How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37941426

Seems a simple idea..I wonder if it can work?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

It would be nice if it worked as sadly as most of us know the current unaffordable housing and social housing crisis we have currently is going to take some considerable time if ever to sort out as we need policies and politicians that think of UK housing long term instead of the short term policies we sadly have had for decades.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

I wouldn't give it more than a few years. The problem I see is that you create a 'priviledged? set' who are tied to properties that dont go up in value much and who may not be able to move out into other properties.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Probably worse than renting. The allowed increase wouldn't cover the mortgage interest due when it came to selling it. They would face a bill for that.

They are being subsidised by getting the land for free.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

The only way to stop the growth of the bubble would be to build more homes than were required. And with the present demand that would take a building revolution which we are always told is "planned" but never happens.

Oh, and make buy-to-let a lot less easy and lucrative for the vultures.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Done.

"Not long ago it was the investment for choice of the middle classes. "My buy-to-let is my pension," was the refrain of the two million strong army of small landlords.

But in less than two years this form of investment has been all but destroyed.

A series of tax and regulatory changes, spearheaded by former Chancellor George Osborne, has left landlords reeling - even though the full implications are yet to be felt.

Middle-class mortgaged landlords will be hardest hit, with the retirement plans of many thrown into disarray.

Large-scale landlords and those operating as companies will escape largely unscathed, however.

Last year the buy-to-let boom peaked, with a 26pc rise in lending to investors and £15.6bn lent to landlords to buy property. "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing...-in-16-months/

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

That'll be the "vultures" that provide millions of people with a roof over their head then.

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:44 ----------

Making this the only type of business where you are taxed on turnover and not profit. Wonder if they'll apply the same rules to Starbucks et al...

All that's going to happen is that rents are going to sky rocket.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

And this scheme..got any opinions on that?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Clause 24? - I can't think of any other business where you don't get tax relief on a loan you took out to run the business.

There are going to be some landlords out there where the tax bill exceeds what's left after you take the interest and management fees off the rent.

Only realistic outcomes are

1. Landlords hike the rent up to at least a level where they aren't out of pocket

2. They go under, house gets repossessed and tenants get made homeless. Putting more pressure on the local authority.

Either way the real losers are the people actually renting and the rest of us paying the Council Tax.

I'm all for level playing fields, so when the government goes to the likes of Tesco, British Gas, BP et al and says

"Sorry about this, but you have to now pay tax on those interest charges for the loans you took out to buy equipment..."

Was that a squadron of stealth bomber pigs flying past my window :Yikes:

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Taking out a loan to buy equipment is very different to a loan to buy what is seen as an asset. The house will retain or even increase its value, where equipment will depreciate in value.

As the cost of the loan is retained in the value of the house, any rent is relatively pure profit. By renting it out you are partially "selling" the house. If you sold the house you might be liable for Capital Gains tax.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Mmm because they're in to benefit the tenants aren't they...

Wakey wakey

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

In the same way that farmers produce food only for their own benefit.:rolleyes:

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

So they do it for the good of the people and then their own financial improvement/stability secondary?

and you believe this ?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Anyone who works or invests does it to earn money.
QED.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Which was the point i was making... Profit first, care of tenants secondary. Hence my agreement of the 'vultures comment'

Whilst I'm sure there are a degree of B2L landlords who do they're best for their long term tenants. The vast majority want the maximum amount of money for the minimum amount of effort. We've all seen some of the horror stories.

So two options

1) Embark on a massive program of social/low cost affordable housing which can ONLY be purchased by the individual (not B2L)

2) Move towards a more US based model of acceptance that not everyone owns their own home.

I'd much prefer option 1, I suspect option 2 is the more likely model based on current progression.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

I'd call having a roof over your head quite a big benefit wouldn't you?

Of course the landlord also benefits, as does the letting agent, the electrician, the plumber, the handyman...

Think you need to wake up to economic reality.

Or do you think your boss/employer is a blood sucking vampire as well? If they don't make a profit how long do you think your job will last?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Depends, if that roof is on a house, that is warm & secure, not filled with damp, doesn't make you ill then yes, I'd agree.

I work for an employer that whilst they expect long hours and hard work, pay very very good wages with fantastic employee benefits. They also firmly believe in training and retaining their staff.

Compare that perhaps to a 0hrs contract where you have to come in early before your shift and not get paid for it

One is fair, one is exploitation.

Just because the former is rarer, it doesn't make the latter any more justifiable.

I

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

All at cost to the taxpayer if full housing benefit is being claimed by the tenant. A free house at the end of the mortgage at no cost to the landlords.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

And what he said...

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

So the alternative to that is not to allow private landlords to have tennants who are on housing benefit.

Local councils would then have to house them in B&B at a greater cost to the community.

Your call Taf.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

You could potentially argue that with the cap in housing benefits private landlords wont have tenants who are on housing benefit anyway due to them being unable to afford the rent in the first place.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Not all Landlords are that bad. I live in an MOD where one tennant is on HB. The Landlord understands his plight and does not ask him for the extra as he knows he can't afford it.

