Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

There's been a lot of discussion about what we should do with regards to EU migrants on the political programmes today.

It does look like we will not be able to get what we want from the EU without accepting free movement, which I'm happy to say our Government will not accept, so questions are now being asked as to what we do with any migrants over here.

Some will say send them all back, some will be more liberal and say that they should all be allowed to stay.

My view is that each person should be considered on their merits and questions should be asked about what they have brought to the UK.

Do they work?

Are they claiming any benefits (even if working)?

Have they broken the law, if so to what extent?

Do they work in a skill shortage area?

Have they started a successful business, particularly relevant if they employ others?

What recourse to public funds have they had? Eg what are they likely to take out when compared to what they put in eg do they use a lot of NHS resources or are they likely to in the near future?

Have they carried out any laudable activities that are beneficial to wider society as a whole eg voluntary work or have they put others first by helping someone who was drowning or trapped in a fire etc.

What questions/criteria (if any) would you like to see?

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Any EU migrants here before we leave the EU and change the rules are here legally.

and therefore should and must be allowed to stay.

Change the rules going forward of course, but we can't retrospectively start weeding people out and deporting them.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

This :tu:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

+1

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

+2

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

An accord needs to be reached. How will the EU treat British people working/living in their Countries? For now, that puts me in the 'Depends' camp.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

That's a good point.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

If they are here working or studying with a legitimate placement then no we should not make them leave, after the whole process of exiting the EU is over their future will likely be dependent on agreed terms. I hope there is no expulsion of citizens from the EU that were here legitimately as that would be an over reaction though i do support training british citizens up to fill the skills gap we have in some sectors that necessitated outside professionals coming here. Whatever the political outcome between the UK and the EU i hope we continue our close relationship with some of our european neighbours which pre-dated the EU.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

No, they are perfectly entitled to be here.

If you started making them leave, then those countries would also be allowed to send all the British folk living in the EU home. Which would just create a big mess.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I have two points on this.

1) IF, they have jobs and pay into the economy of this Country. AND not claiming benefit. I have no problem.

2) A couple of months ago, we heard that a Migrant came into the country, and started claiming benefit. And demanded a large house for his family. This is totally wrong. We have families already here that would jump at the chance of this happening

3 and finally. We must have thousands of people, young and old looking for work. But migrants will take ANY job to get money. Therefore, employers will reduce the wage structure to take them on.

It hard enough to survive in this country.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Agreed :tu:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

And would your point of view change if EU Countries 'take the initiative' and start sending British folk home when Article 50 is invoked?

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

They won't

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

It's a two way street ,EU migrants will lose the right to live and work here just as British migrants will lose the right to live and work in France,Germany,Belgium etc .Eu migrants will also lose the right to housing and welfare payments so a portion would most likely decide themselves to leave with very little pushing because there will be very little benefit to remaining

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

And those (which i suspect are the majority) that aren't on benefits and are making a positive contribution to society?

I can see so many of the feckless twonks who refuse to go to work as it is suddenly leaping out of bed at 3am to go and pick sprouts in North Lincolnshire

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

And you are sure of that because...

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I think a compromise is in order. For every EU national deported Remainers get to deport a UK national. I have a list.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I have a better compromise, for every EU national deported we also deport a remainer. They get to stay in the EU that way... :D

I fully expect a flood of remainers exiting the UK anyway given how bad it's going to be here now we're leaving that wonderful club. ;)

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

If you have independent income, a pension perhaps, and you are "not a burden on the state of the host nation", then you will almost always be allowed to stay. But that should include your spouse and other members of the family not born in that country.

If you think "the majority" of migrants are not receiving benefits of some sort, you would probably be shocked. And even more so when you realise many pay in a LOT less than they receive. Especially amongst the unskilled migrants from A8 countries. I know as I have seen the paperwork of quite a few.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

because your question was if EU Countries 'take the initiative' and start sending British folk home when Article 50 is invoked?

any movement by EU countries INCLUDING Britain would be illegal under EU law. We still need to act within the agreed law until we agreed what will happen and as such at the end of article 50 and/or any extension. Wouldn't be good for negotiation otherwise. Only after we left can such items happen and only if permitted under terms of agreement

and beside the fact, EU didn't vote to drop Britain out so I don't see why their incentive of deporting considering how so many CF members thinks that all Britain abroad contribute so much to Europe

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Of those who'll not be missed. :D

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Absolutely.

From the research that I've done on this, the "they pay in more than they take out" argument was true before the poorer Eastern European migrants started coming.

These people take out more than they put in.

---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:38 ----------

The majority so far seem to be in favour of us allowing people to stay.

I'm interested as to whether people think that this should also apply to those convicted of criminal activity, or who have never worked to any great extent or are a burden on our NHS etc?

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

https://fullfact.org/immigration/do-...-they-receive/

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I wonder who is fiddling those figures? Those that I know earn a lot more in Tax Credits and Housing / Council Tax Benefits plus Child Benefit and are not taxed so only pay National Insurance.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

It could be your anecdotal data is not representative of the wider dataset. It also depends where you live obviously. I.E EU migrants in London are probably big contributors.

It's always quite hard though. I think most people in the UK take out more than they put in though. When you think about schooling costs, healthcare costs and then the huge pension bill compared to our productive years then we're probably dependent on very high earners. Even then we're running a deficit.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Yes :sleep:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

The figures I quoted were from Migration Watch on Question Time. I guess it's a case of their being statistics, more statistics and damn lies!!

Whichever are correct, I think that there's a bigger picture to this issue than monetary factors (although these are important) eg extra immigrants usually need somewhere to live and push up rents & house prices for others, doctors surgeries can't cope etc.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Except fullfact are an independent organisation, whilst Migration Watch are fairly open about their agenda.... ;)

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

It's very difficult to measure as they say themselves eg do we count the cost of educating any children they have??

Even if it's accepted that we do make a profit from them, at what cost though?

This average profit could be increased by taking into account which ones are worth keeping and which are unprofitable.

There would be less pressure on housing, the NHS etc, whilst the Government could reassure people that the ones allowed to remain are putting in more than they take out.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Bring in a points system, and stick to it.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I'm inclined to agree.

Also, lot of people who have left the UK to live elsewhere in the EU are pensioners.

As such, they usually buy their own housing, have an independent income from their UK pensions and don't normally require work.

Many return to the UK if they become very ill or elderly as they prefer our NHS.

This is a complete contrast to the migrants coming here and whilst eg Spain would have a moral argument for sending our pensioners back, they'd be foolish to do so.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

definitely not ,we already have a points based system for immigrants outside the EU and that works great ...not

any system introduced that allows immigrants in by default because they meet certain criteria is not good ,they must be treated on a case by case basis.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

The majority of the UK population pay in less than they receive across their lifetimes.

I would imagine this is very area dependent.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I would expect it depends how long you live.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

My bad. The majority pay less per year than they are receiving. About 40% of households only are net contributors.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

:tu:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

How many people use the hand car washes that have sprung up all over the country?

My local once charges £5, It doesn't matter what the weather is they are there working. The ones near me are heavily staffed by immigrants who have come over to better themselves.

The service they provide is superb, they even make me a tea or a coffee while I'm waiting

I don't see this work ethic in natives who are at the lower end of the wage sector in the UK

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I agree, they are following Norman Tebbits advice from the 80's and getting on their bike to find a job, just on a wider scale. Should be admired really

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Of course its always the easiest option to blame Johnny Foreigner for all this countries ills as is now sadly the case.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

It's the price we pay for the "Everybody wins prizes" and "You can be anything you want to be" PC nonsense. Some people won't accept that they're only ever going to be menial labour and would rather sit on their backsides watching Jeremy Kyle hoping Macawber like that something will come along.

It's the same culture that lets them get away with it. :rolleyes:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I do believe that you if you're prepared to work/sacrifice (and i mean work and sacrifice) that in the vast majority of cases you can improve your circumstances. But there are a tiny minority who for whatever reason will be stuck in the low paid labour sector.

I think the biggest problem in our society lies with the belief that a vast majority of people (IMHO) think that they are entitled to things such as LED TV's Sky and/or Virgin (You can of course argue that internet is a basic human right) without putting in the required effort or sacrifice.

A lack of work ethic & a sense of self entitlement. BUT it's very easy for me to say that.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

:tu:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Those same people get right on my wick. I wouldn't let them near my car. I can clean my own car and I don't do it in the rain. Duh. Meanwhile I have to put up with them interrupting me when I go shopping and making tea in spaces that are there for parking. Or they want to squeegee my windscreen; will their insurance cover any inadvertent damage btw? :sleep:.

You don't see that 'work ethic' in the natives because the natives are no longer slave to the gentry. You're perpetuating a social class you claim to abhor.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

These "car washers" are up to the same trick as the "scrap metal collectors" and "Big Issue vendors".

Access to Benefits by doing a menial job for the minimum hours required, all at income levels that mean no Income Tax.

So a year of menial work, then you can sit back and rake it all in....

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:39 ----------

Old, but still true...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...g-benefit.html

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Horses for courses. I sometimes clean my car. and in winter even if it is raining the car gets cleaned once a week salt build up etc.

The only thing I abhor is that the percentage of people in the UK who whinge about people 'coming over here, taking our jobs' would at best last a day doing the work in the conditions that migrants work in.

I certainly couldn't do it.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:20 ----------

So, therefore they just setup the car washes, work for a year. then they close so they can claim benefits, is that the suggestion? If so, have any evidence to support it?

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

How often are people at these car washes being paid the minimum wage though? We shouldn't encourage a race to the bottom.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I completely agree.

The point i was trying to make is that low paid migration workers will continue to be needed until people in the UK are prepared to take the work on. Something i suspect that may never occur.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

So can you find me a migrant to clean my boots and wipe my rear end please? The job can later be taken on by some Council estate kid, the lazy sod.

I'm suprised you approve of low paid workers doing such menial tasks. You are a Lord of the Manor aren't you? I thought you were anti-toff?

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I mean the idea that people who do menial tasks will be paid less is pretty obvious....

