Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...expansion.html

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

This is long overdue and I'm shocked Virgin has taken this long to do it. They arguably have the best technology to facilitate this.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

There better be a way to disable wifi sharing. If it is true about a speed boost then i maybe happy to do this as i live in a rural area so it is unlikely to get used.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

If they implement it in a similar way to BT's wifi sharing service, then you will find only a modest portion of your overall bandwidth is used by someone connected to your pubic hotspot, and if you are maxing out your own connection, the public hotspot will decline connections from other users.

The benefits of having access to free wifi in loads of places you don't normally get it far outweigh the small cost of occasionally sharing a slice of your home bandwidth IMO.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I noticed when connecting to my own router via BT Wifi and running a speed test it allowed me around 20 mbps of my 76 mbps available.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

It would be interesting to see how much it gave you if you had another device using your private wifi at the same time, or if you could discover at what point your use of your private connection becomes heavy enough for the BTWiFi hotspot to kick you off, or refuse to connect you.

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My neighbour's BT WiFi hotspot has been a lifeline this summer. We have had persistent problems with our own phone line that have gone on for months. It has been stable a couple of weeks now, but prior to that we had barely any use out of our Internet for almost a month, and it was very up and down for a couple of months prior to that.

No, on balance I think having access to these sorts of free wifi hotspots is a far greater benefit than any potential cost in terms of lost home bandwidth.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Well there will definitely be a speed boost because l have just got a email saying its coming.

http://store.virginmedia.com/special...d-upgrade.html

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I wonder if this will work while in modem mode? I'd like to be able to use wifi when I'm out and about (and don't mind sharing some of my own) but I'm quite happy to keep using the router I have.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I dont get it, how will Vm know I am with them when walking past a cabinet or someone elses wifi.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Ah right cheers. No good to me then I`m not on virgin mobile. Everything else but not virgin mobile

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I'd assume they would update the app to work for broadband customers once they are actually offering the service.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Questions were asked and answered here

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...ng-thames.html

Good to hear cabs are getting an upgrade

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I understand this is part of a wide ranging update of VM services. If the techie I spoke to was correct then phone lines will be totally replaced by voice over the broadband network.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I think "totally replaced" is a stretch but certainly I can see a focus on them.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

The WiFi service will not use the customer's bandwidth, it will have its own.

The tier uplift isn't related to the WiFi service.

I must ask some questions about this tier uplift. I understood it would come with 'conditions'.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

As long as the "conditions" don't include STM or worse :(

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Indeedy.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

"Conditions" Sounds exactly like STM...

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I may have missed it as on mobile but what speeds are tiers going upto?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

l don't know yet as it just says speed upgrades are coming but some of the other lads might have a better idea of what speeds might go up SnoopZ.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Yup, at the bottom of the vm blurb is:

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

The current London Underground setup doesn't require a mobile SIM. It is also available to VM broadband customers.
Link
The Wi-Fi Buddy app isn't just for VM mobile. Eg it works on my Hudl2 tablet. With it at home, I can see another VM broadband customer, a Sky customer and a BT WiFI with FON setup all within range.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

On BT, you can't generate a BT Wifi or a BT-With-FON hotspot unless you are using a BT HomeHub. Having said that, if you opt in to the service, and then use a third party modem/router that doesn't generate a public hotspot, they don't detect this and you don't lose the ability to use hotspots while out and about.

None of which directly answers your question, but if I was speculating, I would say that some pretty specific settings would be required in order to generate a different hotspot and route it differently, and that VM would almost certainly insist on delivering all that via the Superhub.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I think VM support wish one of the conditions would be for all customers to sign the following waiver:

"I hereby understand that although headline speeds will be increased, it is not possible for a 2.4ghz, 802.11n 1x1 stream wifi card on a mobile device to receive 300mbps, ever"

It's bad enough to see people complaining all the time that they can't get 152mbps on hardware that is never going to be capable, I hate to see it when people on even some higher end equipment moan when a 300mbps link speed doesn't get that in reality.

