McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-disarm-police

What sort of party is Corbyn running? They seem to be hell bent on creating a 1970's style loony left London borough.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Corbyn isn't going to last long me thinks. Even his own cabinet brief against him.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Yeah the guy made an impact but his ideas are becoming incredibly ridiculous now, Nuclear Disarmament a few weeks ago wasn't it? Stripping the UK of it's super power status.

He sounds more like a green peace leader than a politician. I think he's doing an amazing job of burying the labour party and handing the tories a landslide election. If he can convince people in his own party to follow his beliefs then I think that settles it.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

It's like they just appoint people randomly in the labour party these days.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Caretakers to take the flak until close to an election when the real leaders will be announced ... :dunce:

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

These are people SELECTED by the Labour party, VOTED in by Labour voters and around for SEVERAL years. They weren't just randomly dragged off the street yesterday.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

I don't support any party so can look at it as a complete neutral, Miliband wasn't this much of a tool, it's like Corbyn is trying to press a giant self destruct button within the labour party. Miliband was weak overall but he wasn't by any means a complete nutter. :erm:

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

It makes me question their choice, did they have any intention of building support for the next election, it's been made clear that you won't win an election by just relying on the areas that are generally favorable to supporting one party regardless of Policy, notably the North East whom just vote labour blindly each time (My source being my own grandmother for one)

They'd have to steal seats away or pander to the neutrals like myself. Right now however, I don't feel like I want to vote to elect a guy that's coming across as an absolute madman.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

They haven't just materialised out of nowhere. They have been around for quite a while. If they are truly undesirable or unrepresentative of the Labour party, why weren't they got rid of a long time ago?

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Corbyn won't last long with all the controversy he will be gone by next summer as they will realize no one would vote labour with him as leader.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

There's a few around here who think he's great! :spin:

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

I have no idea who he is, then again I already made it clear I follow neither party. Just making it known that this guy's statements are turning my head for the wrong reason. That's why I'm questioning what the Labour party are up to.

Can they really win an election using Corbyn? I never suggested he appeared out of nowhere, that wasn't my post. I was just questioning the Labour parties choice after you correctly made clear he was chosen through a system and not out of the blue.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Because they were largely irrelevant for decades and clearly not representative of anything very significant. Due to Labour's implosion following the Brown/Miliband years, they're no longer irrelevant. The token lefty clown is now running the Labour circus and that says far more about those who stood against him than anything else.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

And here we have it in a nutshell. We spend billions so Dave can strut around at a penis contest with other 'super power' leaders, haven't got a bean for police or the NHS but we have billions for nukes, they aren't even independent, yeah you go Dave only trouble is every one else at the top table knows the truth

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...dependent/9293

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

The only logical explanation for Labour allowing Corbyn to carry on like this is to finally kill off Labour's hard left faction by showing them to be about as electable as Jimmy Saville.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Labour has been infiltrated by large numbers of hard-left activists who have an unweighted vote in the choice of leadership thanks to idiotic changes made to the selection system by a certain Mr E Miliband. There is no point in the PLP trying to unseat him in a coup, because the constituency that selected him is still there.

The Tories already found out all this to their cost, when Iain Duncan Smith was elected on the strength of his popularity amongst the broader membership, in spite of the reservations of the party's MPs. A party's grass roots does not reflect the wider electorate. The leader must primarily attract the support of the Parliamentary party, because the Parliamentary party is the only vehicle by which laws might be made and the country might be governed. And for the parliamentary party to be elected, its leader must have appeal beyond the core vote (and most certainly beyond the activist base, which is even narrower). Also, the Parliamentary party consists of of politicians, who are usually rather better at understanding how to appeal to the masses. They have to be, because their own jobs depend on it.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

It happened before in the late 70's with The Militant Trotskyist Group The result was nearly 2 decades of Tory government.

It wasn't until Labour purged itself of the hard left and became more centerist that it became electable again.

Funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Yes, some of us are old enough to remember all that and wise enough to learn something from it. The same old names peddling the same old nonsense - far nastier and more extreme than any so called Tory ****.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

The issue for the Labour as well is that these new grassroots members seem to have no real interest in obtaining power. They are far more concerned about moralistic grandstanding and purging Labour of the Blairites whom they detest more than Tories (although they really do hate the Tories).

