Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

i came across this ad on more 4 last night. looks like virgin are dropping their fibre internet ad campaign for Docsis 3. Maybe ISP's have been told they cant refer to their internet as "Fibre" anymore?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq9YYISEJzs

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Nah they're still fine to refer to it as fibre optic, fibre broadband, etc.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

They need to differentiate. If everyone is saying fibre broadband when they mean HFC or FTTC it makes it very difficult to explain why your service is better.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

the problem is that they have no interest in explaining why it is better because if they did that anything they said would have to be factual, there would have to be empirical data to back it up and they would have to tell the truth. They want to be as vague as possible but still get as many buzz words in as possible to make it sound like they are the best.

"fibre optic broadband, docsis 3, superhub, unbeatable wireless performance"

Nobody knows what docsis 3 is so they'll assume it is some new super duper technology which VM is using and they can get it before anyone else.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

There's a virgin billboard ad near me that shows quite succinctly why theirs is better. It has a Coax cable next to a twisted pair, which of course is half the size of the coax.

I think the tagline is something like "Why is our fibre better than the competition?".

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I'm not sure it mentions fibre. Doesn't it just say "broadband cable"?

I've noticed also that the TV ad now only refers to BT, rather than BT and Sky. Not sure why they've taken the reference to Sky out.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

If only they could think of away to properly explain the massive benefits of already having a fat pipe to your home.

Then they just need to bring the CMTS to the cab and they'll have leveraged that advantage.

Until OR work out a way to get 'moles' / 'ants' / 'beetles' to pull fibre down existing ducts or 'squirrels' / 'gibbons' / 'flying fish' to wrap fibre overhead with little cost, VM will have a potential technical advantage.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Something like this?

Fibre deep HFC / FTTLA brings a largely similar value, and the VM network is progressively evolving to that with each node split.

Like BT and their moving of fibre progressively closer to homes it's an incremental thing.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Exactly

Except for VM it's not a progression but a step change.

Not like this because for VM it's not an incremental but structural change.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Each resegmentation pushes fibre deeper into the network. There are some areas where the nodes are in the last cabinet before the customers. The only difference between that and remote PHY is the fibre run between the cabinet and the hubsite is analogue and the affects that may have.

Remote PHY is about using fibre more efficiently - converting the RF into digital earlier so that you can use WDM to reduce fibre count. FTTLA is, as far as customer experience goes, equivalent.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Exactly my point. The step change is moving the fibre from DOCSIS to digital.
The hybrid network would then be equivalent to OR's FTTC structure but with a much bigger (and higher 'quality') pipe to the home. VM might even have a benefit from the greater number of street side cabinets.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

That needs FTTP. The coaxial final drop is the issue, and DOCSIS is far more efficient than digital transport.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

You could be absolutely correct, I wasn't paying that much attention to it as I didn't anticipate it coming up on a forum discussion a couple of days later :P

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I agree that DOCSIS is an efficient method of data transport for multiple access systems but is not suited to point to point fibre links.

Further, DOCSIS requires heavy FEC because of the coaxial element of the network that digital transport over fibre does not.

I'd suggest that the best topology would be 10Gb capable digital fibre links to the existing street cabs. These would contain the DOCSIS CMTS equipment feeding a small group of end users over the existing final drop coax.

You're right; the coaxial final drop is the issue; its the cable system's trump card.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

DOCSIS 3.1 will resolve many of the inefficiencies inherent in DOCSIS. It is, after all, still data being sent in MPEG 2 framing.

The FEC isn't that heavy, especially when compared with interleaved xDSL.

The coaxial drop is a trump card over xDSL-based solutions, however it's a choke point when using remote PHY or BDF/BDR.

Remote PHY and/or BDF/BDR might be on the radar at some point, however there is no urgent need right now. Essentially moving the line cards out into the street might be how things go eventually but it's a way away. It is, however, a consideration for the future for sure, and VM in common with many others already use BDR.

http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/sol...pman_paper.pdf

For those who want more discussion on this. 10Gb-capable XGPON has been tested and works well.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

The problem is that in advertising speak at least, fibre-optic is just another way of saying it's fast. Most people don't actually give a stuff how their broadband is delivered (HFC, ADSL, Fibre, Carrier Pigeon) as long as they get the speed they pay for. They have little technical knowledge, and the advertisers have taught them that fibre=fast. Start throwing other technical terms (such as HFC or FTTC) at them, and they are just going to ask "Is it as fast as fibre?", even though the bulk of the cable connecting them to the internet *may be* fibre.

Maybe Virgin are moving away from the fibre broadband is fast type adverts, but it's going to take a while.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Incidentally have people noticed that $ky's TV ads for broadband have dropped the phrase "We'll never slow you down"?

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

no

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I think the problem is obvious, for years Virgin were allowed to advertise as "Fibre-optic" despite the last mile being coax, much to BT's complaints. However, now that BT can also use the "Fibre" term, Virgin needs something else to differentiate the technology.

Fibre used to be a USP, now it's not.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I agree that's the problem they're trying to solve. But as someone mentioned earlier, won't people now say "isn't fibre faster than DOCSIS?".

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I don't think. I can remember fibre optic being the buzz 25 years ago and learning about it in physics at school. Everyone knows what fibre is and that it is the bees knees. I can guarantee that 95% haven't heard of docsis so they defo won't be saying "is fibre faster than something I have never heard of".

