What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I've had cable TV for twenty years now, but I'm seriously considering whether it's time I gave it up, especially with the price rise. So this is my thinking (well, rant really) on the problems the Virgin Media TV service has and what would stop me dumping it.


The package

The XL package just isn't working for me anymore. There are probably now only five premium channels that I regularly watch and all of those are in the £6.99 Now TV entertainment pack. I've always defended bundling in the past as the economics used to work out better for everyone than a la carte pricing. However, Virgin's move to attract sports fans by pushing premium sport into XL makes it a poor deal for people like me who have no interest in sport. HD is also nothing special these days, but XL is still charging extra for it.

There probably are some interesting things I miss on channels other than my usuals, but discoverability scales badly as the number of channels increases and other services make it easier for me to find individual programmes that I might want to watch. Virgin needs a competitive product against Now TV for entertainment channels, even if it's one they only offer to people who want to leave. A tenner a month for 12 popular premium HD entertainment channels plus the usual free-to-air ones could work.


TiVo

I have to be honest that after hearing a lot about its power I was really disappointed when I got the TiVo. The interface is just one big trainwreck, littered with examples of poor user interface practice and poor graphic design. Buttons do different things in different places, there are long menu paths that could be simplified and if you make a mistake it takes a whole load of button presses to fix. Fundamentally the TiVo is a nineties PVR that's been bodged for cable TV with apps and on-demand. It's a classic example of why you should never let hardware engineers get involved in user interfaces. On top of that the hardware is woefully underpowered for what the software requires, leading to the long blank screens, nasty video tearing and audio cutouts.

Probably I would watch more channels if the UI was better and using it to find programmes of interest wasn't so stupidly slow. Suggestions are rarely useful and the bar at the top of the screen is just rubbish. Even as a PVR I find I'm recording less and less. Shows are increasingly likely to go to Netflix or Amazon rather than satellite / cable and as more are available on-demand there are fewer times I find I need to record anything. For Freeview channels my TV has a drive attached for recording and a dynamic EPG that unlike the TiVo gets the recording times right. Virgin need to either get TiVo to do a radical overhaul to bring the interface up to the standards of the competition or they need to dump it for something better.

I've written before on all the issues with the TV Anywhere app and most of those criticisms still stand.


On-demand

When it first started, Virgin's on-demand was ahead of the pack but it hasn't kept up with the competition. Recent films on Virgin are usually more expensive than elsewhere, you can't buy them outright for a few quid more and you can't stream them on all the other devices that are in the average home now. For older films you're paying a few quid for ones that are often included in Amazon Prime or Netflix. The TV on demand section used to have a wider variety of content, but now it seems to be just premium channel catch-up plus a small number of 'boxsets' each month. Increasingly those can be found on Amazon or Netflix at the same time, and at HD or decent SD picture quality rather than the low-bitrate, blocky MPEG2 streams that Virgin deliver many shows in.

Then there's the horrible menu structure brought over from the Liberate boxes - was it really not possible to implement a shim over that to give TiVo users a better experience? Trying to find something of interest is a tortuous experience, made worse by the organisation issues. Some series get their own sub-folder while some have all the episodes at the next level up. Some that start with 'The' are listed under 'T' while others ignore it. Sub-folders for a show don't get descriptions so you have to go inside to work out what they are. Metadata varies wildly - some shows have decent descriptions while others tell you next to nothing and of course there's no attractive image layout. Even looking to see what is new requires working through a ton of menus and a memory for what was there before. So rather than spend 15 minutes playing hunt the wumpus and annoying everyone else sitting in front of the TV it's easier to use another service instead. Virgin need a decent on-demand interface and more content that you can't find on every other service - more British archive TV would be great too and could even be a selling point against the US streaming services.


I really like Virgin broadband, which with the exception of occasional bumps before network upgrades has been consistently fast and stable. Unless there's some big improvements soon I think I've probably reached the end of the line with TV though.

So what would Virgin need to do to stop others cutting the cord?

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Sorry, but 'Workman and tools' spring to mind here. Are you seriously saying that you can't find programmes that you want to watch? Ever heard of Whishlists; a feature that no other UK PVR has.

And BTW; nothing stopped me cutting the cord. I did it. But my Tivo on M TV was offered at no extra cost, and makes a great PVR, for the vast majority of the Freeview channels.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Well reasoned, well written piece. I agree with every word.