I think their goal is to hold onto the Labour party and, crucially, the apparatus that entails until the Tories eventually become so unpopular that they will be voted out no matter whose in charge. Then they'll strike. It's a insane idea but probably works in their own heads.

The moderate Labour members are being sidelined and the 'momentum' organisation may attempt deselections in future. The only thing that is giving the moderates hope is that Corbyn is so dreadfully woeful as leader it's unlikely he will be able to hold on long enough for the far-left to gain a foothold. Even amongst the new membership there isn't enough of the militants to vote in another of Corbyn's crew if the moderates rally around one candidate.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

That's a pretty frightening prospect.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Its worth remembering a few things here.

The press is mainly right wing bias, so they will be out to try and dirty left wing shadow cabinet members even if it means lieing to do so (yes the sun is trash like the daily mail and NOTW in they will make stuff up).

You guys are advocating a central labour party like it was under blair and what liz kendall wanted, one that will probably back everything the tories and do then begs the question what is the point of a party that is a clone of the tories?

Dispite the viewpoint on here millions of people like corbyn in this country, there is a reason he is popular with many and why he got voted in.

With all that said tho labour will be unelectable, I said this when he got the leader gig, but also as has been pointed out by people a left wing labour will serve as a better opposition then a central labour party.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Corbyn didn't get voted in by 'millions of people' so how on earth do you know how popular he is? A left wing Labour won't be a better opposition, it'll just be a perpetual opposition. An unelectable Labour party can do far less to stop the Tories than one which is in government.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

"The media"? Does that include the Mirror (so far to the left it would struggle to get around a roundabout)? Or the Guardian?

There's a difference between backing the tories and being a credible opposition. Half of Labour's problem isn't their policies, but rather the infighting and the obvious feel of it being Amateur Night at Labour HQ. For example, its not really an issue if Labour opposes Trident or not (the voters can decide on that themselves), but rather how the Labour leadership announced that Ken Livingstone was to carry out a defence policy review without mentioning the fact to the Shadow Defence Secretary Maria Eagle. It smacks of either complete amateurism, or a desire by the hard left of the Labour party to take "their" party back.

As for "New" Labour being Tory clones, as a naturally right leaning voter (but not a conservative or UKIP voter) I'd disagree they were tory clones, however they did do one thing that no Labour government did before them...

They won elections.

Corbyn got himself voted in by Labour's activist vote and a large number of "three quidders". These aren't your average voter, who rolls up and puts a cross in a ballot box to return an MP. Political party membership in the UK is at an all time low, and those that are party members and activists don't represent the vast majority of people who aren't.

Just look at the conservatives under IDS. He was popular with the party, but was about as much use as fart in the wind.

What purpose is there to perpetual opposition? Labour has already shrunk back to its core mining areas, and even these are under threat from UKIP (basically the tories but not called the tories so you can vote for them with a clear conscience). If Corbyn and his cronies carry on, the only people left voting Labour will be the subscriber base of the Socialist Worker (all twelve of them) and marxist university lecturers.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Yes, of course, it's all lies, John McDonnell never really signed the letter calling for MI5 to be disbanded.

Oh no hang on a minute he did after all.

http://order-order.com/2015/11/19/di...donnell-photo/

The "right wing media" don't *need* to tell lies about the current Labour leadership.

In the words of the now ex-Labour party member, the comedian, Robert Webb, Jeremy Corbyn seems "almost GM designed by Tories to lose the next election".

It has got so bad, the Telegraph's sketchwriter has complained that the Labour front bench is in danger of putting him out of a job:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-of-a-job.html

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

That's what happens when you have serial troublemakers suddenly in positions where people (quite rightly) pay attention to them and expect a bit of consistency.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Some people just can't help themselves and it's great watching them and their apologists squirm every time they're caught out. Whether it's lies, spin, hypocrisy or just flawed ideology/policy, they never learn.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

It's going to be interesting where disaffected Labour supporters will cast their votes. Not the Tories and the Lib-dems are a busted flush. UKIP could be the surprise dark horse here.

Re: McDonnell accused of supporting call to ban MI5 & disarm the police
 

Does UKIP allow dark horses?... :D