jacket and emergency doors, on United flights, customers should be requesting one to defend against being assaulted and dragged off in the event of over booking.

Other passing comment that should hold true, 'They won't have a problem with over booking now at United Airlines.'

From the sounds of it, they were a mediocre Airline to begin with. But talk about completely sinking a brand over night.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Not only that but they didn't take him to hospital the first time but must have done so when they got him off the second time.

Muppets!

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

At a guess they might say other planes couldn't take of without those four staff and it'd inconvenience thousands of people rather than the four they boot of. Might be interesting to know exactly where the four were needed and why they weren't already there and was there an alternative like driving them there.

Wonder if the manager is still laughing, $1600 seems cheap at twice the price considering the bad publicly, cancellations and law suits this is bound to cause.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

United Airlines are digging their own grave. Apparently CEO has sent following internal email to their employees.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RyanRuggi...77150117425154

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

l just saw it again this morning on the news and its utterly indefensible and it won't be long before he goes either especially given the latest revelations..

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

If only he'd spent the time replying to your email rather than drafting that the situation wouldn't have escalated from catastrophic to horrific, send another Mick, we'll all sign it!

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Simon Calder the travel guy has been on the radio this morning and he says, although United have mismanaged the whole thing, the one who is totally at fault is the passenger himself. He went on to say that under aviation law, when the captain says to any passenger for any reason, that they have to get off the plane, then they have to get off.
Blimey, I`m off to Egypt soon and I hope Thomas Cook dont use this policy.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

How can he be totally at fault when in the same sentence, Simon said UA have mismanaged the situation?

I'm siding with passenger here. It's not okay to mishandle a situation like this. This doctor is 69 years of age, therefore a pensioner.

Earlier I said the company is now in company damage limitation mode, but after reassessing their PR skills, I'm replacing limitation to overdrive.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Yeah he probably should have left when asked, however outrageous that demand was, but United are at fault for allowing the situation to develop where a passenger who had already boarded was being asked to leave to make way for United staff. United deserve to be boycotted over this, especially for the way they've handled it subsequently.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

US Department of Transport have said following:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1491897609

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

So that statement from the DOT is just confirming that a flight ticket does not guarantee a flight and that passengers' rights are minimal.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Something like that but I don't think it says, you are allowed to assault a passenger, drag them by the arms etc. It's outrageous to do this any person but the fact they did this to a 69 year old man is totally out of order and for the CEO to publicly apologise, in a pathetic manner by saying sorry that they had to re-accommodate these passengers and that they want to reach out to the passenger but then he sends an internal memo saying he is behind his staff.

Totally ridiculous. Only thing I can say is, I don't think I could have sat there and done nothing, I know there was passengers being vocal and outraged while it happened but I just don't think I could have sat there and allowed that abuse to happen.

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

United Airlines is getting an absolute roasting online and are being absolutely trolled to death at the moment and I have absolutely no sympathy for them, here are a couple of newly invented company mottos that people are making up for them:

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

That third tweet, "Board as a doctor, leave as a patient" is priceless. :D

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

if i was a share holder in this company i would demand heads role over this

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

The security police were heavy-handed but:

1. Why didn't the bloke leave the plane when he was asked to?
2. Why was he screaming like a demented polecat?
3. Why did he run up the aisle mumbling "I have to get home, I have to get home"?
4. Who did he suppose was going to disembark because he wouldn't?

Just asking. Don't bite my head off!

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

fear- which was justified he got a good hiding

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

When he said he had to go home he appears to be traumatised. He should have gotten off when asked but the rest of it is the fault of the police and United.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

But didn't he bring it upon himself?

Traumatised at not being able to get his own way?

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I think that is far fetched Kursk.

I think you're forgetting he did have his head rammed in to the arm rest in a seat next to him and he was manhandled out of the seat, so much so that he caused his head to bleed, another witness says he could possibly have been knocked out as he went limp.

Stressful incident.. can take it's toll on any body and they can react in any way.

I really do not think this is about getting his own way, he broke no laws, he paid for a ticket, got on a plane and the rest is incompetence by United Airlines.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

i don't think there is any justifying this ,you can't treat people this way ,this will damage the airline if they try to justify this act .

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Valid points. But he should have just left the plane like an adult (I think his wife already had) and there wouldn't have been the unfortunate escalation.

Given that someone had to get off, would you have given him your seat?

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

He has been aggressively dragged off a flight, his his head on the way to the extent it's quite bloody. I am not a Doctor, I don't know his condition, but he seems very disturbed.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

'I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond': Defiant United Airlines CEO pens 'tone deaf' email defending staff after 'belligerent' passenger was viciously dragged from overbooked flight

CEO needs sacking imo

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-staff.html

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Resisting is also aggression. Would you have acted in this manner? I think not.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I have been trained first aid by St John's Ambulance and I have worked in the healthcare sector for 25 years, even though I am not medically qualified to give a legal diagnosis, I can safely say that he has the classic symptoms of someone in shock. (Dazed, confused, walking wounded).

Initial testimony from other passengers said he received no medical assistance until he was escorted off the plane a second time, this was said to be well over an hour later. They neglected their duty of care to this man, in my professional opinion.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Well, no-one appeared concerned enough to offer their seat. Would you give up yours? No, really?

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Well, as I commented earlier on, a woman gave up her seat twice on a Delta Airlines flight somewhere in the US and netted $11,000 in total for doing so. I would do that everyday no problem. So yes, I would do it and make sure it was worth my while.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

With respect Mick, getting a nice pay day is just a little bit different from giving up your seat altruistically.

I suspect most people here would take the view that they too, "have to get home". I think the way he handled himself was demeaning for a man of his obvious intellect.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

what would you say if this old fellow was your dad -would it be ok to manhandle your old pappy out of his seat and drag him bloodied down the isle

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

If similar circumstances were to happen again, on any airline, I might now do what this man has done, what they going to do? Drag me off as well, I am sure it will make Youtube within 10 minutes, I do not think any reasonable carrier would want to behave and have their brand tarnished in such a manner.

I would say me protesting my stay, gives me the upper hand, they want me off, they can compensate me and not just a couple of hundred quid!

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I started by saying the security staff were heavy-handed. What I'm discussing is the pre-escalation which the Doctor has some responsibility for. I do not condone his poor treatment; but whose old pappy would act in such a belligerent manner that it required physical removal?

I also think his apparently unconscious removal saw him firmly grasping his apple iphone...
I don't believe you would have acted in the manner of this man. Besides, we know you can be bought off :)

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

The whole story is borne out of incompetence by the airline.

Why did they issue boarding cards to all passengers if they needed 4 seats for staff.

Dealt with at check-in, there would have been none of this.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I think they needed seats for their staff to rv elsewhere as an unpredicted change. Circumstances change in huge organisations. We are used to it all running like clockwork; when things alter (like flight delays) we just have to suck it up.

We don't all have the screaming ab dabs. I am waiting for the Nazis to be mentioned.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

you just did

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Werent the security team from the SS? ;)

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Godwins Law. End of discussion :D

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

United Airlines' shares seen sliding after passenger was dragged from overbooked flight
The slump could wipe as much as $1bn off the group's total market value


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7678051.html

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Sorry Kursk but you are making sorry arse excuses up for them, they are completely in the wrong here on every level. To how they got him off the flight, the fact they neglected their duty of care while he was walking around dazed and blooded from their assault and then the PR disaster that followed with the CEO publicly saying sorry but saying privately to his staff, jolly good job well done.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

No doubt his view of things would be very much different then one imagines.;)

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I have just seen another angle of the incident where he he saying 'Just kill me', 'Just kill me', I have only seen two vids, the one where he is removed from his seat and dragged and another where he is walking up and down saying I want to go home and he is repeating it over and over. That man clearly did not just suffer physical pain. :(

---------- Post added at 15:20 ---------- Previous post was at 14:57 ----------

Just seen this:

https://www.change.org/p/united-airl...o-oscar-munoz?

Over 11K signatures already.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

:eek: :eeek:

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I see they are trying to find something on this guy now but to me his past is irrelevant. I reckon the ceo has said, find something, anything to make out its his fault.
http://www.courier-journal.com/story...0839c4936d4285

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I think this is a very interesting read... What United's CEO should have done...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/wha...ry_top_stories

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I don't mean to be making excuses for anybody but when I saw the word 'Oscar' in your link I thought, fair play, the doc deserves one. I realised later it's the CEO's first name ;)

Predictably, a petition has appeared; we're going to be cursed if petitions are set up everytime there's an incident in society. Ho hum.

And, as mentioned earlier, he was 'removed' by law enforcement, not UA staff. Shouldn't every responsible citizen follow the instructions of the law without all the frenzied histrionics? I'll get me coat :sulk:

Trying to find something? Well, they certainly did. I think your link throws another light on all of this.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Was the need for the staff to travel an unexpected and unplanned thing? If staff suddenly report in sick, replacements have to come from somewhere.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Found on Reddit:

http://i.imgur.com/99dgkTs.mp4

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/04/6.jpg
Why when I read that do I think of Blackadder

He accidental and brutally cut his heat off while combing his hair.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

So apt. Note the good guy is the one effecting the removal :D

Can you imagine the furore if a flight was cancelled because UA didn't make arrangements for the transfer of personnel?

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Tbf if united had made proper arrangements none of this would have happened. ;)

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to over booking
 

Overbooking is so commonplace it's regarded as usual practise; if seats were kept vacant routinely just in case staff need redeployment at short notice, who would end up funding the fare 'loss'? :erm:

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Don't care who he was removed by : It was still wrong. You do no go about assaulting innocent people and causing them to bleed. You said you do not mean to make excuses, but you still are and I think you are being unreasonable on the passenger himself. If the man wants scream holy hell, he should be allowed to, he is being removed with unreasonable force, against his will.


Rubbish. It shows no such thing. No other light to shine on this other than an Airline ballsed up. A police officer ballsed up. United Airlines ballsed up with their PR skills, it has taken their share price to drop significantly to say sorry and that to me is unforgivable.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

I have repeatedly said the removal itself was heavy-handed (although security staff/police deal regularly with people who refuse to accept the law and a certain amount of physical persuasion is unavoidable and justified imo). Much like the forced grounding of drunk/drugged drivers who won't accept hand restraints.

It might just be me but I find the Doctor's "I want to go home", "just kill me" snivelling, just a little irrational. Who acts like that? But I suppose as you say, if he wants to scream like a cornered polecat, he can; my view is that most, rational adults don't behave that way. He could have left voluntarily, and unassisted, as asked, been escorted off with a hand on his shoulder or screamed blue murder until he had to be dragged off. He invoked the latter (but held on to his iphone when 'unconscious') which was then carried out over-enthusiastically.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

As already said, he had his head rammed in to an arm rest. Causing him to bleed. He is clearly in shock. People in shock act in irrational ways. That's just how it goes so I do not agree with this character assassination. It does not remove any wrong doing on United Airlines or the aviation authorities part.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

That may not be true. http://claireconnelly.com.au/hello-h...-its-mistakes/

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Imho there is culpability on both sides, which is an entirely different status to a petition-inducing one-sided big-bully airline beating up on a little feller.

It remains no-one gave up their seat even though by his actions that was the outcome he wanted.

I wonder how many of those silent on the plane were thinking "just get off mate ffs" none of which shows up in the video punctuated with cries of Oh my Gaarrrd" ;)

Fair enough; withdrawn!:)

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

His wife volunteered and went quietly.

If you try and get into a tug of war with somebody, you will likely go backwards if you break free. Your intended direction of movement is backwards in an uncontrollable manner. Inevitable in that situation to get injured. No attacking involved from the other person. The more somebody struggles, the more likely they are going to injure THEMSELVES.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Not defending anyone here because I haven't seen how it happened but head cuts tend to bleed profusely, even small ones, which often makes them look far worse than they are.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

The letter from the Kentucky board, ie NOT New Orleans, refers to a David A Dao, ie NOT David Thanh Duc Dao. The letter is from June of last year, less than a year ago.Looks like it's referring to this one, not the other.

Now that didn't take long to trample all over this supposedly journalist nonsense.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

No, but you are still dealing with a potential head trauma, his head hitting the arm rest and I am sure I read it was hit with such force that it knocked him out briefly. He could have had a bleed on the brain for all we know, we cannot see that without scans/x-rays.

In any case, you do not pay for a service and expect to get assaulted when you have done nothing wrong.

Anyway, CEO has come out and now said that they will not use any force to remove passengers in future and I am pretty sure all other Airlines will not go down this route either but I am sure all others would have managed their overbooking issues better.

This now gives the upper hand to passengers because the BUMP offer, in cases of overbooking will now have to be so lucrative to encourage being BUMPED from that specific flight.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

It's interesting to see how mobile phone footage and social media have totally wrong footed the PR department and CEO. No longer can company's that deal badly with people hide these actions from the public and stage manage the media.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Not sure she volunteered; she just wisely didn't physically resist like her husband. Just as well for the airline or it would have looked worse. Just wonder how they were picked ? Not sure I believe the airline that it was random. They seems to have been telling a lot of porkies.

To partly get themselves out of this they could make a declaration never to overbook flights again. This would set the cat amongst the pigeons in the airline industry, others would have to follow suit. Never understood overbooking anyway if you've paid in advance, surely they don't lose anything if you don't turn up. Its obscene profiteering. Happened to us once with a hotel in Spain where we'd booked and paid for months in advance; Mrs K kicked up a public fuss, they very wisely found a room suddenly...

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

As I said, just making the point that head injuries frequently look far worse than they are. Of course other injuries are quite possible, including internal ones nothing to do with his head. Time will tell what injuries he has and how they were caused.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Although they're not meant to do this anyway. Overbooking has to be caught at the gate, if they've allowed people to board it's their seat. Obviously they would still have to get out if asked but the airline has broken it's contract and the regulation at that point. Even if they do try to beat the customer into submission.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

You cannot physically assault someone for trespassing without a justifiable reason. It's as simple as refusing to leave does not justify assault. There's no ifs or buts in this scenario its literally that simple.

