Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Now Trump calls for a 'total and complete' shutdown of Muslim immigration into the U.S. after San Bernardino massacre - and is shunned by other Republicans


:shrug::shrug::shrug: is he bonkers or what?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-States.html

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

He keeps trying to get headlines by being more offensive and ridiculous as possible. It's worth remembering every other Republican candidate has condemned him for this and not a single vote has yet been cast in this race.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

If he carries on like this he'll soon be more of a joke than Corbyn, albeit on the opposite pole of the political spectrum. :D

Is it just a transient media obsession with him (a la Farage) or are his republican competitors really so insignificant?

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

It's just his is the most news friendly of the lot whilst retraining electoral credibility. Most of the others come out with predictable and safe comments typical of those seeking election Trump comes out with sensational statements that beg to be made front-page news. Like Farage he also taps into populist opinion but unlikely Farage he doesn't care about saying something that just stays within the line and instead stampedes over the line into outrageousness.

It's not so much the status or the weight of the other candidates but our tendency to remember and look for the extremes of a debate/issue.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

His comments in are utterly reprehensible and one hopes he will get shown up as the race goes along for what he is.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

He's having a ball, he has no desire to president whatsoever, and he just keeps coming out with more extreme bollocks just to see if he can get away with it.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I like the idea this is a prank that's gone too far. Each time he thinks that this time he's finally gone to far he is met with even more rapturous applause.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Maybe he's just trying to show the world how many idiots there are in the US.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I think ISIS are now Trump supporters :) Music for their ears .. just what they want.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I do not agree with him but I can't help wondering what we would be saying if the roles were reversed and there had been an outbreak of religiously motivated christian terrorist attacks in ,lets say, Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have now started to talk about banning any more christians emigrating to their country. What would the comments here be?

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

We hold America to a higher standard than Saudi Arabia. I don't think anyone here holds any illusions as to what that country is like. The fact you have to go to them to make a comparison to Trump shows how extreme his comments are.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I picked them at random. Let's say Yemen or Iran or Turkey. Pick one. What do you think that we would be saying about their (hypothetical) reaction?

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

How about not playing stupid games and deal with what has actually happened eh?

Trump is a complete idiot. A Head Of State is meant to represent an entire nation, not just a majority and certainly not just angry people who have it in for the world.

We have seen what happens when people are targeted for their religion, we should never go anywhere near that again and Trump has veered into fascism territory with his comments.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I don't know but the banning of an entire religion is only an action we would expect of a really oppressive state. I don't think we would say much because we already expect it. Now if a traditional liberal, Western, state had a serious politician suggest it the condemnation would be swift.

I don't understand the point here. I can't see a legitimate comparison to be made between a liberal democracy and a country like Iran. I assume you're trying to point out a different in how they would be treated but it's so contingent on the nation doing it that of course the reaction would be different.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Nothing has happened. He's simply chucked a stupid statement out there (probably to deflect attention from some other news that he wanted buried).
It is interesting though that there seems to be one rule for what 'western' polititians are allowed to say and another for what would probably be tolerated from muslim leaders.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

The only thing "interesting" is your desire to deflect any argument away from Trump and back to what you don't like, which is pretty clear.

Religious hatred of any type is simply unacceptable, and your attempts to change the subject because it happens to be against Islam are a non sequitur. I think it's pretty clear that most Western politicians when asked would find the majority of Saudi politics for example to be pretty darned backwards and at times barbaric, but that has nothing to do with this topic.

Besides, nobody has said, least of all in America that Trump isn't allowed to say what he likes. However, there is nothing wrong with calling his remarks inflammatory, backwards and frankly absurd.

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

His comments may seem absurd, but how come nobody else is making any suggestions that are remotely viable? Do you think that the situation is going to get better?

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

lol. Post #10 I said that I didn't agree with what he'd said and in post #15 I said that what he said was stupid. I can't really make my position on what he said any clearer......apart from that I was thinking out loud, but you carry on m8 :D

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I cannot say what I think of the rug wearing Trump, as the swear filter will explode or I'll get banned.

But I'm surprised he hasn't called for the law to be change to allow the shooting of Muslims:rolleyes:

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

When you say "call for shut down of muslim immigration" do you mean the populations of many country's and world leaders have spoken out that all Muslims should be banned from emigrating?

Or has one prat suggested Muslims be banned from entering the US?

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

Your faux outrage really does not help, a sensible and considered response is the way forward. He has made a stupid comment and never mentioned killing anyone.

