Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

A step in the right direction:
link
link

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Problem is that saying such things means a Fatwa or some such nonsense against the speakers

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

And in other news Pope wears a silly hat, and bear relieves himself in woods.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

And there have been several of those already martyh

One example.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6768191.html

Another.

https://www.rt.com/news/347012-musli...wa-terrorists/

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

It's the constant change in interpretation that has caused a lot of the problems. "Scholars" with political aims changing the meaning of whole phrases.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Just under two weeks prior to the killing of Lee Rigby > http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...ors-fight.html

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

This is very good news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36936658

The decent majority shouldn't have to prove it but by doing so they send a very important message to the extremists and those who might be vulnerable to radicalisation.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

that's the British B*llsh*t Corporation you're quoting there so don't be so sure:
Only A Few Hundred Muslims Attended ‘Solidarity’ Mass After Nice Attack :(

Imagine the Muslim response if some cartoons of Mohammed had been published.....

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Islam unlike christianity has not evolved with the modern world and will continue to resist doing so as the modern world in many aspects just cannot fit into islam and those who cannot or will not change will continue to get more violent as time goes on. Islam needs an overhaul but it just isn't going to happen sorry if this isn't politically correct but islam is ruled by men and it's the male side of the religion that benefits most from keeping it as it is.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

As apposed to Catholicism who have female popes, bishops, priests oh wait......

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Very amusing, quoting Breitbart as a credible alternative to the BBC...

Well played, that man... ;)

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Yep, and the BBC is totally unbiased :D
edit, to be fait to the BBC they did mention (at the bottom of the article) that 50 muslims attended the mass but it was left to Breitbart to point out that it was actually a poor showing.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

French media also noticed the "poor turnout" but didn't mention it until one outlet broke ranks.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

The Muslim community in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray also refused to bury the attacker or at least refuse to do anything but the basic process. http://news.sky.com/story/muslims-re...miche-10517064

This is the thing though. People demand Muslims speak out against these attacks but ignore them when they do and diminish gestures designed to show condemnation of the attacks.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

So true. The Daily Mail, Express, etc would be reluctant to run these stories as they are at odds with their Muslim hate message.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

It's not just segments of the media all the media either over or understates islam depending on their agenda but as more and more muslims are here ordinary people are getting to know them and having their views formed. The harshest critics of islam I've heard are from my muslim friends but they are also honest that they will not take or air those criticisms in their mosque. Like me they are middle aged and have a foot in each of the modernist and traditionalist camps but if they don't feel they can voice criticisms within their faith clearly at some point the faith will push them away.

No the catholic church is no different in attitudes to women as islam but generally catholics dont go round blowing themselves up or mass shoot unarmed people so pretty big difference.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

There has been a female pope besides which why bring catholicism into it, they're not the ones to blame for global terror according to these muslim writers.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

But only 20 years ago, Catholics were blowing others up and shooting others - how soon we forget...

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Yes northern ireland and Protestants were as bad but also not exactly a like for like is it and is not relevant to the fact that islam needs to change and modernise N.I wasn't completely about religious belief or the way to impose it on everyone.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Oh dear, sorry to shatter your comfortable world view :D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ad-police.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...riest-on-altar

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/152898...jacques-hamel/

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

This thread is a perfect example of what's wrong in the west islam is a problem, it's a problem that will not change but criticise it and out come the defenders for it. If something is a problem we used to believe that recognising and talking about problems was the way to handle it and if necessary aid change but due to political correctness a range of subjects can no longer be discussed or criticised unless you want to be called ignorant or racist. This thread isn't guilty of all of that but clearly some are not at ease with criticism of islam and if it hadn't migrated to the west wasn't the source of weekly killings I'd be all for burying my head and ignoring it but sadly it's on the doorstep of many in the west and will not adapt to the countries many of it's followers chose to come too.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

In fairness, and not to play down the seriousness of the death and devastation they were responsible for, the IRA attacks were nowhere near on the scale of what is being committed in the 'name of Islam'. Yes there were shootings - again with all due respect to the victims and their families - however their general MO was to phone a warning through to the police which at least gave some people a chance (albeit often not much) to evacuate.

I'm not suggesting that makes them any less evil but as such I don't agree the IRA are a legitimate comparison with these Islamic terrorists who want to cause as much death as possible.

---------- Post added at 05:38 ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 ----------

Really? How?

