Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33533264

The witch hunt on the former Nazi has reached it's conclusion.

Hope all the do-gooders are pleased. What is this? This still hasn't been left alone? They're now chasing 94 year old men that simply had a choice of doing what they were told or face near certain death themselves. 70 years and they're still using the 'Nazi Machine' thing. Absurd.. Leave it alone.

The guy himself doesn't deny he's morally guilty, but it really shows what it's come to now, instead of letting go they're chasing Book-Keepers.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

What precisely is your objection here?

Do you really think continuing to find and prosecute those who committed or facilitated the Holocaust should now be left alone simply because they've evaded it for so long that it's now time to 'let go'?

His age has nothing to do with it. It's 70 more years than many of the 6 million victims had.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

No, I'm saying punishing a 94 year old bloke for following orders is ludicrous. He hasn't evaded anything. He's never hidden. He's played a minimal part in this supposed 'War Machine' A lot of people were simply soldiers, forced into doing a job or face the consequences, we're quick to forget about that and brand them as fascist pigs instead.

Do your job and then be hunted for the next 70 years or die. What an amazing system. We're quickly taught to believe everyone that lived in Nazi Germany was automatically a racist ignorant fascist murderer.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

And he was responsible for their deaths, how exactly?

A man who was presumably forced to do the role or face harm/death to himself or his family? Put yourselves in that mans shoes what would you do?

They've gone after this man because there are not many left to go after. So it appears to be a case of lets get whoever we can with whatever we can.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Well he joined the SS voluntary. Also soldiers don't get prosecuted but instead people who facilitated the Holocaust do. Most Nazi War Criminals were following orders from somewhere, such a scenario would mean all but the leaders at the very top would be spared conviction for what they did. Do you think the people managing the camps weren't following orders?

You are not being taught that but rather even if someone wasn't a 'racist ignorant fascist murderer' that they're still reasonable for their actions. You don't have to be evil to have done bad things.

This guy wasn't directly killing anyone, seemed repulsed by what happened and even argued against Holocaust denial more recently but he still helped in the running of the camps at the time and he knew full well what they were doing.

I can see why this case splits people but to suggest that the prosecution of former Nazi War Criminals is being done by 'do-gooders' and it should be 'left-alone' is pretty ignorant. You're also wrong to assume that to do this means you're branding everyone as 'racist ignorant fascist murderer'. It doesn't work that way.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

No doubt if the boot was on the other foot you would have done the noble thing and topped yourself and your family instead of keeping the books?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

The same way the people who loaded the trains or drove them are responsible. They're accessories to the process. They knew what the purpose of their jobs was.

These camps were organised and industrious. It required more than just the killers themselves to operate. The whole idea, especially towards the end, was to kill as many people as efficiently as possible. They needed a lot of people to do this and make it work.

Doesn't make a difference. Believe it or not that are many times that you can empathise with people who have done bad things but that doesn't absolve anyone of complicity. I think many people would have done the same as him but they would still be reasonable for it.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

This. This is the only point I'm getting at.

How is it that the actual war criminals went on to lead IG Farben, BASF, Siemens, Volkswagen, Krupp, Zeiss, Leica Messerschmitt.. and this guy gets 'Forgiven' by many after his speaking out against holocaust deniers and then gets hung for it.

Many Auschwitz survivors have actually forgiven this man, by do-gooders I mean the 20 year olds standing outside the court with banners demanding his head...

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Probably not but that wouldn't absolve me of what I would have done. I think a lot of people here seem to think that only other people can do bad things.

One of the things about this part of history is the story of how otherwise normal humans, like you and me, did something unimaginably evil.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

No. But how far down the food chain do you go with culpability? The guy who cleaned the windows? The supplier of bread to the camp? Pens? etc.

How about the Catholic church who's silence during the war years was deafening?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Do we punish him by today's law? rather than what we would've done 70 years ago?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ikes-kill-1147

Now that is a war crime. It's the US though, no one really gives a toss. Especially given anyone under the age of 20 now believes all muslims are extremists.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

The current law in Germany states you have to have been working there and had full knowledge of what the purpose of the camp was.

I mean the other side to this is that he joined the SS of his own accord and was then assigned to Auschwitz at that point he could have been given a gun or a pen. Is it then fair for the ones in the first group to be prosecuted and not the ones in the latter group? They all joined the SS and they all were involved in making these camps efficient at what they did, and they all knew what the camps were for.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

He made the argument they had no clue what it was for until he saw it for himself.