Yes he is a prat, but you're reacting to him the way he is reacting to terror. An unfortunately the FACT is, more people will be murdered by people claiming to be muslims. 90% of the population understand this is not ALL Muslims. But it is people claiming to be muslim.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

That one.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

It's actually 69%

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

He's not the first, ron Paul was doing this 30 years ago, trump can't even manage to be origional

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...037007?SThisFB

The man is a complete twonk..

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:53 ----------

However Boris has had the last word.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

.

Brilliant!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

The US is a liberal Western democracy, where freedom of religion and freedom of expression are Constitutional rights. You can't compare it to Saudi Arabia etc. As Damien said, the US (and other Western countries) are rightly held to a higher standard.


Trump has the right to spout his BS, and everyone else has the right to call it out for what it is..

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Do you have a source for this "FACT"? Are you talking worldwide, or regarding a specific country?



If you are talking about the US, given the subject of this thread, then I'm afraid that your "FACT" is not actually true.

New York Times: Homegrown Extremists Tied to Deadlier Toll Than Jihadists in U.S. Since 9/11

OK, that's from June, and since then fourteen people were murdered in the San Bernadino shootings, taking it to 40... although the recent Planned Parenthood shooting in Colorado Springs resulted in the deaths of three people, with the suspect being a white right-wing extremist who claims to be a Christian, making it 51 versus 40 (when adding on just those two incidents).

And, of course, the non-Muslim count is likely to actually be even higher given America's daily mass shootings...

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Dumber and dumberer...

Trump now wants to close down the Internet to stop radicalisation of children.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...-a6764396.html

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Yeah, even Trump can't be this stupid deliberately. This must be a joke, surely?


Or a complete lack of self awareness of his own gross incompetence. Asking Bill Gates to shut down the Internet? I mean if you're going into the absurd, at least be relevant and say Zuckerberg or something!

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Excellent front page on the Philadelphia Daily News (and a clever play on words/images).

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/12/11.jpg

Re: call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

The biggest problem is he supports guns which means he will have many voters who will support him no matter what he does or says.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

looks like some of what he said has been backed up by our own police:
link

This has also been said to me by a met police armed response officer.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

"Confirmed" by Breitbart again, eh?

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

London Cop Tells LBC: "There Are No-Go Areas"

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Sadly generally the only people who dare break with the group-think tend to do so while making the most idiotic statements, making the legitimate points behind what they say trivial to ignore.

Politicians of all colours are happy to ignore inconvenient truths. They have for years. Why break the trend now?

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Don't knock the source. Examine what is being said.
My personal experience with what armed officers say to me bears this out as well btw.

---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 ----------

Exactly :(

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

So there is a kernel of truth about what trump said.I'm sure there are areas in say Marseille, france where the police are hesitant about entering unless in force.Now there is no way that his policy would be enforcible in this politically p.c. world but is paris.san bernadino just going to be the "new normal"and we will just have to get used to frequent slaughter of innocents.Because bombing Syria will do absolutely nothing to stop the flood of people to the e.u. and the rise of isis.Isis think and do the unthinkable we are scared to even contemplate doing anything unthinkable so we lose everytime.The politicians have to be seen to be doing something even if it is the wrong thing.Desperate times call for desperate measures.Lastly let me play devils advocate and ask if heavens forbid a "call to arms"ever came who's side would the assimilated/homeborn muslim population of the western Europe and the u.s.a. be on?.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35058601

The irony...

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

There's parts of Glasgow and London that police officers won't venture into, and it's not because of Muslims, it's because the vans/police officers will get attacked by the local white residents; I know some Leeds police officers (of various ranks and duties), and there are parts of Leeds they won't enter at night unless they go mob-handed, and the residents are mostly UK white citizens.

Growing up in Govan in the 50s and 60s, plod went around in threes for safety - nothing to do with Islam.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

:tu:

There are parts of Portsmouth that ordinary folk won't enter let alone the police,emergency agencies and it has to do with criminal behaviour and not Muslims.
Mind there are those who fail utterly to differentiate between Sikhs,Hindus and Muslims.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Worrying this doesn't seem to have hurt Trump in the polls. I am not convinced these polls are correct because there are so few Republicans that back Trump publicly, even Fox News are repulsed by him, but it's still concerning. The Republican party are paying the price for fostering conspiracies that a monotone moron like Trump can be in serious consideration and whilst he wouldn't win the national election, and I still believe doesn't stand a chance of the nomination, he is going to seriously hurt the Republican party if he causes the more moderate candidates to go off piste and engage on his hate-mongering nonsense.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

He's said if he doesn't win the Republican nomination, he will stand as an independent.

I would imagine Hilary Clinton is hoping and praying this happens...