In my department I work with around 120 people and I'd estimate about 10% of them are Muslim. Unless it has been kept very quiet we've never had any problems. They don't wander about waving copies of their Qu'ran, they don't complain about Muslims being oppressed etc etc. OK it could be said people might modify their behaviour at work in order to keep their jobs etc but I have these people on my FB and they don't post anything about 'unbelievers' or supporting terrorism.

I'm made references to this before but when I lived in Leicester there were thousands of Muslims but at no time did I feel threatened, intimidated etc.

I won't ever agree that Islam is a problem however nobody seems ever able to answer the question of why these days it attracts far more nutters than other religions or faiths. I don't consider these terrorists and hate preachers to be true Muslims however they all claim to be doing it in the "name of Islam".

I don't remember any/as many committing such acts in the name of Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism etc. So something is drawing these idiots towards Islam and THAT is what I believe needs to addressed.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

some people just will not admit it is covered by these newspapers ,its all there at the click of the mouse if they can be bothered to look ;)

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

crikey, never knew sites like that existed - looking at some of the comments it looks like a site for the uneducated.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

It appears that the 50 muslims who attended were Ahmadiyya Muslims
link

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Or the believe everything they read brigade.;)

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Were they doing it globally? and was their objective to kill all the protestants because of their religious views or because they didn't want to part of the UK.

Trying to compare the troubles in N.I. to global Islamic Terrorism, is entirely pointless and deflects away from the issue.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

You are funny :) Post again when these positive Muslim stories are consistently on the front pages ..

---------- Post added at 11:27 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

Worse that that. The readers of this site post some really disturbing, openly racist comments.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

You said: Now you move the goalposts :dozey:

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

one could say the same thing regarding the majority of refugees that were/are fleeing to Europe but people have

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Really? I am wasting my time if you think briebart.com is your source of truth.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Islam is a problem because it seems to be far too easy for some believers to interpret the qu'ran in so many ways, it's a problem because it's leaders have conflicting views as to the meaning of the qu'ran. Islam will not change it does not move with the world and that is allowing a small group within islam to use it as an excuse to commit terrorism and daily atrocities.

As for leicester I've been there on and off my whole life and i know how much it's changed I've seen the businesses that were forced off the melton and belgrave road part of leicester in the late eighties and nineties by intimidation from predominately muslim members. Also had the joy of a little poster campaign in the early nineties of a white mans head being pulled back and his throat slit with the word "fun-damental" underneath and I've also been in the casualty department of the leicester royal three times when me and some friends made the mistake of walking down the melton road on our way back to the city centre when a gang of asian men laid into us telling us to stay out of their neighbourhood. Three times because like you i didn't believe it was anything more then trouble makers and one of our friends had family just past the asian community.

In 2001 i was a trainee at a centre in belgrave helping mainly asians to achieve their nvq 2 when the twin towers were attacked everyday for about five weeks following that i got threats on way too and from the centre and spat on by groups of young muslim males two of them i was helping. So I'm glad you had a great time in leicester Russ but it isn't all great and that city in two decades has changed massively some for the better but some for the worse and there is a growing resentment there which saddens me to see.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

There you go moving the goalposts again.
You were talking about mainstream papers not reporting some stories. I showed you that they are reporting those stories.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Lets leave this here. I think the wider audience can make there own minds up on the veracity and unbiased nature of briebart.com, Daily Mail, Express etc.

Each to their own, eh?

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Yes and one could also say that the majority of refugees aren't even refugees but economic migrants to

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

I will point out that anyone of any faith can take any document and twist it's meaning to suit their own agenda. It's happened many times across the time that the human race has worshipped deities. it is not confined to just one group..So let's not demonise just one particular group.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Nope. I'm afraid that I'm going to continue demonising (if that's the word you want to use) islam since it's the pre eminent religion of death and terror atm.
As you correctly say, any faith document can be twisted and if taoists or mormons start, on a worldwide industrial scale to bomb trains and buses, burn temples/churches, cut off heads, fly planes into buildings, lock pilots into cages and burn them alive, drive trucks through families etc......then rest assure that I'll be speaking out against them as well.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 ----------

We weren't talking about the veracity and unbiased nature of those rags. They are obviously biased. I was merely refuting your claim that the mainstream press don't report some stories. :shrug:

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Then I'm very disappointed.You are not the person I thought you were.:(

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

I think part of the problem here is few of us in the West really understand Islam and I would guess most of us only have a cursory 'middle-east for dummies' style overview of the major plot points of the region.

