Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Hey all,

One for the CPE geeks, would the below work for them as far as a new Superhub goes?

Hitron CGNv4.

I ask as this is in use in other parts of the Liberty Global group.

Ticks the boxes - AC wireless, voice capability, 24x8 modem.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Wonder how many of those features VM would actually leave enabled - seems to be capable of running a carrier hotspot facility ala BT Fon.

Also wonder if they actually equipped it with a fast enough processor to deliver the headline 1Gbps wirelessly.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

It would make sense for LibGlob to standardise equipment over the company, but I'm not sure they're there yet.

Seems like a decent piece of equipment. I'll be surprised if the next hub doesn't have VoIP capabilities.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

So will i. ;)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

The last hub had VoIP capabilities, VM decided to remove them though.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

It looks horrible like the old WNDR2000 netgear routers. I hope virgin have them spruse up the casing if they go with this company.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I could not possibly care less about the casing, as long as performance is solid.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I Googled "Pizza Router":

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/49.jpg

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Eewwww. Ubuntu.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

None of the Superhubs were eMTAs in their previous existence as far as I know, they were all reshelled data gateways?

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Oh pleeeease.

What do you prefer?

Something nice and shiny or something that WORKS?

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

The looks of a cable modem are serious business.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Dunno how they worked, but the base CG3100 model had two phone ports for VOIP service.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

So far we now use Liberty Global style HDUs and Liberty globals style of F connectors, to me it makes sense buying in bulk so Im all for it

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Okay.

The Superhub was built off the CG3100D which didn't.

---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

Those are also full band capture modems, so as I posted on another thread they are basically spectrum analysers hence great for capturing network data :)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Hope they make the next model able to be positioned upright or flat... I have a horrible cable snag due to the upright hub having to be further from the splitter than the modem was.
Either that, or pack the self-install kit with an extra 1m link cable.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Nice but still no evidence yet of any attempt to embed Samknows test regime either? :(

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

There's no need. Cable modems can be instructed to run speed tests without the embedded Samknows.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Yes but I'm not personally aware of any that are (or likely) to be end user accessible (or publishable) but readily accede to your expertise and experience in this field.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

You're correct. They exist to help operators diagnose faults rather than to supply data to end users.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Not sure what you know about the difference between the CG3100D and CG3100 non-D, but all the info I can find on the D online seems to show it's identical to the non-D with the 2 VOIP ports. Regardless, it'll almost certainly be based of the same platform and SoC either way with the capability there, but disabled, whether or not it has the physical ports to show it.

The BT Home Hub 5 has the same capability (the Lantiq chipset has explicit support for two phone ports) but again unused by choice of the provider.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

http://www.netgear.com/images/cg3000...c0918-4742.pdf

Bottom right of the last page of this datasheet:

Model
CG3100D

WAN
EuroD3.0

Voice
N

If you search for CG3100D you can see that there are stock Netgear units without the VoIP ports. For instance http://www.olx.ph/index.php/view+cla...outer+(CG3100D)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Interesting. First few results I saw included a picture and a video of someone's 3100D which had VOIP ports, as well as an ISP's CG3100D manual which was just the 3100 manual.

Nonetheless as I mentioned above it's the same BCM3380 chipset and does have telephony support:
http://datasheet.elcodis.com/pdf/48/...3380dkfsbg.pdf

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

The select sourced variant from Netgear themselves did not support VoIP as Netgear offered a version without hardware ports.

As Virgin Media doesn't currently offer VoIP for residential service, then there was no business need to select a variant with ports that would not be used.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Most of these chipsets do. Cost increment to incorporate those features is minimal.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Indeed, that being my point all along - the capability is there, VM chose not to use it.

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------

Cost increment to supply a decent device to begin with instead of the Superhub would have been minimal too, but we all know what VM are like with "minimal" costs ;)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I suppose it's more like "they chose not to invest in the infrastructure required to use it at that time". Nice to see that they're finally doing so.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

There was no need for VoIP. It only starts making sense when you are planning a big infrastructure build in the future and the 'older' POTS networks begin to really creak.