By law if a complaint is made all three can be arrested. In a court room they'd lose over failure to justify their actions.

UA saying they'll never call for physical removals is great and all but it's dodging the point that this was law enforcement failing too. The witch hunt can't just be directed at one company. These officers absolutely failed.

I know the topics moving on now but reading posts in my absence i felt like this wasn't even debatable. It's literally open and shut.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Yep social media reveals everything and l am not sure a lot of companies have realised that how much of a Pandora's box it is when things go viral online.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

What would have been the best way to resolve the situation?

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

He volunteered to go to originally, he wanted the 800 credits, it was only when he was told the next flight wasn't until the next day he wasn't happy and withdrew his offer

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------

Pay someone, anyone, someone would've accepted an offer eventually

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Give them a offer which they won't refuse.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Best way via hindsight of course.

Option 1, simply do not remove passengers for your staff or in other cases, do not allow overbooking of flights.

Option 2, given that it seems clear this gentleman was prioritising getting back to his place of work over monetary compensation I'd have continually upped the offer until someone else accepted. In hindsight you can guarantee they wish they'd done this.

Option 3 if both are not applicable, removal of the gentleman by reasonable means, You literally apply a clamp manoeuvre with either one or two officers to either arm, meaning you can lift without causing massive distress to the receiving party, if the passenger then insists on struggling you can then bind his legs with the third officer if required, at this point you still have absolutely no justifiable way to inflict damage on a person, you then merely carry or escort the man off the plane, it's literally that simple assuming he hasn't retaliated with assault. Assuming he does retaliate with assault then you'd have the legal justification to drag him the way they did if they can provide evidence it was required for the situation, which it would be at that point.

Given the tight space on the plane, it may be necessary for one person to lift the gentleman out of the seat before trying to apply various manoeuvres.

It's easy enough me saying option 3 but there's multiple factors, heat of the moment (aggression in this case as we seen) training (Whether they've even been effectively trained for both non physical and physical removal) which of course you'd think they should be, but it's whether they even remember it. So it's not just a case of saying what they should've done but pointing out everything wrong with what they did do and aggression is right at the forefront. Aggression is absolutely useless in security or policing and serves no usefulness to anyone. Assertiveness is the one.

If you remove the plane equation from this, I dealt with something very similar at the 2012 Olympics whilst on VIP detail for the event. A guy with a ticket in a place I didn't want him to be despite the fact he had a reason to be exactly where he was. We solved it using aspects of option 2.

If Option 3 is a success though, the headline changes from Passenger assaulted to either no headline with minimal coverage or Passenger ejected. That's an absolutely massive change for both the company and the police.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Well they did do that to be fair.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/04/3.gif

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

There is a right way and a wrong way as we know and of course they chose the way to damnation one could say.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

True enough (especially if that money-grabber Mick is on board ;)) but I do like option 3 below :devsmoke:.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Option 3 would lead to where we are now : it's bad and it's wrong.

And yes I would grab what I can : They are inconveniencing me remember so they can pay up accordingly. And now that I know removal by force would damage them more than them moving me, they'd better make the offer worthwhile.

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

You would have thought $1,000 would be enough to get someone.
Elsewhere, someone has said you can drive between the two airports in 4 hours. Not perfect, but could the staff have got there by car instead or be booked onto a competitor's flight?

Edit: Here's a great chart showing what the airline might have done.
https://qz.com/955853/flowchart-of-n...tm_source=qzfb

Re: United Airlines: Passenger violently removed due to overbooking
 

Option 3 If done correctly. They legally remove him from the plane on account of trespass and he has absolutely no case in court except for a punt at the airline for kicking him off. As soon as you've refused to leave you've also committed a separate offence relating to refusal to leave an aircraft when asked by law enforcement. People can record it and circulate it but by law these men and the airline would have nothing to answer for.

We know its morally wrong. I'm just trying to explain the legal way to remove someone in this scenario.

It's up to the airline to exhaust every available option before having to call for a verbal or physical removal, that's something i don't believe they did.

I'm absolutely certain scenarios like this unfold all the time and because we're not hearing about them it's because they're being dealt with properly and legally. Just in this case you've accidentally called Mr Angry to remove the passenger and Mr Angry isn't very good at his job. He can't remove a 69 year old man off a plane safely. So why is Mr Angry in law enforcement because he's evidendly unable to protect and serve. Even when physically removing someone, they're in your care and you have a duty of care. He failed. Not only did he assault him, he then lost this man.

Again this is all in relation to legal removal and not the practices of United Airlines which are morally wrong.