I must admit he is one of the few that would do that though.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

B2L has been a great inflationary measure pushing the cost of "affordable housing" out of reach or many, if not most buyers.

And HMG is very aware of this, hence all the changes to Housing Benefit to try to curb the inflationary increases in rents in the B2L sector. And perhaps to make it less and less attractive to "investors" who aren't "investing" anything apart from their own self interests.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

It is a complex situation.
Do you punish the "normal" person who has invested in a property to provide income? Or to help a family member or friend?
Do you punish people who have invested in their property to get/help a price increase. This may be decades of "investment". And lots of money.

If all prices fell evenly then it makes it easy to move up and the differences also fall but it would hit those who are moving down. It would also hit those with large mortgages put into negative equity. They can't now sell off to pay the debt and start again.

We "know" who we want to hit but how do you frame that in a way that is specific and difficult to avoid?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

totally agree with the first part. but about the second there is an alternative - to make property less attractive asset for foreign investors (chinese particularly) to decrease demand

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Landlords have bills to pay the same as everyone else, including you. If HB doesn't cover the bills, the tenants get evicted, simple economics. If not house gets repossessed and they still get evicted, this time though the letting agent et al have also now lost income.

Everyone loses.

You still don't get it do you?

Let's put it this way, your wages also support - council workers, Tesco staff, petrol station attendant etc, do you get it yet?

I know, how about the government caps your wages and gives it to someone else more deserving, you clearly will have no problem with that will you?

Thought not.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

I'd like something done about 'tourist' investors like the Russians and Chinese who purchase housing and never ever let it out to anyone..

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Why would they rent it out? They won't get paid, the place will be trashed, and you can't get rid of them. Then there is all the expense and hassle of dealing with the rules and regulations.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Is it any surprise that housing has, for many, become an investment given that their pensions have turned to dust, the stock market is very risky and hard earned savings pay virtually nothing in interest and are being eroded by inflation? What are these people supposed to do? They're not all **** bag landlords and multi-millionaire property developers. Far from it.

IMHO not many people would bother being landlords if they could get any sort of return anywhere else. It's a whole lot of hassle and not without considerable financial risk for those unlucky enough to have tenants who exploit the system to their own benefit e.g. sub letting, failing to pay the rent, refusing to vacate, damaging the property etc. etc. etc.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

A bit of a sweeping statement there..Not everyone who rents is a deadbeat.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

I rent and I hope I'm not one.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

By your criteria anyone who gets paid to provide a service is therefore a vulture :confused:

---------- Post added at 21:37 ---------- Previous post was at 21:35 ----------

So you work to make money? You vulture! ;)

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

Many/most landlords are using interest only mortgages.

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------

One of our tenants had his contract come up for renewal. He explained that he couldn't afford to pay any more so we left his rent at the same amount for the next three years as he's a very good tenant.
We've also rented out another flat to a HB tenant without a credit check simply because he desperately needed a ground floor dwelling due to his brain injury and was getting kicked out of his last place.
Not all landlords are vultures :(

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

@Ramrod, I agree entirely with you. I'm lucky to have a good one.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Apart from their hard earned money?
On top of that, after the process of finding a property, which can take a lot of time and effort (losing properties when you are out-bid or finding that there is a insurmountable defect), we have to pay stamp duty, solicitors fees, estate agents fees (in many cases), mortgage set up fees and surveyors fees. Thats to 'simply' buy the property. Then we have to refurbish (or gut and re-do) the property in order to bring it up to a decent, livable standard. That involves negotiating with builders, plumbers, electricians, getting quotes, overseeing building work and paying for it. Then we have lettings agents fees, landlords insurance, yearly electrical & gas certificate costs. Ongoing refurb costs.....etc. This assumes that I get a decent tenant who doesn't damage the property which would mean more hassle and cost.
You think this is easy? It's a job. It's simply another way of earning a living and might, if I'm lucky, contribute to my pension when I retire. But in order to realise that profit (which is pretty negligable whilst I'm actually being a landlord) I have to sell the properties at a profit at some point in the future. Selling costs money in fees and of course the govt will take capital gains tax from my profit as well.
So explain to me again how I'm investing nothing other than my self interest? :dozey:

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

No. That'll be the "vultures" that are busy buying up council estates for a pittance, demolishing them, then arguing with the local council when the local council has the temerity to insist that a given percentage of the properties they build on the land be sold at an"affordable" price.

It will also be the vultures that are buying up houses, dividing them into studio flats and renting them out for a fortune.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

I think there should be protections to stop people buying up dozens and dozens of housing but the real problem is with the lack of supply, the renter/landlord system works well if it's a real option rather than the only one.

At the very least the government should make it easier to build without facing a dozen legal challenges (applies to infrastructure as well) but really allowing local authorities to build would be a good idea too. It's not as if it wouldn't be easy to shift the homes.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

@Ramrod, elecectrical certification is 5 yearly. Only gas is yearly.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Thats your only take from his post :dozey:

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Not at all. I agree with him and working in the building trade know all the hoops and expenses landlords have to go through.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Saw a client last night who rents from a private landlord.

