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Maggy 30-03-2017 10:39
Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39436927

Quote:
Controversial national tests taken by seven-year-olds in England could be scrapped under new government plans.
The move follows years of pressure from teachers, parents and educationalists opposed to putting young pupils through high stakes national Sats tests.
Finally! It was the daftest idea ever.

Osem 30-03-2017 11:36
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Osem Jnr. will be pleased. :)

pip08456 30-03-2017 14:11
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
It was doomed to failure before it started.

What I find abhorrent is the parents who seem to think it is up to the Government and the education system to teach their children.

I speak as a father who garned the interest of a child and taught her to read before she even started school.

Parents have just as much responsibility if not more to educate their children than any government body.

Those ideals seem to have gone though.

richard s 30-03-2017 18:24
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Here here...

heero_yuy 31-03-2017 07:44
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
So the first time any child gets independently benchmarked is at 11? Could be 6-7 wasted years at the hands of no good teachers and schools. Billiant.

Maggy 31-03-2017 09:10
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35892609)
So the first time any child gets independently benchmarked is at 11? Could be 6-7 wasted years at the hands of no good teachers and schools. Billiant.
So teachers,education experts and parents are all wrong? After all even when I was at school there was only one national educational test in primary. It was the 11 plus..and how divisive was that? No child should be put through the stress of testing UNTIL they have the basic skills to do so. Not every child is set in aspic at any age.They all develop at their OWN pace particularly between the ages of 0-11.

heero_yuy 31-03-2017 09:26
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
So no improvements needed then?

Quote:
One in five British students leave school without acquiring basic skills, according to a new report commissioned by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

The report, titled 'Universal Basic Skills: What countries stand to gain', was produced by economists Eric Hanushek and Ludger Woessmann.

It includes the biggest ever global school rankings, which rank 76 countries according to how well their students perform. The analysis is based on test scores in maths and science, and is an expansion on the OECD's Pisa test scores.

Asian countries dominate the top of the rankings, with Singapore heading the table, followed by Hong Kong in second place and South Korea in third.

The United Kingdom ranks 20th, and the United States comes in at number 28.
Source

If you don't properly test how can you gauge IF you're getting better?

Pierre 31-03-2017 10:19
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
SATS, as I'm always being told, are to test the school and not the child.

There are many ways school standards can be tested without putting unwarranted stress on 7years and their parents.

Maggy 31-03-2017 10:27
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35892620)
So no improvements needed then?



Source

If you don't properly test how can you gauge IF you're getting better?
Well if they can read fluently,write well,are numerically literate what more do you need to know? Teachers will be checking this on a weekly basis as they have ALWAYS done. You are behaving as if they will just be left to their own devices and the teachers won't be doing anything at all.If you don't believe me go and do some voluntary work in school as I did when my children were in the infants and juniors. Secondary school is early enough to start testing.As a secondary teacher all I ever required was that the children had basic skills like times tables,reading,writing,some scientific basic knowledge. After all there's plenty of testing done for the 7-8 years after the age of 11.

heero_yuy 31-03-2017 13:12
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
You're 18 and leaving education, the world of work is at your feet.

Or is it? Not so, according to the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (CIMA).

A survey by the business group has found eight out of 10 British school-leavers "lack essential business skills" such as numeracy.

More than 80% of young people require "significant training" before being put to work, according to the 4,000 finance professionals questioned.

The figure is worse than last year, when 75% of school-leavers were said to need this level of help after being hired.

The top areas of weakness for new recruits are people skills and business skills, followed by technical skills.
Source

It's not just financial sectors that make this observation

Quote:
Over three-quarters of employers believe that action is needed to improve maths and English skills, following concerns that poor skills in these areas can have a real impact on business, according to a new survey.

The review of business leaders found that many reported problems with young employees and potential recruits who had "difficulties constructing emails, use text speak rather than properly constructed sentences, and had poor spelling and communication skills".

The findings raise concerns that current qualifications taken by schoolchildren do not provide pupils with practical and relevant workplace skills.

Nearly half of employers said that they are most concerned with the English skills in young people, while 17 per cent cited maths as their main worry.

According to the report, only 11 per cent of respondents said they had no concern about either subject.
Source

So here's the dichotomy: Teachers, professional educators etc. who think they're doing a wonderful job and employers aghast at great swathes of school leavers who can barely read, write, add up or string a coherent sentence together after 12-14 years of education. :(

Taf 31-03-2017 14:00
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Our twins, and many of their peers, left Infant school with very poor skills. Ditto Junior school. Ditto Secondary school.

