dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Almost 2,400 people declared 'fit to work' and taken off benefits in a controversial government crackdown were dead within TWO WEEKS

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3k1ysg0UV
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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...nt-dwp-figures

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10475017.html

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

All i can say is shocking!!!

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

"The Department for Work and Pensions battled for months not to release the numbers, with Mr Duncan Smith at one point telling Parliament they did not exist."

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

He needs to resign!

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Iain Duncan Smith should resign over disability benefit death figures, says Jeremy Corbyn

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10475017.html

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

And Over 75,000+ people sign petition demanding Iain Duncan Smith resigns over fake job centre sanction quotes.

He won't resign, he's too gutless. He should be sacked without the opportunity to resign.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

We all know he won't be sacked! :(

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

I am not shocked to be honest. Despite being told I only said it to get sympathy - I really do not know what I'd do if I get on the wrong side of one of these assessments.

I also don't see him resigning (although I'd be happy to be proved wrong) as I'm sure he's succeeding in the what he's trying to do (in the govt's eyes).

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Nothing will change as one fears things will get much worse before it ever gets better.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Hasn't IDS been made a lord?

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

That depends on how much of a burden I become Kursk.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

No that's probably William Hague you are thinking of.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Be fair, another 1,600 did last 4 more weeks.

It's really not great, is it?

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Apologies, I deleted the post as it seemed, although not intended, too personal when I read it again.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

I didn't take it that way - all I'll say is that when I've been in the situation (with regards assessments etc) I've had some pretty dark thoughts and I'm not going to make my family have to stump up to support me. I'll leave it at that.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Doesn't anyone actually read the reports?:mad::mad::mad:

The 2 weeks refers to the "scan" cycle. They look at the status in 2 weekly periods. At the start of the period they are receiving ESA and by the start of the next 2 week period they are not because they have died. In between those two dates, a "fit for work" decision has been made. That decision could have been made BEFORE they died, therefore any adverse decision COULDN'T have any effect. Even where they died after the decision was made, they may have yet to receive the letter telling them, again it COULDN'T have any effect. They ARE NOT claiming JSA and having to look for work at that stage.

ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE do the reports say the number of people that were claiming JSA and having to look for work at the time of death, but were found "fit for work" a few months earlier. Isn't that the sort of thing that people are looking for?

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Presumably a large proportion of these 2380 people who died did so shortly after eating biscuits. Or humming along to a tune on the radio.

Where's the control group? How likely was an otherwise identical person (in terms of health, disability, income etc) who wasn't 'flowed off' ESA to die? If there is a correlation, how do you know that's causation and not co-incidence, or a random peak in the stats, or if there's some other factor interacting with both?

I despise IDS and his 'reforms' but this is junk churnalism at its worst.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

What cookie said. This data is rather meaningless without knowing more. People do die, that's what we all will do after all, and without meaning to be cruel we're looking at a group who are often in poor health.

Maybe if we compared it against previous data for people on these benefits and see what the numbers are before the reforms then we'll have a better idea. Realistically we should expect a minor drop between that data and what we have now (as medical science is improving - as is life expectancy).

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

7,540 died while being in the assessment phase and before a decision has been made. How can the DWP and ATOS be blamed for those?

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Death has become a part of Britain’s benefits system
More than 80 people a month are now dying after being declared ‘fit for work’. The safety net that used to be there for the most vulnerable is being torn to shreds

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ork-safety-net

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Now you know better than to ask just the most basic of questions.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

As much as I hate ids this story is just a journo trying to manipulate statistics with no control

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

This is part of the reason ATOS has lost the contract. At one point 73% of decisions made by ATOS which were appealed got changed.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

They were still receiving ESA at the time of death. They were not claiming JSA and having to look for work etc.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

that's a high percentage but i suppose they just gave the government what it payed for ,the stress on these vulnerable people must have been terrible .

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

I never said they were claiming benefit, i simply stated percentage of over turned appeals from others.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Might be interesting to know how many people never bothered to appeal as they were caught swinging the lead. Wouldn't be good to think all these people have suffered in vain.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

i wonder what the dead to swindler ratio is 10:1- 20:1-100:1

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Wasn't actually talking about the dead but the 73% in Alan's post, it's why I quoted him after all

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

The UN is to visit the UK to investigate whether Iain Duncan Smith’s welfare reforms have caused “grave or systematic violations” of disabled peoples’ human rights, it has been reported.

A leading disability charity says that they have been contacted by the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities as part of an investigation into human rights abuses against disabled people in the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10478536.html

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Do you have a link for that, please?

All I can find is a figure of 40%.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

Both parties are to blame here, whilst the tories are going full throttle with benefit cuts, the one statistic that stands out is they allowing more people into the support group in the 5 years between 2010 and 2015 is a pretty big increase in people in the support group.

Given Labour introduced ESA and have never said they will do something to allow more people onto it, they are like a lion without teeth.

IDS has also claimed and still does I think there is no targets to find a specific amount of people fit for work.

My view is they need to do something like this.

Remove the WRAG group. (work related activity group), as a seperate part of ESA. So ESA claimants are only claiming for the support group, loosen up the criteria for the support group, e.g. pretending people have a wheelchair when they dont, and especially when a medical professional has told them to not use a wheelchair is just not on, but they do this.
If someone claims for JSA and is told they too ill to work, they then should be put in the WRAG group and make that an element of JSA, meaning there is no people who are not ill enough for ESA but also not fit enough for JSA.

Reduce hours for the work programme so they only add up to the amount of hours needed to earn JSA money at the min wage,

Dont put people on the work programme who are already doing their own work training/apprenticeship or voluntary work.

I think the most important thing is the NHS needs to work with the DWP, there is people who have got nowhere with the NHS in regards to treatment or a diagnosis and are left on ESA for years as a result. These 2 departments dont work together. The NHS even charges the DWP for evidence it sends.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

on panaroma a guy even said he was winning over 80% of cases.

I dont know the exact figures now (did before), but 40% does seem a low number I am pretty sure it was well over half of decisions been overturned.

The DWP then asked ATOS to do higher quality reports to help them win more appeals and that was the start of the ATOS and DWP falling out with each other. ATOS have now no longer got the contract and maximus has took over.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

One thing that would help is to stop people peddling myths.
Official WCA guidance on Wheelchair use and other aids and appliances.
That applies to ALL aids. Eg If you ask your GP about a wheelchair and the GP says no, then that is the end of it.

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

and what if the patient wants a second opinion ? GP's make mistakes .

Re: dead within TWO WEEKS
 

if only they followed those guidelines. Before you accuse me of peddling myths I am aware of those guidelines, and they have had to be used in so many appeals I have lost count, countless assessments people are been assumed to have a wheelchair even when they tell the assessor they have been told not to use one.

Then we have the situation where people have not been told to not use a wheelchair but also havent been told to use one and as such dont have one. The only time someone should be assessed in a wheelchair is if they actually have a wheelchair to use as specifically directed by a doctor.