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londo...-a3133971.html

I read this item with great interest. The one great thing about this country, is the values we have of Freedom of speech.

This is what the United Kingdom is about. Since this whole business started, we have people saying this and that. There are places we can and cannot go.

My son for example is going to a football match tonight and travelling by tube - he is terrified because of what is happening in the world.

We cannot be put off by name slagging, and people who are scared to say anything, in case it offends.

Yes, there are things happening in this world, but people have to carry on living.

I have NEVER been a racist, and never will be. But, l always wonder what to say in front of people in case this offends. This should NOT be happening.

We should be allowed to express our views without any repercussions. Its called FREE SPEECH.

Remember Speakers Corner in London - FREE SPEECH

---------- Post added at 15:51 ---------- Previous post was at 15:50 ----------

Remember the slogan - Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

The woman is rabid self publicist, London is better off is she decides to leave it. Perfect columnist for the DM, marriage made in heaven.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Free speech shouldn't and doesn't extend to being irresponsible or offensive, why should anyone's right to free speech extend to causing someone else upset, perhaps your son can exercise his right to free speech by shouting fire hysterically at the football tonight, you'll be fine with that obviously and expect no reprocussions

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

You seem to have forgotten that FREE SPEECH does not mean that ANYONE is allowed to INCITE hatred of other groups and to promote violence and abuse of any group.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

And of course, freedom of speech only extends to protection from persecution by the government for your views.

It does not mean you can say anything you like and expect people to say "Yes, Quite". Nobody should ever be shocked that when they use inciteful and inflammatory language that people react in the same tone in response. In fact, it is very often the case that people who seek to remove the rights from others seem to the first to try to protect their own (Case In Point, most of Donald Trumps rhetoric), funny that.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Point of order: it does extend to being offensive. As long as it's the right kind of offensive of course, one that hasn't been banned yet.

In theory, at least, the right to free speech trumps the right to be free of upset, bar in 'safe spaces' where children who've gone to university go to avoid having to grow up and face reality.

Or at least it used to. I may be behind the times and somewhat old fashioned in placing generally free expression ahead of hurt feelings.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I don't think Trump should be banned - let him come here and be laughed at.

'Free speech' should not be an excuse for inciting violence.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Yes, many will laugh but there will also be a sizable IMO minority that will like what he has to say.

Especially in the light of:

Linky

I'm sure many will also say that if we had been a bit more selective about who we had let in over the decades we might be somewhat safer now?

Nor should violence or the threat of violence be used an excuse to suppress views that a vocal minority, particularly on the left, disapprove of.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Threats of violence? You mean the sorts that the likes of the BNP, EDL and other racist groups regularly use? There is a difference between disapproving of someone views, and silencing them.

How many times must someone point out that freedom of speech does not remove the right to reply, or strongly disagree. Freedom of speech means you are able to express your views in an open manner without the threat of sanction by government, it is not a license to say what you like without consequence in broader society. If your views are found wanting by your peers, then their judgement is a fully legitimate and required tenet of the freedom you enjoy.

Also, regarding immigration policy we have seen reductions in crime y/y for decades, and even more so since the 90's and the signing of Maastricht, so as we are safer WITH the immigration policy we have had, there is little evidence that we would be any safer with being "selective".

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

:tu:

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

What is this country coming to?

Muslim forced off Tube after commuter complained he used iPad 'suspiciously'

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

It's not coming to anything. Bigots and morons have and will always be bigots and morons.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Seems a lot more of them in the current climate ..

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

He probably had this on it :angel::D

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Only if your a douche it does, personally I don't think anyone sane or with a scintilla of intelligence would use this right as a cop out for their inappropriate behaviour

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

You would put hurt feelings above free speech?!:erm:

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I just prefer to think of others before I let my mouth run of and if on occasion situations get the better of me I don't hide behind 'I have the right of free speech', to me it's a cop out and a bit of an insult to the entire concept.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

No indeed they wouldn't, however we were talking about freedom of speech, not speech without consequences.

Freedom of speech allows me to describe someone who gets upset at everything as an extra-special snowflake, and allows them to tell me to sit on it and rotate in return.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Well I'm sorry, but I prefer to reserve, and cherish, the right to tell an extremist a**hole to take his (or her) koran or bible and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I'm amazed that you don't agree with this concept but that is your perogative.......strange as it is. I am truly amazed at your thinking.

---------- Post added at 23:29 ---------- Previous post was at 23:28 ----------

Indeed.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Perhaps I'm not getting my point across very well, just because you have the right to offend doesn't mean you should exercise it generally imo. I'm not talking about all those precious snowflake types either but 'normal' people.