Each stage blamed the previous one for not teaching to the necessary standards, but nothing was done to remedy this. They just plodded on and on with more and more pupils falling further and further behind.

Testing at set stages might have stopped this situation arising. But teachers don't like it as it can highlight poor teachers, and schools don't like it as it can highlight poor schools!

I think the mistake that's being made is making the testing too formal and rigid, raising anxiety and fear amongst students.

Maggy 31-03-2017 15:20
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35892660)
Our twins, and many of their peers, left Infant school with very poor skills. Ditto Junior school. Ditto Secondary school.

Each stage blamed the previous one for not teaching to the necessary standards, but nothing was done to remedy this. They just plodded on and on with more and more pupils falling further and further behind.

Testing at set stages might have stopped this situation arising. But teachers don't like it as it can highlight poor teachers, and schools don't like it as it can highlight poor schools!

I think the mistake that's being made is making the testing too formal and rigid, raising anxiety and fear amongst students.
Which is why there will still be 'testing' and checking just less informally.

Taf 31-03-2017 15:23
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35892669)
Which is why there will still be 'testing' and checking just less informally.
Did you not mean to say "less formally" ? :dunce:

Maggy 31-03-2017 15:27
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35892656)
Source

It's not just financial sectors that make this observation



Source

So here's the dichotomy: Teachers, professional educators etc. who think they're doing a wonderful job and employers aghast at great swathes of school leavers who can barely read, write, add up or string a coherent sentence together after 12-14 years of education. :(
None of this will be affected by 7 year olds not being formally tested..and the SATs tests for year 6 will still take place.

---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35892670)
Did you not mean to say "less formally" ? :dunce:
My bad.

Pierre 31-03-2017 17:55
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35892660)
Our twins, and many of their peers, left Infant school with very poor skills. Ditto Junior school. Ditto Secondary school.

Each stage blamed the previous one for not teaching to the necessary standards, but nothing was done to remedy this. They just plodded on and on with more and more pupils falling further and further behind.

So what did you do? to help your kids improve their skills?

Taf 31-03-2017 18:47
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
I started giving them home tuition but got a very snotty letter from the school about the methods I was teaching them. Then I was told to attend a meeting with their maths department to explain my actions. I duly attended and gave them merry hell. As did other parents at the meeting. Nothing changed though.

Complaints to each head teacher in turn over the years met with blank looks and empty promises. So I complained to our local council and councilors. More blank looks and empty promises. Our MP never replied to any letters, and was "too busy with other things" at the few meetings I managed to attend.

I requested homework I could guide them though, but none ever appeared.

The only homework either of them ever got was to colour in a picture for RE in secondary school!

Starting from before school age I taught them to read and spell so that they were in the top 10% of their years, despite their disabilities. My daughter has ADHD and Dyscalculia, so it's only been in the past couple of years that arithmetic has started to sink in. Her Statement of Special Education Needs promised specialist aid to overcome Dyscalculia, but guess what? None ever appeared!

I still teach them bits and bobs most days. From general knowledge (which seems to so lacking these days) to DIY, cooking, Home Economics type stuff, gardening, etc. But first we had to set firm foundations with all the basics they should have been taught in school.

Osem 31-03-2017 21:23
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35892695)
I started giving them home tuition but got a very snotty letter from the school about the methods I was teaching them. Then I was told to attend a meeting with their maths department to explain my actions. I duly attended and gave them merry hell. As did other parents at the meeting. Nothing changed though.

Complaints to each head teacher in turn over the years met with blank looks and empty promises. So I complained to our local council and councilors. More blank looks and empty promises. Our MP never replied to any letters, and was "too busy with other things" at the few meetings I managed to attend.

I requested homework I could guide them though, but none ever appeared.

The only homework either of them ever got was to colour in a picture for RE in secondary school!

Starting from before school age I taught them to read and spell so that they were in the top 10% of their years, despite their disabilities. My daughter has ADHD and Dyscalculia, so it's only been in the past couple of years that arithmetic has started to sink in. Her Statement of Special Education Needs promised specialist aid to overcome Dyscalculia, but guess what? None ever appeared!

I still teach them bits and bobs most days. From general knowledge (which seems to so lacking these days) to DIY, cooking, Home Economics type stuff, gardening, etc. But first we had to set firm foundations with all the basics they should have been taught in school.
:tu:

Julian 31-03-2017 22:07
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35892695)
I started giving them home tuition but got a very snotty letter from the school about the methods I was teaching them. Then I was told to attend a meeting with their maths department to explain my actions. I duly attended and gave them merry hell. As did other parents at the meeting. Nothing changed though.