There were many, him included that then tried to leave the SS. Naturally, a lot just grabbed their gun and went on with it.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

I put it to you it makes a hell of a lot of difference, it's very easy for you to sit in an ivory tower and pontificate and cast judgement. I suspect if you were placed in the same situation it would sharp change.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

I am not casting judgement upon him as a person but saying he is responsible for his part in the running the camp. There is a disconnect here where you think just because you can understand his motivations and, in the same situation, would do the same thing means he isn't culpable.

Very few people would have known what they were getting into. This isn't a film where people woke up with evil intent but they still ended up doing evil things.

The Times has better reporting of this including the part where he did occasional guard duty on those that arrived and the Judge's statement:

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

He is culpable of taking the money from the prisoners and performing guard duty, he is not and cannot be held accountable for their deaths.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

The SS were specially selected lunatics, in my view those who were responsible in genocide should pay the price regardless of age, race, etc.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

The whole purpose of the camps were to kill people quickly and efficiently. Does it really matter who physically administered the final part of it?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Erm, yes ????

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Why? As I said this guy could have been ordered to kill the trigger or work at a desk. All the arguments you've made about this have been he was forced to do and was following orders. Why doesn't that apply to the people assigned to the killing but does for the ones assigned to making the process run smoothly?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

But wasn't

The people who pulled the triggers or flicked the switches or turned the valves are responsible for the deaths. The man who took their money as they came into the camp is not.

In fact bollocks, are the people who built the building responsible? after all had it not been built the exterminations couldnt have taken place. If they're dead sod it lets prosecute the immediate family ???

You used to be one of the most switched on people i knew on here, not entirely sure whats happened?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

You've said that he was only following orders and if he hadn't he might have been killed. However the same goes for the people that did the physical killing.

Why are they fair game for prosecution but the administrators not?

After all these were camps designed to kill people. People worked to make these camps as efficient as possible. The train drivers, the accountants, the guards and the other administrative staff where all working to make these camps work.

Also I would point out he isn't being convicted for murder but accessory to murder.

No because the test is that you had to know what the purpose of the camp was.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

wonder what Tony Bliars PA will get at the trial i doubt i was only taking notes will be a defense .

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Almost all of the construction was carried out by prisoners so they didn't survive.....

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Where's the fairness in all this too? As I've already said, there were several high ranking Nazi officials that committed real atrocities and actually killed people that have since been pardoned and went on to take up even higher ranking jobs in companies like Volkswagen. Too hard to chase someone with money eh? Easier to punish a book-keeper whom went the entire war without pushing a switch.

Extremely dodgy logic in this. I wonder if the Germans would also punish their own servicemen if they were massacring civilians with drones the same way the British and US army are.

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

But they still helped the Nazi cause right? They had the same choice as this guy, do it or be killed. Even worse when considered it's highly likely the *******s forced them to build it then killed them anyway.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Well if we're going to pursue those who have some responsibility for hundreds of thousands of deaths but didn't actually pull the trigger a certain TB should be in the dock together with his cohorts.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

That's impossible, he's British. Should know by know it doesn't work like that if you're British or from the US.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Have to say I agree with you on this particular example

---------- Post added at 21:15 ---------- Previous post was at 21:08 ----------

Reign it in a bit.

What about all the women that worked in UK munitions factories during the war effort.

Knowing full well that the bullets and bombs they make are going to kill some innocent people and children.

Do you view them in the same way. They didn't pull the trigger, but they provided the weaponry for the those that did. Is the blood of innocent people on their hands?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

must say i fail to see what justice has been served here this is revenge for something he had no control over .

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

It will be interesting to see how the current crop of Islamic Nazi's are judged and treated as time moves forward.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

and the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about the state of Israel which treats its neighbors like something they have stood in .

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

That isn't the same thing though. We don't prosecute people for participating in conventional warfare. They are not going after the equivalent people on the Germany side for this nor do they go after the rank and file infantry or the Generals of the conventional armies that spread out across Europe unless they participating in specific war crimes during that time.

The women that worked in UK munitions factories were making weapons designed for conventional warfare against a invading force. They were not working in a factory design to systematically kill an entire race of people who were not invading or posing a threat to them. The former is not a war crime, the later is.