Of course, for the Wi-Fi service itself, I imagine it'll be capped at a level not exceeding 30mbps, probably.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Honestly, tiers like 300Mbit are not really intended for single-user use anyway.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I hope use of the hotspot facility will be restricted to VM broadband customers only and not include VM mobile. Otherwise a neighbour could be with VM mobile and not broadband but still have access to broadband via somebody else's(eg my) Wifi. They wouldn't need to bother with paying for their own VM BB.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Absolutely agree.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I don't particularly care who it's restricted to or not, that's Virgin's business, as long as it doesn't impact my own connection.

I'd say the wifi speeds will be limited to a couple of Mbit anyway.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Given the OP says VM will be using their own street cabinets, it's nothing like BT's service and doesn't share any of your bandwidth at all.

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The general user would be more like "I hereby do not understand anything you just said but I will click Agree because I WANT MOAR SPEED"

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I've just had an email saying it's coming to my area and a link to this.

http://store.virginmedia.com/discove...i-sharing.html

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

It's both street cabs and superhubs.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Given that you have clearly only read half the OP, I think you're somewhat wide of the mark.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Oh my god, does this mean that qas was......wrong...about something?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/08/5.gif

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

From what I can work out there is an implicit recognition that the hotspot within your Superhub has the potential to reduce your bandwidth when someone logs on to it. The speed upgrades are a trade off. Mind you our street has a residents-only parking scheme weekdays and Saturdays until 6:00 pm. Not many folk are going to be logging onto my superhub for any length of time!

How will it work in modem only mode? I don't know the Superhub architecture at all, but I am assuming that the trick is in the firmware upgrade which will be able to switch on WiFi just for the purposes of providing a hotspot, but will not switch on a private WiFi network if you don't want one.

I also note that if you don't want to participate in the network you can opt out. I doubt if this will affect your entitlement to the speed upgrade.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Theres no way a bandwidth trade off will occur on the customers SH itself. Stressing the SH is something else but available or set bandwidth wise if anything it will be traded off VM networks side.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

There won't be a sacrifice of bandwidth, however there will be a sacrifice in wireless performance if you're using the superhub as a router.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

By trade off I meant that VM is offering speed upgrades to sweeten the use of your SH to create a hotpot.

If someone chooses to stand outside my house downloading shed loads it will affect was is available to me unless, as you say, VM design the software so use is made of bandwidth available in the common coax. However, if that is the case why , are VM talking about the speed upgrade and the WiFi network in the same breath?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Because they want to go big. And why not. The two upgrades to the network should not be interlinked as The Telegraph suggests. Confusing or scaremongering consumers as that piece has done to you will only be a hindrance to a massive operation.

that is misleading if you believe your set tier will be eaten into by the hotspots. what will be eaten into is your local VM network, local capacity but that will be eaten by people who pay for VM services unless username and passwords are shared willy nilly!

The speed upgrade is purely to keep in line with demand. Faster speeds are the way forward. Streaming and all is extremely popular.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Virgin mobile customers are also included. I live in an area with a lot of flats around. Several neighbours could have a mobile broadband dongle for just £5.12/month and use my WiFi and Broadband connection that I pay a lot more for. Passers by and short term light use is one thing but the potential for longer term heavy usage is another.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

BT have the same allowances although BTs hotspots are capped. We're are all talking either customer tier or unlimited bandwidth available for the hotspot which is just not true. The question is how much bandwidth will be allocated to each connection to a VM hotspot?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I foresee gangs of teenagers hanging around wi-fi enabled cabinets, could be a new social phenomenon?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

will legal action be taken if a local resident installs an anti-loitering device :LOL:

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

For instance, a large dog.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Half a dozen people each with 5Mb, is going to add up. In peak times what will that do to a 30Mb or less capacity?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

How about the Wifi bandwidth? They will use part of the customer's wifi bandwidth no? The same antenna but on a guest network with a separate WAN channel. One way or another it will take portion of the customer'swifi bandwidh no?

Not, that I am concern, just curious.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

That would be entirely stress on the SH.

