need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear Ladies and Gents,


story short, we live in a shared house and its 7 of us.
me and my next door house mate regularly play online games.
past few months, i posted a thread about our issues.

our landlord lately upgraded our internet service from 30mb plan (Virgin Media off-course) to a 100mb plan.
for a few days the internet was very fast, then got worse. (so the difference between 30mb or 100mb is so minimal - maybe non-existent)
we use a Virgin Superhub (1st generation).
download speed, in-game ping and everything else is so bad.
I usually get this DISCONNECTION THING, means there is no internet connection available at all, and the OS says the CONNECTION IS LIMITED. it usually fixes itself after 4~5 minutes.. weird!?
also, I regularly experience 3~6kb/s download speed. especially if im downloading a few things simultaneously.
Connecting to the superhub via http://192.168.0.1/ is almost always very difficult, not responsive and slow as well.

superhub is in the living room.
we have a Netgear Powerline 500 + Wifi connected via a socket in the first floor to extend the wifi coverage.
I use a Wifi PCI card and i also use a BT Powerline Ethernet like this:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/11/7.jpg

i also made 2 videos to show you the in-game network connection lag (spikes): (very short videos)
https://youtu.be/JJuy_EmFDdE (problem at second 12)
https://youtu.be/PHMJbBontZI (problem at second 13)

i play FPS games like Battlefield Hardline, Black Ops 3 on a capable PC and League of Legends.
during the weekends, the internet is the worst. but then during morning weekdays when the majority of people are out there is not much improvement.

i need help. we need help.
when we contact Virgin, they say everythings fine on their end.

any tip, help, advice to make the life easier for us?

many thanx in advance.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

3 problems dude:

1) shub1
2) wifi on shub1
3) powerlines

For starters shub1 is all round pants and I wouldn't expect it to handle traffic to seven devices simultaneously with any degree of competency. Secondly the wifi is absolutely diabolical on shub1 and I would honestly just rule out using it full stop. Thirdly, powerline adapters are very flaky. Wireless is variable anyway with regards to interference between yourself and the router/extender but then there is also interference on your electrical circuit which can completely kill your connection between the adapter/extender to the router. The fact that your laptop/pc is saying connection is limited means your connection to the router is dropping.

There is no easy to fix this if you are living in student accommodation and renting. For starters I would do two things.

1) Take a laptop downstairs and directly connect to the shub through one of the ethernet ports on the back with a patch cable and run some speedtests. If this works and your connection remains stable then you know it is the wireless which is letting you down.
2) If that fails I would put the shub in modem mode which will kick everyone else off the network and try the wired test again. The laptop/pc connected to the shub will be the only device with internet access.


In an ideal world the following would solve all your problems: put the shub in modem mode and buy a proper router like this. It absolutely kicks ass and wouldn't have a heart attack like the shub does when lots of people want to use the internet at the same time. The wireless range would be significantly better and go a long way to improve your current situation. To make things perfect I would either run some patch cables from the router under the carpet to rooms around the house in order to provide direct wired connections or as a minimum one cable upstairs to a second router which can serve as a wireless access point and further extend the range and signal throughout the house.

It is worth thinking about. If you are there for the rest of the academic year it would work out around £20 each for you and your pals for either option and from a cost/benefit point of view I think it is money well spent and if you can prove it works perfectly (which it will) then you might be able to convince your landlord to reimburse you at the end of the year. Tbh though, for the amount of time I spend on the internet and playing games I would be happy to cough up the dosh myself.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I have wifi and I also have powerline adapters. Service is crap on both so likely to be the SH or the service like General says.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear G.Maximus,

let me first thank you for your kind response.
I am living here for nearly 2 and a half years and im not a student.
being a university graduate in Sound Engineering and production, it is very difficult for me to find a job related to my studies.
I live in birmingham, and as my earnings from my job is absolutely under what you call minimum wages, i can not afford to move out. (i dont pay council tax here and all the bills are included)
gaming is my only hobby.
im probably stuck here for sometime unless i find a job that is no zero-hour-contract and does pay well.
i do not have a laptop unfortunately.
me and my neighbour both have gaming pcs and taking it downstairs for a speed test will be much of a hassle.
i can not use a wired connection to my room. the positioning of my room, the shape of my window and the layout of the house does not simply allow me to use a cable - and we dont have carpet in the house) and my landlord does not want to spend a single penny to remove a brick to let a cable in. he also does not allow me to do that i was to take the bill.
so wifi and powerline are the only options available to me.

the only option that is there is to ask my landlord to get us a new router. he is willing to do that, but i simply can not ask him to pay something insane. hes a nice guy, a very nice guy, and he cares, but he doesnt go beyond that.

i made a few contacts with the Virgin, and though i wanted to replace our router with the new superhub, all they did was to convince me that it would not improve anything.
now, the router you posted the link for, does it support wifi??
are there any other suggestions for a router?

as i said, we r only 2 gamers in the house and the others are living with minimal wage and they wont pay a penny to upgrade anything.



p.s. the link you gave me, the router does not seem to have the port for the internet cable that Virgin has. our internet cable looks like a co-axial antenna cable..

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

the shub is a combi modem router. The modem part (modulator-demodulator) is the thing which converts your network packets to whatever signals it needs to (before anyone mocks me you should know I am biting my tongue having to describe it this way) to send off to the internet. The modem sends incoming data to a router to "route" the traffic across the lan/to a particular subnet. I say all this so you understand the difference. In my case I have what I have described above as I have the shub acting solely as a modem and I have a separate router. In your case you are using the shub as a modem and router and thus a single device. The coax connection is for the modem part and the 4 Ethernet ports on the back are the router part.
You will always need a shub connected with the coax cable because it is the only way you'll get internet access. If you the put the shub in modem mode it disables the wifi, all routing functionality and all the ethernet ports on the back. The only port active is port 1 which your proper router will connect to so it can send all external traffic off to the internet.
I don't recommend things willy nilly. Yes you can get a different router cheaper (probably around the £40 mark) but the router I have recommended is pretty much top of the range for the stupidly cheap price of £65. Trust me, it is an absolute bargain. The only other routers I would recommend are the lower models in the same range which are more expensive or similar models from other brands such as Asus which are £100+ as this one should be.

Btw, if you ring VM again I would defo let them send you another router to try. Shub2 is far better in every regard. It's routing functionality is far more stable and the wifi is a lot better as well. I would give that a go and see if there is any improvement but still think about getting a proper router which will be even better.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

may have a chat with u?
do use steam?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I do

not now, I have had a very busy day and I am literally just about to lie down in bed and watch some Babylon 5. I am up to 4x16 and it is getting to the good bit.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

ok then. may i ask you when u got freed, add me on steam as i some questions to ask. may need help when installing a new router too.
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198013314259/

many thanx.
i will be waiting for you invitation then.

thanx again and have a good night ^^

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

you can ask all the questions you want on here, just make a list. If I don't answer them (when I am at work) I can guarantee someone else will. There are plenty of active forum members with extensive knowledge and experience in networking.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

You realize the G.Maximus is the butt muscle, right?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

good point, everyone can address as General from now on :ninja:

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------

As an fyi I have just scrolled down to the bottom of the router page and read the blab and come across this:

" Additionally, the Linksys Dual Band AC1200 Wireless 3.0 Adapter (WUSB6300) enables you to upgrade your laptop or desktop computer to fully benefit from the faster speeds of wireless-AC technology to stream high-definition video or enjoy high-speed gaming"



I know it is an additional cost (maybe you can put it on your xmas list) but you need to look at it from a cost/benefit point of view. If you get yourself setup with decent stuff from the get go just think of how many hundreds of hours of gaming you'll be able to enjoy.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

ok.
i waited for some time, but unfortunately you did not add me on steam.
i understand if you dont want to. thats fine.

lets see. my landlord called Virgin twice, and they did not send us a new router what so ever. they repeat the same thing over and over again; that the internet is fine on their end..

got really frustrated.

but wait, for 2 days my BT Ethernet powerline extender was completely disconnected. it did not even show the router, nothing.
i unplugged it, then plugged it again and miracles happened!
the internet is running and the Black Ops 3 was super fast and smooth with 30~40 ms ping.
then, after 1 hour lag started.
so i thought, it might be my ethernet connection. played around a little bit and BANG!
every time i press Play on steam for BO3, the internet disconnects. i lose steam's connection and internet connection as a whole. but then i quit the game and after 10 seconds the internet is working again.

is there any tips how to fix this??

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear Mud Wizard,

Many many thanks for your response and kind step by step help. i feel i might get somewhere with your tips and help.

1 - I did setup a BQM graph, and I enabled Wan Ping Respond in the Superhub sttings, then rebooted the router.
here is the link:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...370514a5a.html

2 - i pinged my powerline to the IP address you provided. the results were different each time. take a look:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...015/11/2.png?1

3 - i can not remove the aditional wifi adapter, as some roommates can not connect to the superhub's wifi as of their weak wifi devices.

4 - using either wifi or powerline, as soon as i launch black ops 3, my internet disconnects. this has been the issue since last night. i dont know why!

5 - downstream, upstream and network log: (network log seems to show October instead of November for some reason. so if i checked the network log tomorrow, it would say 19/10/2015)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...015/11/3.png?1
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...015/11/4.png?1
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...015/11/5.png?1

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Could you describe exactly how your networking equipment is connected.

You said you have two types of powerline adapters: Netgear and BT.

Are both connected to the Superhub?
At the same time?


---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ----------

[QUOTE=Deathcrush87;35808656]
1 - I did setup a BQM graph, and I enabled Wan Ping Respond in the Superhub sttings, then rebooted the router.
here is the link:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...370514a5a.html

Your BQM graph looks good after the initial red packet loss, which I assume is where you rebooted your Superhub? As you didn't leave it going long enough before rebooting it's difficult to tell what it was like before.

Is your connection any better now?


2 - i pinged my powerline to the IP address you provided. the results were different each time. take a look:

You can run a continuous ping by inserting a -t option before or after the ping address.

Anyway, the data you provided (along with the good BQM) implies that the high latency problem is from your computer to the Superhub (not with the VM network). i.e. with the wifi or powerline. You need to test again without wifi involved to see how the powerline on its own performs.

While the high latency is most likely due to wifi interference, have you checked to see if the two powerlines are also interferring with each other? i.e. Tested with one of them off.

Also resetting the powerline before testing might be a good idea, as you said when you did that previously things improved?


3 - i can not remove the aditional wifi adapter, as some roommates can not connect to the superhub's wifi as of their weak wifi devices.

Surely with this being a serious internet issue you can find some time to test when they are not using it? Only takes a few minutes.


4 - using either wifi or powerline, as soon as i launch black ops 3, my internet disconnects. this has been the issue since last night. i dont know why!

We'll leave that for now until the other problems are resolved.

5 - downstream, upstream and network log: (network log seems to show October instead of November for some reason. so if i checked the network log tomorrow, it would say 19/10/2015)

All modem stats are looking good. The month being off is a well known bug, ignore it.


---------- Post added at 18:59 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

Does your BT powerline adapter have an ethernet port (e.g. on the top) that you can plug your computer directly into without disturbing your house mates? You need to take wifi out of the equation for testing.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

dear Mud Wizard,

yes they are both connected at the same time.
probably this will help:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...015/11/1.png?1

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Your BQM graph looks good after the initial red packet loss, which I assume is where you rebooted your Superhub? As you didn't leave it going long enough before rebooting it's difficult to tell what it was like before.

Is your connection any better now?

lol its actually worse!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can run a continuous ping by inserting a -t option before or after the ping address.

Anyway, the data you provided (along with the good BQM) implies that the high latency problem is from your computer to the Superhub (not with the VM network). i.e. with the wifi or powerline. You need to test again without wifi involved to see how the powerline on its own performs.

While the high latency is most likely due to wifi interference, have you checked to see if the two powerlines are also interferring with each other? i.e. Tested with one of them off.

Also resetting the powerline before testing might be a good idea, as you said when you did that previously things improved?


my BT powerline does not have wifi capability. it only supports ethernet connection. so, one BT thingy is connected to superhub by ethernet cable, then itself is plugged to electric socket, the other is connected to electric socket in my room and is connected to my pc with ethernet cable. it simply does not have wifi.
the cmd pic was for BT ethernet connection only.

btw, i have a PCI-E wifi card which i use for wifi connection.
http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/d...L-WN881ND.html
and im using this as antenna:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ultra-gain...-antenna-a28jb


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surely with this being a serious internet issue you can find some time to test when they are not using it? Only takes a few minutes.

could you kindly tell me how to do the test please?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does your BT powerline adapter have an ethernet port (e.g. on the top) that you can plug your computer directly into without disturbing your house mates? You need to take wifi out of the equation for testing.

yes, as i said above, it does not have wifi abilities, it only use electric socket as a bridge for ethernet connection ^^

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Well since the BQM monitors the latency from the Superhub to Thinkbroadband.com over the VM network and then the internet (excluding wifi or powerline), it shows that your VM connection hasn't gotten any worse.

Average latency (blue) of 10-12ms is very good.
Maximum latency (yellow) is also looking very good.

Your graph:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/11/6.png

My graph:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...18-11-2015.png

So VM were probably correct when they said the issue looks NOT to be on their side.


Since your tests suggest that the latency problem is solely with your BT powerline adapter, or the ethernet cable either end:
- Have you tried swapping the ethernet cables?
- Have you tried using your room mates powerline adapter briefly instead of yours?
- Does your room mate also have the same issues with his Netgear powerline?
- Is your electrical circuit going through a circuit breaker which is affecting both powerline adapters negatively?

You need to work through the possibilities one by one and rule them out, until you find the cause.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Many thanx again for your help ^^

- Have you tried swapping the ethernet cables?
you mean between two BT thingies? i will do that.
- Have you tried using your room mates powerline adapter briefly instead of yours?
no one but me uses powerline adapters, like the BT one.
- Does your room mate also have the same issues with his Netgear powerline?
my next door room mate - who is the only other gamer at our house - uses a wifi USB dongle. oddly enough his internet is more stable than mine, but he suffers from severe lag too. he constantly complains about the internet, and his internet has disconnection issues as well. he mostly connects to superhub's wifi. the netgear's wifi is alot slower, but it provides wifi coverage for other roommates who can not connect to superhub's wifi directly as of their rooms' positioning or older devices. let me tell you this, the Netgear wifi powerline is located in the hallway and no one uses ethernet connection to it. its solely for wifi coverage.
- Is your electrical circuit going through a circuit breaker which is affecting both powerline adapters negatively?
i have no idea. how can i know? you see, if i lost my lights in my room as of the circuit breaker, i would still have the power running through my sockets. does that help?

---------- Post added at 20:39 ---------- Previous post was at 20:32 ----------

update:

there are some severe spikes in the BQM monitor. thats when i played a round of Battlefield Hardline. had lag spikes alot. so, all those normal graphs were for the time i was not doing anything demanding with my pc, simply reading some articles, doing some skype etc.. no downloading, nothing.

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------

update 2:

finally got to play some Black Ops 3. for a few rounds my connection through wifi was perfect, until just now that severe lags started. would defo show on the graph too.

---------- Post added at 23:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Battlefield Hardline round. rounds duration, time when the round ended and local time are marked. please note, the round's end time is approximate, however it matches the time of the spikes on the graph.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...015/11/1.jpg?1

---------- Post added 19-11-2015 at 00:26 ---------- Previous post was 18-11-2015 at 23:43 ----------

ok, a video of when the lag started in game (BO3). lag starts at 3:15.

https://youtu.be/iocy4G3hhx8

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

bump..

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

anyone?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Stop using powerline extenders.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

that is what I was going to say and couldn't be bothered. I don't like repeating myself and I was going to chop out previous bits I have said and I can't even be bothered to do that either so I'll just do the whole thing:

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

hes using a superhub1 (in WIFI router mode) with several others! :erm:

SuperHub2AC or EA6700 ..... job done! :)

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Or just run an ethernet from the ap on the lower floor.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

said that

said that as well

it all falls on deaf ears

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear General Maximus,

thanx for your reply.
as i explained, VM has not been keen in replacing our SH1. what can i do????

what i got from ppl here are really confusing.

Mud Wizard kindly suggested that the problem was not on the VM's side, as the graph was normal.

then the graph showed insane spikes, and i am not sure now, if its the VM's fault or not.

i am constantly switching between my BT powerline and Wifi to get the best results, more or less they are the same.

what no one could explain to me here is that why my internet was running perfectly fine last night, as i could play BO3 for hours using wifi connection with no lags, and the night before that i could not even play one match as my ping was through the roof.
what is not explained, is that why sometimes loading simple website takes so much time, like im using a dial up connection, and the next minute it loads up the same page super fast.
stop using powerline? ok, its disconnected now, and no one is home, but why my internet is slow just right now?
as i explained, VM says the same BS every time i contact them;
1 - that only the landlord can ask for a new SuperHub, not me
2 - and that a new SuperHub will not make any differences

what shall i do??
does raging over the phone fix my internet?

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------

just take a look at the graph below, does it look normal to you at all?

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------



---------- Post added at 14:26 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/11/18.png

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:26 ----------

things i would like to know;

1 - if VM deliberately is not providing the services or the quality they supposed to provide
2 - how to force VM to replace our SH1 with the new one

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

the only way you are going to get a new shub is by directly connection a pc (which means long patch cable from upstairs if you don't want to move your pc downstairs) because the only test VM will accept is from a single device directly connected to the shub so they can rule our wireless interference and any 3rd party hardware (e.g. if you was using your own router). Using a shub 2 will go a long way towards fixing your problems but I still think there are two of three contributing factors. The other two is wifi and electrical interference through the powerline adapters. All of that would be fixed by either getting a proper router with decent wifi or running patch cables straight to the router for a wired connection, all of which I said in my first post. Getting a new router wont fix the interference between your router and the powerline adapters. If you need want a perfect connection for gaming you need to fix all the problems and not just one.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

jolly good.

if i pop in Maplin, ans ask for a CATV for say, 30 meters, will that do?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

many thanx. i will report back the results.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

The graph was only normal after a reboot of the SH1. I did point you to a post written by me on the forum, which explained that the SH1 has a fault/bug/problem which causes high latency ramping over time. It can only be 'fixed' temporarily, not permanently, by rebooting, when in router mode.

The SH1 does not have the problem when in modem mode, so that is another alternative to getting another Superhub.

The erratic minimum latency (green) on the BQM, and general increasing instability is a clear case of SH1 ramping. I've seen hundreds of these graphs with the same issue. i.e. The problem is NOT on the VM network side, it's on the router/Superhub side (which was supplied by VM).

This is part of the problem, that you have multiple technologies and issues that you are trying to test with.

If you try to judge your internet connection by the quality of your gaming to a specific server, then that's just adding several additional technologies into the testing mix and muddying things further.

Until your other problems are resolved its hard to say where your gaming problems lay, especially since people with perfect connections get problems just like you experience on those particular games.

Is it the load on the game server?
Is it the route through the internet?
Is it ... ?

These are all possibilities and you are just adding problems on top of problems.

Right now, with your SH1 graph showing clear signs of ramping, the chances are that it's the ramping issue causing this problem. That's not to say that VM network issues can't cause problems like you've described, but they don't happen all the time.

Do try to bear in mind that people who have good broadband connections also experience problems with certain web sites. It's not called the internet for nothing. VM don't run the internet and only deliver traffic a short distance before other networks (often Content Delivery Networks or CDN's) take over on the route to your web site. So web site problems can happen anywhere down the line on the way to the site, at the site itself or on the way back.

Solve the worst problems first (SH1 ramping), then move on to the next worst and so on..

VM know that the SH1 has this problem and they have exchanged it in the past for SH2/SH2ac, when the customer requests it. They don't want to recall all of them though in one go.

1. According to your first BQM, you seem to be getting the same network quality other people are getting, but you've got a SH1 in the mix which is causing additional issues (ramping), plus you've got dodgy powerline/wifi in the mix as well. The powerline/wifi is not VM's responsibility.

2. If you were the customer the easiest way would be to post on the community forum and ask for a SH2/2ac to be sent by one of the VM Forum Team. No problems with explaining over the phone and getting your landlord to call in etc. They will need some customer info from the landlord, so the landlord will still need to do this.

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:50 ----------

I don't see why you can't....

1. Wait until everybody is out.
2. Put the Superhub into modem mode.
3. Attach a very long ethernet cable to the Superhub and the other end to your computer.
4. Test the basics of the internet (ping some sites). Once you're sure you're getting a decent ping to the Superhub and to the internet (e.g. google) then..
5. Try your powerline adapter in the mix instead. Figure out if there's some problem with it or not. If you have more than 10ms additional latency then its crap.
6. Try someone elses powerline adapter (non-wifi version) instead. If the problem is just with your powerline adapter and not the electrical circuit then buying another powerline might do.
7. More testing etc.

Only after sorting the basics of modem mode (or replacement Superhub), ethernet cable, then powerline or wifi, and getting your internet performing well do you even think about games testing.

Thinking about purchasing a 3rd party router might come in after you're sure your VM connection works ok with a Superhub in modem mode. It's only a replacement for poor wifi or powerline. It wont fix a poorly performing VM connection, or a ramping Superhub if you leave it in router mode.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear Mud Wizard, Im really confused;


then;

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

and going by MUD's last two posts we have circled back round to

a) you need a new shub
b) ideally put the shub in modem mode and buy a proper router

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

i will probably get VM to send us a new superhub, however, that Linksys router would be too expensive for us at the moment.
is there anything cheaper you can suggest?
now, i understand the quality of that router you kindly suggested, but i can not purchase it myself (not that the money is the problem, but landlord and other would not like the idea), so the only option would be a cheaper substitute.

---------- Post added at 11:31 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

are these any good?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/linksys-e1...e-router-a91ku

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/sitecom-x4...e-router-a76kt

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/tp-link-td...l-router-n07nf

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/netgear-si...e-router-a28kr

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/linksys-e9...e-router-n56nt

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/netgear-dg...l-router-n84hw

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/tp-link-tl...e-router-n30nf

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I don't like repeating myself but here we go:

that does not make any sense whatsoever. If you went to the guys in your house and said "hey dudes, I am going to buy a new kick ass router which is going to fix all of our problems" I doubt they would complain. They are definitely not going to rejoice at a cheaper alternative.

I am not being a router snob but like I said before, there is a reason I say things and choose particular things. If you want to buy a cheap naff router then you had might as well stick with the shubs which are free. I haven't gone through every router in that list because I haven't got time but suffice to say that Netgear make the shub (infer what you will), I wouldn't touch tplink with a barge pole and the wan to lan throughput on the Linksys E900 is 94mbits and I imagine the E1500 would be similar.

I understand that you might not want to cough up £65 all by yourself which is why I suggested you spread the cost amongst you flat mates. You would be better off persevering atm and saving up some dosh over the next couple of months and getting the router I recommended (or put it on your xmas list) rather than buying one of the ones you suggested. There is a reason why they are around the £30 mark and they won't fix your problem. You might think £65 is a bit steep but you have got to remember that it is a top of the range router and should be £175.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

well im not sure if that router would still have the same price tag in a few months, the one you suggested i mean. it might be as well sold out at that price point.
unfortunately my housemates are not as understanding as you think. heck, they would not even pay up for the bin bag, or to replace a busted bulb!

there are 6 rooms and 7 ppl. 1 is away at the mental hospital for now. while he was back at home, he would probably spend his whole day staring at the selection menu on the TV anyway.
1 guy is working and studying the whole day, he comes home really late at nights and he just goes to bed.
2 (a couple) only use the internet to stream film and tv series, and my understanding is that now they use their mobile internet and chromecast in order to avoid the slow internet of the house. 2 are gamers, me and my next door's housemate, and as much as im keen on fixing the damn internet, he is not happy with sharing the bill.
1 guy remains, he has a PS3 and he only plays football on his console. he probably does not even know what an email account is.
i can not simply ask them to pay for something that according to them, i would be the only benefactor of it.
taking the bill all by myself will not make them happy. believe me when i say those morons would later suggest that my spendings made their internet slower!! they are not the most intellectual ppl you should know.

the only other option, is to ask the landlord to but a new router, and he will not spend that much. he does not understand your facts and figures, and guess what, imagine he purchased that and for some reason the internet got slow again (for any reason), im screwed! to him, its just an excessive spending because one tenant wants more than others.
i appreciate your help and suggestions, but im living in a shared property and others living here do not appreciate anything.
so, among the list above, or from elsewhere with the same price range, which one would be the best option to go for? looking at the specs i mean. im asking you or others here as i dont have a clue myself.
thanx fr your understanding.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

none of them, I would rather lie my ass off to VM and use a shub2ac

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

What about an Asus?
Currently using a RT-N56U, 2years old with no problem.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

that I would recommend but he won't pay for it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/367/dp/B004T...s=asus+rt-n56u

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

There is one other solution to be considered. Move to another house although this would cost more than buying a router.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Or they will swap it out for £20.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I feel like it is groundhog day, it has already been covered in a previous post (as in he can't).

yup, I would rather pay £20 for a shub2ac than £30 on one of the other routers

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

lol General...

you were like: "nope, there is no cheaper substitute.."
but now you recommend a £10 cheaper Asus?

i bet i spend another 2 days here you would be suggesting a £20 router!!

stop being a perfectionist. for sure between 0 and 100 lies a 50, doesnt it?

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

spec-wise, apart from being a dual band, what is the difference between Asus RT-N56U and Linksys E900?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I chose my words poorly. I would recommend the Asus as a solid model for anyone as a general router because it is rock solid but in your case it would only solve half your problems so I wouldn't suggest you buy it even if you did want to pay £55 for one

for starters the wan to lan throughput on the Asus is 800mbits vs the 94 on the Linksys (which I mentioned in a previous post)

it sure does but in your case 50 won't cut it, you need the full 100 top of the range to address all your problems. If it wasn't for that one router being sold by that one particular vendor on Amazon then you would be looking at £120 for a proper router with the performance and features you need (like I said in my first post).

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

ok. you see my dear General, im using a wifi card that only has a 300 mb/s thing.
and we use a 100 mb VM plan.
and no one in the house has a 5ghz wifi device, beside the PS3 guy, and he really doesnt care.
so, is going for a 800mbits really gonna have much impact?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

When you get a letter in the not too distant future from VM telling you you are being upgraded to 150mbits for free you will be back here moaning your ass off you can't get over 90. Wifi is the way forward and everything is moving to 5ghz and ac so you had might as well get something which is compatible/future proofed now otherwise next time somebody buys a console/phone/tablet/laptop they will be moaning it is slow or they cant take advantage of the full potential of their device.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Couldn't agree more General.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

thanks dude

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

sometimes in life you should look at what you have, not at what you could have..
anyway, ima get the new superhub, then probably will go for a router.. i will try to convince the landlord to go for the general's, if he accepted then YAY!
if not, i will wait then.
any tweaks for the new superhub? port forwarding, channels? i donno..!?
what is the best channel?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

No need to thank me for your good advice given, I'd be the first to jump on you if I didn't agree with you.:D


"what is the best channel? "

Search for and download the free version of inssider which will show the channels being used by everyone in your area. 13 is usually a good bet.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

thanx ^^

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear Mud Wizard,

the only reason im not rebooting the superhub is to show my landlord the problem. every hour or so i save the BQM monitor as a png file, so it would make sense to him that there is actually a problem with our internet.
my landlord promised me to come over on Monday, and then we shall call VM together. hopefully they would send us the new superhub.

btw, what is the difference between SH2 and SH2ac?

after that - getting the new superhub - i will try to convince my landlord to get a proper router, like those which were suggested here. if he said no, then i will wait to have the money for it myself.
also, last time i called VM they said p&p for the new sh would cost us £20, is that true? you mentioned £5.99, i really hope its £5.99.. maybe they are trying to rip us off?

i do not have a 5ghz wifi card yet. i had this on my wishlist;
http://www.dabs.com/products/asus-pc...5H7.html?src=3

talking to a VM staff, he told me 5ghz would be actually worse for me, as 5ghz has less range than 2.4, and that the distance between the router and my room is a big problem. i dont know if its true or not, thats what he babbled to me.

after all, i may try another kind of powerline as well.

---------- Post added at 00:52 ---------- Previous post was at 00:47 ----------

btw, what is this?
http://www.dabs.com/products/asus-n6...4KY.html?src=3

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

The superhub 2 is wireless "N" the superhub 2ac is wireless "ac".

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

what is the difference between N and ac?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

300-600Mbps and 1300+Mbps ish

Next time you look at a card to buy look at the description as well.

"Fastest Wi-Fi standard: 802.11ac
The PCE-AC68 uses Broadcom's new 5th generation Wi-Fi 802.11ac chipset to reach speeds of up to 1.3Gbit/s through the 5GHz band, which is three times faster than 802.11n Wi-Fi. At the same time, it maintains full backward compatibility with all previous Wi-Fi protocols, providing high performance two-way transmission while ensuring a smooth transition to 802.11ac and seamless interconnection with existing devices. "

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

which one should i ask them to send us?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Up to you.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

is there any compatibility issues with our current devices? either N or ac?

well, defo im gonna ask for the ac then, as it has 1300 mb/s

---------- Post added at 01:11 ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 ----------

lol, thats why it was wishlisted ^^
tbh i do not have a clue about any of these technical specs, thats why i post my questions here.

---------- Post added at 01:15 ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 ----------

is my current card compatible with SH2ac?
http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/d...L-WN881ND.html

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Wireless ac is backwards compatable with other devices. You'll still only get the speed they are capable of.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Sorry but I've got to comment here.

The fantastic Wi-Fi speeds that are being quoted here just won't be possible in your situation.

Firstly, the 'ac' standards are only available on the 5GHz band that does have limited range. You'd have to also purchase a 5Ghz ac card in addition to any router.

Being in the 'attic' means that you 'see' lots of other 2.4Ghz networks but the router downstairs won't see all of these and won't be able to co-operate with them. 2.4GHz won't work well.

The only way forward is to get a working powerline system or a Ethernet cable.

Given you've already said that a cable isn't possible then powerline seems the way to go.

I have never used powerline systems but question if two disparate systems can be used together on the same internal wiring? I know that the standards say so but do they actually work together?

In terms of diagnosis of your problems it seems to me that you have significant (if not the only) problems in your internal connection from your PC to the router.

To get reliable and (game) workable connections you need to see less than 1% packet loss and a consistent ping of < 100ms.
From your posts it seems that you can't even get this over your BT powerline adapters - this is where you need to look initially.

Try disconnecting all other powerline system other than the two you are using (just temporarily for a test). Do a ping test for one minute (-n 60) and post the summary after the ping completes here. Would be interesting to do that test both with and without the other powerline system connected.

By the way, do you use the SH1 Wi-Fi? If not, switch it off. The Thinkbroadband graphs suggest that there is significant use being made of the connection. Might be worth looking at the use figures on the SH1 (although known not to be accurate).

Ian

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear Ian,


many thanx for your comment.
so the SH2ac is not backward compatible, is that right?

i tired my BT powerline without Netgear powerline, the difference was quite minimal.
i really think the main problem lies withing the SH1 we have here.
i use wifi mostly, as sometimes BT powerline's connection is unstable.

tbh, i get quite confusing replies here, one says the powerline is bad, the other says its good, the other says you need 5ghz, and one claims wifi is garbage and that solid wired connection is the only way to go.
im running on a very limited budget now, and my first priority is to fix the stability of the internet. then i can focus on making it the best.
one day my connection is so good, the next hour it can not open a wikipedia webpage. one minute my ping is over 1000, the other its less than 30 ms.

my own guess says the problem is either Virgin or the router (SH1).

lets go step by step. lets see if SH2 would fix some of the issues.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

The problem is that wifi is affected by so many other factors, such as distance, thickness and composition of walls and floors, the equipment receiving the wifi, as well as the router (and the SH1 is renowned for poor wifi, but the SH2AC is better).

Powerlines depend on the condition of the wiring, and there often can be problems if different floors are on different ring mains.

btw, the SH2AC is backward compatible.

The only way to guarantee consistent speeds is a cabled link - having said that, I am getting 133Mb/s wifi, but that is on an iPad Pro about 10 feet from my SH2AC.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

It is backward compatible but you can't use its advanced 'ac' technology unless you have a 5GHz wireless 'ac' card in your PC.

Did you disconnect all the other powerline units? Not just the one at the SH1?
What test did you perform after you disconnected the other units?

I would suggest that you need to perform some careful diagnosis test to properly identify where the problem lies.

Test your BT powerline adapter in isolation.

Disconnect all other power line systems and then:-
1. Test the BT system in the same room
2. Test the BT system attic to router
3. Reconnect the other powerline and test again.

The best test is to use the ping command with an extended payload...
On Windows...

ping -l 10000 192.168.0.1 -n 60

This should return zero packet loss and low consistent (<50ms) response time.

Only when you have confirmed your internal network is working ok can you start to point you finger at Virgin.

As mentioned before, the SH1 Wi-Fi has particularly poor range.

If Wi-Fi is the way to go (I doubt it), then one solution would be to connect a cheap good quality wireless 'n' dual band (2.4 and 5Ghz concurrent) router to your existing SH1 and site it on the first floor (or maybe in an elevated position on the ground floor).

Regarding testing the broadband bit directly on the router, do you not know any friends who would be willing to assist with a laptop?

If so, put the SH1 into modem mode and connect the laptop and run a few speed tests. If they can be run at 6am, 2pm and 10pm that would give you a good basis to judge the VM bit.

Cheers,

Ian

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Eh? You're moaning about £10? That's the cost of two pints around here, and I don't even drink.

---------- Post added at 11:19 ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 ----------

Given the PS3 is the biggest console without 5Ghz WiFi I have a hard time believing the rest of your information.

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 ----------

I could, but I won't.

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

Then why are we here at all?

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

14 is always the best channel! ;)

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

You realise the BQM is only worth updating once a day and Thinkbroadband already provides an archive of every PNG file you can download at any time, right?

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 ----------

In this case it's 450 vs 1300.

---------- Post added at 11:23 ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 ----------

Very rarely. Symptoms exactly like this are more the norm.

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 ----------

You've already been told ten times it's backwards compatible.

It's very simple.
Cable ethernet > Powerline > Wireless > Crappy mixed up broken powerline that you don't know how to use.

You've already been told ten times your internet is perfectly stable.


You've already been told ten times that is the fault of your powerline network.

Your own guess is wrong. Maybe listen to what you've already been told ten times by five different people.

We already have. You're ignoring the facts.

---------- Post added at 11:27 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

^^ Eleven times? :D

My phone gets about 800Mbps, but that's because I use hacks.

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 ----------

^^ This.

+1

+11

+11111oneoneoneelevenhundredandone

+over9000

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

@qasdfdsaq

chill your beans mate.
i get a single shot whiskey plus soda on the rocks for £2.70 here.
btw, with additional stuff, you can connect your ps3 to a 5ghz wifi.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

With additional stuff you can connect anything to 5Ghz WiFi, why don't you get it for all your gear?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

well thats the plan.
let me get the new superhub first, then the proper router and then additional stuff ^^

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

What sort of building are you in - thick stone walls (and certain types of concrete buildings with steel rod bracings) can heavily interfere with wifi.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

seems those stubborn *******s are not going to send us a new SuperHub what so ever..
gonna make a complaint then cancel our contract.

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------

nah, its an old building with brick outer walls and wooden interior walls.

---------- Post added at 15:45 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------

lol but my landlord told them off really well :3

---------- Post added at 16:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------

any suggestions for another ISP?
is BT any good?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

..and yet again you didn't follow my advice ; request the Superhub via the community forum.

While they take a few days to answer, you'd get it sorted no problem without having to jump through diagnostic hoops.

Calling regular customer services only results in what you experienced.

The other alternative is to call 'retentions', the thinking-of-leaving department. They deal with a lot more than people who want to cancel. Your landlord could get a new Superhub and money off his bill at the same time.

Btw, you don't have a contract so you can't cancel it.