I've long regretted moving to VM, and in particular the Tivo. When it won't do what I want, eg record a show at 2am rather than its first showing at 9pm (because I'm watching football and recording 2 others, the overlap causes problems), I'm given work-arounds - for £100 plus per month I don't want work-arounds. If you try to record a show at 2am when its being shown the previous evening at 9pm, the series link changes "for you". I don't want the bloody thing to change because messages pop up in the middle of the screen whilst I'm watching a game and I'm not happy. My Sky box doesn't do it, my Freeview box doesn't do it and my mate's BT Youview box doesn't do it.

Back to your point. I have Netflix, Prime & a subscription to Lovefilm by mail. I may not get to see everything when its first broadcast but I have a pretty good range of things to watch at a cost of <£20pm. Unfortunately, I'm a massive football fan - I watch every night and all weekend (I'm divorced by the way so condolences to those with family commitments). I keep seeing Football referred to as 'Premium Sport', now VM have done an excellent job in this regard - the fanboys fall for it. It's just sport, another form of entertainment. My problem is exactly the opposite of many others in that I see myself paying for over 200+ channels that I have absolutely no interest in. As an add-on, football of the all-you-can-eat variety (Sky, BT , Premier etc) is around £50pm but I'm paying well over £100.

TV is important to me, very important. I care for my 95yo mother so I'm indoors most of the time watching TV. What I would like is BB (without landline, although you are virtually forced into it), plus football channels and I'll look after the rest via my Amzon Fire TV box and Youview.

Try signing up for VM's 50MB BB package, £28.50pm without 'phone, £22pm with. Anyway, I'm off to BT, just under £44pm including calls, BB, loads of football and a few extra channels. Add Premier League Pass and a VPN for less than a tenner pm, sorted.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------

Sky have 'Never Miss', not quite the same as Wishlists but close enough. Anyway, I could never get Wishlist to work for me.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I do have a couple of wishlists for factual things, but they're a blunt instrument and not that useful for comedy or drama. I can't believe too many customers go through all the hassle of setting them up and tuning them to get what they want.

Fundamentally my use case is sitting down on the sofa after a hard day and wanting a system that can find something to entertain me in the shortest possible time and the least amount of fiddling in screens or preplanning. Right now that tends to be either by sticking with the live channels where I know I'll find something I want to watch or on-demand using recommendations on Amazon or Netflix. Virgin are not currently convincing me they're worth a place in my entertainment options - especially at the price they now want for the service.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

On Sky's 'never miss' system, can you type in, say, a Director, or an Actor, or any specific subject, then refine it by specifying films or TV shows that you aren't interested in, and then it will automatically record shows that fit the parameters you have set?

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I agree with most of what steveh and tassiekev say, the majority of us are lumbered with TV channels that are absolute dross, we should be able to have a package which suits our individual needs instead of 200 odd channels full of rubbish.
I'm the same as tassiekev, I love my football, and i love the BB, but they force you to take a very expensive landline too, and in this day and age of the mobile, landline phones imo are on the way out, Virgin and probably Sky as well, need to look at what they offer and give customers a package which suits their needs, i'm seriously considering dumping Virgin, £130 odd a month is now becoming beyond the average working family for TV.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

With Now TV now offering a monthly Sky sports package and BT broadband offering some of their sports with it, then it is possible for sports fans to cord cut, at a cost that is a lot less than £130.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I have already cut the cord and due to plusnets price rise i have wriggled out of my tv contract too i find this site very good for finding stuff on Netflix https://flixsearch.io/ netflix combined with my usa tv login gives me all the tv and sport i need.
I have never encountered any buffering since dropping vms bb and switch to pn either nor do i get buffering on any live sports services such as foxsport, nbcsports etc.
I'm a bit odd probably regarding wishlists as i tend to type my wish list up on google docs and keep them in the cloud, then i use the site i just posted to look for them on Netflix regions etc, i update my wishlist as needed such as put the netflix region or service a show is on next to the programme/movie.
I do have watchlists on netflix, showtime and hbogo too.
Also to keep track of shows i watch i use this site http://www.tvshowtime.com which has a app you can download too that will notify you of new episodes and you can mark off each episode as you watch it.
With the new deal pn have given me, my vpn, netflix and showtime i pay around about £50p/m the way i get usa tv now is i allow my friend in USA to use my showtime login in exchange for their xfinity tv service they created a login for me.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

My contract and Line Rental Saver is up in November, been with cable for 20yrs, always sung their praises, got 9 or 10 family and friends signed up without any 'Introduce a Friend' incentive over the years.