Will main users of the SHs have priority over the hotspots, what will load balancing look like?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

When somebody,eg me, is at times only getting 30mb from a 152Mb connection, others adding to that isn't going to help.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

In what way? This service won't use the customer's bandwidth, it'll have its own service flow completely separate.

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Absolutely. That's unavoidable.

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No. Both will be best effort service flows.

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

Nothing. As I said more than once it won't take capacity from the customer whose Superhub it is, but run on its own separate bandwidth.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

ouch! overutilisation, loading balancing needs to be kept on top of then.

This is huge investment so better days ahead..

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

More downstream channels in the bonded group help even if it's not new capacity.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Will all the SH models have the ability to have the same amount of bonded channels?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

No, current devices can only bond 8 downstream channels. That cannot be fixed in software. Future hubs will have significantly more bonded channels though.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I see that I am not the only one flip flopping between and combining the WiFi and speed upgrade stories.

Indeed the success of the VM residential hotspots, even with support from the ISP-side network, may well depend upon the speed upgrade. Outside a typical residence it is likely that a hotspot user may get less than 10% of available download speed. ( I get 10Mb download in the middle of the road outside my house logged onto either my Asus or FON router. (My connection is 152Mb) With a 300Mb connection the connection looks usable. Frankly with connections of 80Mb or less, as with BT, hotspots are virtually useless. With my roaming rights, through having a FON hotspot router, I can access BT Fon, but very rarely find anything good enough to actually download files. Browsing and streaming is sometimes possible.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Incorrectly combining the two, or wrong wording the deployment which inturn is scaremongering! There should be no strategy to push through 'share your capacity'. To an average joe I'd expect them to believe its 'use their set bandwidth allowance' which is totally incorrect. If The Telegraph meant stressing the SH and/or overall network capacity then fine but then they should better word what is actually going on and even then be specific so nobody gets to thinking the SH will start falling over again!

Theres demand for higher speeds as it is. VM could have upgraded capacity, balancing and all while keeping speeds as they are. Theres no need to sweeten wifi hotspots by a boost in speed.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

So will we have access to the router side of this wifi hotspot once it's enabled so we can see what is happening and how will they be able to split the bandwidth from the same cable coming into the house?

I have my own router so I'm guessing VM will be making these obsolete eventually?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

No. For a plethora of reasons. Just no.

Unlike BT/ADSL, Virgin can increase the speed going to your device at the drop of a hat. The top tier is 152Mbit because that's an arbitrary number Virgin plucked out. They can easily provision that to be 200Mbit and give you 152 while giving the separate wifi 48Mbit. However, it's not even as simple as that, you'll get your full provisioned bandwidth and the separate hotspot will get its own bandwidth. How much bandwidth that is remains to be seen, but it won't be a case of hotspots causing you to loose speed, people can be hammering that but your 152mbit (or whatever) will be safe.

It also makes absolutely no sense for Virgin to provision the hotspot based on what tier you're on.

Also think of it this way - your TV and your broadband share that same cable. Even if you have a second STB, it's one cable going to your house that splits off. The TiVo box has a separate modem in it, yet it doesn't affect your broadband despite being on the same cable.

Not necessarily and not likely.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Yeah VM wont want to give people reason to move to other fibre. The choice to use your own choice of router remains in place. Plus pee'ing off the router manufacturers? Not a good idea even if they have a relationship with Netgear.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

(Hot) Spot on. In Queen Mary Uni, students were sharing a file of BT passwords/usernames. living in a dense flat population at the East End , BT wifi connections were abused.... One student gave his password to his mate and then the mate gave it to another mate....

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

This isn't something to bother concerning yourself with. Your connection will be separated off. It's not in Virgin's interests to encourage people to leave them and pay less, anyway.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

How much bandwidth will be allocated to each wifi hotspot hub or connection to hotspot?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

As a non Virgin mobile user, would I still be able to benefit out and about?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

If you have VM broadband then you get to use the wifi hotspots.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Ah

---------- Post added at 01:13 ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 ----------

Ah



---------- Post added at 01:12 ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 ----------

Is this a thing now? Am I not allowed to be wrong? Or am I just so good at covering up when I'm wrong that you actually think it's a rare occurrence?

---------- Post added at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 ----------

They use your router's WiFi, yes, but they do not use your broadband connection.

---------- Post added at 01:20 ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 ----------

No. You don't see gangs of teenagers hanging around WiFi-enabled park benches, phone booths, or bus stops do you?4

If anything, teenagers tend to hang around areas with USB ports. I regularly see lines of teenagers sitting against the wall in a bus station with their phone chargers plugged in. There are even pubs equipping USB sockets on their tables now to entice teenagers in.

---------- Post added at 01:25 ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 ----------

There is nowhere on VM's network that only has "30Mb or less capacity"

---------- Post added at 01:27 ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 ----------

Actually it's avoidable, though not with current hardware. This would be a perfect use case for those "AC3200" routers (dual-band tri/quad-radio)

---------- Post added at 01:31 ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 ----------

What everyone seems to be missing (or making up the opposite) is that there isn't going to be any real change in overall network utilisation hence no real impact on overall network capacity.

All you are doing is, if anything, relocating the same load. Nationwide internet usage isn't magically going to go up the instant some free WiFi hotspots are available. Most heavy users already have their own connections, not to mention this service is only free to people who already have their own VM connections. Any traffic they send over a guest WiFi hotspot is traffic not being sent over their own home connection.

---------- Post added at 01:33 ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 ----------

The same way they split the same cable coming into the cabinet into dozens of houses.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Would they be able to do it if I didn't have a BB connection? No, so they are using my BB connection. They could be getting unlimited mobile BB for £5/month on the basis that I am paying a lot more for non-mobile BB.

I supposedly have a 152Mb connection and for most of the time I can achieve that. Peak times it is a lot less. Mobile BB could end up being the bottom tier of unlimited BB.


Although these might help mitigate my concerns.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

This is my understanding of the arrangement. VM will not not use YOUR broadband connection for this arrangement. They use your SH router and an additional broadband connection.

The VM coax that enters your house is capable of carrying many modulated signals. It carries your TV signals, your telephone and broadband and can carry extra broadband signals. Your SH similarly can process more than one signal in, ( WAN side), and out, (LAN side). VM plans, through a softaware upgrade, to enable your router to manage your usual broadband signal and WiFi needs whilst using an additional broadband signal and creating an additional WiFi signal for the hot spot.

For example I have had a pure FON router for 10 years now, piggy backed on my main router. This enables me to use FON spots worldwide and BT Fon spots nationwide. It sends out a private signal for me if I want it and a public signal, which folk have to log into. The router has built in capacity to do this. In my case I have chosen to share my single broadband supply because this is my own custom arrangement. As it happens only two people have ever logged into it during those 10 years. In VMs case you get your broadband and a backup channel running alongside that do not compromise each other.

I am told insistently that the speed upgrades have nothing to do with the WiFi development. They neither enable the WiFi development, by providing extra capacity, or act as a sweetener for those who opt to have a hotspot.

Not convinced? Then you have the choice of opting out, but that will mean you won't be able to access VM's WiFi network for calls or broadband.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

It is a rare occurrence, you're clever and know your stuff so it's all the more fun to poke at you when you do (occasionally) get it wrong :P


Hmm, not quite. The telephone does actually come through a separate, standard copper cable. If you look closely at the black cable entering your house from outside, you'll see the two separate cables that eventually split off.

HOWEVER, VoIP is on the horizon and we may even see it with this next hardware trial.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Thanks for putting right my omission, but this does not undermine my main point.

I was aware of the double cable entering my house. Does this double arrangement run all the way back to the street box or node or does the split from a single cable occur at the pavement connection?

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Yes, actually they can, and they will.

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The SH router is VM's property, not the user's. Same goes for VM's cab.

---------- Post added at 11:25 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------

So poking fun at me when I'm wrong is a sport now? I HAVE FEELINGS YOU KNOW, I'M ONLY HUMAN :mad::mad::mad::mad: *sobski*


Not for long!