Can you imagine trying to explain to someone the Catholic/Protestant divide if they had little understanding of Christianity and only a basic knowledge of European/British/Irish history and culture? The issue of Northern Ireland, sectarianism in Scotland and the IRA (of which there is more than one!) would be hard to explain. We wouldn't be impressed with someone who distilled all of that into it being a problem with the religion because in many cases the religion is just a small part of it. The rest of it is cultural differences and historical injustices/grudges that have formed within communities and persisted. You couldn't explain 'the troubles' without explaining the history of the last 100 years, and in turn the history of Britain and Ireland, and in turn the history of the churches in conjunction with the history of Britain and Europe.

The issue isn't directly comparable to Islamic terrorism but it does serve as an example that there is a lot of nuance and other factors that contribute to conflicts between people other than their religion. The vast majority of Westerns do not know but the history between groups within the Middle-East. We do not know the different 'branches' of Islam or the divides within that. When faced with ignorance of a topic it's best not to assume the worst.

No one on here, I think, has said there isn't a problem with Islamic extremism but that is different to painting a broad brush and saying it's a problem with Islam itself or the people that follow it. We do know that the likes of ISIS have killed more Muslims than they have killed anyone else so it's clearly not a battle between Islam and us and for Westerners to it is would be to do the terrorists' work for them. It's not liberal do-goodery to object to the demonisation of 1.5 billion people.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Not the first time you've said that. Sorry 'bout that :(

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:49 ----------

I'm not saying that all muslims are terrorists. I'm simply objecting to the fact that the folowers of that faith are far more likely than the followers of any other faith to kill in the name of their faith. That's correct, it's a battle between that backward form of islam and everyone. If ISIS etc were dominant in western countries the death toll of westerners would quickly rise. The only reason that they have killed more muslims than westerners is because they have access to more muslims.What I object to when looking at the vast majority of (probably nominally peacful) muslims is that if someone disrespects the koran or the prophet then thousands will riot and protest in the streets but if an act of terror is carried out by someone who uses some passages in the koran as justification then the silence from the muslim world is broken only by their shouts of 'islamophobia'.
That has to change before we can get anywhere with this thorny problem.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Being a person of no faith I find the fact that most religions are run and were invented by men... I wonder why?

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Too much free time..

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

I am not sure anyone knows. What you're really asking is why did the Patriarchal society develop so early on in most societies? It isn't just religion but most societies quickly developed a male-dominated society. Even the first few examples of laws we see show women treated as second class citizens.

Maybe it's because physical strength would have mattered a lot more in early society and hunter-gather tribes etc. Maybe pregnancy caused a mythology to develop around the role of women. This is the kind of question that academics would spend their lives studying.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

You are deliberately being obtuse here. It is the frequency and prominence of the articles against Muslims that is the issue here.

The constant attempt to paint the entire Muslim community as enemies within, potential rapists and terrorists is *exactly* what ISIS want the West to do. By demonising Muslims, this will just create a culture of fear and mistrust and drive the young & impressionable Muslims towards radicalism.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Why do you think ISIS want to do this ?

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Here are some articles that discuss this proposition:

Hating Muslims plays right into the Islamic State’s hands

ISIS Needs the West to Alienate Its Muslim Populations, Current Rhetoric Does Exactly That

Scapegoating Muslims Is Playing Into the Hands of ISIS

Paris attacks: Hating Muslims plays right into Isis's hands

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

That wasn't what you asked for originally but fair enough.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Problem with that way of thinking is that it is almost impossible to distinguish between a peaceful Muslim and a Jihadist so until ISIS and any other extreme Islamic group is removed from the world Muslims will always be viewed as potential terrorists which is quite understandable really.

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Did you think the same about Irish people twenty to fifty years ago?

And how can you tell a Muslim from a Hindu from a Catholic from the Indian sub-continent? (there are a lot of Indian Catholics around Goa).

How can you tell an Arab Muslim from a Lebanese Christian?

Most Muslims I know, and I know quite a few, don't go around telling everyone they are Muslim, just like I don't go around telling everyone I am Christian.

How do we know who is a Muslim, and by your definition a potential terrorist, and who isn't?

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Hugh that post is complete crap and you know it .I have absolutely no idea why you have brought Irish ,lebanese ,indians or Hindus into a thread about Muslims but i suppose you have your reasons :rolleyes:

I was talking about distinguishing one type of Muslim from another .You cannot tell a jihadist going into a mosque on a friday afternoon from a peaceful Muslim going into a mosque on a friday afternoon any more than a Christian can be distinguished from a Muslim (in some cases) ,that is why ,at this time Islam is such a threat to Western society.Untill we come up with a way to distinguish between peaceful Muslims and Jihadists then society needs to view all Muslims with equal suspicion.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Well ISIS and the rest are winning.They have got some of us ready to turn on perfectly innocent people because of fear. Our basic freedoms will be eroded in the desire to try and protect ourselves..we will become less free as layer after layer of security is added.