Come Christmas I'm planning on ditching TV and Landline, just keeping BB, say 50MB. I currently have Now TV, Netflix, Spotify and Chromecast.
When I bought a Now TV box and Chromecast I got 3 months free Now TV, which means I havn't paid for the subscription for 9 months, now I've just started paying half price for 4 months.

My series links are mostly on the freeview channel line up or Discovery and Fox, so I won't miss much else.
The Landline is only used to answer PPI calls as our mobile packages cover everything we need now-a-days. The thought of paying £17 for line rental on top of what Im paying now freaks me out, lol

TiVo is totally showing its age now, these last few weeks they have got so slow again. Spotify takes an age to load, where on Now TV app it's almost instant, YouTube I use on Chromecast as I've got used to that version now after the Youtube faults on TiVo, Netflix on Chromecast too.

So this past year I've slowly got used to streaming stuff, and quite often find myself using Chromecast and Now TV instead of waiting for TiVo to load apps.

The OnDemand section looks stale next to other services now, such as shame, as that was once, as already said, Ntl/Virgins 'Jewel in their Crown'

I'm not into sport, saying that I'm yet to be notified of a price increase, I'm glad for those who are though.

I do feel kind of sad that Virgin seems to becoming left behind in the content delivery side of things, but times are changing and prices are getting out of hand for most people. A few of the people I helped sign up are already thinking the same as me.

My plan is to get a Freesat or Freeview PVR and a Roku 3 or 4 (if it gets released soon) for the main room, with the other streaming boxes around the house.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Freesat is looking pretty good, this afternoon I received an email from Humax (I bought one of their refurbs a couple of years back - never missed a beat). They have a new Freesat box (around £200 - 1tb), over 200 channels, roll back for 7 days on 26 of them, iPlayer, ITVPlayer, all4 & demand 5. You can also add Curzon and another one I can't remember offhand.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Wss it Hopster by anychace? A pre school app thing.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

i've signed up for tv from sky and broadband from bt online tonight so i think the cord cutting has been done

i'll call virgin tomorrow and see how much they value my custom after 10 years

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Cord Cutting is generally understood to mean dropping Pay TV from a provider such as Sky or VM and sourcing content from streaming services.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I'd say Virgin, SKY and other TV providers need to allow greater flexibility with their TV packages at reasonable prices.

Here TV Player is offering 25 channels for £4.99 per month, that's 20p per channel!

http://tvplayer.com/plus

NOW TV offers 13 channels for £6.99 per month, that's 54p per channel. You can get that down to 38p per channel if you buy a 3 month pass for £15.00.

Between the 2 services your paying roughly, on average, 29p per premium channel. Imagine how much you could save if you could tailor your TV package, for the exact channels you want, for 29p per channel per month.

So say both SKY and Virgin offered all Freeview channels for free, as a standard starting point, but you had to pay £5.00 per month for a standard set top box or £10.00 per month for a recordable PVR. From there you get to choose the channels you want over and above Freeview. For me it would be:

1. SKY Atlantic
2. SKY One
3. SKY Living
4. SKY Sports News
5. FOX
6. MTV
7. Discovery
8. National Geographic
9. History
10. H2
11. Boomerang

And that's pretty much it. On top of Freeview, those are the go to channels in our house. £3.19 is all that would cost on top of the standard set top box fee of £5.00, or standard£10.00 PVR box.

But what about HD, on demand and catch up TV?

Freeview catch up would be free however if you want catch up for the channels you've selected over and above Freeview I accept there would have to be an additional fee per channel, as would HD. As posted above NOW TV can work out as little as 38p per channel which includes on demand and catch up for each channel plus the content is 720p. If that's the going rate I'd happily pay 38p per month for my selected channels to get them in 720p plus have catch up and on demand content for each channel too.

This for me would be the dream TV service. A PVR, all channels I want to watch in 720p plus on demand and catch up for £14.18 per month. No paying for channels and content I'll never watch.

