Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

http://news.sky.com/story/1683748/ju...-full-walk-out

I know that some members wont like it. But l am in total agreement with what the Junior Doctors are going to do.

IF Jeremy Hunt had any braincells, he would get round the table for talks, and sort this problem out.

He is trying to prove that he is bigger than the BMA, and the NHS. Under Employment law, you CANNOT force and employee to accept a new contract, without talks.

And l have read that, Hunt will be breaking the law if he tries to enforce it.

And l think that 90% of the UK will support the NHS staff.

re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Arthur, they've been 'round the table' since 2012...

http://m.bma.org.uk/working-for-chan...ground-to-2016

re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

dont agree with it myself.

They putting patients at risk by striking, and refusing to modernise their work practices. Health care isnt a monday to friday thing.

Also no consideration for the fact the NHS budget is at breaking point yet they want more money.

re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

NHS always seems to be at breaking point even when billions and billions have been added to it.

Where do these extra billions go?

re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

well having seen the chancellors devious manipulation of figures i would imagine most of it is phantom money backed up by the most devious explanation ever[ "in real terms"] which instantly identifies it as rubbish .

re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Probably crazy admin costs ,i got a letter the other day for an appointment that i had already made and it was translated into just about every language i could think of so a simple confirmation letter turned into a 6 page book.

re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

A lot of them are going toward the interest on various PFI loans and the costs involved in PFI contracts the Tony Blair's and Gordon Brown's government used to finance new hospital buildings.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Jeremy Hunt turns down last-gasp chance to avert most dangerous walkout in NHS history

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6998481.html

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

It would be nice if both sides could get together and sort this out instead of this deep intransigence on both sides currently.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

How is that turning down anything? It was HIS idea in the first place.:rolleyes:

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The only ones being intransigent are the doctors ,they have a good offer actually better than they originally wanted ,they need to stop whining and get on with their jobs

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The millions that is pumped into the NHS, is mostly wasted on Pen pushers on higher managers, on about 200 grand a year.

Jeremy Hunt has just employed a PR to get to the heart of the Junior Drs strike at 500 quid per DAY.

When you think the Junior Doctors was decent money, they are turned down yet management are on crazy money. And people ask, where does all the millions go. It doesn't go into the pockets, of the guys on the ground. Its also wasted on Private companies and Agency Nursing

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Arthur, I know you and facts aren't comfortable neighbours, but I thought I might introduce you to some, just in case you wanted to have an informed conversation... ;)

http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/k...ics-on-the-nhs

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Ok Hugh.,

So where does all the millions go, that is pumped into the NHS each year.

You cannot ask a Doctor, especially Junior Doctors to work extreme unsocial hours for a pittance of a wage,

All they are asking is a decent wage, what is wrong in that. Our lives are in THERE HANDS.

Its like me, l work with the vulnerable each day, and my wage has been pegged to 1%.

You cannot expect people to work for nothing

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Arthur, do you actually read anything that others post, or are you so busy raging against the dying of the light that you can't be bothered looking for a light switch?

In the quote I posted above what you have just posted, it says there are over 32000 more doctors than 10 years ago, over 18000 more nurses, and nearly 6000 more GPs and 1688 practice nurses, with an additional 12342 allied health professionals. Medical school intake has risen from 3749 per year in 1997 to 6262 per year in 2012/13.

If you clicked on the link I provided, you would have seen we now have 150,273 doctors, 377191 qualified nursing staff, and 155,960 qualified scientific, therapeutic and technical staff.

You would have seen that there were nearly 16 million hospital admission in 2014/15, nearly a third more than 10 years earlier; you would have seen that there were 22.364 million attendances at A&E in 2014/15, a quarter more than 10 years before; you would have seen there were 85.632 million outpatient attendances, and that there has been a 18.5% increase in emergency incidents in the last five years, and that there has been an increase in the people with diabetes to 3.2 million.

Arthur, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you...

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

if you work in a nice comfortable office 9-5 5days a week and earn 2-3 times the average wage get nice long lunch breaks lots of tea breaks with the odd fancy cake in the afternoon of course you can expect others to work 90 hrs a week for nothing after all your doing your bit why can't they .

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I think you may have been watching too many 1950's British black & white films....;)

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

ok mr Grimsdale

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Hugh, l don't go by figures. I go for the fact, that Drs and Nurses should get more money.

When l was in hospital with chest pains nearly two years ago. I was treated well by Drs and Nurses, and they were all brilliant. And my motto is, If they look after me and my family to the best of there ability.

I will look after them.

Its like all to the cuts to our vital services, the NHS, Fire Service, police and LAS are treated shabbily by a Government, that think instead of spending money on OUR vital services. They send BILLIONS, yes, BILLIONS overseas in AID. and they are PROUD of this.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

And what has extra money got to do with claimed reasons for the strike? Eg On banners shown on the news, "increase stress", "not safe", "less safe", "tired doctors make mistakes". Yet there are to be fewer hours and mechanisms(ie guardians) in place to enforce better working hours. :confused:

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

:clap::clap::clap:

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Yeah but

:D

The way I understand it the safeguards are being watered down and the mechanisms all but removed

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

It appears to be a good offer but nearly all of them will lose money under the new contract; what we need to see is a comparison of before and after for a doctor but the Govt won't do that, I wonder why?

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

There's one side refusing to talk any longer, one side refusing compromise solution proposed by cross party MPs, one side spoiling for a fight, one side who have a bigger plan to run down the NHS so they can implement their privatisation masterplan. It's not the Doctor's that are being 'intransigent'.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Has anybody, especially the junior doctors actually read the new contract?The workloads are being reduced, work patterns eased and a new mechanism put in place. Hardly dismantling anything, is it?

---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------

It is effectively already being piloted as it is being implemented in stages.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The hospital now fines itself money for breaking the rules, does the hospital give itself a stiff talking to as well, the safe guards are being watered down according to them and I know who I believe

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

They've been locked head-to-head for years over this already. Neither side willing to budge it seems.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The hospital will be fining itself and redistributing the money within the hosputal in other words, sounds like a great saftey mechanism

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

On balance I reckon they've got a pretty good deal and the strike tomorrow is a step too far which will lose them quite a bit of public support.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I have read that Elvis is still alive and living with Aliens, doesnt actually make it true ... ;)


Based on what, just some random number generator ?
Strikes rarely achieve much these days. I think if they go on strike they will lose some support, if someone dies because of it, they will lose a lot more.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

No one will die because of it, in fact if you're planning on getting very ill I'd suggest Tuesday and Wednesday would be very good days to do it on, not that it'll stop the press though

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Really?

In Manchester, they have a consultant psychiatrist, Dr. Richard Hopkins, who have not undertaken hands on physical diagnostic medicine in over a decade, covering in A&E - sounds safe...

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

What'd be the point in removing emergency cover if they didn't think it was upping the ante by increasing the risk?

I find it a bit rich that at a time when they're making a whole lot of noise about 'caring for patients' and 'saving the NHS' they're at the same time threatening to leave it if they don't get their way. Now who will that hurt most of all? The patients and the NHS I'd say.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

It's like when you kidnap somebody and cut their finger off.
how are you supposed to be taken seriously if you just threaten to cut their finger off?

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Junior doctors should be completely ashamed by today’s strike

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

But what alternative do they have if the government has walked away from negotiating and won't even consider cross party compromise suggestions ? What action do you suggest they take instead ? It's hardly the most militant of actions 8 to 5 pm for 2 days, with emergencies being covered by consultants.

Seems the Govt. wants a 'political win' and to hell with the consequences for the future of the NHS. Not that they and their private healthcare chums are really bothered about the NHS anyway; it almost as if it's is being set up to fail to clear they way for privatisation.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

So what exactly are they striking over? Not working hours related things, because that's all been agreed.

The cross-party suggestion of phased implementation is just what was happening ANYWAY.
1.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

"wipe that smirk off his face"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7000501.html

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Get back to work and quit whining about what is a good offer and gives them what they want that's what alternative they have .How many of the doctors on the picket line realise that they are simply pawns for the BMA who are quite disgracefully using a straightforward contract negotiation for their own political ends

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I just wish they'd be honest and call it for what it really is. A dispute over money. Sod all to do with patient care.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I credit them all with more smarts than to be used as political pawns in the machinations of an evil union

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Every time one of them speaks on the news there is a different reason why they are striking ,this morning on the BBC news when it was pointed out that they would be working less hours one of the doctors said the new contract would lead to "gender inequality" ,as far as i'm concerned they are just playing politics

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Maybe because different Drs are being interviewed? The fact they are disenchanted and have taken such unprecedented drastic action is something we should all be worried about, whatever the outcome. We're all dependent on them. There's one person playing politics, a politician surprisingly, who has manufactured this dispute for his own ends.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

So you're happy with the doctors lying? Disenchanted with what? Long hours, well that's proved to be nonsense. It's allegedly not about getting more pay, so what is it all about? That is, not things based on LIES or POLITICALLY BASED CONJECTURES.:confused:

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

working for the NHS myself this is causing no end of problems..while being in the "gang" so to speak working in the same environment they do you can give some sympathy but now it has got too dangerous and patients lives are being compromised

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Maybe it just proves they have multiple reasons for striking and how was the hours issue proved nonsense

---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 ----------

I'd have thought most doctors were conservative supporters :shrug:

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

You responded to that quote.
The new contract specifically reduces the hours. Have you read it? Eg max hours in a 7 day period reduced from 91 to 72.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Mostly care for the elderly, especially in the last year or two of their lives.

Other than that over the past 7 years there haven't been extra billions and billions, health care expenditure is lower per head than it was in 2009.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2016/04/5.png

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The trouble is, when people see the NHS, they think it should be employing Doctors and Nurses and no one else..

They don't realise the following:

• Patients need feeding (which requires Catering staff)
• Wards, Rooms, Theatres, Corridors and everywhere else in the Hospital needs cleaning (which requires cleaning staff, some of whom are specialised)
• Hospitals have a lot of equipment that needs power, which requires a reliable mains supply with tested backup (requiring Electricians to be on staff)
• Hospitals have a lot of other equipment and facilities to maintain (thus requiring a whole variety of different tradespeople, such as builders, plumbers, carpenters).

These people all need management..

I could go on, but I think I've made my point adequately. When you or I walk into a Hospital, we see (and deal with) the Doctors, Nurses and other Medical/Surgical staff. What we don't see is that the Hospital employs sometimes hundreds of other staff, most of whom are needed by the Hospital to provide treatment every bit as much a the medial and surgical staff. I do know that a lot of the functions I've outlined are performed by outside contractors, but they aren't all, and the NHS still indirectly pays for the staff, even if the staff are actually paid by a contractor.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Exactly. They aren't making much/any sense when they give reasons for the strike......and the interviewers usually allow them to get away with it :confused:

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

That's a good point. The media and our politicians tend to label 'managers' rather like they label 'bankers'. I've no doubt there is a fair amount of 'excess' at the highest levels of management but that's not restricted to the NHS.

As for the doctors, well they're behaving a bit like Bob Crowe's union right now.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Get them in a room lock the door and they can only come out once a resolution has been reached

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The new contract is bs the mechanisms for controlling over working doctors have been watered down. They haven't got enough staff to cover five days yet there now going to cover seven with the same numbers

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Please show how the mechanisms have been watered down .The doctors keep saying that as well and yet not one of them have adequately explained how they have been watered down .The new contract is quite clear on the hours that are allowed to be worked

Here is a link detailing and comparing the original contract to novembers contract and the new contract ,you will see quite clearly that it is a vast improvement on working hours

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/...2022%20Feb.pdf

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

If the doctors are over worked the hosputal now fines itself and redistributes the money within the hospital, I believe the hospital is also required to give itself a very stiff talking to as well.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Actually that's completely wrong .

