Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I remember the liar saying that the NHS was safe in her hands.

A well as the NHS, she wanted to scrap welfare benefit uprating & free education too:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-welfare-state

Be interesting to see what Cameron was doing behind the scenes when these records are released; not that i'll still be here then!

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Most politicians are experts at lying so sadly that's nothing new Richard.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

So proposals drawn up by the CPRS are now Maggies secret plans? How rediculous (not that I expect anything less from the Express).

The Government frequetly ask Think tanks, Quangos and departments to come up with money savings ideas, that doesn't make them Government plans.

A proposal is just that, not a plan.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

You should not bring facts into a good rant people don't like it ;)

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Oooops sorry about that.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Apparently, her whole cabinet was horrified and she said that she'd stopped pursuing this.

Secretly, she hadn't.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

And yet in modern Britain we have very costly higher education that used to be free ,severe cut backs in defence ,serious doubts on the continuation of the state pension with a mandatory private pension paid through your employer and an NHS run by private trusts .All of the above was mentioned in the report and dismissed as crazy talk ,and yet ........

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Can you show where she said that Richard or do you just believe everything a rag like the Express states.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

However, in the 80s, around 1 in 7 18-21 year olds went to University, and now it is 1 in 2, and men (on average) are living 10 years longer than in the 1980s, and we were at the height of the Cold War..

These things have to be paid for, or in rhe case of the Forces, less expenditure because of less need...

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Has been a while since we had an "evil maggie" thread of course she's responsible for everything even things done long after she left politics because of course she set things up constraining blair and all the others to follow her plans. Some people need to seriously move on and leave the past where it is, it's not like utopia came to be after her and being honest i think most people would prefer to have a maggie type back rather then what we've ended up with lately.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Maggie, for all her faults at the time was far better than what we have now.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Damn right she wasn't perfect but she did have the best interests of this country at heart.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Can't believe I'm saying this, she probably was better than what we've got now. However she/he was a bloke in drag, so you're right, not perfect.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I met her a number of times - she wasn't....

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Ahh, but how do you know Hugh ? That's the question ;)

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I had a few drinks with Dennis at a hotel bar at a conference - trust me, he was 'old school', so quod erat demonstrandum... ;)

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I had the pleasure of serving a few times and know exactly what his "Special" tonic is.

He was a good bloke.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

To be honest, I don't see why anyone should receive more in benefits than people who work a 39 hour week.

IMHO benefits should be capped at £15 to 18,000.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

many hard working folk around here would find it hard to find a job that paid £18k after deductions

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Good point, many of her outrageous views have happened by stealth, especially by Cameron.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Two of my brothers struggle to get that after deductions.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

The benefit cap was mainly brought in because the cost of Housing Benefit has continued to rocket. This is the benefit that is cut if a person exceeds the benefit cap, but Housing Benefit has become out of control due to landlords now being allowed to charge whatever they like.

When you see these benefit bashing programmes on TV that say x person gets x amount per week, people think it's wrong when they compare it to what they are working for.

Don't forget though that most if that will go straight into their landlords pocket (the real benefit scroungers), in addition, because of the cuts, many tenants will have to subsidise their rent out of money that's been frozen for years that's intended for day to day living expenses.

Most Housing Benefit claimants are now working full time, yet are having to claim Housing Benefit due to exorbitant rents.



True, but if they are low paid, have a large family or have expensive rent they would be entitled to claim in work benefits to supplement their wage.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:21 ----------

These previously secret papers were released by the National Archives, you could take a look at their website if you wish to satisfy yourself that what various newspapers have reported is correct.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Even the Express doesn't agree with you, I'm not going to do your research for you.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

The thing is that means tested benefits depend on a persons needs and wages don't.

So a single healthy person living with their parents earning say £15,000 a year, will be better off than someone in a rented house with a partner and children with a disability receiving £20,000 in benefits.

It's not that benefits are too high, it's wages that are either too low or aren't enough to meet the needs of the employee.

However, increasing wages can lead to a business folding due to it becoming unviable. Why should an employer have to take into account how many children a person has, how much their rent is etc?

If they were forced to, they would only take on people with low needs.

Various Governments have tried to resolve this issue since the Tories introduced Family Income Supplement (FIS) in the 1970's to overcome this problem.

Thatcher reformed Social Security in the eighties and replaced FIS with Family Credit.

In turn Blair replaced this with Tax Credits.

Cameron started to replace Tax Credits with Universal Credit and then embarked on cutting these in work payments and forcing employers to pay more in wages.

This is fine for large profitable companies, after all, why should the taxpayer subsidise their wage bill because they choose to pay so little.

However, this will force some small businesses to close.

I think the best solution would be to negate the need for most people to claim in work benefits by forcing employers to pay more and employees to be more responsible eg by limiting how many children that they can have (they will normally be limited to receiving help for two only from next year).

This problem has been exacerbated by EU migrants coming here and claiming benefits.

To get round the problem of small businesses having to pay higher wages that they cannot afford, perhaps some scheme where the employer receives a subsidy to pay the extra wages could be considered??

Maybe a rebate scheme for Business Rates can be reduced??

There isn't an easy one size fits all solution when everything is taken into account.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

It isn't for me, it's you that's disputing the matter.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Wrong, I'm disputing the fact the the article you quoted backs up your assertion. It doesn't.

All that remains now is your opinion, if I agree with or dispute your opinion is irrellevant.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I wouldn't say stealth i would say natural progress .As Hugh said we do not need a large standing army anymore ,as a service based economy we need more degree trained young workers ,funding for the NHS and pensions has changed through necessity .My point was that those with an ax to grind would say that the changes mooted in the report where horific and proved the evil of Thatcher.Those of us without an ax to grind would simply say she was foresighted enough to see those changes would happen anyway through necessity and to some extent she was right .

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

It's the sly underneath behaviour and lies that I dislike the most.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I don't think anyone is really be surprised at 'Thatcher's Secret Plan'. What politicians would like to do, and what they are able to do are different things. Hopefully this is true of Trump.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Politicians do very well at what they want to do - screw the uneducated working man!

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Richard, you beat me to it.
http://news.sky.com/story/margaret-t...utcry-10671543

I think that 'evil'woman, would HAVE done it if she could. Sadly, it is going on today. We have private companies trying to take over the NHS.

And the Tories, no matter what they say, are ripping the Health Service to bits.

You only have to look at recents news items.

Patients waiting in corridors with Ambulances crews. Patients having to travel mlies to get beds.

And the Tories say. 'The NHS is safe in our hands' and what is that berk Corbyn doing NOTHING

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Blame the electorate Arthur, this is what they voted for last year. Low taxes for the rich and the NHS dismantled; surely they can't have expected anything less.

No, I don't understand it either.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

You seem to assume that just because people vote for a particular party, they automatially support everything they do.

Surprisingly, thats not actually true.

A large number will always vote for the same party no matter what, the rest are just picking the lesser of two evils.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

And then you have the majority who don't bother because they know they're going to get screwed anyway.

I will add no-one has provided any evidence of a "Secret Plan" which this thread purports to be about.

All we've had is a proposal from a think tank.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

but by voting for a party, they do support the major policy decisions by implication. They should abstain if the opposition is not credible.

UK governments put a lot of store on "having a mandate" to implement their manifesto so if you don't support a party's strategic policies, don't vote for it.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

How is that as there are many l know who might have voted for certain parties but l can assure you if they are unhappy with certain policies they ain't slow to voice their unhappy opinions about it but as Paul; stated for many its picking the best of two evils as we ain't exactly loaded with the great leaders of old sadly IMO..

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

You can't vote for a party and then be unhappy over major policy decisions that were in their manifesto.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Sorry but in real life things ain't as black and white as that sometimes.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I'm sure this works fine in la la land, but here in the real world we have to vote for someone to run the country.
Voting for X or Y does not in any way mean you support all of their policies, it means you think they will do a better job than the rest.

Abstaining is completly pointless, you are simply supporting whoever wins.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Try reading the post first before replying? I said:

If you disagree with this then it is you who is not living in the real world

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I did read it thanks.

Clearly you need glasses ;

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Why so aggressive?

I said:

and:

you then replied:

I never said this which is why I suggested you re-read my post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_(politics)

As I said before, I am not talking about all policies. I am talking about the strategic policies a party puts in its manifesto.

If you don't like them, don't vote for the party. If you do vote for the party, don't complain when they implement these policies.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

[/COLOR]How many times over the years have parties had stragic policies in their manefestos which have never been implemented once in power?

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Manifestos don't contain huge detail and tend to set out overall objectives rather than the detailed means by which those things will actually be put into practice. It's perfectly possible and I'd say quite common, to be in full agreement with a principle outlined in a manifesto but not the subsequent implementation of it after, say, the required legislation has been through the parliamentary process and any legal challenges which may also result.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

If that does/did happen then there is no problem is there? The Government rarely declares it has received a mandate not to do something :)

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Never been a problem, I haven't voted in any election since the 70's

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I would always vote even if it amounted to spoiling the ballot paper. It's important for politicians to realise (and not be allowed to suggest otherwise) that people who didn't vote for them aren't just lazy and undeserving of the right to do so.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

as opposed to idiots who voted the wrong way due to been unedificashunised with book learning ;)

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

Great point.

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I'm hoping you're referring to what I should have written and have since amended:


;)

Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 

I knew what you meant (even if I didn't spot the typo :)) and still agree with you. :)