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I actually agree with you there and have said so many times on this forum .We know that there is plenty of work because of the amount of migrants that come here to work .Even if a percentage work on the black market ( local car wash) i suspect most will work legit at places like Subway or Burger King even in construction and even if the pay is low it does give people a chance to better themselves ,watching Jeremy Kyle will not .The only thing stopping our home grown twonks from picking sprouts is themselves

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

But as you say, I don't think we should encourage a race to my bottom.:)

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Precisely

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

We could keep those who are doing jobs that employers find hard to fill.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Agree completely :tu:

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

Yep. Thats's why I'm looking askance at Labours call to increase the minimum wage to £10/hour.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Bah, bloody foreigners (not them, you) :D.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Speaks as someone who has a Polish guy working in the same company I say this.

Those who are working should stay, those who are here only to claim benefits should be told to leave.

Those with non minor criminal records should also be removed.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

+1

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I mean in paying people below minimum wage, paid less is relative to people who do less than menial work.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I wonder how many of them are paying tax? This nonsense is what made me want to leave the EU 10 years ago, anyone would think we never coped or built anything before the polish got here, when all they did imo was undercut British workers and force them out of the marketplace.

Based on my considerable experience I'd say you're right, the days are gone when the polish would do all the hours god sent and live three to a room, I see it all the time now, can't do overtime as it'll affect my tax credits etc and tbh that's the reason why I voted remain, the reasons I had for leaving like them making the minimum wage the norm were no longer relevant.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

My guess would be none making anyone who uses their services complicit in defrauding the state.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Rubbish,.They may not be paying tax but would they anyway on minimum wage ? and i know loads of home grown people working on the black market it's more common than you think and i know even more home grown people taking everything they possibly can from the state.What's concerning is that when Brexit happens and we lose this supply of labour where will it come from because from experience our own lot are pretty useless unless they are getting fortunes every week for very little actual work .

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

We are not discussing the so-called home grown black market, we are discussing foreigners on the take who are supported by mugs like you who want their lorry washed on the cheap.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Yes we are ,that's where the migrants you are complaining about work .When they came over here to work they found a fully functional labour black market perfectly suited to employ thousands of migrants, started by our home grown workers who do not want to pay tax and NI.Our home grown fiddlers working for £40 a day had their nose put out of joint because the migrant workers did it for £25 a day

What makes you think i have a lorry :confused:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

The thread title is: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK? so let's stay focussed on the black market created by them and the unpatriotic amongst us (you for example) who support their fraud.

If you can't see where your preference for cheapskating will lead, may I suggest that the next time a black marketeer offers you two stout, short planks on the cheap, say no ;).

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

How do i support fraud ? i don't use a car wash and never have ,i work perfectly legit and pay my taxes every year,the fact that you don't want to speak about the home grown black market used by our own indigenous fraudsters to great effect and is the same one that migrants use speaks volumes about you .You seem very blinkered to the faults of our own lazy twonks .The other point you seem to forget is that you are assuming that all car washes or similar companies are using black market labour ,quite a few at least will be perfectly legit.

and another point you have conveniently missed is that the explosion of car washes has only happened since we started allowing thousands of migrants into the country so the question begs to asked ,why didn't our own home grown lazy twonks do the same, instead of crying that the government has left them to rot on the dole

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Off topic squirming :dozey:.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Well you certainly do plenty of that old boy so to say others do it is a bit like calling the kettle black.;)

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

In other words you can't answer the questions.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

A characteristically vacuous statement. Please explain further if you can?

I have no intention of wasting my time in debate with misogynists.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...5&postcount=88

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Richard, is that you?

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

l don't need to explain myself as you conveniently do it on a regular nature when it suits your agenda in debates where you like to insult others on a regular basis rather then what most people would do and that is articulate your points rationally and in a undiscriminating way.:)

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

So you can't explain your typically pointless comment? No surprises there then.:dozey:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

and you seem unable to explain why thousands of unemployed British people couldn't do what thousands of unemployed migrants could do ......go figure

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

Still waiting Den. Or do you think you might ease off on your "yes I agree that is what I was thinking" posting style?

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

l got better things to do today with family :) rather then react to someone who quite clearly likes to give it but sadly does not like it when posters throw reasonable and rational questions and points back in your direction.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

But I asked you a reasonable and rational question - I asked if you could please explain your statement? You can't of course.

Have a nice day :)

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

The two often go hand in hand though.

Having a job doesn't necessarily mean that they wont be on benefits.

Some even claim for children that have never set foot in the UK!

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

The government appears to disagree and would far rather use them as a bargaining tool.

We can all feel so proud.

https://twitter.com/HouseofCommons/s...65558829359104

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I don't see any indication of them being used as a bargaining tool in that statement :confused:

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

You just need to look harder. :D

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

The opportunity was there to affirm their status. It was left ambiguous. The government are on record as saying they consider them a bargaining tool.

Re: Should EU migrants be made to leave the UK?
 

I'm not surprised, they are simply units of economic production from a political POV.

If we're honest about it, they didn't come to the UK to benefit us, they came to improve matters for themselves.

In complete contrast, many elderly Polish people are here after helping us in WWII.