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Mon General gets right to the point. Fibre Optics means speed of light. That's fast and the unwashed (so to speak) will have that at the back of their mind.

DOCSIS? The Doctor's sister but with a bigger willy?

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Tell us something we don't know :P

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I know, I re-read that post when Seph replied to it and realised I made a few typos which I can't go back and fix now. I hate it when you make a typo and it makes the sentence sound like something completely different compared to what you wanted it to :p (I missed "so" off the end)

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Is that 'cos you don't think?:D:D:D:D

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

how has your weekend been? I forgot to message you last week. I really really wanted to go and I have missed a great opportunity but I am going diving next month and it is going to cost me a few thou so I had to leave it :( I am going to plan it in properly for next year and then I have got plenty of time to save up my pennies. I just hope he comes back and brings Bruce Boxleitner with him.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

You're not thinking again!:D:D:D:D:D It was Claudia who couldn't make it last time so that should be a SHE.

A normal Summer LFCC weekend, total mayhem and an early start, a lot of non-stop work and late finish for us and plenty of drinking afterwards.

I'll let you know when Claudia's coming over again but it may not be London, it could be anywhere. Same with Bruce but not sure if he does the Cons.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I know he went to the San Diego comicon 2 years ago. One of my friends went and wanted to get an autograph and the queue was so long that they said he wouldn't get through everyone in one day so they gave out tickets for the following day and it was still stupidly long so he gave up.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

If Bruce ever comes over I'll get you one.;)

It's one thing crew are always guaranteed, they always get the autograph they want as they haven't time to queue being busy with looking after the public and guests.

A crew badge works wonders! We do book them in advance though.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I would give anything to meet Captain Sheridan and shake his hand

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Don't, you're making me sad :(

Someone needs to reboot B5 just like they did with BSG.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

That I would think would make at least 3 of us.:D

I'd like to see a re-boot of Andromeda with Lexa Doig too (my avatar) but I don't think it will ever happen.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I have had an agreement with a close group of friends for a few years now that if I ever won £100+ million on the euro millions that we would start our own tv production company and bring back shows like B5. I would go to Warner Bros (or whoever it is who has the rights) and I would foot the cost of producing the show and they can keep all the profit. All I ask is that if the show makes a profit I get my money back and then I can start something else. The problem with tv networks is that they obsess about ratings and profit and don't look at the artistic quality. I personally wouldn't be involved with it because I like to think it is all real anyway :) I would pay for the best writers, set designers etc and put a great team together and let them have at it. The one thing I would love to do with B5 is get as many as the original crew back as poss and rebuild proper sets to make it as authentic as possible and none of that cg rubbish they did a couple of years ago.

And whilst we are talking about it, I defo want another Star Trek series as well. If it was based on a time ship like the Relativity the story possibilities would be endless. I would be more than happy to fund two or three season of that (character establishment etc) and see how it goes.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

To an extent I do agree with you but you have the problem of the TV Co's. They only look at the advertising revenue so if something doesn't get the ratings then advertisers won't pay for that slot within the programme and they lose money.

Perversely, you offer to do it for free for (in your example) Warner Bros then they have to sell it to the TV Co's. If they don't think it'll make them money through advertising then they won't buy it.

Then there could be another problem. Warner Bros may only own the distribution rights not the intellectual rights. Whoever owns them must be willing to allow you to use them (for a Large fee).

It's a total minefield perhaps intentional to stop what you (and others) may be willing to do.

Isn't this off topic to the thread though?

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Yet long distance connections that require extremely low latency use wireless, not fibre optic, because the speed of light in fibre is actually rather slow.

The 'fast'ness of fibre comes from it carrying craptons of bandwidth, and has nothing to do with the speed of light.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I think Seph was referring to public perception rather than any technical viewpoint.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I don't think that's the public perception though, plus in any case public perception is usually wrong.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-public-wrong-about-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Perception isn't about being right. Perception influences buying decisions, though.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

And what exactly do you perceive the public perceives the speed of light to be perceivably faster than?

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Don't be silly.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Three other series I would bring back; Terminator:SCC, Jericho and Dark Angel (in that order)

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

I can think of a thread topic I'd like to bring back ;)

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

It's all relative..... according to my German uncle....

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

lol

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Surely for the distances involved the speed of electrons in wire and photons in cable are ALMOST irrelevant. It's how fat the pipe is.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Correct, how fat the pipe is and how you talk through the pipe matters. Most (>90%) of the latency is caused by the bridges, amplifiers, and repeaters.

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

And DCF, but Bragg gratings have improved.

Latency in general is just to do with how long the cable is.

A new low latency trans-Atlantic cable is currently being installed, it's secret? It's shorter than all the others (and fewer repeaters).

A few milliseconds advantage for an algorithmic Stoke trade = £100millions

Re: Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?
 

Yeah, the number I hear being bandied about is 1ms of latency is worth about £5m a year to HFT companies.

The transatlantic paths are getting quite close to the theoretical maximum speed now based on the speed of light, with previous gen cables still giving round-trip latencies 20-40% higher than the cable length alone would suggest. The claimed 55-60ms RTT from London to NYC on the latest gen cables come within 10% of the absolute best we'll ever get, unless someone embeds an open-air a waveguide through the earth's mantle.

However paths on the other side of the world are still slow enough that less than half the round trip time is attributable to actual signal propagation along the fibre.

But I digress. In the home broadband environment, most of the latency in the last mile comes from the bridging devices at either end - i.e. the modems, DSLAMs, and CMTS.