UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Yes, here's the grand plan for ensuring the lights don't go out.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35583740

It's great to see the French putting the UK's needs so highly after all these years. :rolleyes:

Seriously, nuclear should never have been abandoned to foreign ownership and if there'd been any sort of political will to ensure our energy security, we wouldn't be in this position now. IMHO low oil prices are just adding to the chaos and high level dithering and make our energy security situation even more perilous.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

It's a better plan that the environmentalists would have: Cover the country in windturbines and solar farms. Shut everything else down and everybody gets a power cut on those still, dull winter days or when there's a howling gale and rain.

I just hope the stay of execution isn't used as an excuse for contined procrustination. We need reliable base load generation.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I'd rather we used as many different energy sources as we can.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Too true and what a sad indictment of UK power generating policy that is.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

A sensible mix is indeed needed, but it has to be balanced right.

There's no point closing the coal power stations until we have sufficient generating capacity to replace them. Nuclear is the best replacement for coal as it provides the same steady baseload power that a coal power station does, and is reliable. Once we have the nukes online we can scale the coal stations back, as they are pretty dirty things.

Wind can play a part, however it should only be a minority player in the UK energy mix. The UK isn't that large geographically, so its very easy for us to have a high pressure system sit over us (Especially in winter) meaning little or no wind output during times of high demand. Solar can also play a minor part, but as it can't generate at night it can't be relied upon.

Gas is flexible, and is very good at covering the fluctuations from Wind and solar generation because it can be easily wound up and down to match demand. The problem is that gas prices will not stay low, therefore we need to carefully consider before we build too many gas power stations.

In the UK, hydro is not really a big provider of power outside of the Scottish highlands. We don't have the massive mountain ranges needed for really high power hydro installs, and environ-mentalists would go spare if you suggested drowning a valley. Pumped Storage might be worth looking at again if we end up with lots of surplus power, but again its very much dependant on geography.

The biggest waste of time and money at the moment (aside from wind) has to be tidal power. The theory is brilliant, tides are predictable and can therefore provide predictable power. The problem is the amount of power you can get from even the largest tidal power installations is shockingly small.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

We still need more nuclear plants purely because of the amount of energy they provide.

The problem is the length of time they take to build due to the safety measures that need incorporating which I wouldn't want to change.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I often listen to French radio and wasn't surprised to hear that EDF is in panic mode over there. Over 50 nuclear stations under it's control, 2 more planned (plus 2 in the UK), wholesale electricity costs have dropped by almost half, and thousands of it's workforce being laid off (but not without a fight of course). They are demanding an increase in the price or its electricity in order to "stay profitable", but the politicians have dug their heels in. They say they need extra money to "safely" decomission several sites (including those in the UK) but are being ignored.

So does that mean they will decomission, but not "safely"? Or is all just a gallic threat?

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

... and therein lies much of the basis upon which HMG sold it off doesn't it? Aside from the cash raised, transfer the risk and blame to others... The French didn't go down that route and now their politicians are going to cop the flak when then inevitable happens.

Ultimately of course, the UK taxpayer will pick up the bill if all else fails.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

.... like the banks, they're private right up until they run into a problem, then they're public again.

Also in the news today, German energy supplier, RWE, reported a loss and their shares were down alomst 10%. They own a lot of UK power stations and have millions of customers here.

---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

The only way to resolve the energy problem in this country, is for all of us to produce some of our own electricity ourselves. Whether that be ugly solar panels, wind turbines or some other solution. We would still need at least half a dozen nuclear stations to fill in the gaps.

Fusion power will happen in the future within the next 50 years, but that's probably beyond the lifetimes of many of us here. So we need something to plug the gap and relying on Czar Putin is not the way to go.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I hope so, I have working ITER for almost six years between other projects. that project has political problems you can't even dream up.

If you are interested in Fusion read here

www.iter.org

On a different note apparently National Grid don't like to have large scale mirco generation. ie solar on your houses, they cant control it and it upsets the balance on the grid. I'm sure this problem can be solved though.

:D

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

If we ever really get the benefit of plummeting energy prices passed on to us mere consumers, I wonder what that'll do to the domestic solar energy market for example? I'd hate to think that what I believe is a blip, whether politically driven or not, would turn out to be yet another reason for protracted dithering about the problems staring us in the face.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I suspect OPEC is getting ready to destabilise the market further quite soon. War of some sort is on the cards more than ever, not just minor strategic strikes.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I've long been of the opinion that what's been happening in recent years represents almost the perfect storm brewing and what we have is a situation where an error of judgement or irrational act by Putin, Erdogan, Netanyahu Obama or whoever could set off a chain of events that ends in major conflict.

The relative (and mortgaged) 'prosperity' enjoyed amongst the major nations within and without Europe has been masking a whole lot of simmering tensions and now things are getting a lot tougher in all sorts of ways I wouldn't be surprised if things come to a very nasty head in the not too distant future.

Anyway, hopefully I'm wrong and it'll all peter out but that's the main reason I've put off buying my solar panels... :D

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Problem solved?... or maybe not... :erm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36394601

Anyway it's good to know that it's proven, reliable, technology already successfully up and running on time/in budget elsewhere and that the main players are fully behind it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_(nuclear_reactor)

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I suppose the good thing is, that French Unions are much more powerful that British Unions.