The trouble for SKY and Virgin is I'm already edging towards this. I already own a dual tuner recordable Freeview HD PVR. My Smart TV has Netflix, Amazon Instant Video, NOW TV, iPlayer and Demand 5 apps built in. 7 of my 11 channel choices are available through NOW TV plus most content I'd watch from H2 and History is available via either Amazon Instant Video or the American version of Netflix. You can get NOW TV for as little as £5.00 per month, Amazon only 2 weeks ago where offering a full years prime subscription for £59.00 which works out at £4.91 per month and Netflix is from £5.99 per month. £15.90 per month all in.

I think SKY have reacted to cord cutting with NOW TV but I'm not sure what Virgin can do? In general pay TV needs a major pricing shake up, and flexible options, or people will continue to migrate to cheaper streaming services which delivers the content they want at the right price. I've had both the VIP bundle with Virgin Media and the Complete Bundle from SKY. Both offer hundreds of channels and thousands of hours worth of on demand content however both really are a waste of money if your only watching about 20% of the channels you pay for.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Dont know what Tivo you have but mine is a generation ahead of Skys offering....its fantastic.
Roger

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Apologies for misinterpreting

---------- Post added at 07:26 ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 ----------

Good post from Chad above, the amount of channels we actually watch is probably even less than your 12

My problem is I love my sport so for me it's about getting those channels for the best deal I can find

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Indeed.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

your a TiVo fan there's nothing wrong with that but to say its better than skys offering (sorry sir but your way off the mark there) the menu takes an age to go thru to get where you want to go the apps take ages to get going it can take the iplayer up to and over 2 minutes to watch a programme on sky the same can take 30 sec. skys offering is way in front.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

l would say being neutral here that Sky are in front on some things and Virgin are in front on others.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Same with youview it's a matter of seconds from selecting iplayer to playing the programme i wish to watch, all other pps aka netflix are the same too almost instant.
TIVO is a clunky piece of crap imo very outdated now.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Yes in your opinion and that's what it is all about in people having and sharing their opinions about things although l don't quite share the same opinion..

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Exactly mate that's what makes forums so great too seeing everyones opinion on things, if we all had the same opinions it'd be a very boring world lol :D

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I have experience of Sky at family visits and nothing in the world would make me give up Tivo for one of their machines... but that is my opinion some agree others do not.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Some people are happy to trade a little bit of speed for the superior functionality of Tivo.


Tivo's processing power is a little old now, and therefore slower than more modern devices. The speed of Tivo is absolutely fine for me. But if you want very fast loading of Netflix and iplayer, you could always add another device, such as the Amazon Fire TV.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Been looking a this as well, as we barely use the Tivo now, and mainly watch streaming. With Xbox One, it has all the catch up services so if you miss something just watch it there.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

That's part of the problem, I would say that Tivo is barely functional. I have Tivo, Sky+HD & Freeview boxes in front of me right now and I can't think of any test where Tivo would finish in the top 2.

Incidentally, Sky are now pushing their 'Sports Pack' at £22.75pm for 12 months - includes Atlantic, Living, Fox, Universal etc.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Then you really need to report it IMHO. There must be something wrong with it

The other boxes don't have as much to do and likely are faster. But as I've said, functionality is more important to some people.

Talking of functionality, you never answered my question on Sky's 'Never miss' compared to Tivo's Whishlists ;):D

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

They must be losing money hand over fist with some of their offers but it must work as their overall profits still seem to rise.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

NO!!!! I wonder how many Tivo users would actually use the above - other than your goodself of course.

But then I could never get Wishlists working anyway - it couldn't even find Kojak! I prefer to spend 10 minutes a week scanning my TV guide and marking the progs I want to record, far quicker.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I missed it.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Impossible to get through to retentions last night, wonder how many people are having similar conversations with them

Will try again this morning

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

The rise of IPTV services is an issue for Sky too. The new companies can move faster than the incumbents, they have better designed, smarter and easier to use applications, they're buying up content that would have traditionally gone to pay TV and (for now at least) they're at a significantly lower price point designed to attract new customers. Sky have anticipated this with Now TV, but Virgin have yet to do anything - instead they're pushing up their prices to even higher levels.

