Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

The Migrant Rapes the Boy. Then the Justice system Raped us ALL ! :grind:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/734...er-Derby-court

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Can't think of a better case for deportation but it won't happen.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

If somebody has the attitude of forcing a five year old to do that, then nothing whatsoever is going to change their attitude. Forcing anyone is bad enough, but where does somebody get the notion that a 5 year old is ok?

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

...and we'll still carry on letting them in.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Only because our masters in Brussels tell us we have to.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Maybe Lily Allen et al will sort it out eh? That's if she's recovered from the trauma of having a taxi driver tell her to get lost.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Deport him back and if daddy isn't happy he can go back with him might only be 15 but is old enough to know right from wrong and that's enough kick the rubbish out.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

An absolute failure of Justice, well played. :erm:

Further ammunition for the far right as always and they wouldn't be wrong to be annoyed either. 15 or not, he should have been tried as an adult for such a disgusting act and handed a custodial sentence and/or deported. It's stuff like this that'll see us elect a Trump next.

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

This

Madness. Those guidelines want binned, applied to thieves and toe rags, acceptable, applied to a 15 year old raping a 5 year old.. just no.

Some Rehab.
A nifty G4s tag
A restraining order.

The victims family must feel so relieved that such amazing justice has been carried out. Fair play for letting it get to the media though, wouldn't want to also be covering it up would we?

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

or even summary execution. Some people don't deserve to live.

I have a 5 year old grandson, if someone did that to him, they wouldn't have got as far as the courts...

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I'd go with that;)

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Were talking about this issue tonight and friends from other parts of the country were saying these are not such isolated incidents there seems to be an attitude in many parts of the world that age and consent are not things to consider. We have seen this all too often and it's an area where tolerance is not an appropriate approach there is no ifs or buts here deportation should have followed a custodial sentence, we do have juvenile detention centres and if they are not there for this type of **** then who.

Sooner or later a person will take control of one of the knuckle dragging groups and will gain traction with stuff like this. As I've said in another thread the far right are not going to get majority support in my lifetime but the more stuff like this that happens will give them an easier time.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Indeed.

Some immigrants come from places where women are treated like a piece of meat and where the age of consent is lower than ours.

We have had cases where men have openly just grabbed the breasts of young women.

We're then told that we must respect other cultures, and standards/beliefs/ways of living that are different to our own and that to not do so is "racist".

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

So we have a 15 yr old migrant raping a 5yr old boy ,there's obviously something wrong with the way he was brought up so in my opinion the parents want deporting as well .We also have that shining light Jeremy Corbyn saying that the Tories "fanned the flames of immigration" .
Mr Corbyn i would say that the flames of immigration are being fanned by events like this

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

well said :clap::clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 ----------

have we sunk that low as a society that we execute kids :omg:

lock them up for a long time and if they wont change deport them- but lets not forget this is still a child and is only following the teachings of his elders .

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

He should have been imprisoned, and then deported back to his mother.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

:tu:

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

It's time to bring back hung strung & quartered treatment back in the uk to these uneducated freaks to put a fear of god back in them even strung & burned alive in a public concourse to make a good example what happens to misbehaving in the UK. Russia/Finland/Hungary/Poland/parts of Sweden doesn't put up with it; They beat seven shades of sh*t out them, afterwards coming out of hospital the same are waiting to apply the same treatment over & over till they get the message - it works as the migrants fear going to them countries & refuse but pick softer easy going target countries like the UK.

You even try to touch a blade of hair lice ridden hair on their head & you'll be in court for assault charges but they can do whatever they like..... but for how long? Some parts of the UK have linch mobs ready just for these freaks dishing out justice & the LEA know this. This why most of the UK voted out of the EU in Brexit..... sorry DNC supporters :Yes::nworthy:

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

It's hung, drawn and quartered.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Don't agree with the he's only a child and following his parents....what about the bulger kids should we have let them off then seen as their parents where that bad.

At 15 they know what they are doing they come over here not just here in fact Germany has been having a hell of a time with teenage kids getting raped since letting them into the country

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Whilst rape is a horrific offence which i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, it cannot be viewed in the same breath as murder.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

So it's bad to take a life but OK to affect someone for the rest of their life.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Now you're putting words into my mouth.

A proportion of rape victims may be able to make some form of recovery and deal with the physical and psychological scars to allow them to lead as close to a 'normal' life as possible.

I can confidently say that 0% of people murdered can currently make any form of recovery.

Murder is final, the deliberate calculated act of the taking of another human beings life.

Rape in all it's severity is not as serious an offence as murder.

The laws view, and one to which I subscribe

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

As I have never been raped I cannot comment on how it would affect anyone but It would appear Jimmy Saville and others affected many people who are still affected by it all these years later.

So much for recovery.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Hence my use of the word 'proportion'

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

But who are you or I, who have never suffered it, able to say what affect it has on a persons life?

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I think the point he was making was at least they have a life for it to have an effect on...

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Doesn't make it less of a heinous crime though

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

OK, I'll go with you on this one, as people who haven't suffered from this offence then it's very difficult for us to pass comment. BUT the comment we can pass is based on media stories that we may have seen or read.

Are you saying that an 'affected life' is comparable to no life whatsoever ?

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I would never say that. Life after all is precious. We only get one chance at it.

So someone is murdered, life ends, definately not good.

Someone gets raped, lives and for the rest of their life has a feeling of guilt for allowing it to happen.

That is why I advocated the two things being put in the same category. Someone has taken away their quality of life.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

That's exactly it, it does

---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------


You're missing the point. It is possible (whilst extremely difficult and painful) to recover from being raped. It's not possible to recover from being murdered.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Try telling that to someone who has suffered it. I know someone who is 50 yrs old now and still blames themself and had to put herself between her younger sister and her father to save the sister.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Yes and why is that ? Because when the offence happens to you it becomes emotional & personal.

Our legal society cannot nor should it be based on emotion.

It then becomes about revenge as opposed to justice.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

So you are happy with someones life being wrecked for 44 years...

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Whatever the debate between rape and murder both of which also affect the wider family this piece of **** got off way way too lightly and it makes our justice system a total joke. Society exists and continues to function only as long as the majority have faith in the structures of society, if enough start to lose faith we get social disorder and a general breakdown of socierty. Things like this take a low public opinion of the justice system and further erode that opinion that's not even taking the reaction of racists who love having this sort of incident to stir things up. I would like this judge to explain how his sentence was appropriate and how he felt he'd served justice to the community as I'm honestly lost trying to figure out how this **** didn't end up with a custodial sentence.

If the argument is "overcrowding" then we need to build more facilities and as a temp stop gap we could clear out tv's, gaming systems and other nice little things our prison population enjoys making a little more space to fit more in.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Would you rather they were dead.

In fact, don't answer, you have your perspective,I have mine and never the twain shall meet.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

You are talking about Anarchy which, hopefully, would never come to fruition. Both politicians and the judiciary need to realise the concerns of the people they purport to represent.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

AFAIK a judge operates by sentencing guidelines, it must also be remembered that the guilty party is still legally ' a child'

I too believe that the sentencing is lenient, however, a child of that age would not be placed into the adult prison population. a custodial sentence in a juvenile detention centre would be the appropriate option

Also, legally it must be considered that any guilty party must also been given the opportunity to rehabilitate themselves into society in all but the most serious of cases. I believe that when offences take place where the guilty is legally considered a child that the emphasis is placed on rehabilitation and or treatment as opposed to a custodial sentence.

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:52 ----------

No, I'm not. I'm talking about dealing with a highly emotive subject in a non emotive manner.

If politicians and the judiciary based policy purely on the emotive and potentially ill informed and over reactive general public (Which thankfully it doesn't) then we would probably see a return to the death penalty.

Something, as a member of a civilised society I would hate to see. (But that's another discussion)

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Legally a child is only up to the age of 13 IIRC you only have to think of the Bulger case.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

You're wrong, it's the age of criminal responsibility

The age of criminal responsibility in England and Wales is 10 years old.
This means that children under 10 can’t be arrested or charged with a crime. There are other punishments that can be given to children under 10 who break the law.

Children over 10
Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

They are treated differently from adults and are:

dealt with by youth courts
given different sentences
sent to special secure centres for young people, not adult prisons
Young people aged 18
Young people aged 18 are treated as an adult by the law.

If they’re sent to prison, they’ll be sent to a place that holds 18 to 25-year-olds, not a full adult prison.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

A 5 year old is a lot more of a child than a 15 year old. Age only comes into it were they don't appreciate that what they did is a crime. In this case they did know it was a crime and they WILL repeat it at some stage.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

As above, age does come into it.

You know they WILL repeat it as much as you know next weeks lottery numbers. You can make a guess based on opinion and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

If somebody has the attitude that not only is it ok to force yourself on anybody, and its ok with a 5 year old, nothing is going to change that.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Again, you can't say that for definite. You can only approximate and make best guesses.

Even at it's highest appox 38% of young offenders reoffended within the 1st 12 months.

Thats 62% who didn't, I don't have the stats for after that but would be interested to see.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Those rates assume that the first time they are locked away is the first crime they've committed and that the reoffending is the first time they've committed since release and not simply the first time they've been caught. It in no way whatsoever takes account of proclivities to sexually attack 5 year olds. After all, other groups keep saying "it's our sexuality you can't change us".

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

We have juvenile detention centres in the UK and he should be in one because if his crime doesn't warrant a custodial sentence what the hell apart from murder does. As for rehabilitation that's all well and good but an element of revenge is needed in any justice system or you'll have people taking the law into their own hands which is not something any of us want to see. In a perfect world all criminals would go to prison embrace the chance to rehabilitate and come out a benefit to society and we as a public would be happy with that. It isn't a perfect world and speaking as a parent if anyone had done this to one of my kids and got off so lightly I'd have taken matters into my own hands not nice to say not right to say but i don't know a single parent that wouldn't feel the same. Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done so that the anger in victims and their families has a vent and society can be confident that those who are a threat are removed for our protection.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

What part of your figures refer to sex offenders or is it an overall figure for all offences?

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

It's an overall I couldn't find specific figures

---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

Wrong wrong wrong wrong

Justice and revenge are diometrically opposed !!!!!!!!

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Bottom line, as an immigrant commiting an offence he has lost all rights to stay here IMHO.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Others such as Fred West were repeat sex offenders from their teenage years and because they "got away with it", things progressed.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Put the ******* in a empty room with me. It will be over very quickly.
The laws in this Country have to be changed.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I agree with you, revenge is not the answer but the punishment should fit the crime. In this case it should be incarceration (at our expense) or immediate expulsion from the country, no appeal, straight onto the plane from wherever he came from! No right to come back either!

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

It should be both. He should face justice in the UK and then be deported.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Rape is a horrible crime. No matter how old you are. I got abused when l was young for five years.
It nearly came to horrendous crime. Luckily, the son of a bitch is dead now. I am still scared about now - and l am nearly 65. It took me 20 years to tell her half it

That will be with the child for life. I strongly believe that ANYONE who commits this crime against anyone whether they are 18months old - as it has been stated many times before, that this has happened up till 90 years.

I would bring back the death penalty - simple as that

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Justice and revenge often go hand in hand and they need too upto a point so that people don't take matters into their own hands your idea is great in an ideal world where people would be rational and objective but those are two things that leave the bus first when a person close to you is the victim. I'm not saying it's right but it's a necessity to maintain a justice system and to have society adhere to it.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Justice should not just be done but seen to be done.

That has been a tennet of law for years. Has justice been seen to be done in this case?

In my view NO!

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

It's hanged, drawn and quartered, as hung is the past tense which would mean the victim was dead, when in reality they were dragged to a place of execution on a frame (drawn), hanged, cut down whilst still alive to be disembowelled then cut into pieces (quartered).

Removed you from my ignore list now. Sleep well :D

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

When you've got a daughter who has been raped you might feel differently.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

You quite clearly haven't read my posts.

Of course I would, as per my previous statements, once you become personally involved in any soft of offence then it becomes emotional

Our criminal law cannot be based on emotion as I've stated before it then becomes about revenge as opposed to justice. Arthurs two posts illustrate this point perfectly.

The law states the guilty party is of an age where he is not to be treat as an adult.

The sentencing as I've already stated is far too lenient. It should have been custodial followed by immediate deportation.

---------- Post added at 08:49 ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 ----------


I also suffered abuse when I was a child, both physical and mental at the hands of my stepfather. It has led to me having mental health problems (which linger to this day) including a stay in psychiatric hospital. two suicide attempts in my early twenties. CBT, psychodynamic psychotherapy, anti depressants etc.

At my lowest I genuinely wanted to kill my stepfather, and actively at some point tried to hunt him down for revenge. Thankfully I didn't succeed, essentially whats the point? my actions won't change the past, and to a degree they would make me nearly as bad as him.

It wasn't until my early thirties when I worked in the training side of the police that I started dealing with it and I chose to use it to spur me on rather than let the past hold me back. I had the help of great friends who helped me get myself into the mindset I now have.

Of course there will always be lingering thoughts, but in the most that part of my life drives me forwards rather than looking back.

Apologies for the somewhat personal post, but, sometimes you need to highlight the position that you're coming from.

The death penalty has no place in a modern civilised society.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

InOh Arthur, that's terrible. People have tried to bully/abuse/harass me because of my disability throughout my life, but sexual abuse has never been a part of it. I can't begin to imagine what it's like.

I read your post last night and have respect for you for being so honest about this, not that you've done anything wrong. It's good that this taboo is at last being spoken about.