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If people are going to belong to a religion as disjointed and violent as Islam then they must be prepared to be watched closely and with suspicion .Unfortunately it isn't right and certainly isn't fair but that's the way it's got to be to protect the lives of innocent people.

Who are 'the rest'?
can't think of any other religious nut jobs blowing stuff up on a regular basis

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Don't be sorry for your opinion, just because it doesn't measure up to someone else's.

Your opinion isn't dissimilar from mine and you're not saying anything that's wrong or untrue or illegal, so feck em.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Before we can distinguish between "peaceful Muslims and Jihadists" in this country, how do you know who is a Muslim from who is a Hindu from who is a Sikh from who is a Christian?

How can you tell just by looking at someone if they are a Muslim, so we can view them with suspicion?

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

How about asking them ? i'm pretty sure that all the security services know who's Muslim and who isn't

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

What next - should they be made to wear something that identifies them as Muslims?

Should we also ask the 1.3 million Sikhs and Hindus in the UK, just to be sure they are not Muslim?

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

You hit the nail on the head Maggy.

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Yep your right Hugh lets all join together and just get along so what if now and then during one of the joyous gatherings someone blows themself up and a lot of other people or gets in a truck and mows down scores of innocent people. Because we can't identify the nutters lets not think about it lets not get the mosques involved who definately do know both the one's radicalising and those susceptible to that radicalisation. Asking does no harm, telling prevents harm but we're so worried about offending a person or a group that we don't as a rule and when someone or some agency does they are instantly labelled as ignorant or racist it's got to the point of being stupid.

I'm an atheist I'll happily tell anyone that asks and if in the future atheists run around doing what some muslims are doing and many more plan to do to innocent civilians I'll expect to both be asked and if need be watched as i might be a threat. Most mainstream religions have had bad press or difficult situations to handle over the last few decades but none of them other then islam feels the need to kill journalists or attack society as a result.

It isn't just about the one's that commit the act it's about the community that stood by and allowed extremism in and to spread and in practical terms does very little.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

Ask them Hugh that's all i said so don't twist the words .There is nothing wrong in asking Muslims in a community about suspected radicals within that community .All Muslims have to realise that the actions of people using their religion to commit atrocities have consequences and they will have to live with the fact that leaving them alone has not worked and we cannot allow a sub culture that breeds terrorists to thrive in this country so regardless of who it offends we must start treating all Muslims with suspicion ,take a closer look at the closed communities ,close a few Islamic schools and see what exactly is going on behind the doors of some of these mosques .Burying your head in the sand won't help anyone least of all the peaceful Muslims.

The fact remains that regardless of what the true intent of Islam is or was it has now been hijacked by evil men and peaceful or not Muslims the world over will and should be treated with suspicion

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

That's exactly what we have been doing. The vast majority of plots foiled and there have been a lot have been stopped thanks to information from the Muslim community. All this bs about other religions is just the worst kind of wet political correctness that allowed hamsa and choudrhy to spout their vile hate filled messages for years unmolested.

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No the bulk of intelligence is not coming from the community it's said a lot but it is not true the two biggest sources of intelligence in the islamic extremist arena are electronic surveillance and undercover operatives from a number of agency's I'm not even sure muslim community intelligence would make number three. For decades we have been tolerant we let them establish their own neighbourhoods, their own schools and allow their religion and culture to override the society norm in the UK.

Those communities are now growing and harbouring threats to the state and it's people and it is no longer practical to leave alone and hope they will change we have done that and very little has changed except getting to the point of suggesting we need to do more gets some people up in arms. There are very few countries on this planet that take and welcome people from diverse backgrounds finding them a home and the UK is one and ling may it be that way and i dont want that lost because a group of people will not change and adapt to the country they choose to be in instead expecting that country to change and accomadate them.

I don't want all muslims to be tarred with the same brush they are not all terrorists and it's a minority that plans and executes terror but they come from one community and that community has not done a lot to help solve the problem and very far from all they could do. The joke is those saying it's racist to put islam under scrutiny or even more pathetically trying to draw comparisons with nazism will be the one's responsible for a general and horrific backlash from the public sooner or later after a terror attack.

Re: Muslim Writers: Islam To Blame For Global Terror
 

If you think that I'm wondering around viewing people who 'look muslim' with suspicion and 'tarring everyone with the same brush' or whatever, then you are wrong. :)