Any financial penalty will be managed by the 'Guardian' who is independant of the management

Information on the guardian role

http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-wor...-guardian-role

There is also this

This is the letter the above extract is based on

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

If it's within the trust it'll be about as independent as the panels stuffed full of failed politicians and lords whose decisions cause uproar all the time and regardless it's still a case of hospitals fining themselves and keeping the cash themselves

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Strange that working hours are being used as a reason, when the current proposals were agreed at ACAS meetings in January, with the only outstanding issues being week-end pay rates.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ark_Porter.pdf

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

pointless debating with you if you don't accept the proof in front of you ,it's in black and white in front of you so if you don't accept it i can't be arsed with you

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Surprising and weird to see that somebody else has at least tried to find out the truth on the matters and checked the actual contract.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I don't accept it and more importantly neither do the doctors, you know the ones this actually effects, they've seen the 'proof' and aren't buying it and neither is the vast majority of the public that supports them

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:27 ----------

Thanks for confirming what I said re independence of panel

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Well the public are "buying it" based on lies.

:confused: It's only people at the hospital itself, includes junior doctors themselves and a consensus has to be reached on any appointment. Sounds independent and certainly NOT "stuffed full of failed politicians and lords".

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Actually they do accept it (the BMA agreed and accepted that part a while back),i simply showed you the Guardian arrangement to show that your assertion that "If the doctors are over worked the hosputal now fines itself and redistributes the money within the hospital"is complete made up bollocks.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Yeah I never actually said the guardian selection panel was stuffed full of failed politicians and lords, you might want to bare that in mind next time you're demanding people read stuff

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

This what is you said.
Part of my reply was.

Quote:

independent of the management structure within the trust

Surely the makeup of the selection panel, which includes junior doctors, determines who gets selected. The "guardian" will be a person of NHS Consultant grade or equivalent seniority.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Really the bma accepted and agreed to that did they, perhaps you should let them know as according to them it's something still up for negotiation

http://m.bma.org.uk/working-for-chan...is-for-juniors

Here it is again

https://fullfact.org/health/junior-d...ction-dispute/

---------- Post added at 01:07 ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 ----------

I know full well what I said, I said it wouldn't be independent just like the panels stuffed full of failed politicians

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

And the date of that document? April?, nope, March?, nope, February?, nope again. Things have changed since then.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Yes they did ,this letter dated 12th feb 2016 superseded the links you provided with updated negotiations between NHS Employers and the BMA with AGREED terms.

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/...M%20120216.pdf

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Sorry guys and girls on this forum. But l look at it this way.
Yesterday, and the day before l tooted my support to the Junior Drs on the picket line at west middx hospital, my local hospital.

I belong to the PCS Union, and WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT a Union strike, and never in my life cross a picket line.

But, l look at the bigger here.

Jeremy Hunt is trying to force a NEW contract onto the Drs, You canniot do that under employment law.

The BMA have rightly come out and supported there members.

What Hunt, and that Hypocrite Cameron has come and out said ' we have given them a good deal'
That deal is only good for the Government, to think they can push employees about - this is why companies have Unions. To support there workforce.

IF, Cameron and Hunt got there way, the NHS would be privatised tomorrow.

If my employer wants to change my contract, my company would discuss and talk about it.

Its like IF, the Juniors were on duty, after doing a 12 hour shift. And no Dr turned up to replace him, he would have to stay on till a replacement was found.

If they strike again, it will probably go on for three days. But consultants or registrars would take there place.

And some of them support there colleagues.

Its about time Hunt sat down with the BMA and sorted this out, instead of pussyfooting around.