-May
+Will

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Don't lie! You're a robot (Probably manufactured by Cisco, if you as the General :P).

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

How? If I don't pay for my BB there wouldn't be a shub to piggy back on.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Jeez qasdfdsaq so picky!! Grrrr. You know what I meant. 'YOUR' as in the one installed in YOUR house. Take the anal retention pills quick! lol

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

They are no more using your broadband connection than the person next door.

They are using the Superhub Virgin Media have provided you, which they generally retain ownership of, to access the Virgin Media network. The demarcation point between what's yours and what's Virgin Media's as far as your broadband connection goes is the end of the Ethernet cable connecting to the Superhub, or the WiFi signal, which in the case of the guest network is segmented at the Superhub.

You are connected to the Virgin Media network at about 400Mb, you are capped by the service tier you pay for to 152Mb. The WiFi uses its own 'service' on the same cable. It will not impinge on your service unless the area is congested.

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------

You have a dedicated link to a street-side MSAN. Not dissimilar from how BT deliver FTTC, except in the case of VM it carries telco service only.

---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

The connection any WiFi user has is nothing to do with yours and wouldn't be traced back to you in any event.

They will not have the same public IP address you do.

Any attempt to trace illegal activity on the WiFi would come back to whomever was using it, not the person whose Superhub they were connecting through, that's irrelevant.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

It's not an issue of pickyness. In this case it is actually the core distinction. VM could contractually force you to have the equipment in your house and not allow you to use it, if you had any other VM services. They could run it from their STB, or phone, or anything else. It's in your house, but it's their equipment and they can do whatever they want with it - your only choice would be to cancel all VM services.

Not much different to cable TV. If you have cable TV, your TV box also gets its own internet connection to VM's network. You don't pay for it, you can't use it, you can't control it, you can't cancel it, even if you cancel your broadband. To get the service you want, you are forced to have the second internet connection that you have no control over. You simply must tolerate that connection in order to receive other VM services you want. Yet you don't hear people complain about their set top box stealing "their" broadband...

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:21 ----------

1) Using their street cabinets

2) They can force you to have a Shub even if you cancel your BB. They don't, but they can. Hell, they could put a micro Superhub to run it from inside your junction box. And you'd have to pay them to remove it.

As Ignition explained, it's nothing to do with your broadband connection.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I'm not with virgin mobile either, but I have the app on my Vodafone mobile, and it works

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

Eureka!! Agreed! Should never have happened. However you do need to remove the pointless comments that deliberately misunderstood the point I was making, for whatever reason.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

That is complete BS.

they cannot force you to put anything thing in your house, plus any/my solicitor would have a field day.

for a start how would the install it, you can refuse entry to your house. plus even if they did install it whose going to pay for the electricity and installation of addition sockets.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I doubt you have a retained solicitor.

They install it along with other equipment needed for any services you are running.

Just as with the CPE you are using, you pay for the electricity and any additional sockets.

Way back when cable operators had amplifiers and splitters mounted on houses. That property may not have needed the equipment to be there to deliver their service but it was there nonetheless.

If you agreed to it as part of your terms and conditions you don't have a leg to stand on.

This argumentative thread has been dead for over a fortnight, gratefully forgotten for the most part. A strange decision to resurrect it.

EDIT: This isn't directed at you but generally Christ on a bike the amount of bitching over this defies belief. UPC deliver this throughout Europe as Wi-Free Horizon. It has been knocking around in the USA and Canada for years that I'm aware of. It hasn't caused the world to end, blown up anyone's house, or murdered their first born.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

I had kinda hoped this spat had died too. I've got better things to do than squabble with people who twist your words so that they can make a point, a point that you already agreed with.

Anyway, this thread has pretty well covered everything. It, or something like it, will be revived when hotspots get rolled out.

Sorry Mod: I will keep quiet now.

Re: Virgin Media signals major Wi-Fi expansion
 

No need for pointless bickering. Closed.