Remember there are two parts to this prosecution. They had to have been involved in the running of the camp and they had to know what the camp was for.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

I hope we pursue and prosecute perpetrators of genocide after the nazis with equal vigour

---------- Post added at 00:42 ---------- Previous post was at 00:41 ----------

You are joking, no one saved more Jews during wwii than the Catholic Church and the Pope in particular

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:42 ----------

Actually we did go after the generals, Alfred jodl in particular sticks in the mind

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

There were still many high rankers that managed to get a pardon and ended up having relaxing mega money jobs at some time for the world's biggest companies, those of which I've listed in this thread. Volkswagen is no secret though.

As for pursuing future murders and people that have committed atrocities, we don't though do we. I've said it 3 times now. The British government have killed thousands. Drone operators alone alongside the US have killed over 1000 civilians in Pakistan since the strikes started. It's apparently justified by the 50 or so suspects we killed. There was a family last year that came public about a strike killing his elderly grandmother... We didn't bat an eyelid.

No one is on trial for our crusade against Iraq in our mad pursuit for mythical weapons.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

I was thinking more of genocide tbh

http://newint.org/features/special/2...res-in-europe/

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

The world isn't fair but the fact some people have gotten away with injustice doesn't mean the rest should do. We never were able to go after those responsible for the mass-killings in Eastern Europe because they were behind the iron curtain protected by a powerful country. Likewise some German scientists were pardoned because they were needed to help the building of nuclear weapons.

I don't see any of that as an argument as to why we should go after those that we can though?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Oh. We set them free? Another good deed done by the world police sidekick.

I wonder if this means someone will finally get slapped with a book regarding the fact people were actually left in Auschwitz, gays in fact. Allies liberate it but leave all the homosexuals and just let it go on.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

You appear to be conflating civilian casualties in a war with the systematic genocide of a race - they are completely different things is both scope and intent.

Unfortunately (and civilian casualties are covered by the Geneva Convention), in war, and especially in the asymmetrical type of war carried out by ISIS and AQ where they hide amongst civilians, innocent people get killed - it is only in video games where no one except the bad guys get taken out. It's not nice, but then, neither is war.

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

Linky, please - that is news to me, as I always thought that before the Soviets reached the camp, the majority of prisoners were taken away by the Nazis to Belsen (which was liberated by the Allies), leaving only a couple of thousand prisoners.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers..._the_Holocaust

I'm wrong. I'd read it as homosexuals were given further punishment and took that as they were just kept there. They were included in the death march. After that I don't really have any idea besides the fact German Law continued to be disgusting. Jewish homosexuals were likely killed and German homosexuals were imprisoned until long after the war. What happened to Jewish homosexuals that survived though? Were they allowed to flee or did they then face humane imprisonment for being gays rather than being Jewish?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Not sure what you're getting at here? The UK also criminalised homosexuality at the time.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

That is the point and the question I'm asking. We're such a humanitarian force but punished gays (albeit not in Auschwitz fashion) We'd save a jew.. Unless he was gay basically? That's what I'm getting at or asking. The left behind bit was wrong on my part.

The above is for a case being that people that committed atrocities in Auschwitz against solely gay people can't be trialed for it because we agreed with it. I.E no German man can bring charges against them despite being tortured in Auschwitz.

To expand further on what Hugh said about civilian loss. I think that's all backwards. British and American drone ops have a ratio of 1 suspect killed per 50 civilian deaths and that's acceptable? That's ridiculous, it isn't war it's slaughter. They didn't just collect civilians in collateral damage, they actually aimed for these people and killed them.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

We didn't agree with the genocide of homosexuals and Anti-Semitism was rife across Europe as well after all. Are you saying that because homophobia existed in the UK we don't have the right to go after those who committed the genocide? I don't think that logic works at all.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

What next? Do we start prosecuting the inmates who worked as slave labour for the nazis within these camps or the survivors as they didn't do enough themselves to revolt against the camp guards

This criminal case and result is pathetic as I'm sure that in the last 70+ years this man has punished himself far more than the 4 years they've sentenced him to.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-oskar-6072457

I think that sums it up well. I especially like the part about a lot of these being normal people who could have been us.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

That's the trouble with despots like Hitler who create situations in which hatred can be bred and exploited in order to manipulate ordinary people into the tools of monsters before they ever realise it. With so much death and horror everywhere it effectively becomes 'normal' with people desensitised to and/or in denial of the carnage around them.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

My father was in the SS.......:angel:

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

My wife worked for the (DH)SS....

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Did she kill anyone? :D

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Just my hopes and dreams.....