French Unions wont be pushed about, Like those in this country. We have stupid prats like Boris, and Cameron running as soon as there is any Union trouble. Then they try to bring out a law prevent Unions going on strike.

The other is, we should return to coal.
This would bring several things. Employment to deprived areas of the UK. Cheap coal for the elderly, instead of them being ripped off by energy companies.

Don't forget this country STILL IMPORTS COAL. And then we would have no worries of Power Station producing Electricity

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Stop living in the past.Coal is bad for the ecology and climate and it's non renewable.:rolleyes:

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Maggy, I am not living in the past. I believe there is an energy source from Coal. Why should this country pay OUR TAX money, to import coal. When we have our OWN coal source, which would create thousands of Jobs.
And would also create jobs.

If you look at Wales, and in the North where Coal was mined. You would have people queuing up for work. And just think of the Employment figures - instead of them being fixed by Cameron and Co. They would be true figures

I think by July Cameron will have quit anyway

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Arthur, we would pay more of our 'tax money' for UK coal - it is more expensive than imported coal.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I am related to a lot of Welsh people.They don't really want to go down the coal mines anymore..

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

I know a lot of kids who don't want to go up any more chimneys too.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Unions being powerful isn't necessarily a good thing.. Depends on the Union. While my own Union (Unison) intervened at work when I was downgraded, and got that reversed, there are Unions that are too powerful. Look at TFL. Tube drivers are paid >£50,000 a year for a job that isn't (on the face of it) any harder than shop workers, who are paid a lot less. They also have a unions that are willing to do their best to bring London to a halt when TFL dare to do something that will bring the service on the London Underground up to the level of other tube systems (including, ironically, the french metro).

Can you explain why the French Unions should have ANY SAY in what goes on in THIS COUNTRY?

Why? Does the evironment meant nothing to you? I'd be a fool to suggest Nuclear doesn't have serious problems, (waste, potential for meltdown), but it's actually relatively clean evironmentally, when you factor it the amount of power generated.
Cheap? So who is going to pay the tens of billions of pounds required to upgrade the machinery at our coal pits so they can compete safely with the cheap coal provided by other countries. Bear in mind that we have health and safety regulations in place that are considerably more strict than those in place in other countries, and following those recommendations costs money.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

:tu:

I see we're back on a very familiar track... :spin: ;)

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Stuart.

I am in the Union PCS, and l can assure you that they have my job on several occasioms.

What l am saying is that Unions pay an important part in workers lives. Just look at the BMA.

No the French Unions don't have a say in the UK. But the Government are trying to kill the Unions in this country, this is whay they are trying to bring out a law, to say that the Union must have a certain amount of vote, before striking.

The Conservatives brought the NUM down, there were major problems at Wapping.

As for the Unions on TFL. My brother works for TFL. and makes sure that passenegers travel in safety, each night checking tracks in case of cracks. And there are quite a few each night that have to be replaced.

And each day the Union of the RMT, are trying to protect the passenger. This is why they are so against the 24 hour tube. - When are safety checks to be made.

I know its a bit off the subject, but l had to make that statement. Always the TFL come out along with Boris at the time. They state it is the passenger who suffers.

If it wasn't through the Unions, there would be a train in every station, like Boris said two years ago.

Safety is paramount. And my brother works for the whole shift underground, and taking in all that crap in the tunnels - that's why he gets a decent wage.

And then there are the dead bodies, they have to collect when they get hit by a train

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

We need coal, what happened to proposals for coal with carbon capture?

And of course, there is great promise for fracking, it would be logical to combine a fracking site with a power station

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

People DONT WANT FRACKING. Just read the local news.

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

Unfortunately, that's the nub of the problem.

Essentially, the "Not In My Backyard" attitude.

Everyone thinks that Wind farms, Solar Farms and Nuclear would be good for power.

Nuclear would. Wind and Solar can be, but are limited by the weather and (to a large extent) the efficiency of the technology in use. Essentially, with no wind, a wind farm is a very large and expensive collection of ornaments. Without enough sun, a Solar farm if a very large and expensive collection of mirrors. I believe various companies are working on large scale power storage systems (essentially batteries large enough to power a small town), but these may not be any more environment friendly than coal (which is bad), as the chemicals and materials used will need to be replaced and are probably toxic.

The problem with Wind and Solar is that the farms are very large. A wind farm powerful enough to power even a small town would require several square miles of land, or sea. Space in the sea isn't a problem, if the town is relatively near the sea. Not too much good for (say) London, Birmingham or Manchester though.

As such, very few people want a wind or Solar farm near them.

Nuclear is another option, and probably the most energy efficient. It has the problem of waste disposal and also what to do if there is an accident. Any significant leakage is likely to kill a lot of people and animals, and also leave the area uninhabitable for decades.

Fracking is relatively efficient, doesn't require large areas of land or sea, but while in the event of an accident, isn't likely to leave large areas uninhabitable for decades, does have a question mark over it's safety.

Even Hydroelectric systems, while generally safe, are rumoured to have a massive negative impact on sea life.

So, bearing in mind we are going to need an increasing amount of electrical power, and coal/oil are not a good long term option (quite apart from the environment impact of burning them, we have limited supplies left on the planet), which power source would you chose?

Re: UK power generating capacity - problem solved
 

They were bound to rumble your 'find the hamster' game sooner or later Gary :p: