Processed meats do cause cancer
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34615621

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

A bit over the top me thinks..

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

They always say have everything in moderation as l would say over a monthly period l would have about 6 sausages and 2 to 4 rashers of bacon as far as processed meat is concerned and l don't think that is OTT as overall l think l have a pretty balanced diet.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

All food is processed if you really thing about it.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I like a bit of ham,I avoid sausages as they are too full of fat and bacon is a once a month treat.I may have red meat once a week,occasionally twice ..fish,chicken,pulses the rest of the time.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Tax it!

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Yes you would have us all eating rabbit food every day of the month if you was in charge.;)

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

If everyone was vegetarian, these crackpots would still come up with theories like this to justify their jobs. As long as you aren't excessive in what you eat you should be o.k.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Not really 'crackpots'. It's the World Heath Organisation.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Average chance of getting colorectal cancer is 5%, and most people who get it are over 50.

If you eat excessive amounts of processed meats, the risk increases by 18% (of 5%), which means the risk is approx. 6% - not a huge increase in the risk factor....

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Life causes cancer eventually. It's just a question of whether anything else gets you first... :erm: :spin:

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

It's all statistics based on statistics. No real science, no causal proof. As with many things "scientific" these days.

And as Osem infers, life is terminal through cancer if nothing else gets you.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Well statistics are a form of science, in this case it's Epidemiology, but the World Health Organisation do have different categories to distinguish between a causal link and a proven link. This is why they've put processed meats in the carcinogenic category but have not yet placed red meat there despite the relative acceptance that it is a risk.

It's not as if this is one study or it has come out of the blue based on a random sample. There have been many studies and the link between processed meats and cancer has long been suspected but until now they hadn't been sufficiently sure to upgrade processed to meats to 'can cause cancer' level.

They also have a relatively good idea why:

Remember they're not saying you cannot eat meat or demanding government intervention but at least people are now informed and can make the decision for themselves. People will still eat processed meat, including me, but now we know that it increases the risk of cancer. As we know drinking does too.

People should be informed about their food and then make their own choices. It's unobjectionable imo.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I remember reading an article in the 70s that said eating bacon and eggs with coffee was carcinogenic..I said pft then and I say it now..

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Not sure if any health authorities gave that credence but still they're always adjusting and learning more. If it turns out that processed meats don't cause cancer then we'll find that out but the likelihood is that won't happen. Not that many substances find their way onto the Group 1 carcinogenic list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._1_carcinogens

Remember that this isn't one study, a casual link or an arbitrary decision. The World Heath Organisation are sufficiently sure of this link to put it in the same category as tobacco. They're careful enough with this classification that despite plenty of studies showing a link between red meat and cancer, and despite the statistical correlation between red meat consumption and cancer rates, they remain wary of yet classifying it as a carcinogen.

In other words they don't take these decisions without good reason. They may be wrong but for now I don't see the reason not to believe them. :shrug:

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Oh whoopee! A one percent increase in risk. A whole load of ho ha about nothing.:rolleyes:

Whilst I'm not suddenly going to stuff my face with processed meat as some of the stuff is simply revolting ( See How it's made.) The increase in risk is swamped in the statistical noise IMHO.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I think that the stats needs to be put into perspective. Doubling a risk, say, might sound like a big deal but if that means if the odds go from 1:1000000 to 1:500000 it's really not such a big deal is it.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Even smaller...

From Twitter

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I'm sure the researchers have to justify the money spent on such a project by getting a "correct" result.

I wonder what the proportion of researchers were veggies or vegans?

It is well known that if a research team sets out to find if X influences Y then that's what they will find.:rolleyes:

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

If this were the case then the WHO would be finding a lot more things that cause cancer. As I mentioned above there are a lot of things which are generally assumed to be linked to higher risks of cancer that they are still refraining from listing as carcinogenic as they're unsure. As it happens relatively few things are labelled as a category 1 carcinogenic.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I'd rather take my chances with red/processed meat every day than smoke.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Yup me too. I will still eat processed meat too. Bacon, Sausages, Ham. I am not going to stop eating them but now we know more about any possible heath effects from it and can decide for ourselves.

This kind of information would be especially useful for people with a family history of these cancers who may decide to cut it off entirely as they already have an increased risk. The actual study might go into more depth on that.

I don't see the harm in people knowing more about the food we eat and the resistance today to the announcement as if the WHO have decided to do this just to spite bacon lovers.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

The problem is that we're constantly being told one thing only to have that advice changed a few years down the line. Even now you can always find persuasive evidence to support both sides of any argument so who do we believe?

As Den said above, the simplest and most sensible general approach is to have a reasonably balanced diet with everything in moderation. There's not much money in purveying such simple advice however...

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Well as mentioned this is a significant measure for the WHO to take. It's not another one of those Daily Express headlines where they have taken the results of an inconclusive study and misrepresented it.

Generally I would trust the World Heath Organisation and the NHS over newspapers or industry spokesmen. The NHS also do this site which explains what is going on behind the headlines and it's usually more measured than the papers suggest (i.e not everything gives you cancer and miracle diets don't work): http://www.nhs.uk/news/pages/newsindex.aspx

This is usually the advice people would give though, including the WHO. I mean even here they're not saying cut out processed meat altogether.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6646012

https://peerj.com/preprints/587/

Hold your breath or live up a mountain?

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

How is Bacon " processed "?

It's thinly sliced ham.

How does thinly slicing meat, make it more carcinogenic?

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

@ Damien - Yes but, as we know, not everyone out there is quite as discerning as you in their choice of reading matter. ;) IMHO studies like this are pointless when it comes to the majority of people and will do nothing to alter their eating habits. If anything, the plethora of conflicting official advice we've seen over the years has resulted in many people now dismissing it all on the basis that "they'll probably tell us the opposite next year..."

All that'll happen as a result of this is that a raft of celebrity 'nutrition experts' will jump on the bandwagon producing books, DVDs, diets and detox products/programmes they can flog to those who've bought into the scary headline news as they do every time something or other is highlighted as a potential health risk.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

You're just linking to random studies. The oxygen one is from 1983(!) and was cited only once in 1988. I don't think that's gone anywhere.
That's not the same thing as a collection of peer reviewed work which all points in the same direction. It's not at all the same thing as what has happened today. :confused:

They're treated with nitrates to increase it's shelf-life. Also depending on the type of meat there are other additives too.

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------

This isn't really just a study though it's a combination of work that has got this far. The debate over processed meats has been going a long, long time.

I agree with you that it's hard for us to work out what is right which is why I typically don't bother reading the newspapers' reports on these things and follow medical advice from the likes of the NHS. I don't have the scientific knowledge to work out what is valid and what isn't so I will just go with whatever is the dietary/medical consensus. I could attempt to research myself but I don't understand the underlying science, the articles are too long and third party information on the internet is woeful and largely populated by quacks.

Well I wouldn't say they're pointless. They will help inform medical advice and we have learned something new, which is the point of these people in the first place, and from what we may learn more still.

That said nothing will change because avoiding processed meats has been the advice for a while now. As I said above this link has long been suspected and the official designation of it is more symbolic than revelatory. I don't think anyone is surprised by this just as they won't be surprised if and when red meat is upgraded.

Well yes, people will always abuse things unfortunately.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

They're focussing more on bacon.

can you see where we're going with this. wanting us to stop eating bacon?

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Or.....

Giving people information so they can make informed decisions.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Maybe they think that if they scare enough people into thinking that after all these years the highly controversial bacon that upsets so many people actually can kill you. then we'll all stop eating it.

and then we're happy. they're happy. and the people who want to take over the world can cross it off their 'To Do' list.

or maybe we'll eat bacon more and more and have bacon parties!

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

well based on this information it looks like lorry drivers and builders are a dying breed ,and lets not even think of devastating effect on taxi drivers .

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I reckon those people can make a "No win no fee" claim.
these food people should have known about this a long time ago. they haven't suddenly gone to work and said I'm bored. I'll put some of my bacon into a test tube! and then called all the other "experts" and said "You'll never guess what I found out about my bacon!"
and then they all agreed with him.
what have they been doing all these years while they've been waiting for him to get more bored than usual?

they should have put that bacon in a test tube years ago!

that's why I don't believe it.
it's just scaremongering again.
hoping that we stop eating bacon to please the non bacon eaters.

and the usual look busy or you're out of a job.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

This.

I'm pretty disappointed to see the WHO going all Daily Mail with their Could Cause Cancer statistics.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

It's just this ridiculous shock horror "discovery" that turns out to be a possible minute change of risk that just makes me very dismissive of ANY of these results and organisations.:rolleyes:

Especially when the next result is the exact opposite of the previous. Just eat a healthy balanced diet with not too many calories and junk and tell the experts to get lost.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

The WHO didn't, the newspapers interpretation their decision to upgrade processed meat to category 1 did.

The WHO have a traditionally dry and boring press release: http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/p...fs/pr240_E.pdf

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Not to mention the fact that these sorts of studies are often conducted in isolation and rarely consider the knock-on effect of cutting out certain foods, and whether that effect might be more damaging than the risk they are trying to mitigate.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

This wasn't one study, it's a combination of several studies over many years which have in turn been analysed by the WHO over several years. They are aware of the problems with correlation being confused with causation. Look at red meat which most studies suggest has have a link with cancer but the WHO are still wary of classing it was a carcinogen. We're not dealing with a crackpot organisation here or a knee-jerk reaction to one study.

I ask again that if now the WHO are a discredited organisation who we can't take seriously then what else is left?

It's not a 'discovery'. This isn't telling us anything that new. Also the main detail from the report isn't the minor change in risk but the fact that risk is now considered proven thereby classing processed meat as a carcinogen. The list is a ranking of how carcinogenic is but simply if it is carcinogenic at all.

The end result is people can more more informed decisions about their diet. Especially those at high risk of the mentioned cancers.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Personally the credibility of the world health organisation has been iffy since they decided electronic cigarettes were more dangerous then normal cigarettes a claim that has been thoroughly junked. They are little more then a mouthpiece for whoever pays them enough these days and anyone putting too much faith in them is going to live a life scared and very bland food wise. My grandfather who eats a bacon or sausage sandwich every morning and has done since he was a child immediately put the pan on after hearing this and had both in one sandwich there's no stopping his reckless abandonment even at 94.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I can't find that anywhere. All I can find is a report where they cautioned against calling them 'safe' until more research is done and to avoid them being used indoors and for children.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalis...anisation.html

They seem simply to be saying that they don't know about the health effects and people should await further evidence.

They're largely funded by Governments with some money coming from NGOs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...d_partnerships

And people who have smoked several packs a day have lived to over 100 whereas some people who never touched a cigarette in their life have died of lung cancer at an early age.

The risk of any one person contracting cancer because of processed meat is very low when you look at the statistics. All the WHO are saying is that there is a risk, albeit minor. This only becomes clear with a larger set of people.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Wonder if there is a difference between the nasty cheap water injected, smoke flavoured stuff and a decent dry cured, properly cold smoked joint, carved into nice thick slices.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Lidls are selling Biltong for 99p/pack. Just ate a pack. Very tasty :tu: :)

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

I suspect that there is.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

WHO's International Agency for Research on Cancer

Carcinogenic to humans - those that definitely cause cancer.

1. Tobacco smoking

2. Sunlamps and sunbeds

3. Aluminium production

4. Arsenic in drinking water

5. Auramine production

6. Boot and shoe manufacture and repair

7. Chimney sweeping

8. Coal gasification

9. Coal tar distillation

10. Coke (fuel) production

11. Furniture and cabinet making

12. Haematite mining (underground) with exposure to radon

13. Secondhand smoke

14. Iron and steel founding

15. Isopropanol manufacture (strong-acid process)

16. Magenta dye manufacturing

17. Occupational exposure as a painter

18. Paving and roofing with coal-tar pitch

19. Rubber industry

20. Occupational exposure of strong inorganic acid mists containing sulphuric acid

21. Naturally occurring mixtures of aflatoxins (produced by funghi)

22. Alcoholic beverages

23. Areca nut - often chewed with betel leaf

24. Betel quid without tobacco

25. Betel quid with tobacco

26. Coal tar pitches

27. Coal tars

28. Indoor emissions from household combustion of coal

29. Diesel exhaust

30. Mineral oils, untreated and mildly treated

31. Phenacetin, a pain and fever reducing drug

32. Plants containing aristolochic acid (used in Chinese herbal medicine)

33. Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) - widely used in electrical equipment in the past, banned in many countries in the 1970s

34. Chinese-style salted fish

35. Shale oils

36. Soots

37. Smokeless tobacco products

38. Wood dust

39. Processed meat

40. Acetaldehyde

41. 4-Aminobiphenyl

42. Aristolochic acids and plants containing them

43. Asbestos

44. Arsenic and arsenic compounds

45. Azathioprine

46. Benzene

47. Benzidine

48. Benzo[a]pyrene

49. Beryllium and beryllium compounds

50. Chlornapazine (N,N-Bis(2-chloroethyl)-2-naphthylamine)

51. Bis(chloromethyl)ether

52. Chloromethyl methyl ether

53. 1,3-Butadiene

54. 1,4-Butanediol dimethanesulfonate (Busulphan, Myleran)

55. Cadmium and cadmium compounds

56. Chlorambucil

57. Methyl-CCNU (1-(2-Chloroethyl)-3-(4-methylcyclohexyl)-1-nitrosourea; Semustine)

58. Chromium(VI) compounds

59. Ciclosporin

60. Contraceptives, hormonal, combined forms (those containing both oestrogen and a progestogen)

61. Contraceptives, oral, sequential forms of hormonal contraception (a period of oestrogen-only followed by a period of both oestrogen and a progestogen)

62. Cyclophosphamide

63. Diethylstilboestrol

64. Dyes metabolized to benzidine

65. Epstein-Barr virus

66. Oestrogens, nonsteroidal

67. Oestrogens, steroidal

68. Oestrogen therapy, postmenopausal

69. Ethanol in alcoholic beverages

70. Erionite

71. Ethylene oxide

72. Etoposide alone and in combination with cisplatin and bleomycin

73. Formaldehyde

74. Gallium arsenide

75. Helicobacter pylori (infection with)

76. Hepatitis B virus (chronic infection with)

77. Hepatitis C virus (chronic infection with)

78. Herbal remedies containing plant species of the genus Aristolochia

79. Human immunodeficiency virus type 1 (infection with)

80. Human papillomavirus type 16, 18, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59 and 66

81. Human T-cell lymphotropic virus type-I

82. Melphalan

83. Methoxsalen (8-Methoxypsoralen) plus ultraviolet A-radiation

84. 4,4'-methylene-bis(2-chloroaniline) (MOCA)

85. MOPP and other combined chemotherapy including alkylating agents

86. Mustard gas (sulphur mustard)

87. 2-Naphthylamine

88. Neutron radiation

89. Nickel compounds

90. 4-(N-Nitrosomethylamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone (NNK)

91. N-Nitrosonornicotine (NNN)

92. Opisthorchis viverrini (infection with)

93. Outdoor air pollution

94. Particulate matter in outdoor air pollution

95. Phosphorus-32, as phosphate

96. Plutonium-239 and its decay products (may contain plutonium-240 and other isotopes), as aerosols

97. Radioiodines, short-lived isotopes, including iodine-131, from atomic reactor accidents and nuclear weapons detonation (exposure during childhood)

98. Radionuclides, α-particle-emitting, internally deposited

99. Radionuclides, β-particle-emitting, internally deposited

100. Radium-224 and its decay products

101. Radium-226 and its decay products

102. Radium-228 and its decay products

103. Radon-222 and its decay products

104. Schistosoma haematobium (infection with)

105. Silica, crystalline (inhaled in the form of quartz or cristobalite from occupational sources)

106. Solar radiation

107. Talc containing asbestiform fibres

108. Tamoxifen

109. 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin

110. Thiotepa (1,1',1'-phosphinothioylidynetrisaziridine)

111. Thorium-232 and its decay products, administered intravenously as a colloidal dispersion of thorium-232 dioxide

112. Treosulfan

113. Ortho-toluidine

114. Vinyl chloride

115. Ultraviolet radiation

116. X-radiation and gamma radiation

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Whereas, for a list of all those things that Could Cause Cancer, see the Daily Mail. :D

http://dailymailoncology.tumblr.com/

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Did you know that's more risky than a game of dominoes? :D

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Heard last evening from a passerby talking on his mobile...

"It's not meat that causes cancer, it's the chemicals they treat it with".

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

That's why they assume it is, kinda. Not in the case of Red meat though.

This is a good breakdown of the story free from the media's spin: http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk....-need-to-know/

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I must be in my wife's good books.

I've been having extra bacon and sausages for my breakfast every morning.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

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Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Yes, me too. My missus seems to think I should eat lots more butter and cheese... :D

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Finding out what the causes are often leads to cures, or helps prevention, and prevention is always better than a cure.....:)

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Plus I am pretty sure they have thought about trying to cure cancer, i think it's pretty hard. Someone should tell the guy in the picture that alcohol can cause cancer though. Also memes.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Though I'd bump this thread as new research reveals:

Another unnecessary food scare built on thin evidence. What a surprise. :rolleyes:

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

A lot of these food scares are exaggerated IMO as l little bit of everything in moderation hurts nobody.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49877237

Let's scale that up -

In the UK, there are 37 million people aged between 18 and 59 (let's say these are most at risk), there would be
- a lifetime, there would be 259,000 fewer deaths from cancer
- 11 years, there would be 148,000 fewer deaths from heart disease

And if every week for 11 years, 37,000,000 people cut out three portions of:
- red meat, there would be 222,000 fewer cases of type 2 diabetes
- processed meat, there would be 444,000 fewer cases of type 2 diabetes

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Fake news, now doubt promoted heavily by the vegan brigade. I have been ignoring the advice of these people on which foods are bad for you for a long time, now. My low carb diet is varied and keeps me pretty well, even with the reasonable quantity of meat I have as part of it.

I will never forgive them for advising against eating butter. I have had to put up with using Flora for many years as a result of that. I use my own judgement these days and give all these pronouncements the common sense test.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Always look to whom has been paying for these studies and research.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Well l am neither for the vegan brigade or the meat brigade ;) as l have to have a soft food diet which pretty much rules out a awful lot of those foods unless its a soup so no one can accuse me of being biased ;).

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

..... which is why the official government advice isn’t changing. The difference to the individual is small, but at the population level is statistically significant and of a scale that has resource implications.

FWIW, almost everyone who stays at my B&B has bacon for breakfast.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

woo hoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL_lS_FsMvk

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

It’s also worth noting this is one study. You shouldn’t pick and choose which you believe in accordance with what you want to believe. Public Heath England and the World Health Organisation list it as a grade one carcinogen, which isn’t actually contradicted by this new study.

Nothing has been debunked. The evidence has not changed and wasn’t ‘paper thin’. Instead this one study has a different outlook on the overall impact.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

I am sure when cigarette smoking was a mass market product in the 1920's and 1930's, they applied their own judgement and applied the common sense test as well.

https://www.history.com/.image/c_lim...hiteshirt.webp

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Small datasets can't be extrapolated that way. Eg 7 in 1,000 could easily actually mean 4,000 in 1,000,000 or 10,000 in 1,000,000. If you throw a pair of dice 36 times, double 6 could appear more than once or not at all.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

That would be true if they'd only sampled 1000 people, but actually the 7 in 1000 figure is downscaled from a sample size of hundreds of thousands. So scaling back up is statistically valid.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

The studies they reviewed had such a wide range of results, that the results were deemed a low certainty of being valid.
Original report
A finding of 1 in 1,000 and another of 12 in 1,000, demonstrate the original studies can't be relied upon.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

As always all that's required is enough to place doubt on the original studies for industry to muddy the water and claim everything is fine.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Always worth looking at the source info, not the media headlines...

Amongst the reviews were -
12 unique trials enrolling 54,000 participants
23 cohort studies with 1.4 million participants
17 cohorts with 2.2 million participants
70 cohort studies with just over 6 million participants
10 cohort studies with 778,000 participants
31 cohorts with 3.5 million participants

https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2...endations-from

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

Except that the 'common sense' question would have been (at least for me): "What the hell does all this smoke do to my lungs?". That is the very question I asked myself when I was young and encouraged by my peers to have a smoke.

The application of common sense generally gives you the right answer.

Re: Processed meats do cause cancer
 

So much of the history of science has been correcting our natural assumptions about the world.

The history of medicine for example: The germ theory of disease was not common sense, the idea diseases could be spread by microscopic germs we couldn't see. Common sense suggested it was bad air. It made sense, it would explain why it spread close to people and it explained the smells they were subjected too.

It was common sense that the Sun revolved around the Earth as, from our perspective, it seemed to do so. Even the earth being flat made sense.

The best example is physics where hardly anything makes any logical sense to us natively. Relativity is a mad concept. Try and wrap your head around time and space being the same thing! :D

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Also if smoking causing lung cancer was such common sense it wouldn't have been so popular and there would have been less resistance to the idea when it came.