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

I hope no-one she knows sees that post :rofl:

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

So was my grandma's first husband

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Me too.... :D

(Actually, she kept my hopes and dreams alive after my first marriage...)

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Hurray, we spent 70 years chasing an accountant, and finally we got him, and now this most evil of men has been sentanced to four years for his evil evil crimes (!).... what a fantastic use of money and resources .......

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

They didn't spend 70 years chasing him. It's a combination of his public admissions of his involvement and a change in how these cases are seen.

Also as I mentioned before it would be wrong to see him as evil but that doesn't mean he couldn't do something wrong. The article I mentioned before has it right, calling them evil let's us dismiss them as inhuman and therefore we couldn't be capable of doing in the same thing if we found ourselves in the same circumstances.

As for the money and resources I think a lot of these investigations are funded and worked on by Holocaust campaign groups and the victims of it. They are currently trying to find remaining living concentration camp guards and workers before they all die. To them it is a fantastic use of money and resources. There isn't a time expiry other than the lifetime of those accused.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Don't forget BMW, another reason to boycott them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/w...Nazi-past.html

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ----------

How far do you go to hunt them down?

What about the cook, or the guy who delivered food?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

It seems to me that the bloke only complained to his superior officers at the way the holocaust happened not that it was happening .After witnessing the murder of an infant he complained to his superior that if the extermination of the Jews must happen "then at least it should be done within a certain framework" .The question has to be asked ,would he have behaved any different if he had a choice

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Some questions have no answers sadly - some guilty folks go free and some innocent folks are punished.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

This pretty much.

It appears they have in fact spent time and money chasing this guy.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Think how many people were fine with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht before the war had even started. It's horrific how, as Osem said above, desensitised people became.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Indeed
We have yet to see these 'heroes' brought to account for their crimes:

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Everyone who voted for the Nazi party and for Hitler to become Chancellor should also be jailed, That's equally as impractical but equally as justified.

At least we can butcher as many civilians as we want nowadays as long as we get a terrorist every once in a while, thanks 'Geneva Convention' What's worse is the support the deaths get, 'They're Muslim so who gives a toss''

A part of the British public has become just as brainwashed as the german public when it comes to Muslims. See your local EDL smashing shop windows every other week, not actually having a clue what they're opposing as long as they can be racist about it.

It's easy to claim the old, Oh we know not all muslims are terrorists.. Doesn't quite work like that with Pre-20 cider drinking chav's and racist old nazi skinheads. Thanks to social media, they're not exactly a minority anymore either. UKIP would probably reflect this in the election just gone, They'll claim all they want but as soon as the youngsters heard immigration, they were all over it. Clueless.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Erm. no.

a)There is a huge difference between voting in a party, which a number of years later, decides to carry out a policy of genocide, and working in a camp where the genocide is carried out.

b) It's not about not giving a toss, it's about recognising real-world outcomes - in war, civilians get killed, it's only if the actual intention is to kill civilians when it becomes a war crime. If we didn't take any action which caused risks/death to people near the targeted individuals, we would have no way of striking back - that's why AQ and ISIS embed themselves within the populace.

I'm not being cold-hearted, just realistic.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Hitler never won an election or was democratically appointed, does that make a difference to the justification

---------- Post added at 00:56 ---------- Previous post was at 00:49 ----------

Same thing happened to German civilians at the end of the war, 12 million civilians forcibly exiled from areas to become polish and Czech, up to 2 million died and nearly all the women and girls were multiply raped, the Soviets brushed the figures of as exaggerated and then dismissed the scale as it was only nazis whilst ignoring they were also raping slave labourers, concentration camp victims and even female red army pow's

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Jean Charles De Mendes springs to mind, Civilian shot dead by British police under the suspicion he was a terrorist. They've been in and out of court since 2005.

We wouldn't allow drones to take out terror suspects in the UK. Nor would we accept the death of 50 British members of the public as realistic. :shocked:

1000 civilian deaths caused by Western drones to 50 potential terrorists killed isn't realistic, it's legal mass murder. That's over 900 strikes on evidently unverified targets with no legal response. You can't possibly come to the conclusion they were just caught up in the crossfire on 900 different occasions because they weren't. They were very wrongly marked as kill with evidently dire Intel. Despite this they continue to kill civilians. It's not accidental. It's based on the exact same presumption as Mendes. They were wrong then and they're even more wrong now.