Complaints to each head teacher in turn over the years met with blank looks and empty promises. So I complained to our local council and councilors. More blank looks and empty promises. Our MP never replied to any letters, and was "too busy with other things" at the few meetings I managed to attend.

I requested homework I could guide them though, but none ever appeared.

The only homework either of them ever got was to colour in a picture for RE in secondary school!

Starting from before school age I taught them to read and spell so that they were in the top 10% of their years, despite their disabilities. My daughter has ADHD and Dyscalculia, so it's only been in the past couple of years that arithmetic has started to sink in. Her Statement of Special Education Needs promised specialist aid to overcome Dyscalculia, but guess what? None ever appeared!

I still teach them bits and bobs most days. From general knowledge (which seems to so lacking these days) to DIY, cooking, Home Economics type stuff, gardening, etc. But first we had to set firm foundations with all the basics they should have been taught in school.
Complete respect for you and the perfect answer to the question.

RizzyKing 01-04-2017 04:10
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
My brother has said basic skills have been on the decline in school leavers noticeably for the last fifteen years and that he's reluctant to employ them as the extra time need to raise literacy and numeracy to acceptable levels before they can start the job training is cost prohibitive. I've seen for myself the attitude of secondary and upper schools as they were then binning kids that wouldn't return a favourable GCSE result putting them into mobile classrooms watching videos. We have a major problem in our education system and it's failing a lot of kids and all the teaching unions and politicians do is pass the damn buck neither willing to admit cause on their end and so nothing gets resolved, it's pathetic and it needs to stop.

Maggy 01-04-2017 09:51
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
I'm not defending poor or bad teaching BUT I do blame this and previous governments for pursuing ideological and political aims. The funding available per child in the system is pitiful and yet there is plenty of money for pet schemes like free schools and academies and apparently grammar schools. It's all vanity stuff to try and win votes without ever really sorting out the whole system so it provides a fair,free,effective and available to all education.

Tick box education doesn't work because staff have no time to go back and repeat where their students are not grasping a particular skill or facts but have to move on to the next stage on the curriculum because that's what's expected..I did get very frustrated by that aspect myself.To keep running out of time before a subject has been thoroughly covered because there is a timeline involved just seems like failing those individuals who need a little extra time.

Taf 01-04-2017 10:35
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
It's failings in the timeline that has caused the most upset for many pupils. "Not grasped that? Tough we have to move on..."

One-to-one help for those falling behind was withdrawn (no money), then the same happened for Statemented pupils. Both our twins had to share time with a teaching assistant, and I saw paperwork that showed the 100% help had been whittled down to as low as 15% with the T.A. flitting from pupil to pupil and class to class.

Having complete control of their budgets should have helped many new Academies, but many are spending the money on buildings and maintenance rather than on lessons and students.

We need well-educated people coming out of schools, not fodder for the service industries.

Maggy 02-04-2017 08:09
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35892757)
It's failings in the timeline that has caused the most upset for many pupils. "Not grasped that? Tough we have to move on..."

One-to-one help for those falling behind was withdrawn (no money), then the same happened for Statemented pupils. Both our twins had to share time with a teaching assistant, and I saw paperwork that showed the 100% help had been whittled down to as low as 15% with the T.A. flitting from pupil to pupil and class to class.

Having complete control of their budgets should have helped many new Academies, but many are spending the money on buildings and maintenance rather than on lessons and students.

We need well-educated people coming out of schools, not fodder for the service industries.
:tu:

Osem 02-04-2017 10:23
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35892757)
It's failings in the timeline that has caused the most upset for many pupils. "Not grasped that? Tough we have to move on..."

One-to-one help for those falling behind was withdrawn (no money), then the same happened for Statemented pupils. Both our twins had to share time with a teaching assistant, and I saw paperwork that showed the 100% help had been whittled down to as low as 15% with the T.A. flitting from pupil to pupil and class to class.

Having complete control of their budgets should have helped many new Academies, but many are spending the money on buildings and maintenance rather than on lessons and students.

We need well-educated people coming out of schools, not fodder for the service industries.
One of the reasons we didn't object when Osem Jnr #2 had to go to a special school. In our experience classroom support in mainstream education was flaky to say the least and often left very needy children not getting the help they required.

Taf 02-04-2017 10:46
Re: Sats for seven-year-olds set to be scrapped
 
What is written in the Statement is legally binding AFAIC, but no-one was able to deter the schools from cutting allocations that were agreed. And they get extra funding for requirements specified in the Statements. Ring-fencing of those extra funds never happens!


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