You must travel in very different circles to myself, I've never met an extremist and if I did and he was particularly annoying I think I'd be more inclined to shove that bible or Koran or whatever where the sun doesn't shine than simply tell him to.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

This.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

You aren't.

I'm not entirely sure where I said that just because I could as I rule I would. A major point of rights is that you can choose not to exercise them. If you have to they stop becoming rights and become obligations.

Besides, if being offensive is done as a matter of routine it loses most of its impact. If saved for special occasions it's far more satisfying.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Talking about bigots and morons:

Katie Hopkins was challenged to name 'swathes of UK where control has been lost to Muslims' and couldn't do it

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I hope the Muslims treat her as a joke as much as the rest of us do.

Well not really. I hope they don't like her as much as the rest of us do.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Please tell me I'm not the only who can see how wrong the above comment is.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

You're not the only one.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Yes she has made some outrageous statements and when challenged she can never substantiate them but sadly there are others like her.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Buy Donald Trump loves her, so she can't be all bad...

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Still not convinced Trump isn't doing this all as a joke to make either other republicans seem less looney or the democrats a better option.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/12/5.png

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I comfort myself with the knowledge that even American's could be stupid enough to elect him, then I think of Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush ....

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

To quote Russell Howard

"Trump has all the charisma of a turd that won't flush"

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

In comparison to Trump, Bush is a positive genius with a far more liberal character.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Trump is a genius.

No other republican candidate is getting any airtime whatsoever.

Also Clinton and Obama have now started having a go at him, meaning even more air time for Trump.

Clinton knows if trump gets the nomination that it'll be a walkover .

That said, it's a forgone conclusion that Clinton will be the next president.

It doesn't matter who the GOP candidate is, none of them will win against Clinton.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

No I think Trump is a megalomaniac..

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Some of them might. Rubio especially. He is probably their nightmare candidate especially if he can bring on someone good as his running mate. He presents a different generation, he can bring on Latino voters and he will likely win Florida. He takes his home state and then brings New Mexico and Nevada along then he could well win it.

His national polling compared to Clinton is pretty good too: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...nton-3767.html

He is their best chance. However much like Corbyn here there is a wave of anti-establishment votes from those who don't really seem to care if they win power as long as they can cause chaos in the political systems. They're going for populists over realists and radicals over moderates.

It doesn't really work because most people are largely moderate but they only turn out when it matters. However this could be enough to kill the Republican party's chances in 2016. I don't think he'll get the nomination but he might still do enough damage to the party to cost them or allow them to elect someone who appears sane by comparison but is still a wacko.

Alternatively maybe he monopolies the attention so much that he protects the rest from taking negative press leaving them undamaged once one of them has have nomination....

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

He is, you only need see the words trump in twenty foot high letters outside each of his buildings to know that

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

he thinks using big words makes him clever;)

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

What about the muslim family of 4 adults and nine kids going to America for their holiday... At Gatwick they were approached by an American official (Homeland Security?) and told that they were refused entry! at the final hour and the airline is refusing to compensate them of £9000.

Trump syndrome creeping in.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Link?

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

Link about story
I assume 2 of the adults referred to are the CHILDREN. No adult female, eg the Mother.

Anybody for some facts? Strange concept I know.:rolleyes:
Link from 1st Dec
Congress was planning that BEFORE Trump said anything.
Link

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

I am not clear how your last two links relate to the Muslim family refused entry. Can you clarify? Thanks

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

They now cannot use the previous Visa waiver scheme. It is a different process, ie interview stage now involved. It is a brand new set of rules brought in very recently. They used the online visa waiver scheme which is no longer valid in their circumstances.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35167511

Irrespective of any dubious 'rationale' underlying such a decision, why should the airline compensate them for something which isn't anything to do with it?

If the US wants to go down the route of locking itself down, best of luck to them. I can't understand why anyone would want to go there in the first place - you've far more chance of being blown away by a home grown, gun toting, constitution quoting manic in the US than being the victim of terrorists or just about anything else (except obesity in all probability). The world is full of equally scenic, interesting and much safer places to be, so the answer is to take your tourism money elsewhere and leave the US to its paranoia.

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

AFAIK the current US/UK Visa Waiver is still in force - see https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa If you meet the requirements, you can travel to the US via this scheme.

What is not disclosed here is why the US refused entry for this family in particular ..

Re: Call for shut down of Muslim immigration
 

This may be the issue
Link
"Blown of out proportion" doesn't say "didn't happen".

I doubt the officials would be given details, just a "allow" or "deny" entry.

Not a Muslim.