I've often wondered if it's worse for boys/men who have been sexually abused by men than it is for girls/women.

This is because as well as all the issues that females face, males have the added burden of being expected to be strong by society and fighting them off.

Because they couldn't, they may fear that others may think that they didn't mind it and are secretly gay.

I often have Radio 4 on in the background and thought of you this morning when an article about this very subject came on.

I've provided a link in case you want to listen to it. Amongst other things it touches upon help available, how relationships in adult life can be affected and the taint of homosexuality.

Interestingly, the vast majority of men who sexually abuse boys are connected to the church.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b082vys4

The relevant article is from about 0:25.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Thank you for sharing your story, it must have been hard to write.

Back to the migrant kiddie rapist...

Do an adult crime then serve the adult punishment. Does anyone here believe that if it had anyone other than a migrant it wouldn't have been immediate jail time?

Never mind as some have said, lock up then deport. Why pay tens of thousands to keep them in custody? Round up the entire family and down to Heathrow direct from the court.

Death penalty absolutely DOES have a place in society. It's not about it being a deterrent, it's about punishing the guilty and protecting society by ensuring they can't do it again.

If it deters that's a bonus.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

In the past few days it appears that there has been widespread abuse of young footballers, with more and more coming out each day:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/s...3#post35871733

I don't think that the perpetrators should be executed though.

One of my main reasons is because those carrying out paedophiliac activities will be more afraid than ever of being caught.

If they fear being executed upon discovery, so what's the best way to silence a child for good?

I fear that it will lead to paedophile activity and then lead onto murder and an abused child has some hope of recovering, but a dead child has no hope at all.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

So you would be happy if someone was put to death and later found to be innocent.

Unless you can prove 100% in all instances that someone is guilty then it has no place in our society.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/...nares-innocent

The death penalty has no place in a civilised society

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

In your opinion. One not shared by everyone.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

When does everyone share the same opinion ?

The crime is appalling and the rehabilitation order a nonsense, but people seem to see the word 'migrant' and that makes in 10 times worse in their eyes somehow (if that's possible).

Guilty or innocent the death penalty has never solved anything; very little evidence it serves as a deterrent in those countries that have it.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

It doesn't deter, years ago we used to hang children for stealing food, it didn't deter them as they didn't think they'd get caught or because they thought the crime was worth the risk.

It makes me question if those people don't want to live in a civilised society, to me the very definition of a civilised society is that you aren't put to death if innocent, I'm sure a pardon and an apology is of great comfort to those wrongly killed in the past. You only have to look at America where over 100 people on death row have been exonerated since dna testing became common or how many times more likely you are to be given a death sentence if you're poor or black than if you're white or rich.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

It deters the person responsible from ever doing it again.
It will also deter some others (a lot more than than the thought of prison) which is good enough, nothing will deter some people of course.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Especially the ones who didn't do it in the first place....

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I don't care if it's a migrant, black, chinese, asian or white a 15 year old doing what they did gets a custodial sentence not a waste of time rehabilitation order, if the migrant thing does anything it helps fuel the knuckle draggers. That said there seems to be an attitude endemic to certain cultures about unacceptable sexual behaviour that they don't change when they come to western countries.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Nail meet head

---------- Post added at 21:20 ---------- Previous post was at 21:18 ----------

A very quick google of numerous studies suggest you're wrong

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------


'The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.'

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

:zzz:

---------- Post added at 21:22 ---------- Previous post was at 21:21 ----------

I suggest I'm not. Studies can (and are) used to suggest anything people want.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Stunning comeback......

---------- Post added at 21:23 ---------- Previous post was at 21:23 ----------

You're wrong

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Again, your opinion, nothing more. Your equally wrong (IMO).

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

You're grammatically wrong.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

i have to disagree.

Your opinion is based on anecdote, academic studies are based on peer-reviewed evidence and findings.

One approach follows the scientific method, the other is just surmising...

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

You are free to disagree, but you wont change my opinion.

To suggest that it would not deter anyone is just plain nonsense.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Never suggested that - but innocent people have been executed.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

'14 Days in May' a haunting documentary that made my mind up about the death penalty. A BBC camera crew followed a young poor black man on death row. He turned out to be innocent, which wasn't known at the time of filming or proved till after his death.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20...t-1_shortfilms

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Plus if you are going to implement the death penalty you would want some evidence it does deter crime. States which abolished the death penalty in the US didn't see a rise in crime and there is no noticeable difference between those states which have and which do not although that's harder to measure.