Both are happening, delivering telco in the old stylie is expensive so Packet Cable / VoIP is happening.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

The only downside being that if your broadband goes down, you can't phone in to get it checked :D

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

That's the trick. Built in reliability & redundancy on all current failure modes.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I don't know how they could possibly achieve that without essentially laying the network down twice.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I don't know of anyone who doesn't own a mobile phone

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

What about the people on PAY AS YOU GO that have no credit.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Pretty sure if you've got a Virgin Mobile even on PAYG with no credit, 150 is still free ;)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Your current phone line connects to a single point of failure line card via a single point of failure piece of copper, and from there goes on a fibre link whose resilience to JCB action may or may not be especially strong.

Resilience is supplied by using battery back up power supply for the amplifiers.

That is adequate, alongside ensuring that you've Pre-EQ and the UGS service flows that VoIP will use run at a very conservative modulation or aggressive dynamic upstream modulation profile if it's possible. Given each call requires just 64kbps running them at QPSK is fine.

QPSK with Pre-EQ, etc, etc, means upstream SNRs right down to ~12dB are feasible.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

That's all well and good, but historically the broadband has been much less reliable than the phone line (Not a slant on the infrastructure, I think it's just the nature of a much more complicated beast). In all the years I've been with Virgin, I think I've had one phone fault but numerous broadband faults.

As for bandwidth, the problem is when congestion hits. It's fine saying you can run it off QPSK but the total bandwidth drops considerably and people are still going to be downloading stuff. QoS is the answer to that but again, historically, Virgin have never been particularly great at that sort of thing and I'm not confident it'll work well in those situations.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

The standards for telco over cable are very well established and work fine across millions of installed lines throughout the world.

It isn't possible for it to be affected by congestion, the VoIP takes precedence over everything.

It would only be the VoIP that runs over QPSK, everything else remains as it was.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PacketCable

All Liberty Global. VM have staff trained in PacketCable and can make use of the experience of the Liberty architecture group at Schipol, Netherlands. :)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

its like when u ring in to report a fault with your broadband and that automated woman says to check server status online.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I think that's a misconception primarily based of the fact most people use their broadband more than their phone therefore more likely to notice when it's broken, plus most people blame anything that prevents access to a website on their broadband, whether the problem is remotely related to them or not.

A fault with the line at the other end people blame on the other person having no mobile reception, or the other person's telephone provider because your own must be working because you get a dial-tone and you can call everyone else. A broken server or CDN at the far end, a broken DNS server or a routing cock-up at a border gateway though, people will blame that on a broadband fault, even though you get a dial-tone and can still call everyone else.

Inter-provider gateway faults on POTS are just as common IMO, though the lack of dynamic routing protocols somewhat mitigates the number of possible failure modes.

Bandwidth for cable voice services will be completely separate and isolated from broadband. It would be just as impossible for broadband congestion to affect telephone service as it is now.

---------- Post added at 12:15 ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 ----------

VM have staff trained in user support and can make use of the experience of many of their better agents, seen here and elsewhere, but seem to still prefer deferring to the Indian subcontinent... :erm:

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------

Not much different to the people taking broadband only right now and don't even have a phone line, VM being the only network on which that's possible.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Which you can do from an internet enabled device such as a Smartphone.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I'll believe it when I see it! I'm not convinced it'll go smoothly at all but we'll see.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I'm sure those people could spare a fiver out of their jobseekers allowance

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I have absolutely no doubt there will be initial issues. That's why there'll be trials in labs, then smaller scale in the field, beforehand, to ensure the combination of CPE and CMTS hardware and firmware behaves :)

It's not some voodoo magic that's unique to VM. Comcast, Cogeco Cable Canada, Rogers Canada, Time Warner, bits of the UPC family, etc, have been selling this stuff since 2005.