Or like as he was smiling in the commons the other day, when Corbyn was lashing at him. Awhile the rest was either asleep or playing about on the mobile phones or jeering each other, like spoilt kids - and we pay there wages

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

There was already an increase in national insurance contributions of around 1.4% this month

you have to ask though how much money do we need to pay out, there is an ever increasing population not to mention open borders to let more in that will need more care.

better ways to screen for an illness which might detect something early but not necessarily cure whatever it is but add additional costs to the NHS. you have to ask what can they do with the budget employ more staff? use existing staff but have the money to put into patient care costs. help fund research increase wages and work less hours for it.

There is a lot to consider and while I do support the DR's so far I think they are fighting a lost cause.

I got a 1% pay rise rise this month taking my wage from £17,800 to £17,980 but had a national insurance increase of 1.4% if anything I'm worse off.

In reality there are other jobs that work long hours the DR's are no different

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The "imposition" of the contract is only fairly recent and very importantly was AFTER the strike vote, and therefore can't be a reason. The BMA have agreed with most of it, so does that really justify a strike? It's possible that a lot of it can effectively be imposed by getting the employers to change the rosters. As the current contract is "looser" on working hours there is plenty of scope to move thing around and all without the 13.5% increase.:D Concessions have been made by Jeremy Hunt, eg extra Saturday pay where they have already worked one Saturday that month, increase in basic pay up from 11% to 13.5%. A sticking point seems to be that the BMA insist on doctors get pay rises and advancements based on time served, including long-term sick leave and maternity leave. This is not shelf stackers we're talking about, career advancement should be based on ability shown and actual amount of experience dealing with actual patients. How would it be fair or equitable(ie equal) for a person who has spent 2 out of the last 6 years at home, being "ahead" of somebody who has worked solid for 5 or 6 years? You see on medical dramas that junior doctors need to have real world experience of various medical procedures in various circumstances. Medical school is unable to fully prepare them in that way. They don't come out fully fledged and ready to go.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

The Drs took legal advice before deciding on this all out strike. And l don't think for one minute, if there was an emergency, that needed drs. They would have broken the picket line.
Similar to the fire service, when they went on strike.

I look at it in many ways. In the news recently, they pay for extras, such as parking. They pay a fee each week, (yes, l know that the public pay for parking at Hospitals) but to me Drs and Nurses shouldn't have to pay.
If they live on Hospital Grounds, they must pay a small rent.
They have to buy there own medical books.

And don't forget, when they come from training school, after 5 or 6 years, they are probably heavy in debt.

There are many things, that we don't know.

And yes, l know that we also have long hour jobs.

But some member said about an 1% pay rise. I got a 1% pay rise - then my rent went up, bang goes my pay rise

I support Drs all the way

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Are parking fees part of the dispute? Is it different from the current contract? If so, does that justify a strike.:shocked:
New contract
Current

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Nomad, I am talking in context about Pasrking Fees here for NHS staff.

The Junior Drs took full legal advice on the strike action. This is why there was a full walk out.

It appears some members don't believe that the action behind the strike, is worthwile and wrong.

I have seen through my work what these Drs have to go through in hospitals, its no joke I would not like to be a Drs, they work hard for many years to be a Dr, and get treated like dirt by the Government.

The Government cannot treat Public Sector workers, as if they don't exist. They get 1% pay rise. While, the Government keep giving themselves pay rise.

Irs not right

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Thanks for the update

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Routine parking is a matter for the individual hospitals. There is nothing new in the contract about routine parking, so why wasn't it an issue prior to 2010?

Treated like dirt? 13.5% increase, reduced hours, limits on long or weekend or night shifts improved. Nasty stuff indeed.:rolleyes:

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Arthur, do you have a link showing the legal advice Doctors obtained about the walk-out, please?

All I could find was this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/...r-doctors.html

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Don't be holding your breath...

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Surprise, surprise, it looks like the "Junior Doctor" wheeled out to defend the government's position to the media is a fake!