Out of curiosity I asked how long they had been there? 6 years.

How often has the rent gone up? NEVER.

Funnily enough the landlord prefers a good tenant (couple with young family) who pay every month on time and doesn't hassle them as they look after the property.

t's what we call a WIN-WIN

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Not all landlords are bad and not all renters are bad..Can we accept that and actually discuss this issue rather than getting all defensive about it?

All I wanted to know was if the original idea I posted has any feasibility and so far everyone has piled in attacking landlords and renters..and yes I did suggest that absentee (foreign) landlords that sit on housing and never rent out are making the situation worse.

Can we ever provide affordable housing to rent or should we look for ways to help young families get into their own home?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

The ones that are bought purely for investment and never rented out, tend to be at the top end of things. They are never going to affordable.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

But that's part of the issue. If the higher end prices are rising disproportionately then people can't move "up" so they stay in "lower" properties and extend and work on them. And that makes those "lower" properties more expensive both supply and because they are extended/improved

This knocks on down the chain to the bottom.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Again no one actually answers questions I pose.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Don't the "lower" properties need improving whichever way you look at it. The buyers at the upper end are handing over money to the developers, thereby financing more developments, possibly at the lower end.

---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

I did in post #4.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Short answer -NO, longer answer - still NO

that would require the government (of whatever colour) to pony up billions of pounds for capital expenditure and there isn't any going..

well part that is from 50 billion for HS2 which no-one seems to want.

we are still giving India around 60m/year despite the govt saying it would stop all aid by Dec. 15. Quite why we are giving them money when they have an active space launch programme...

as for the rest of the 12.2 billion foreign aid budget, well, try and find out exactly where it is going...

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Because that's the only way to make money out of a big house (short of demolition and building smaller dewllings on the site if the plot is big enough).......and it provides more dwellings than the original layout which makes the council and government happy.

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

Sorry, I was in full rant :D

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

That will probably only happen if we build lots more housing or decrease the population. (supply and demand) :shrug:

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Somehow l cannot see the population decreasing RR any time soon so l think as we all know we need a considerable increase in the amount of housing we build.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

To do that and keep homes affordable in the way Maggie is putting forward the the price of land needs to come down or be heavily subsidised. The cost of land makes up at least 50% of the cost of a new build.

No need to apologise.;)

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

There is also the problem of housebuilding developers sitting on some of their land.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...uild-on-green/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...supply-of-new/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...developed-land

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

The combination of a rapidly growing population, a small crowded island and all the infrastructure required to support large scale, environmentally sensitive new housing and services isn't conducive to cheap property. There's no way HMG can build sufficient new homes to force prices down significantly in places like the South East.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

So what. The problems are getting planning permission and lack of ability to increase rates of building. Those same problems exist whoever owns or controls it.:rolleyes:

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

There is also plenty of short-termism and lack of long term planning from all governments of the last 40 years plus as they knew our population was going to increase considerably with regards to going forward many decades and did diddly squat about building more housing and the infrastructure that we needed to go with it.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

How many people did Labour say would come over from Eastern Europe and how many actually came?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

l am talking about all governments who have been in power for the last 40 years plus be it Labour or Conservative who never formed any any cohesive plan on house building policy going forward and this is one of the reasons why we have a big shortage of housing stock now and sadly its going to take decades if ever to sort it out sadly.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

The main influx happened before 2010. They are building as fast as they can. There is no shortage of housing stock. There is an abundance of people that consider themselves entitled to be housed, when in the past they wouldn't have been.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

UK population growth to 2014:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33266792

The numbers haven't improved much since either.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulati...n/february2016

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

So going from 150,000/year in 1997 to 500,000/year in 2008 isn't a problem?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Another classic from the Chancellor today to help nobody. Getting rid of letting agent fees. All that will happen is rents going up for everybody; do you think he does 'thinking'?

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Tricky one......it is silly to put the onus for paying agents fees onto the landlords as that will probably put up rents (though it's claimed that it hasn't in Scotland). On the other hand, some lettings agents are charging stupid money from renters and that needs to change as well.
Then again, it's difficult to cap agents fees whilst by putting the onus for paying onto landlords it might just drive down fees since landlords are probably in a better position to drive a hard bargain on the fees than renters are.
It might be a good idea after all (though as a landlord it's not great-but I have other methods anyway)
On balance, I'd say that what he's done is a good thing :tu:

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

Not sure where you got that idea. It's a huge problem IMHO as alluded to in my previous post*:

* not to mention numerous others in thread s like the 'unstoppable migration'.

Re: How to keep house prices low for generations to come
 

It used to be called 'Key Money' and was made illegal in 1977.

It then came back as Letting Agents fees and is being abolished again and quite rightly too.

It's a form of scam to make even more out of desperate people, or if it is covering the agents fees, this is something the landlord should pay.

It would be like a supermarket during a food shortage charging a fee to get in to cover their running costs and advertising.