Virgin have the advantage of their own wired network, deals with many content providers and an insight into the viewing habits of their customers which could enable them to provide a truly smart box that tailored your viewing to the content from all the services and content providers they work with. Maybe they have something to launch in the autumn, but increasingly it seems like they're just happy to milk the base and that the innovation that happened around the time they first became Virgin Media was a one-off thing.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

was offered 50 meg bb and weekend calls for 25 including line rental, seemed happy for me to move the tv

said i still wanted to cancel and the guy asked if i'd accept a call from a specialist team at 10 am to discuss my options

not heard anything yet

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Well I am cutting the cord at the end of this month after over 20 years with Virgin/NTL.
I am suffering from the Mark Knopfler / Bruce Springsteen syndrome and can get most of what I want elsewhere for cheaper without all the dross you have to trail through on the epg.
Using a Firestick, Chromecast, and 2 Humax/Bt boxes with 500gb HDDs I picked up on Gumtree for £20 each I am sorted. These boxes also pickup Now TV and Netflix over the Virgin Broadband I am keeping. Virgin offered me 50mb broadband and landline for £19-50 a month which was a no brainer. Wanted more for just the broadband on its own.
Along with KODI and fusion loaded you can find just about anything you want.
I had the old style analogue TIVOS as well and when Virgin got the new Tivo I was one of the first to take it it up. But now its just slowly grinding to a halt. It is ridiculous the time you have to wait between pressing a button and something happenning. I can see Virgin copywriting the the little purple ring of waitiness so no one else can use it..... maybe they have already and are just getting their moneys worth out of it. I never thought I would get rid of my Tivo but there you go, times change and so does technology. I think Virgin need to pull their socks up or their business model is going to fall flat on its face and they will get left further and further behind as the streaming services take over.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

The major problem for VM is that they sold off the majority of their content which would make it difficult for them to offer a streaming service at a reasonable price. And you've only got to look at TV Anywhere (well anywhere you can get WiFi) to see VM are playing catch up.

I've recently switched to Sky and Sky Go is light years ahead where you can watch both live streaming and on demand on WiFi, 3G or 4G. Awesome service.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I don't think that they are losing money at all Den, their infrastructure seems to be in place, so extra customers for them will always boost their profits..

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Tried to use YouTube via TiVo tonight but again it was stuttering every minute or so. Switched to Chromecast, streamed brilliantly. We are so used to streaming now the TiVo's day's are numbered. I actually paid money to get TiVo when it first launched. What a shame it didn't keep up.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

You can now get mini pcs that sit under tvs like a firetv box etc for around £99 thesedays they are perfect for anyone wanting to cut the cord, i'm currently keeping a eye on the new intel pc sticks which are going to cost between £80 and £150 depending if you want 1gb ram and linux or 2gb ram and windows amongst other things.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Got my eye on this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/JUSTOP-Windo.../dp/B00ZFQQIK0

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

I like that, very tempted to buy one now but must resist as got far too many streaming devices but as my pc is slowly dying and i only use it for media this would be ideal replacement as use my laptop for everyday browsing, email, football manager etc. Think i will buy it when i get paid in 2 weeks :D

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Me too, Acer RL100 is slowly dying but I do love my toys.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

the answer is quite a lot

more than happy to stick around for another 12 months, didnt really want to leave anyway :)

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

The pipo x7 is something else worth looking at too hearing very good reviews on it on various fb pages. http://dealsprime.com/pipo-x7-window...mYnBoC0HHw_wcB

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Interesting, do you have to pay duty/VAT on that? - it appears to come from China.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

There are uk sellers on ebay, which if i decide to get one is where i'll buy from as get the ebay buyer protection.
The intel sticks should be out soon too £89 for linux, 1gb ram and 16gb storage or £150 for windows 8.1/10, 2gb ram and 32gb storage.

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Deceiving isn't it.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...-germany-italy

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Excellent product suggestions guys, I have been keeping an eye on this one

http://www.ebuyer.com/718137-asus-ee...c-eb1033-b013e

Shame it has a spinny HDD but thought it would also be a good solution for a mini PC

Re: What would stop you cutting the cord?
 

Looked at that myself but am a bit concerned that it's only a dual-core atom - not sure if it would have enough grunt for Kodi (which is what I'd want it for). The little miniPC I posted about a few days ago has quad-core atom and a 32gb MMC drive for £10 less. Still thinkin'.