---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Getting a new ISP is more hassle, money and time than getting a Superhub for free. Also no guarantee whether a BT/Sky connection will work reliably.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

i have to ask my landlord to request this in the Virgin's forums.
i am not the account holder you know. i dont know his account number anyway.

could you please tell me more about this 'retentions'? contact number etc..

my landlord said he would probably cancel it, you wont believe it what treatment we got over the phone. might be a hassle, changing the ISP, but the goodies which come with it makes it worth-while.

just look at the comments here..
seriously i have been treated better in any other forums. not u, but most of others here talk really arrogant.
im just trying to fix the internet/connection or whatever you call it, so atleast i can load a single webpage normally. not much to ask really.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Correct its not much too ask but anything that has been suggested here has been rejected by you. You really need to establish where the fault as there seem to be several different problems occurring.

Start by connecting a PC/Laptop directly to the shub so as to eliminate any problems occurring in your internal network. It will either show an external problem or indicate that the problem is within your house.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

i have ordered a CATV 30 m cable. waiting for its delivery.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

To quote qas "+12"

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


you had better be joking otherwise I am going to ask Hugh to close this thread. I am beginning to wonder if you are related to Telford.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

yeh, i ordered it from ur link Gmax

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:59 ----------

why?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

because you don't need a catv cable and luckily for you you haven't ordered one. You have ordered a 30m utp patch cable.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

so what was the link you gave me?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

(which is what you need)

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

why did you give me that link then?
omg luckily i did NOT order ur linksys..

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

because that is what you need in order to bypass your powerline adapters and establish a direct wired connection to the shub. You have ordered a "network" cable which establishes the connection between your pc and the shub. What you wanted to order is coax which is responsible for your outside connection between the shub (modem) and VM's network.

why?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

someone has to translate to me what this guy is saying..

---------- Post added at 18:39 ---------- Previous post was at 18:38 ----------

because that is what you need in order to bypass your powerline adapters and establish a direct wired connection to the shub

ok, thats what i ordered, so now what?

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I see the confusion he has ordered a Cat5 cable NOT a CATV cable. When he write CATV he meant CAT five. I hope

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

isnt CATV = CAT5? V is the roman numeral for 5..

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

well spotted dude, I would never have got that in a million years because I have never seen Cat5 written as catv

it sure is but you didn't order that either, you ordered a cat5e and if you had written it as catve I might have twigged eventually. I have a networking certification from the gods of networking and I have never seen cat5 written as catv nor cat6 written as catvi. You aren't doing yourself any favours.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

just in case, did your school teacher teach you how to read?
Today, 18:01 Deathcrush87: yeh, i ordered it from ur link Gmax

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

dont need a PHD in anything to spot that..

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

i was like, omg this genius gave me the wrong link or what..

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

You caused the confusion. See here:-

http://www.therealcableguy.com/catv-...components.htm

Those are CATV cables.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

i guess we are all matured enough to know the difference between Television cables and networking ones.
btw, if i were u i would stop taking sides and sarcasm like 5 years old kids.
god, why its always easier to find a solution in American forums, without all these name-calling and arguing? grow up please.
im not here on a verbal joust, im here to ask for advice.

"he is right", "thanx for backing me up there", "ur fault", "u caused it", "u said this"...
jesus christ..
thank goodness i pointed out my limited knowledge in my op.

what are u going to prove? that i dont have the knowledge? well guess what, if i had i would not come here asking.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I think people may have thought you accidentally ordered the wrong one? I fix network faults for VM. I used to be a service tech. With Any kind of fault finding, isolation is key. Either work backwards until it's good, or find a point where it is good and work forward.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

yeh, i thought ppl gave me wrong links.
anyway, i would kindly suggest to those who has already commented and do not have more to say to stop commenting here. i do not need "+" or "i agree" or "hes right" here.
im already proceeding with what i have been suggested.
if you have new info or more help, i truly appreciate your comments. if not, please leave me to collect some more info.


thanx for ur understanding.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

General Maximus has run out of patience and officially withdraws his support from this thread

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

sometimes silence is the best word.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Nothing stopping you starting a thread on the forum, posting all necessary info for the VM advisor, then getting the landlord to come in at the last moment to provide contact info for the account via Private Message.

The VM Forum Team advisor will ask for the landlord to contact them anyway.

You just ask them to send the PM to the landlord instead. The landlord just needs to sign up to the community forum and make one post.

Would have thought this all would have been obvious.

It's accessed via the same number by going through the menu options:

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...n/td-p/2537607

People have given lots of good advice. You keep ignoring it and doing the wrong thing. Not surprised everyone is getting frustrated.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

I hope that's not what you expect to find under the manhole labeled CATV outside your home.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

@MUD_Wizard allright, thanks.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

ok, i got my cat5EEEE, and i ran some tests yesterday and today.
the results were quite mixed.
I got very good ping, but suddenly the internet disconnected.
disconnection happened alot today. literally every 5 minutes the internet went off on cable, wifi, powerline everything.. and then again internet came back on after 1~2 minutes.

i thought the new cat5 was the cause, so i disconnected it and used wifi.. horrible ping i got. used powerline, same story as the solid cable.

you can also check the graph.
restarted the router a few times, did not help with the disconnections.

have not ran the superhub in modem mode yet, gonna do it tomorrow morning when everyone is away.

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Re: need advice and help for a possible fix
 

Dear Mud wizard,

Many thanks again, for your reply.

the thing is, since the last chat with VM, my landlord has lost any interest in the internet issues as a whole.
i told him about retentions, i told him about my test, but tbh he does not even answer my phone calls anymore. lol
gotta work harder i guess.
i will get back with more tests, news etc.