The western double standards are truly a mess. The Russians waltz into Ukraine and it's a world outrage. The British and US march into the middle east looking for mythical weapons and find nothing...totally justified.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Erm, no. You may have noticed that a big chunk of the west is a bit upset about that being allowed to happen. :(

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Yup. That is one example of how these things aren't fair. We can't prosecute those involved but we do wish we could.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Where though does someone draw the line? Even joint enterprise in this country wouldn't sentence a mass murderer's accountant even if the accountant knew what was going on and was to scared to stand up to the murderer.

This was a show trial for the sake of the few left who suffered in the holocaust especially as it's probably the last trial pertaining to that period in time.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

I fail to see how this is anything to do with the topic of genocide and who is still legally culpable and who isn't. You're just talking about inconsistent moral standards in the West and general moral relativism.

---------- Post added at 09:13 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

Actually they might well do depending on the exact circumstances. Especially if that possible was still involved in corrupt activities. In this case collecting and selling on the items, remember this guy also stood guard for new arrivals to 'help' with their possessions.

Another thing is one of the more constant defences on here was that he would have been killed if he objected but there isn't much evidence of the Nazi's harming or murdering SS officers who didn't cooperate with the exterminations. I believe one of the reasons they used gas was because shooting was having an affect on the moral and mental well-being of those being tasked to do the job.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

There's lots of cases of the nazis imprisoning those going against them in political camps that were just as bad as the death camps so those assuming that he would have been killed (although the long way round) are probably correct

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Not SS officers though. I'll look it up later but I believe there are even instances where they openly refused to obey orders and were not published. The loyalty Himmer showed them is one of the curious parts of the history.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Political camp, Russian front either way a death sentence...civilian, army or SS were punished..

There were cases of officers transferred to less direct roles within the camps so instead of taking part in the killings/cremations they were posted as guards but I have not heard of lower down people getting transferred (apart from the usual Russian front threat)

The world (especially Europe) has supposed to have grown up in the last 70 years and put a lot of this behind us yet we're pandering to show trials designed to squeeze sympathy for the holocaust victims and not to allow us to forget what happened..(as if that would ever happen)

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

I doubt it sadly. The same old tensions and hatreds are still there as we have seen in Bosnia, Russia and many other places around the globe (N/S Korea, China/Japan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Israel etc. etc. etc. The forces at work seem to transcend logic/common sense and I don't think we've learned much at all . IMHO it's just a question of how long before something major sets it all off again and we have global conflict... :erm:

Just my happy thought for the day... :)

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

They might squeeze another in

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...-news/1.666468

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Most of the shooting was carried out by eastern European units of eitzengruppen whose moral and mental welfare wasn't a high priority, unlike the waffen ss whose welfare was placed on a far higher pedestal for obvious reasons and the reason they switched from the far more efficient shooting method was because himmler watched some executions and was sick!

---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------

What like eva Braun's brother...

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

?

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Actually her brother in law...

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

On a related note. The mastermind of it all may well have escaped:

http://yournewswire.com/is-this-hitl...riend-in-1984/

:erm::dozey:

More stunning is the people sharing it on Facebook and acting convinced. It's not even new stuff, It's only being brought up because of this case.

We all know the Titanic never sank, Hitler took control of it, he parked it in the centre of Berlin until the day of his escape in which he set off towards Australia in hopes of finding sanctuary in the worlds largest prison.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Necro

https://www.jta.org/2017/08/02/news-...rison-sentence

Declared fit for prison. Not sure he'll serve a day though.

I wonder if Von Braun was fit for prison? or the other 1600 war criminals that walked free providing they provided a form of usefulness to the western agenda. Doesn't matter though, The Americans became so infatuated by Von Braun that they seemingly forgot about his participation in the slave labour and deaths of over 20,000 concentration camp prisoners. Obviously the 2,754 deaths in London can just be written off.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

What exactly was his participation in slave labour, my understanding is he only ever visited the rocket facility once and played no part in the planning or construction of it and
was arrested by the gestapo for saying he'd rather fire rockets into space than at people. Perhaps he could've shared a cell with Barnes Wallis, his bombs killed a lot of civilians to or can they just be written of because they were mainly Russian pow's. Patrick Moore thought he wasn't responsible for any crimes after speaking at length with him on the subject, that's good enough for me.

Re: Auschwitz book-keeper Groening sentenced to four years
 

Well it goes to show what goes around comes around eventually. If we imprison children for really awful crimes why not an OAP?