I think the people who commit crimes worthy of a death sentence are not think clearly or do not live the the same lives. The guy who wrote The Wire pointed out the people in the drug trade were far more concerned and likely to be killed by each other rather than the state.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Locking them up also doesn't deter crime, so theoretically, in principle we should scrap prisons or indeed another other punishment.:rolleyes:

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

No because prison protects others. You can't deter everyone and again not everyone really cares about the deterrent because they've got nothing to lose or they're just not of a mind that is relatable to us.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

That assumes that they get sent to prison in the first place, as with this case. They are also released at some point.

If you are going to use an argument that the death penalty doesn't deter crime, then automatically you have to accept that as prison doesn't deter crime that should also be abolished.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Actually, he didn't make that argument - he said there was no evidence that the death penalty reduced crime.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Why? Prison protects others by taking people out of free society. It servers a purpose other than deterrence, it can also be used to rehabilitate people to try and reduce reoffenders.

The argument against the death penalty is primarily that mistakes can be made and, in my view, that state shouldn't kill people if it doesn't absolutely have to. If it's not a deterrent either then it offers no advantages over prison but comes with the added risk of executing innocent people. Plenty of people have been cleared of their crimes on death row, sadly some were cleared after they're execution.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I don't think anyones suggested that.The death penalty is simply about society's revenge on a killer .Revenge has no place in the justice system .The reason why the death penalty is no deterrent is because the largest part of murders happen on the spur of the moment with no thought given to the consequences

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Oh yes. I've seen immigrants just grab hold of womens breasts because in their culture it's perfectly acceptable to do this as women are little more than objects of meat to be enjoyed by men.

They soon get shown the door, that's not if the woman hasn't done it first!

I think that we're all capable of murder in the right circumstances, especially in the heat of the moment.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Rehabilitate people, yeah right.:rolleyes:

There will be one-off offenders who don't need rehabilitating, then there will be others who are not exactly first time offenders by the time they get sent to prison, and then there are those where it is simply part of their mindset and those they associate with.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

So do i and as such would we stop and think "i won't kill the bloke i just found in bed with my wife because we have the death penalty" i don't think so

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I'd kill the wife instead and go have a drink with the bloke!:D

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I'd "rehabilitate" him with a selection of sharp implements applied to his nether regions.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Oh we're so posh and over precious aren't we ? :rolleyes:

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

I was all for the death penalty (a few years back). That was until I researched the inns and outs of it's deterrance etc.
It doesn't deter criminals from committing crimes and there is the problem of executing an innocent person......which does happen.
Not in favour :(

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

The talk of reinstating the death penalty would go away if life actually meant life if you take a life you should spend the rest of yours locked up not the twisted way it is now where people get more prison time for robbery's then murder.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

That is what the public were promised when the death penalty was abolished, that life would mean life, if they knew then what we'd have today they would never have countenanced it's abolition

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:42 ----------

I thought it more funny than precious but each to their own I guess

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

No he's "educated" didn't you know?

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Wow!

When did being 'educated' become derogatory?

Doctors are 'educated', scientists are 'educated' - without them, we would be in a pretty poor place...

When did lack of knowledge become a positive thing?

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Like with all things Hugh it's how it's demonstrated that usually decides positive or negative and this forum is often a good example.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

Mr K is.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

If they'd been raping 5 YEAR OLDS yhey should

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

They're classed as 'experts' and members of 'the elite'. For some reason the idea of other people being an authority on a subject is seen as undemocratic and arrogant. Look at vaccines, global warming, warnings over sugar etc. The view of a Doctor on vaccines is treated just as worthy as the view on vaccines from someone who studied English at Oxford. It's how Melanie Phillips took on the entire medical profession over vaccines simply by dismissing them all as elites, she knew better.

Re: Migrant found GUILTY of Raping boy 5, given Rehabilitation Order
 

You've omitted to quote the reason I gave for my belief ie that the perpetrator is more likely to kill the child to permanently silence them through murder if they fear being executed if caught.

A child at least has a chance to recover from their ordeal and get on with their life with the right support if they are kept alive.

For those looking for revenge, I think that being imprisoned for a long time is much more of a punishment than being quickly and painlessly executed (which is how our society would do it in the unlikely event that the death penalty was reintroduced). They will be labeled as a 'Nonce' and I imagine will be bullied by other prisoners (there is a hierarchy even in prison) or have to stay in solitary confinement for their own safety.

For those like me who believe in the afterlife, their spirit/soul will become free (though what happens to them for doing such an wicked thing on Earth is a subject for another thread).

For those who believe that death is the end, it will all go black, they will have no consciousness and will have effectively got away with no punishment.