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/20...ctor-isnt.html

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

He still technically a junior doctor. Just as much as one on maternity leave. In fact under the current contract taking time out would still count as training.:confused: That wouldn't happen under the new contract and is one of the things they are bleating about. They are happy with the situation where a person who has been off work/training for 3 out of the last 6 years is ahead of somebody continuously working for 5 years. Doesn't sound fair or equal.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

To Quote from the link: His blog, once again, provides an answer: “I’m an FY1 doctor, with a huge interest in politics and healthcare policy”. What is “FY1”? Ah well. “FY” stands for Foundation Year: Adam Dalby is in his first year after graduating, but has not yet acquired sufficient experience to be let loose on his own. He’s the kind of doctor you might find “sitting in” with registrars or consultants when you visit the local hospital’s outpatients’ department.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

What's your point?

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34798215

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Hugh. When the news was on ITV London, l believe the first day of the strike. It was said by the reporter, that Legal Advice had been sought, before striking on full walk out.

There is NO Link to that.

I think that deep down that the Drs, would not put patients at risk. If they knew it was wrong. Remember, they have made an oath.

The present problem is caused by Jeremy Hunt trying to enforce a new contract on them.

Does anyone know or have seen what is in the contract to cause the problem.

But, what l still cannot understand is why Hunt wont sit down and sort this out

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

And if you go onto the official website to use the pay calculator for the new contract for JUNIOR DOCTORS, FY1 is an option and therefore they are affected by the new contract.

From actual new contract

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Source please.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I bow to your greater knowledge, Thanks for researching that, unfortunately I have a life and have been out doing charity work this evening

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I found it very easily, so why don't you? If you're going to post a claim of X, is it unreasonable to try and check it out first? I asked myself "are FY1/F1, junior doctors" and sought the truth rather than relying on others.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/...ing%202016.pdf

---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 ----------

It has been stated a number of times that they have been discussing this since 2012...

Here is the contract

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/...ing%202016.pdf

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 ----------

I googled 'new junior doctors contract', and it was in the first (non-advert) link - took me around 20 seconds in total...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ne...obile&ie=UTF-8

Then 4 click-thru's

http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-wor...ctors-contract

http://www.nhsemployers.org/your-wor...junior-doctors

http://www.nhsemployers.org/case-stu...ons-of-service

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/...ing%202016.pdf

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Gov should say unless they accept within a week. the 30% premium will be withdrawn and then they get what other public workers get.

Shameful greed from these doctors.

---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:48 ----------

of course a company can, a previous company I worked for simply said take the new contract or lose your job.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Interesting read, makes me wonder if there was an ulterior motive all along

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ctors-contract

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Try the MANY other reports from around the world that confirm the weekend effect.
Link to British Medical Journal article from Nov 1015
Don't see why it should make any difference anyway

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

If the many reports from around the world have used the same formula as the one jeremy hunt keeps banging on about to support his case then I'd rather not try them and yes it does make a difference if the very reason for implementing it is flawed, he's either incompetent or up to something, time will tell which.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

As I said, regardless why should it make a difference to the strike? The reports, including the ones used by Jeremy Hunt are prepared by the MEDICAL PROFESSION.

I also pointed out that the day of giving birth is not usually chosen. There may be deliveries that are expected to be difficult, but still the day of the week is unknown beforehand. It happens, when it happens.
Several of the studies have focused on outcomes for selected serious conditions. As such, hospital admission is a certainty in all cases. The "weekend effect" was found in those studies.


I could probably come up with a 100 other studies all showing the SAME thing.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Wonder why jeremy didn't come up with any of those 100 then instead of always focusing on the one with the flawed data

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Not flawed, produced by OTHERS IE the MEDICAL PROFESSION, and shouldn't matter whatever.
IE they die at home instead.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

Oh right that's the reason

And it does matter because this whole sorry mess could've been avoided if they're right.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

I think we are focusing too much on one thing here .Putting the "weekend effect" aside ,what's wrong with striving for a 7 day NHS anyway ? just about everything else in our lives is 7 days so why not our health care ?

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out
 

l am not against a 7 day NHS but do we have enough staff? for it as the NHS are seriously overstretched now with not enough staff and even then they have to be brought in from abroad.