I believe that the UPC family is going to be slowly but surely evolving to using the same CPE, CMTS, CCAP, etc, for obvious reasons, and when that happens the most profitable and revenue rich segment of the business, VM, can have smaller sister companies run their scale testing for them :)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Fingers crossed! I actually really like VoIP, we use it in the office and it's fantastic - but we have a leased line, so it doesn't tend to go down. If Virgin can pull it off, it'll be a bit of a game changer as they can do away with line rental.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Why would they do that? You are still renting a landline from Virgin Media, it's just the technology that delivers it is different.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

They aren't going to do away with line rental - no-one else has :)

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Well then they're missing a potentially huge selling point. The fact that you don't need a landline is a huge USP that Virgin takes almost no advantage of.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Probably because everyone else who sells bundles hides some of the cost of the broadband in the line rental, hence they're able to sell the broadband at a lower headline cost.

VM do the same thing, which is why the cost of broadband and line rental taken as a bundle is lower than the cost of both added together separately.

Broadband a la carte 152Mb = £41/month, 12 month contract.
Broadband + phone = £20/month for 12 months then £30/month for 6 months + line rental @ £16.99/month, 18 month contract.

Total cost averaged:

Broadband a la carte: £41/month.

Broadband + phone: £36.99/month for 12 months, £46.99/month for 6 months = £40.32/month over course of contract.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Given they're already "taking almost no advantage of" it now why would you suspect them to change?

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:57 ----------

Indeed, hence I had a laugh with the installers a few years ago when we had a broken phone line at installation, I couldn't care less that it didn't work as I only took the phone line bundle because it was cheaper than broadband alone. At that time there was an additional £50 bill credit for the bundle on top of the introductory line rental discount, making the difference even bigger than your example above.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Use line rental saver you can bring down the line rental for the first year to £13.67/month, making the cost differential between the two even larger. £33.67 for the first 12 months.

VM want people using their phone lines, and they want to be able to stop paying BT Wholesale to maintain bits of their telco network. They also want to stop having to install what are basically FTTC cabinets, but handling just telco.

They can also get in the raw coax more cheaply when they aren't ordering a siamese with copper pairs attached for the drops, and build the networks more cheaply as there's no need to mess with twisted pair alongside the coax / fibre in the case of pure FTTP rollouts.

No brainer to VM going VoIP now that they are planning a substantial build.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

That's exactly my point. They can charge a hell of a lot less for line rental, hell they can bundle the phone for next to nothing, essentially, and still undercut on a lot of broadband packages.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Pricing won't change that much, they will want to see a return on the investment. The network I work on is using ancient PDH kit, so hard to get spares

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I know many people who either are not able to or chose not to. JSA isn't that much for a single person.

Not that I'm defending them.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:04 ----------

There's no chance VM or any other ISP will get rid of a cash cow!

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

There's a lot of hate for jobseekers on this forum. Not everyone on JSA wants to be on JSA, I can assure you that the Job Centre may well be twinned with the 7th circle of hell.

Of course not, but if dropping the price of line rental by half means twice as many customers, making twice as many phone calls, then that's something.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Perhaps I should point out the pessimistic view taht most businesses are keen to put prices up when costs go up and rarely put prices down when costs go down.

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

I quit JSA because I could no longer be bothered with the inane and demeaning mass of hoops they make you jump through every week just to get what you're legally entitled to get already.

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------

I severely doubt there's an inverse linear relationship between price and uptake.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Very true, but most businesses will want to go for what gains the most profit and more customers paying slightly less may well be more profitable.

I'd love to see what the price elasticity of broadband actually is. I suspect price plays a major role, though and Virgin could well hit the sweet spot of offering a genuinely better service at a lower price than the competition can.

They're a shower of ***** :D

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I don't know of a single person without access to either a mobile or home phone. Not 1

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

The voice over cable is progressing very steadily, and slowley. There's no rush VM's geriatric voice network is the company's biggest cash cow.

It brings in billions and cost a few hundred thousand to maintain.

It's also a fact that the vast majority of field faults are on the HFC network.

So VoC will arrive, but there's no stampeding effort to get it here quickly.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

And I know many that have a PAYG phone with no credit on it most of the time.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

I don't think credit matters, as 0800 numbers are going free on mobiles.

Re: Next DOCSIS 3 modem - these okay?
 

Most companies have moved to 03 numbers for Customer Services on the direction of OFCOM, so you would need credit to call them.

But as I said you can call Virgin Media cable customer services for free from a Virgin Media mobile even if you have no credit.